(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

Well, now that Coach K is going that route, he is absolutely killing Cal in recruiting.

(04-18-2018 09:33 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

Well, now that Coach K is going that route, he is absolutely killing Cal in recruiting.

Yes, now that ferret has joined in, he is putting the wood to Cal. Historically though, Cal has slaughtered every other coach when it comes to getting players drafted and paid quickly. Nobody else is even close.

The time of Cal is over. It shows in his face.

He should move on to the NBA before the KY fans don’t remember what he accomplished there.

(04-18-2018 12:50 PM)Eagle4Christ Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 11:43 AM)Tigergary Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 11:36 AM)Grahamapalooza Wrote:  Was not able to tune in. If anyone can update the thread with any interesting information, please do!

He will pick his own school.
Won't live a dream through him but with him.
Wants him to be a kid.
Cal on him since 9th grade.
Photoshop of penny on her table she thought was hilarious.
They didn't move to Memphis because of penny rather her daughter who's a student.
Agreed to be on their show more often going forward.

How wise.

And refreshing too. When the norm has become the parent trying to get something for themselves out of their kids' talents, this is how it should be.

And for once, I agree with Stammers about hoping for the best for the kid, no matter what his decision is.

What?

Ain't no bagmen in Penny's game.

He works on his creds and achievements.

Make no mistake.

Penny doesn't need to go the route that other coaches do.

His guys WILL get PAID later.

NBA and NIKE ties assure as much.

This is why John Calipari is scrambling.

(04-18-2018 10:52 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  The time of Cal is over. It shows in his face.

He should move on to the NBA before the KY fans don’t remember what he accomplished there.

Yep, that window is closing soon. I think he's desperately banking on one last deep run next year to catapult him to the pros. He really, really needs Wiseman to reclassify and get them to the Final Four.

Too bad.

(04-18-2018 10:52 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  The time of Cal is over. It shows in his face.

He should move on to the NBA before the KY fans don’t remember what he accomplished there.

IMO still has plenty of calculation shining out of those beady eyes.

(04-18-2018 03:52 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 03:45 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 02:56 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 01:31 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Exactly. “Putting players in the NBA.” Lol. How in the world does Cal develop those top 10 recruits? Truly amazing.

Careful - you will rile the Cal fans here. They will remind you of the miracles he works. Gets the kids from August to March. In those 8 months, and with restrictions on practice time and obligations to school, he turns them from top 25 guys into NBA draft picks.

Who are they? I've been here a while and don't recall anybody saying that in the last 5+ years.

Are you still sour about Tubby?

Wha? If you think I'm sour about Tubby, you're not keeping up. And if that's the case, no wonder you've missed other things from Cal fans.

As for who they are, I'm not sure. I haven't cared enough to log them. I have an idea who a few are, and I suspect you do to.

There was a debate I got into with someone here about this very topic, though. It was during the Skal era.

Stammers

(04-19-2018 06:17 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 10:52 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  The time of Cal is over. It shows in his face.

He should move on to the NBA before the KY fans don’t remember what he accomplished there.

IMO still has plenty of calculation shining out of those beady eyes.

I see sweat.

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

I had this same argument back in the Skal years with someone here. Cal is not the best at expediting blue chips into the league. Fake news. In fact he is just slightly above average. Just found my research and refreshed it.

Dataset: All consensus top 25's as rated by 247 composite rankings for the HS classes 2012-2016. 5 years gives a good basis. Anything older is stale, and anything more recent does not allow time for enough players to get drafted.

Metric #1: Number of years for a player to get drafted.
Average was 2.19 years.
Cal beats the average at 2.00 years.
Ben Howland ties him at 2.00 years.
Three coaches beat him: Coach K at 1.92 years, Leonard Hamilton at 1.5 years, and Jim Boeheim at 1.00 years.

Metric #2: Draft position change versus HS ranking.
Average was a slide of 21 draft positions.
Cal barely beats the average with a slide of 20 positions.
Five coaches beat him: Kevin Ollie at 19 slots, Coach K at 12 slots, Leonard Hamilton at 10 slots, Boeheim at 1 slot, and Izzo with an actual improvement of +1 slot.

Metric #3: Percentage of players drafted.
Average was 65%.
Cal is slightly above average at 68%.
Four coaches beat him: Coach K at 69%, Howland at 100%, Boeheim at 100%, Hamilton at 100%.

So Cal is above average, but not the best at all. Howland is comparable - but to be fair he has had far fewer players. Boeheim and Hamilton beat Cal in every metric, but again with fewer players.

Coach K beats Cal in every category and with a decently comparable number of players.

I will add...What this analysis doesn't include is the number of players outside the top 25 who work their way into the draft. That is where you would see your true player developers come through. And this would push Cal further down the list, because he rarely has guys outside the top 25 who end up getting drafted.

(04-18-2018 06:31 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:48 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Kameron T. Whalum Verified account @kameronwhalum

James Wiseman gone shock everybody when he reclassifies and comes to Memphis for next year!

Wiseman's mom made it abundantly clear that he is not reclassifying. So I'd be abundantly surprised if he does.

He will reclassify, just wants to be able to play summer ball for EYBL. Cant do so if he reclassifies now as opposed to waiting.

(04-19-2018 02:54 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

I had this same argument back in the Skal years with someone here. Cal is not the best at expediting blue chips into the league. Fake news. In fact he is just slightly above average. Just found my research and refreshed it.

Dataset: All consensus top 25's as rated by 247 composite rankings for the HS classes 2012-2016. 5 years gives a good basis. Anything older is stale, and anything more recent does not allow time for enough players to get drafted.

Metric #1: Number of years for a player to get drafted.
Average was 2.19 years.
Cal beats the average at 2.00 years.
Ben Howland ties him at 2.00 years.
Three coaches beat him: Coach K at 1.92 years, Leonard Hamilton at 1.5 years, and Jim Boeheim at 1.00 years.

Metric #2: Draft position change versus HS ranking.
Average was a slide of 21 draft positions.
Cal barely beats the average with a slide of 20 positions.
Five coaches beat him: Kevin Ollie at 19 slots, Coach K at 12 slots, Leonard Hamilton at 10 slots, Boeheim at 1 slot, and Izzo with an actual improvement of +1 slot.

Metric #3: Percentage of players drafted.
Average was 65%.
Cal is slightly above average at 68%.
Four coaches beat him: Coach K at 69%, Howland at 100%, Boeheim at 100%, Hamilton at 100%.

So Cal is above average, but not the best at all. Howland is comparable - but to be fair he has had far fewer players. Boeheim and Hamilton beat Cal in every metric, but again with fewer players.

Coach K beats Cal in every category and with a decently comparable number of players.

Stammers would reply but he is too busy have mini-strokes that you would dare shoot down the greatness of Cal.

(04-19-2018 02:54 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

I had this same argument back in the Skal years with someone here. Cal is not the best at expediting blue chips into the league. Fake news. In fact he is just slightly above average. Just found my research and refreshed it.

Dataset: All consensus top 25's as rated by 247 composite rankings for the HS classes 2012-2016. 5 years gives a good basis. Anything older is stale, and anything more recent does not allow time for enough players to get drafted.

Metric #1: Number of years for a player to get drafted.
Average was 2.19 years.
Cal beats the average at 2.00 years.
Ben Howland ties him at 2.00 years.
Three coaches beat him: Coach K at 1.92 years, Leonard Hamilton at 1.5 years, and Jim Boeheim at 1.00 years.

Metric #2: Draft position change versus HS ranking.
Average was a slide of 21 draft positions.
Cal barely beats the average with a slide of 20 positions.
Five coaches beat him: Kevin Ollie at 19 slots, Coach K at 12 slots, Leonard Hamilton at 10 slots, Boeheim at 1 slot, and Izzo with an actual improvement of +1 slot.

Metric #3: Percentage of players drafted.
Average was 65%.
Cal is slightly above average at 68%.
Four coaches beat him: Coach K at 69%, Howland at 100%, Boeheim at 100%, Hamilton at 100%.

So Cal is above average, but not the best at all. Howland is comparable - but to be fair he has had far fewer players. Boeheim and Hamilton beat Cal in every metric, but again with fewer players.

Coach K beats Cal in every category and with a decently comparable number of players.

Weird, I can't see that reply to my post when I scan down the thread.

Only in your reply to that reply.

(04-19-2018 02:59 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  I will add...What this analysis doesn't include is the number of players outside the top 25 who work their way into the draft. That is where you would see your true player developers come through. And this would push Cal further down the list, because he rarely has guys outside the top 25 who end up getting drafted.

Cal didnt really develop Cauley-Stein very well...

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2018/4/18...yer-grades

(04-19-2018 03:05 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 02:59 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  I will add...What this analysis doesn't include is the number of players outside the top 25 who work their way into the draft. That is where you would see your true player developers come through. And this would push Cal further down the list, because he rarely has guys outside the top 25 who end up getting drafted.

Cal didnt really develop Cauley-Stein very well...

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2018/4/18...yer-grades

WOW, how many KY players on that roster....The franchise is still in the lottery for more....They would be wise to trade for veteran help....No more young inexperienced guys...

1. WCS Willie Cauley-Stein
2. De'aaron Fox
3. Skal Labissiere

(04-19-2018 02:54 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

I had this same argument back in the Skal years with someone here. Cal is not the best at expediting blue chips into the league. Fake news. In fact he is just slightly above average. Just found my research and refreshed it.

Dataset: All consensus top 25's as rated by 247 composite rankings for the HS classes 2012-2016. 5 years gives a good basis. Anything older is stale, and anything more recent does not allow time for enough players to get drafted.

Metric #1: Number of years for a player to get drafted.
Average was 2.19 years.
Cal beats the average at 2.00 years.
Ben Howland ties him at 2.00 years.
Three coaches beat him: Coach K at 1.92 years, Leonard Hamilton at 1.5 years, and Jim Boeheim at 1.00 years.

Metric #2: Draft position change versus HS ranking.
Average was a slide of 21 draft positions.
Cal barely beats the average with a slide of 20 positions.
Five coaches beat him: Kevin Ollie at 19 slots, Coach K at 12 slots, Leonard Hamilton at 10 slots, Boeheim at 1 slot, and Izzo with an actual improvement of +1 slot.

Metric #3: Percentage of players drafted.
Average was 65%.
Cal is slightly above average at 68%.
Four coaches beat him: Coach K at 69%, Howland at 100%, Boeheim at 100%, Hamilton at 100%.

So Cal is above average, but not the best at all. Howland is comparable - but to be fair he has had far fewer players. Boeheim and Hamilton beat Cal in every metric, but again with fewer players.

Coach K beats Cal in every category and with a decently comparable number of players.

Nice analytics....KY fans would never comprehend this, but Cal has been EXPOSED

His talent lies in getting all those ego/personalities to buy into his system— whatever that is.

There are coaches (loudtubcoughbeecough) that prefer players who are not as high strung.

(04-19-2018 02:54 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 09:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 05:01 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(04-18-2018 04:29 PM)Tigx Wrote:  James Wiseman could not play at all his freshman year of college, or play for Southwest Community College, and still be the #1 pick in 2020.

Enes Kanter never played a second for Kentucky and went #3 to Utah.

Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis could have sacked groceries for a year, instead of playing 30 games at Kentucky, and still would have been the #1 picks.

Mitchell Robinson and Anfernee Simons didn't play a seond of college ball this year, and still will be drafted exactly where they were projected in mock drafts 8 months ago.

Anyone who thinks Coach Cal improves player's draft position in the few months he has these guys on campus doesn't understand what NBA front offices care about. Agree that Cal sells this deception successfully to high school kids, but it's ridiculous for anyone else to believe it.

That's facts.

Look at the Harrison's.

They didn't even get better after coming back for a second season.

I don't think either of them should even be in the NBA.

There are better players in the G-league and overseas.

One and dones would none and dones if it weren't for the stupid one year of college rule.

Are you basing the last 12 years on anything factual besides the Harrisons or do you have anything at all to back up what you are saying? Have you done any research? Do you know how Cal compares to Coach K, Williams, Self and Pitino?

I had this same argument back in the Skal years with someone here. Cal is not the best at expediting blue chips into the league. Fake news. In fact he is just slightly above average. Just found my research and refreshed it.

Dataset: All consensus top 25's as rated by 247 composite rankings for the HS classes 2012-2016. 5 years gives a good basis. Anything older is stale, and anything more recent does not allow time for enough players to get drafted.

Metric #1: Number of years for a player to get drafted.
Average was 2.19 years.
Cal beats the average at 2.00 years.
Ben Howland ties him at 2.00 years.
Three coaches beat him: Coach K at 1.92 years, Leonard Hamilton at 1.5 years, and Jim Boeheim at 1.00 years.

Metric #2: Draft position change versus HS ranking.
Average was a slide of 21 draft positions.
Cal barely beats the average with a slide of 20 positions.
Five coaches beat him: Kevin Ollie at 19 slots, Coach K at 12 slots, Leonard Hamilton at 10 slots, Boeheim at 1 slot, and Izzo with an actual improvement of +1 slot.

Metric #3: Percentage of players drafted.
Average was 65%.
Cal is slightly above average at 68%.
Four coaches beat him: Coach K at 69%, Howland at 100%, Boeheim at 100%, Hamilton at 100%.

So Cal is above average, but not the best at all. Howland is comparable - but to be fair he has had far fewer players. Boeheim and Hamilton beat Cal in every metric, but again with fewer players.

Coach K beats Cal in every category and with a decently comparable number of players.

Great post nice job on the breakdown. I would've thought Cal to be way ahead on all those metrics. Just curious- you snag that info somewhere or do your own research? Either way keep it flowing.