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Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/...1c45085bf2

That's A LOT of $$$.

Should make for some interesting negotiations in the next couple of years.

Can't imagine that certain big-time schools from certain conferences (not in the SEC or B1G) will be too happy about making HALF what someone like Purdue makes. Nothing against the Boilers, just use them as an example.
04-19-2018 08:19 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).
04-19-2018 08:29 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

Can't imagine FSU being happy about making half what Northwestern does.....

Like I said, should be some "interesting" negotiations in the next few years....
04-19-2018 08:40 AM
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AntiG Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:40 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

Can't imagine FSU being happy about making half what Northwestern does.....

Like I said, should be some "interesting" negotiations in the next few years....

if they are, then they should have been smart enough not to sign a GOR to get locked into the conference that they are in and keep their options open for opportunities to join the B1G or SEC.

they decided to sign a contract, they are stuck with it, much like those NBA stars that signed their extensions before the major increase a couple of years ago that led to role players making more than them.
04-19-2018 08:47 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
Maryland has to be laughing their asses off at this.
04-19-2018 08:50 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:40 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

Can't imagine FSU being happy about making half what Northwestern does.....

Like I said, should be some "interesting" negotiations in the next few years....

This is old news, as we've already been made aware of the Michigan letter projecting $50m + payout next year. Nothing new in this article.

Of course it does remain important news, because if those projections do come true, everything the author says about revenue gaps will be correct, which could lead to instability within the P5 from schools in under-paid conferences.

There are a couple of things to note. The SEC could realize some more money in 2024, when its deal with CBS expires. That could bring in some new dollars, though not huge dollars. Also, the Comcast- NYC stuff being talked about here could impact the B1G negatively.

But, that said, what appears most likely is that, thanks to Delany's foresight, the B1G will be making a good $10m more than the SEC. To me, that's the comparison that irks the most. You can't really blame Swofford for the ACC not making as much, because the ACC just isn't as inherently valuable as the B1G. But, the B1G should not be making any more than the SEC does. If it does, that's due to bad SEC leadership.

Call me crazy, but I could see even the SEC be threatened - if the B1G is making $10m + a year more than the SEC, the B1G could be tempting to a Kentucky.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2018 08:54 AM by quo vadis.)
04-19-2018 08:52 AM
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templefootballfan Online
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Post: #7
RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
Why would B-10 want Kentucky
this is ACC promblem
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2018 09:09 AM by templefootballfan.)
04-19-2018 09:06 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:40 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

Can't imagine FSU being happy about making half what Northwestern does.....

Like I said, should be some "interesting" negotiations in the next few years....

This is old news, as we've already been made aware of the Michigan letter projecting $50m + payout next year. Nothing new in this article.

Of course it does remain important news, because if those projections do come true, everything the author says about revenue gaps will be correct, which could lead to instability within the P5 from schools in under-paid conferences.

There are a couple of things to note. The SEC could realize some more money in 2024, when its deal with CBS expires. That could bring in some new dollars, though not huge dollars. Also, the Comcast- NYC stuff being talked about here could impact the B1G negatively.

But, that said, what appears most likely is that, thanks to Delany's foresight, the B1G will be making a good $10m more than the SEC. To me, that's the comparison that irks the most. You can't really blame Swofford for the ACC not making as much, because the ACC just isn't as inherently valuable as the B1G. But, the B1G should not be making any more than the SEC does. If it does, that's due to bad SEC leadership.

Call me crazy, but I could see even the SEC be threatened - if the B1G is making $10m + a year more than the SEC, the B1G could be tempting to a Kentucky.

Meh, I see no mutual interest between either the B1G or UK. Kentucky is not strong enough academically for the B1G and UK will never want to play in a league of teams in the Midwest and Rutgers + Maryland.
04-19-2018 09:15 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
There is a nice zone they got going that future expansion could hurt more than help.
04-19-2018 10:25 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

What's crazy is to look at the Big East (2012 Membership) television revenue per year in 2019:

Rutgers - $51.1 million (B1G)
West Virginia - $36.5 million (Big 12)
Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Louisville - $28 million (ACC)
Notre Dame - $15 million (NBC Football) + ??? (ACC membership) (Ind./ACC)
DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Villanova - 4.17 million per year (Big East)
UConn, Cincinnati, USF, $1.7 million (American)
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2018 10:31 AM by GoldenWarrior11.)
04-19-2018 10:29 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
So Big 10 schools will have 30 solid gold toilets instead of 25. That has to be hard to stomach. So sad for the victims.

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04-19-2018 10:33 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 10:29 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

What's crazy is to look at the Big East (2012 Membership) television revenue per year in 2019:

Rutgers - $51.1 million (B1G)
West Virginia - $36.5 million (Big 12)
Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Louisville - $28 million (ACC)
Notre Dame - $15 million (NBC Football) + ??? (ACC membership) (Ind./ACC)
DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Villanova - 4.17 million per year (Big East)
UConn, Cincinnati, USF, $1.7 million (American)

That's not quite accurate. the numbers for Big Ten, Big 12, and ACC are the conference distro- which is for everything. The Big East and AAC schools number is just tv only.
04-19-2018 10:37 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  So Big 10 schools will have 30 solid gold toilets instead of 25. That has to be hard to stomach. So sad for the victims.

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If you think the money doesn't matter you are truly foolish. Better pay for coaches/assistants in the big sports(and smaller sports)- along with other things.
04-19-2018 10:39 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 10:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  So Big 10 schools will have 30 solid gold toilets instead of 25. That has to be hard to stomach. So sad for the victims.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

If you think the money doesn't matter you are truly foolish. Better pay for coaches/assistants in the big sports(and smaller sports)- along with other things.
Diminishing marginal productivity.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
04-19-2018 10:43 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 10:43 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  So Big 10 schools will have 30 solid gold toilets instead of 25. That has to be hard to stomach. So sad for the victims.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

If you think the money doesn't matter you are truly foolish. Better pay for coaches/assistants in the big sports(and smaller sports)- along with other things.
Diminishing marginal productivity.

Generally speaking, universities have an insatiable desire for more money. Harvard has $37 Billion in its endowment, and yet employs teams of experts whose job is to grow that money.

Theoretically, of course, there will be diminishing returns. Give Harvard $100 Billion and for a while at least, they'd struggle to figure out what to do with it.

For a while.

But in the range of money we are talking about here with regards to conference payouts, there is zero evidence that any school is anywhere near that inflection point, and your school would be the first to jump to high heaven if it suddenly found it it was getting $50m a year from its conference.
04-19-2018 11:23 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 10:43 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  So Big 10 schools will have 30 solid gold toilets instead of 25. That has to be hard to stomach. So sad for the victims.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

If you think the money doesn't matter you are truly foolish. Better pay for coaches/assistants in the big sports(and smaller sports)- along with other things.
Diminishing marginal productivity.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
I'd say look at the impact of the extra money in SEC basketball right now. It's made a HUGE difference.....
04-19-2018 11:24 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:47 AM)AntiG Wrote:  if they are, then they should have been smart enough not to sign a GOR to get locked into the conference that they are in and keep their options open for opportunities to join the B1G or SEC.

they decided to sign a contract, they are stuck with it, much like those NBA stars that signed their extensions before the major increase a couple of years ago that led to role players making more than them.

Well, that's a poor analogy, as the NBA players didn't really have the same choice. Your contract is up when it's up, and if it is up, then you have to sign a new contract for next season if you want to play, even if that means you sign at the end of one TV deal and thus miss the boon of the next one.

Beyond that, contracts can be busted, it's just a question of how much it will cost to do so.
04-19-2018 11:28 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:47 AM)AntiG Wrote:  if they are, then they should have been smart enough not to sign a GOR to get locked into the conference that they are in and keep their options open for opportunities to join the B1G or SEC.

they decided to sign a contract, they are stuck with it, much like those NBA stars that signed their extensions before the major increase a couple of years ago that led to role players making more than them.

Well, that's a poor analogy, as the NBA players didn't really have the same choice. Your contract is up when it's up, and if it is up, then you have to sign a new contract for next season if you want to play, even if that means you sign at the end of one TV deal and thus miss the boon of the next one.

Beyond that, contracts can be busted, it's just a question of how much it will cost to do so.

We will see how these projections hold. The Comcast move to drop the BTN in out of state markets would have to have some affect on the BTN earnings and B10 distributions. Should that move be followed by other major cable companies in the future---these conference networks could become less lucrative--though certainly still nice money makers.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2018 11:33 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-19-2018 11:32 AM
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 08:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:40 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  from the article-
According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million).

Can't imagine FSU being happy about making half what Northwestern does.....

Like I said, should be some "interesting" negotiations in the next few years....

This is old news, as we've already been made aware of the Michigan letter projecting $50m + payout next year. Nothing new in this article.

Of course it does remain important news, because if those projections do come true, everything the author says about revenue gaps will be correct, which could lead to instability within the P5 from schools in under-paid conferences.

There are a couple of things to note. The SEC could realize some more money in 2024, when its deal with CBS expires. That could bring in some new dollars, though not huge dollars. Also, the Comcast- NYC stuff being talked about here could impact the B1G negatively.

But, that said, what appears most likely is that, thanks to Delany's foresight, the B1G will be making a good $10m more than the SEC. To me, that's the comparison that irks the most. You can't really blame Swofford for the ACC not making as much, because the ACC just isn't as inherently valuable as the B1G. But, the B1G should not be making any more than the SEC does. If it does, that's due to bad SEC leadership.

Call me crazy, but I could see even the SEC be threatened - if the B1G is making $10m + a year more than the SEC, the B1G could be tempting to a Kentucky.

The figures for the Big 10 in 2018 are correct. Where Wilner missed the boat, conveniently for his tease line of swamping the SEC in revenue, is in two places.

1. 2017 the SEC didn't receive Sugar Bowl money due to the CFP rotation. Last year's earnings would normally have been around 43.7 million instead of 40.9 million. The SEC contract accrues at a rate of about 2 million a year. Hence we appeared stagnant because of the bowl money. Next year 2018 the SEC will be earning closer to 46 million and that is without factoring in the Altice deal and the spread of our carriage.

So the Big 10 will likely be 5 million ahead of the SEC in TV rights money in 2018. But, the SEC outpaces the Gross Revenue production of the Big 10 by about 15 million per school on average per year. So the B1G will close the "real" gap in total revenue which Wilner knows and fails to mention to around a 10 million dollar deficit to the SEC at the end of 2018.

2. Wilner touts the Big 10's ability to renew a contract in 2023. But Wilner fails to mention that the most undervalued contract still in existence, the contract between CBS Sports and the SEC for the SEC's T1 rights is up in 2024. So it is the SEC that will be stepping up to the plate a year after the new Big 10 numbers are known.

And of course it is estimated that the Big 10 will lose 2% of its expected revenue from Comcast and that is not factored in either.

And finally, the ACC and SEC both enjoy renegotiation clauses in their media contracts with ESPN. If either of us adds schools before 2024 those clauses will kick in and then the rest of the SEC's T2 and T3 may be renegotiated, and if the ACC adds any all of their rights will be renegotiated.

So let's wrap this up. In 2018 the Big 10 will be making around 51 million. The SEC will be making around 46. The SEC will still be out earning Big 10 schools by around 10 million each from all sources of revenue of which TV rights amount to between a 1/4th to 1/5th of the gross total revenue.

And the conditions of the other three P conferences will be an unknown rather than a static quantity. The ACC will have network in 2019 which should overtake the PAC handsomely, and they will have the right to renegotiate existing contracts with additions.

The PAC may choose to sell the ownership of their network for carriage and receive a nice bump for doing so.

Texas with its T3 rights already makes over 50 million in TV revenue and Oklahoma makes around 41 with T3. So there will be no overwhelming pressure on either of the two schools who lead the Big 12 to do anything they don't want to do.

I will be a happy camper when this board wakes up and smells the coffee on media deals. They are a significant part of total revenue, but are only about 20 to 25% of it. Therefore how much TV money a conference earns doesn't carry enough weight to make any substantive difference in that conference's fortunes.

Thanks to the Big 10 we all will be getting raises when we renew or renegotiate. So I'm happy for them in that regard. But the reality is even if the Big 10 made 10 million more in TV revenue they'd still be 5 million behind in total revenue. But instead they will enjoy around a 5 million dollar advantage plus or minus 1 million in TV revenue alone. They have had that advantage and more in the past. This is nothing new.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2018 11:42 AM by JRsec.)
04-19-2018 11:35 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Big Ten's Rights Deal Threatens To Widen Financial Gap Between Even The Biggest Confe
(04-19-2018 11:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:43 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  So Big 10 schools will have 30 solid gold toilets instead of 25. That has to be hard to stomach. So sad for the victims.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

If you think the money doesn't matter you are truly foolish. Better pay for coaches/assistants in the big sports(and smaller sports)- along with other things.
Diminishing marginal productivity.

Generally speaking, universities have an insatiable desire for more money. Harvard has $37 Billion in its endowment, and yet employs teams of experts whose job is to grow that money.

Theoretically, of course, there will be diminishing returns. Give Harvard $100 Billion and for a while at least, they'd struggle to figure out what to do with it.

For a while.

But in the range of money we are talking about here with regards to conference payouts, there is zero evidence that any school is anywhere near that inflection point, and your school would be the first to jump to high heaven if it suddenly found it it was getting $50m a year from its conference.
An extra $250,000 would be important for my school. ULM would be pretty excited about $100,000 I suspect.

But the Big 10 getting a few million more than the SEC in their pile isn't really that much of a real impact other than chest-puffing material and coach pay inflation.

The gap between the bottom of FBS and the top is what is unbalanced. The gap between #1 and #2 isn't really that impactful.

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04-19-2018 11:44 AM
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