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The impact of one concussion
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #21
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-24-2018 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 07:46 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  A concussion from a soccer ball header has completely debilitated a friend's daughter to the point that they are asking for help on social media for rides to the doctors and meals to re-heat at home after hours at physical therapy. It's been very eye-opening.

One soccer ball header. Just one.

The only time I ever saw stars in a sporting event was a header in a soccer game at PE. And back in the same era headers in volleyball were allowed. While I never saw stars heading a volleyball it would be a couple of hours after playing before I felt right. But the worst sports related injury that I never suspected I had until years later when I was reading the symptoms was heat stroke. I'm pretty sure that on a high 90's degree August afternoon that I probably suffered a mild form of heat stroke during preseason football practice. My mouth was like cotton, I quit sweating so I know I was dehydrated, and I had a splitting headache and didn't feel right for days afterward.

We were in full pads, had been practicing for 3 hours and it was back in the day when the coach pumped you full of salt tablets but denied you water because you were "supposed to be able to take it". By the way the practice ended as it always did with 10 50 yard sprints.

That's one thing I do give credit for today. The ignorance over what was healthy conditioning back in the 60's & early 70's was appalling. I'm surprised more of us didn't drop dead or pass out.

It wasn't much improved in the early 80's. Had a track coach who thought us weight guys should run 100 yard sprints on a surprisingly warm and windy day in the spring. Because of the breeze we didn't realize how much we were sweating or that we had stopped. Of the five of us three started complaining about feeling funny. Eventually Jim and I did as well, we were the two best shot and discus guys so we felt entitled to loaf a bit and hadn't run as hard. Jim ended up being state champion so he earned his loafing more than I did. Don't remember leaving practice. Next thing I knew I was at home and Mom was telling me to get off the couch for supper. Head was killing me and I didn't take a leak until the next morning.

Yep. At my age now I've had the usual life ailments. Kidney stones were horrible. But I never thought for a moment while passing one that I would die. But, I felt that way after that August day and I don't think I've ever felt that seriously ill since.
04-24-2018 03:25 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-24-2018 01:43 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Heading soccer balls and getting checked into boards in hockey.... It just seems like there is a vendetta out there against football.... not to say it is without merit that concussions are serious and you get them in football but where are the cries about heading balls in Soccer?, getting checked into the boards or right on the ice in Hockey?, to say nothing of wrestling, MMA, boxing, ect.... I mean, I feel it is just awfully convenient that so many head injury sports get left out of the discussion when football is one of many.

I agree. Probably soccer people trying to tip popularity in their favor. I mean life causes concussions, what're we going to do about that? Wear helmets everywhere? Sure sports increases the risk but sports or not concussions happen.
04-25-2018 10:07 AM
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bearcatfan1211 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-24-2018 01:54 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:43 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Heading soccer balls and getting checked into boards in hockey.... It just seems like there is a vendetta out there against football.... not to say it is without merit that concussions are serious and you get them in football but where are the cries about heading balls in Soccer?, getting checked into the boards or right on the ice in Hockey?, to say nothing of wrestling, MMA, boxing, ect.... I mean, I feel it is just awfully convenient that so many head injury sports get left out of the discussion when football is one of many.

There have been talks within soccer organizations about whether to ban heading below 12 or 13 years old. Not sure how much traction that has gotten, or what organization was looking into (i.e. US Soccer vs FIFA). Again, not sure that anything will happen there. I now see that referees in the professional leagues pause the game when there is a suspected head injury regardless of advantage or if a foul was committed. Hockey has been trying to legislate out head injuries with the boarding calls, and I feel like you don't see as much fighting as in the 90's and early 00's.

But if I was writing an article, and I need clicks and eyeballs reading my article, I am focusing on football, especially in the title of the piece.

Not sure if it's a nationwide thing yet or not, but many states have adopted the "no heading" rule up until U12.
04-25-2018 11:26 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-24-2018 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 07:46 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  A concussion from a soccer ball header has completely debilitated a friend's daughter to the point that they are asking for help on social media for rides to the doctors and meals to re-heat at home after hours at physical therapy. It's been very eye-opening.

One soccer ball header. Just one.

The only time I ever saw stars in a sporting event was a header in a soccer game at PE. And back in the same era headers in volleyball were allowed. While I never saw stars heading a volleyball it would be a couple of hours after playing before I felt right. But the worst sports related injury that I never suspected I had until years later when I was reading the symptoms was heat stroke. I'm pretty sure that on a high 90's degree August afternoon that I probably suffered a mild form of heat stroke during preseason football practice. My mouth was like cotton, I quit sweating so I know I was dehydrated, and I had a splitting headache and didn't feel right for days afterward.

We were in full pads, had been practicing for 3 hours and it was back in the day when the coach pumped you full of salt tablets but denied you water because you were "supposed to be able to take it". By the way the practice ended as it always did with 10 50 yard sprints.

That's one thing I do give credit for today. The ignorance over what was healthy conditioning back in the 60's & early 70's was appalling. I'm surprised more of us didn't drop dead or pass out.

It wasn't much improved in the early 80's. Had a track coach who thought us weight guys should run 100 yard sprints on a surprisingly warm and windy day in the spring. Because of the breeze we didn't realize how much we were sweating or that we had stopped. Of the five of us three started complaining about feeling funny. Eventually Jim and I did as well, we were the two best shot and discus guys so we felt entitled to loaf a bit and hadn't run as hard. Jim ended up being state champion so he earned his loafing more than I did. Don't remember leaving practice. Next thing I knew I was at home and Mom was telling me to get off the couch for supper. Head was killing me and I didn't take a leak until the next morning.

Things have gotten better. I played in the late 90s/early 00s, and none of my coaches ever denied us water. I actually did have a mild heat stroke during football practice once, but wasn't educated enough to recognize it.

I played a ton of sports competitively as a kid: football, basketball, baseball, and volleyball (this doesn't count my middle school's favorite recess activity: kill-the-man-with-the-ball). Oddly enough, my only concussion (undiagnosed) was a skiing accident with my high school youth group. It was the last run of the night anyways, and I was probably embarrassed because I was one of the most experienced skiers in our group, so I just got up and went in with everyone else. I only remember bits and pieces of the rest of the night.
04-25-2018 11:56 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 07:46 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  A concussion from a soccer ball header has completely debilitated a friend's daughter to the point that they are asking for help on social media for rides to the doctors and meals to re-heat at home after hours at physical therapy. It's been very eye-opening.

One soccer ball header. Just one.

The only time I ever saw stars in a sporting event was a header in a soccer game at PE. And back in the same era headers in volleyball were allowed. While I never saw stars heading a volleyball it would be a couple of hours after playing before I felt right. But the worst sports related injury that I never suspected I had until years later when I was reading the symptoms was heat stroke. I'm pretty sure that on a high 90's degree August afternoon that I probably suffered a mild form of heat stroke during preseason football practice. My mouth was like cotton, I quit sweating so I know I was dehydrated, and I had a splitting headache and didn't feel right for days afterward.

We were in full pads, had been practicing for 3 hours and it was back in the day when the coach pumped you full of salt tablets but denied you water because you were "supposed to be able to take it". By the way the practice ended as it always did with 10 50 yard sprints.

That's one thing I do give credit for today. The ignorance over what was healthy conditioning back in the 60's & early 70's was appalling. I'm surprised more of us didn't drop dead or pass out.

It wasn't much improved in the early 80's. Had a track coach who thought us weight guys should run 100 yard sprints on a surprisingly warm and windy day in the spring. Because of the breeze we didn't realize how much we were sweating or that we had stopped. Of the five of us three started complaining about feeling funny. Eventually Jim and I did as well, we were the two best shot and discus guys so we felt entitled to loaf a bit and hadn't run as hard. Jim ended up being state champion so he earned his loafing more than I did. Don't remember leaving practice. Next thing I knew I was at home and Mom was telling me to get off the couch for supper. Head was killing me and I didn't take a leak until the next morning.

Things have gotten better. I played in the late 90s/early 00s, and none of my coaches ever denied us water. I actually did have a mild heat stroke during football practice once, but wasn't educated enough to recognize it.

I played a ton of sports competitively as a kid: football, basketball, baseball, and volleyball (this doesn't count my middle school's favorite recess activity: kill-the-man-with-the-ball). Oddly enough, my only concussion (undiagnosed) was a skiing accident with my high school youth group. It was the last run of the night anyways, and I was probably embarrassed because I was one of the most experienced skiers in our group, so I just got up and went in with everyone else. I only remember bits and pieces of the rest of the night.

Skiing is a much overlooked injury creator. By the way I appreciated the cleaned up title of the PE game you loved. We played that too!
04-25-2018 12:10 PM
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Post: #26
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Things have gotten better. I played in the late 90s/early 00s, and none of my coaches ever denied us water. I actually did have a mild heat stroke during football practice once, but wasn't educated enough to recognize it.

I played a ton of sports competitively as a kid: football, basketball, baseball, and volleyball (this doesn't count my middle school's favorite recess activity: kill-the-man-with-the-ball). Oddly enough, my only concussion (undiagnosed) was a skiing accident with my high school youth group. It was the last run of the night anyways, and I was probably embarrassed because I was one of the most experienced skiers in our group, so I just got up and went in with everyone else. I only remember bits and pieces of the rest of the night.

I'm not sure we do a good job even today teaching people the signs of concussion.

The game known something like uh smear got banned at my school after a separated shoulder on Monday and a broken leg on Wednesday.

Fortunately we were not held to rigid schedules outside of school and actually lived near the kids we went to school with so the ungoverned form of the game lived on.
04-25-2018 12:48 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 10:07 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:43 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Heading soccer balls and getting checked into boards in hockey.... It just seems like there is a vendetta out there against football.... not to say it is without merit that concussions are serious and you get them in football but where are the cries about heading balls in Soccer?, getting checked into the boards or right on the ice in Hockey?, to say nothing of wrestling, MMA, boxing, ect.... I mean, I feel it is just awfully convenient that so many head injury sports get left out of the discussion when football is one of many.

I agree. Probably soccer people trying to tip popularity in their favor. I mean life causes concussions, what're we going to do about that? Wear helmets everywhere? Sure sports increases the risk but sports or not concussions happen.

Yeah, "soccer people" are running this one to the house. Yikes.

Football's got plenty of enemies. And it's not a happy house itself. If we even want to indulge the scapegoating angles, examine the full scene.

At its base level, football has been and continues to be a violent, physical sport. No matter what technological advancements have been made to protect and improve participant health and wellbeing, that violence and physicality has not been properly covered.

No scapegoating needed.

I've noted before this sport does one of two things to your body if you play it enough. Either you kiss your brain goodbye, or you give up your ability to walk. For some, it's both. It's just a brutal sport. Unrivaled in that respect. I remain hopeful that more rules and tech can reign it in a bit...it still takes way too many resources to keep the game manageable and safe regardless, though.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2018 02:47 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
04-25-2018 02:45 PM
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Post: #28
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 02:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:07 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:43 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Heading soccer balls and getting checked into boards in hockey.... It just seems like there is a vendetta out there against football.... not to say it is without merit that concussions are serious and you get them in football but where are the cries about heading balls in Soccer?, getting checked into the boards or right on the ice in Hockey?, to say nothing of wrestling, MMA, boxing, ect.... I mean, I feel it is just awfully convenient that so many head injury sports get left out of the discussion when football is one of many.

I agree. Probably soccer people trying to tip popularity in their favor. I mean life causes concussions, what're we going to do about that? Wear helmets everywhere? Sure sports increases the risk but sports or not concussions happen.

Yeah, "soccer people" are running this one to the house. Yikes.

Football's got plenty of enemies. And it's not a happy house itself. If we even want to indulge the scapegoating angles, examine the full scene.

At its base level, football has been and continues to be a violent, physical sport. No matter what technological advancements have been made to protect and improve participant health and wellbeing, that violence and physicality has not been properly covered.

No scapegoating needed.

I've noted before this sport does one of two things to your body if you play it enough. Either you kiss your brain goodbye, or you give up your ability to walk. For some, it's both. It's just a brutal sport. Unrivaled in that respect. I remain hopeful that more rules and tech can reign it in a bit...it still takes way too many resources to keep the game manageable and safe regardless, though.

What's wrong with violence?

Part of the problem with America today is that in many wealthier or more liberal neighborhoods, violence in all forms is repressed.

Kids who grow up that way have no idea how to deal with a bully, a criminal, a psychopath, or a tyrant. Finally, having never actually seen how someone responds to their own violence, when their repressed anger boils over they will do something silly like assume that rioting against an all-powerful government will change an election outcome.

Or, if they're part of the 1% of the population who is psychopathic themselves, they never learn that there are BIG consequences for anti-social behaviors (until they get in prison - which is a bad outcome for all involved).

Example: one of my neighbors' kids has a problem where he pinches playmates in the privates to get a rise out of them. The parents think he's a perfect little angel, and the teachers always jump in to stop his playmates from reacting, so he gets away with it. Last week, he did it while over at the house of a smaller playmate whose Dad is in the Navy. The smaller playmate beat the crap out of him. I honestly think that beating is the best thing that could have happened to him.
04-25-2018 06:06 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 12:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 07:46 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  A concussion from a soccer ball header has completely debilitated a friend's daughter to the point that they are asking for help on social media for rides to the doctors and meals to re-heat at home after hours at physical therapy. It's been very eye-opening.

One soccer ball header. Just one.

The only time I ever saw stars in a sporting event was a header in a soccer game at PE. And back in the same era headers in volleyball were allowed. While I never saw stars heading a volleyball it would be a couple of hours after playing before I felt right. But the worst sports related injury that I never suspected I had until years later when I was reading the symptoms was heat stroke. I'm pretty sure that on a high 90's degree August afternoon that I probably suffered a mild form of heat stroke during preseason football practice. My mouth was like cotton, I quit sweating so I know I was dehydrated, and I had a splitting headache and didn't feel right for days afterward.

We were in full pads, had been practicing for 3 hours and it was back in the day when the coach pumped you full of salt tablets but denied you water because you were "supposed to be able to take it". By the way the practice ended as it always did with 10 50 yard sprints.

That's one thing I do give credit for today. The ignorance over what was healthy conditioning back in the 60's & early 70's was appalling. I'm surprised more of us didn't drop dead or pass out.

It wasn't much improved in the early 80's. Had a track coach who thought us weight guys should run 100 yard sprints on a surprisingly warm and windy day in the spring. Because of the breeze we didn't realize how much we were sweating or that we had stopped. Of the five of us three started complaining about feeling funny. Eventually Jim and I did as well, we were the two best shot and discus guys so we felt entitled to loaf a bit and hadn't run as hard. Jim ended up being state champion so he earned his loafing more than I did. Don't remember leaving practice. Next thing I knew I was at home and Mom was telling me to get off the couch for supper. Head was killing me and I didn't take a leak until the next morning.

Things have gotten better. I played in the late 90s/early 00s, and none of my coaches ever denied us water. I actually did have a mild heat stroke during football practice once, but wasn't educated enough to recognize it.

I played a ton of sports competitively as a kid: football, basketball, baseball, and volleyball (this doesn't count my middle school's favorite recess activity: kill-the-man-with-the-ball). Oddly enough, my only concussion (undiagnosed) was a skiing accident with my high school youth group. It was the last run of the night anyways, and I was probably embarrassed because I was one of the most experienced skiers in our group, so I just got up and went in with everyone else. I only remember bits and pieces of the rest of the night.

Skiing is a much overlooked injury creator. By the way I appreciated the cleaned up title of the PE game you loved. We played that too!

We never thought to call it anything else! A very call-it-what-it-is name. I never heard the other name for it until I was older.
04-25-2018 06:12 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-21-2018 09:34 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-21-2018 09:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-21-2018 06:29 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Study finds that one concussion can increase the risk of Parkinsons by more than 50%.

Roughly 0.5% of people get Parkinsons and generally accepted that the actual percentage is closer to 0.9%. So if everyone in the US suffered a concussion we could expect 4.4 million cases (using the high end figure).
https://www.popsci.com/parkinsons-diseas...concussion

Let's face it: I've been a football fan for almost 50 years, but it's becoming pretty clear that football is "unsafe at any speed". I didn't play much football at all, only high school, but i do recall getting knocked out once while playing. Got hit going over the middle and next thing i know was being helped up, the guys said i was out cold for about 20 seconds. No apparent after-effects, I recall within a few minutes i felt "fine". But I'm sure I lost brain cells then and may very well pay the price in a few years when I'm truly old.

I wouldn't encourage any loved-one to play football.

I got a concussion from a car wreck. I was pretty lucid initially, didn't have to go the hospital but after I went back to work once the cop was done, I had to leave work because I didn't feel well and was absolutely convinced it was Thursday even though it was Friday. I was a bit messed up on Saturday (the real Saturday) and woke up clear as bell on Sunday.

I got a mild concussion after getting decleated by a Drunk Driver last Summer. I sort of have very similar memories. Felt completely fine after the accident. Ended up going to the hospital for stitches and got checked out anyway. That's how it got diagnosed.

The weird thing was, the next 3 days after the accident, I was completely symptom free. Work had insisted I take a few days off after the accident, I was due to run an overnight Summer Camp a week or so later, and they wanted me symptom free by then. I guess spending a few days being lazy prevented the symptoms from hitting. The next day I tried to attend a baseball game, and by the 6th inning, I was scrambling out the door, battling dizzy spells driving home. The symptoms appeared after that anytime I was active for about a 48 hour period, and then a week after the accident, I went back to work and was symptom free.

A Doctor friend told me later that attending a baseball game in the heat, at night, with loud sounds, and floodlights was probably the stupidest thing you could ever do with a concussion. Second only to attempting to drive home afterwards.
04-26-2018 02:35 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 06:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 02:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:07 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:43 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Heading soccer balls and getting checked into boards in hockey.... It just seems like there is a vendetta out there against football.... not to say it is without merit that concussions are serious and you get them in football but where are the cries about heading balls in Soccer?, getting checked into the boards or right on the ice in Hockey?, to say nothing of wrestling, MMA, boxing, ect.... I mean, I feel it is just awfully convenient that so many head injury sports get left out of the discussion when football is one of many.

I agree. Probably soccer people trying to tip popularity in their favor. I mean life causes concussions, what're we going to do about that? Wear helmets everywhere? Sure sports increases the risk but sports or not concussions happen.

Yeah, "soccer people" are running this one to the house. Yikes.

Football's got plenty of enemies. And it's not a happy house itself. If we even want to indulge the scapegoating angles, examine the full scene.

At its base level, football has been and continues to be a violent, physical sport. No matter what technological advancements have been made to protect and improve participant health and wellbeing, that violence and physicality has not been properly covered.

No scapegoating needed.

I've noted before this sport does one of two things to your body if you play it enough. Either you kiss your brain goodbye, or you give up your ability to walk. For some, it's both. It's just a brutal sport. Unrivaled in that respect. I remain hopeful that more rules and tech can reign it in a bit...it still takes way too many resources to keep the game manageable and safe regardless, though.

What's wrong with violence?

Part of the problem with America today is that in many wealthier or more liberal neighborhoods, violence in all forms is repressed.

Kids who grow up that way have no idea how to deal with a bully, a criminal, a psychopath, or a tyrant. Finally, having never actually seen how someone responds to their own violence, when their repressed anger boils over they will do something silly like assume that rioting against an all-powerful government will change an election outcome.

Or, if they're part of the 1% of the population who is psychopathic themselves, they never learn that there are BIG consequences for anti-social behaviors (until they get in prison - which is a bad outcome for all involved).

Example: one of my neighbors' kids has a problem where he pinches playmates in the privates to get a rise out of them. The parents think he's a perfect little angel, and the teachers always jump in to stop his playmates from reacting, so he gets away with it. Last week, he did it while over at the house of a smaller playmate whose Dad is in the Navy. The smaller playmate beat the crap out of him. I honestly think that beating is the best thing that could have happened to him.

I've frequently told the young kids that the biggest reason guns and knives get pulled today is because those pulling them are totally afraid of physical contact. My generation settled things with a good fist fight. You learned several things from the experience and usually learned them by the time you were 10.

1. Hitting and getting hit hurts.
2. When you respond to a bully with force they usually leave you alone, although it's not 100% it is still much more effective and satisfying than not dealing with them.
3. Action emboldens others and sometimes the kid you fight becomes a dear friend and when they do it is always based out of mutual respect which is a great life lesson in itself. If you want friends you respect them and never break the trust by taking advantage of them or discounting their feelings and beliefs. You don't have to agree but you do have to respect them.
4. If you establish yourself by the time you are 10 to 12 you probably won't have to fight again.
5. There are worse forms of humiliation than getting your butt kicked.

The modern approaches that I find terribly destructive are:
1. When a kid stands up to a bully at school both the aggressor and defender get punished. There's something inherently unjust for getting punished for standing up for yourself.
2. We don't have anger management today. We have anger suppression. Anger is a natural emotional response to injustice, or threat. Managing anger comes with assessing situations and responding in a way that permits you to seek what is right and to suppress threats while learning to do so hopefully without escalating a situation to violence.
3. The inability of kids today to express their anger appropriately, or worse out of fear of being retaliated against by authorities being forced to suffer injustice only breeds antipathy for society. I believe there is a link here to the gun violence and the mass shootings. Most of these kids are loners, many have suffered some form of bullying and things swell within them until they boil over in a homicidal rage because they have nobody to talk to about emotions they are afraid to admit that they have, and they lash out at those they think empower whatever they believe has been unfairly hurting them. I also think that the ample supply of assault video games out there gives them a visual image of how to express their rage and dehumanizes their targets.

We need to understand all of our emotions if we are to express them appropriately. All of them are natural and should never be treated like they aren't.

A defensive marshal arts training by a trusted instructor can do a great deal to increase self reliance, confidence, and to prepare kids for navigating the real world. They usually do a great job in teaching meditation and self realization and in controlling anger for appropriate response.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2018 03:24 AM by JRsec.)
04-26-2018 03:17 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 06:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  What's wrong with violence?

Part of the problem with America today is that in many wealthier or more liberal neighborhoods, violence in all forms is repressed.

I'm sorry you interpreted what I said that way.

The violent nature of the sport is how the game can play out if optimized. Take the infamous Clowney hit; probably the perfect defensive play where a guy is stopped literally in his spot (so, no extra yardage), knocked hard enough he would probably have to leave the game (neutralizing an opponent), and forcing a turnover (giving the offense an immediate opportunity to score points).

To me, that is how football should be played on its base rules. However, how can one not also identify how violent that is at its most objective level, and understand how no other sport is constructed to allow for that style of play? It's not about good or bad...it's about its nature.

I like the sport. However, I don't align with those who think we're a soft society if we impose added rules and regulations making the game safer for those who play it. Making it safer, while maybe turning off some people with some other issues going on within themselves, likely keeps the sport around longer, much in the same way changes in the game early on helped keep it playable. Hey, we're at that point again...and it thrived for those changes...why can't it again?
04-26-2018 03:17 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-26-2018 03:17 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 06:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  What's wrong with violence?

Part of the problem with America today is that in many wealthier or more liberal neighborhoods, violence in all forms is repressed.

I'm sorry you interpreted what I said that way.

The violent nature of the sport is how the game can play out if optimized. Take the infamous Clowney hit; probably the perfect defensive play where a guy is stopped literally in his spot (so, no extra yardage), knocked hard enough he would probably have to leave the game (neutralizing an opponent), and forcing a turnover (giving the offense an immediate opportunity to score points).

To me, that is how football should be played on its base rules. However, how can one not also identify how violent that is at its most objective level, and understand how no other sport is constructed to allow for that style of play? It's not about good or bad...it's about its nature.

I like the sport. However, I don't align with those who think we're a soft society if we impose added rules and regulations making the game safer for those who play it. Making it safer, while maybe turning off some people with some other issues going on within themselves, likely keeps the sport around longer, much in the same way changes in the game early on helped keep it playable. Hey, we're at that point again...and it thrived for those changes...why can't it again?

That's a pretty presumptuous statement and quite frankly it can be interpreted as either being extremely judgmental or even arrogant depending on the interpretation of the reader. I think for most of those who don't like the endless rule changes it's more of a matter that they played the game, realized it for what it was, accepted the risks, and enjoyed playing it.

I'm just curious but did you play in high school or college? Or is your opinion on this matter informed in some other way?

I wouldn't disagree that we need some rule changes, but oddly some of the rules that need to be changed are replacement rules, especially around the kicking game.

I have no idea what might happen with the equipment technology, but nothing is going to stop the sudden impact and change of momentum that leads to brain trauma. Better helmets can only help so much. The body simply isn't designed for rapid deceleration. But in spite of all of the CTE issues the game actually does more damage to the joints, particularly knees, and as an old man who played and suffered knee injury how well I know.

But as to society? It is both more violent today than when I was a kid, and much softer today than when I was a kid, and I think those too phenomenons are interlinked. I would say that we are unhealthily softer in the middle and upper class, and inconceivably more violent among the poor. But maybe that's because I had 20 years of work in non profits to back up my opinion. Does that mean that poor people are all violent, far from it. But the violent among them are more violent to all than they were in the 50's or 60's and it's incrementally gotten that way with the drug trade, and other crime endeavors. We had a 14 year old kid who was a stellar human being with a basketball future gunned down on his mother's front porch because he refused to join a gang so they killed him for dissing them.

Sorry but that just doesn't happen in many middle class neighborhoods, but poor kids face crud every day of their lives and most folks who might post here have very limited exposure to that. I think our society owes it to all citizens to clean up these kinds of threats from all neighborhoods. There's something inherently wrong with thinking that confining it to certain neighborhoods is somehow a good thing.

So on the one hand we have bubble children whose parents control and plan every aspect of their lives, probably ignoring the rights of the kids to have a hand in determining the course of their own lives. And the social insulation ill prepares them to encounter those not like them. But perhaps that has more to do with "issues going on within themselves" like the narcissism of the parents maybe who might be trying to make their children a projection of themselves.

And on the other hand we have parents who are looking for anyway to get their kids out of poverty and praying every day that the nature of where they live doesn't kill their children. Now there are internal issues a plenty going on there too. But then that is true of the lower middle class, the middle class, and the upper middle class and the wealthy. In my experience most people are working on "issues going on within themselves" and the interesting part of your statement is that those who recognize their issues and are working on them aren't the problem.

So give me a guy or gal who has it all figured out and knows exactly what they are doing and I'll show you those who will have the biggest problems regardless of their socioeconomic class. Charm, charisma, intelligence and drive can all be characteristics of a sociopath too.

So your little glib remark was out of place in what otherwise was a logical position and probably says more about you than those who don't like seeing the rules of the game monkeyed around with yet again. Baseball is not a violent sport and it is the one I loved the most when I played. But you would find oodles of baseball fans who still hate the designated hitter rule. It screwed up statistics in a game where statistics are a religion. When people have played, and enjoyed playing any game, change irks them and it has nothing to do with "issues going on within themselves".

As for how I felt about the softness issue. It is a concern when so many kids who have been sheltered are thrust together with those who are literally fighting to survive and the worst of the latter terrorizes the former. In the South in public schools where true integration is more of an issue the coddled kids are going to get exposed. They need to be able to exhibit enough confidence in themselves so as not to be an inviting target. And while I know this generation really hasn't experienced a war that threatens us, the world every year has more and more people and fewer resources to go around. The chances are that when our technology has been equaled by enemies we are going to have to fight a war where our lives are dependent upon some survival instincts. I hope not because I have 5 grandchildren. But if it happens and our kids aren't prepared then the blame is ours.

I loved football, but I agree it has to change to survive. But when football has been removed, soccer and hockey will be next. Then women playing volleyball and basketball will all one day were something that looks like a boxers head protector or a bicycle helmet. And protecting them is a good thing. But making them softer in their response to an ever increasing hostile world is not.
04-26-2018 05:15 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The impact of one concussion
I've probably had 4-5 concussion in my life, all from football. That will probably impact my life at some point when I'm 50 or 70 or 90. Hopefully I'm 90. But knowing what I know now I'd do it all again and I wouldn't trade the memories and life lessons for anything.

For thousands of kids every year football is the opportunity to go to college, often for free, and in rare cases even for the chance at money and fame. It's not perfect but it's a terrific game that has been a blessing more than a curse.
04-30-2018 09:00 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #35
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-26-2018 05:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  That's a pretty presumptuous statement and quite frankly it can be interpreted as either being extremely judgmental or even arrogant depending on the interpretation of the reader. I think for most of those who don't like the endless rule changes it's more of a matter that they played the game, realized it for what it was, accepted the risks, and enjoyed playing it.

I'll own arrogance if it means I don't think highly of the anti-civil responses to some of these rule changes, sure. It's not like I like or always agree with all of the rule-changes, and I know it is a highly complex matter. But player safety is a good thing, and it adds life and vitality to any sport. Especially if you have kids...make it safer, and maybe it regains its footing, because you take more risk out of it.

But, again, it's complex. I don't see anything wrong with the way the infamous Clowney hit went. Don't love the spear, but the results were optimal. Don't see anything wrong with the Brady rule, either, since the heart of the ruling is cutting down on late/cheap hits, regardless of momentum and intent.

I used to play when I was in my early teens. I didn't grow fast enough, though, unlike my dad, my uncles, and cousins who all played. I also wasn't allowed to play in the pee-wee/junior league; that order came from my dad because he thought the coaches had no grasp of the fundamentals. He didn't often talk much about his playing days until I got older...found out later he was really good, and recruited, but not for a full scholarship to a current CAA/CAAF school, and, coming from a family with nothing, meant he was getting nothing from them, so, couldn't attend. As I now understand why he was silent yet stern on this, he wasn't wrong. I got beat the heck up out there; I was too small, and I started too late. However, those who did start early, it wasn't uncommon to see them out of school for days, or later see them in crutches, casts, or splints at the age of ten or eleven. Or, heck, the number of guys who "walked on" in high school who hardly ever played, but came out of it still in crutches. Usually because those guys (and I was one when I played) became targets to those with more skill, and coaches who didn't want guys like us on the team to begin with who let them, at times, within reason, "orient us" to this game.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2018 02:16 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-02-2018 10:36 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The impact of one concussion
(05-02-2018 10:36 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 05:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  That's a pretty presumptuous statement and quite frankly it can be interpreted as either being extremely judgmental or even arrogant depending on the interpretation of the reader. I think for most of those who don't like the endless rule changes it's more of a matter that they played the game, realized it for what it was, accepted the risks, and enjoyed playing it.

I'll own arrogance if it means I don't think highly of the anti-civility responses to some of these rule changes, sure. It's not like I like or always agree with all of the rule-changes, and I know it is a highly complex matter. But player safety is a good thing, and it adds life and vitality to any sport. Especially if you have kids...make it safer, and maybe it regains its footing, because you take more risk out of it.

But, again, it's complex. I don't see anything wrong with the way the infamous Clowney hit went. Don't love the spear, but the results were optimal. Don't see anything wrong with the Brady rule, either, since the heart of the ruling is cutting down on late/cheap hits, regardless of momentum and intent.

I used to play when I was in my early teens. I didn't grow fast enough, though, unlike my dad, my uncles, and cousins who all played. I also wasn't allowed to play in the pee-wee/junior league; that order came from my dad because he thought the coaches had no grasp of the fundamentals. He didn't often talk much about his playing days until I got older...found out later he was really good, and recruited, but not for a full scholarship to a current CAA/CAAF school, and, coming from a family with nothing, meant he was getting nothing from them, so, couldn't attend. As I now understand why he was silent yet stern on this, he wasn't wrong. I got beat the heck up out there; I was too small, and I started too late. However, those who did start early, it wasn't uncommon to see them out of school for days, or later see them in crutches, casts, or splints at the age of ten or eleven. Or, heck, the number of guys who "walked on" in high school who hardly ever played, but came out of it still in crutches. Usually because those guys (and I was one when I played) became targets to those with more skill, and coaches who didn't want guys like us on the team to begin with who let them, at times, within reason, "orient us" to this game.

I agree with your father's assessment of pee wee football. It was mostly dads who coached and no they didn't teach fundamentals. In pee wee ball the fastest kid scored and tallest and heaviest kids ruled the line. High school was hit or miss on coaching and fundamentals, but has really devolved today at many schools into being a larger version of pee wee ball. My dad and my grandfather played too. Both played in the era before the face mask. Neither suffered serious injury. I don't know what the ultimate answer to the injuries will be. But I'm not in favor of taking away people's choices either. At what point in the name of safety do we loose our freedom? Legally speaking most parents are apprised of the risks and their permission has to be signed for the kids to play. While I don't like injuries either, I do think the decision is between the child and the parents. The rules of the game are the responsibility of the governing agency that is providing the games. I may not like some of the rules but in a free society if the agency responsible alters rules for the sake of safety that's fine. If the child and parent consent that is their right. What I'm not in favor of is government making those decisions for us.

I don't snow ski. It's a personal choice born out of the desire to avoid serious injury. I did sled. I would hate to see either banned and both have risk of serious injury or death. Football is no different. I chose not to pursue water skiing because my style resembled that of a fishing lure at high speed in the water rather than that of the elegance of a skier. If you know the risks, the result is the matter of your own choices.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2018 12:26 PM by JRsec.)
05-02-2018 12:23 PM
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Post: #37
RE: The impact of one concussion
Does it make a difference how old you are when you get the concussion, in terms of long-term effects? Is it safer in high school than in junior high school?
05-02-2018 12:51 PM
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panite Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-25-2018 12:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 07:46 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  A concussion from a soccer ball header has completely debilitated a friend's daughter to the point that they are asking for help on social media for rides to the doctors and meals to re-heat at home after hours at physical therapy. It's been very eye-opening.

One soccer ball header. Just one.

The only time I ever saw stars in a sporting event was a header in a soccer game at PE. And back in the same era headers in volleyball were allowed. While I never saw stars heading a volleyball it would be a couple of hours after playing before I felt right. But the worst sports related injury that I never suspected I had until years later when I was reading the symptoms was heat stroke. I'm pretty sure that on a high 90's degree August afternoon that I probably suffered a mild form of heat stroke during preseason football practice. My mouth was like cotton, I quit sweating so I know I was dehydrated, and I had a splitting headache and didn't feel right for days afterward.

We were in full pads, had been practicing for 3 hours and it was back in the day when the coach pumped you full of salt tablets but denied you water because you were "supposed to be able to take it". By the way the practice ended as it always did with 10 50 yard sprints.

That's one thing I do give credit for today. The ignorance over what was healthy conditioning back in the 60's & early 70's was appalling. I'm surprised more of us didn't drop dead or pass out.

It wasn't much improved in the early 80's. Had a track coach who thought us weight guys should run 100 yard sprints on a surprisingly warm and windy day in the spring. Because of the breeze we didn't realize how much we were sweating or that we had stopped. Of the five of us three started complaining about feeling funny. Eventually Jim and I did as well, we were the two best shot and discus guys so we felt entitled to loaf a bit and hadn't run as hard. Jim ended up being state champion so he earned his loafing more than I did. Don't remember leaving practice. Next thing I knew I was at home and Mom was telling me to get off the couch for supper. Head was killing me and I didn't take a leak until the next morning.

Things have gotten better. I played in the late 90s/early 00s, and none of my coaches ever denied us water. I actually did have a mild heat stroke during football practice once, but wasn't educated enough to recognize it.

I played a ton of sports competitively as a kid: football, basketball, baseball, and volleyball (this doesn't count my middle school's favorite recess activity: kill-the-man-with-the-ball). Oddly enough, my only concussion (undiagnosed) was a skiing accident with my high school youth group. It was the last run of the night anyways, and I was probably embarrassed because I was one of the most experienced skiers in our group, so I just got up and went in with everyone else. I only remember bits and pieces of the rest of the night.

Skiing is a much overlooked injury creator. By the way I appreciated the cleaned up title of the PE game you loved. We played that too!

You are 100% right on the Ski Industry being over looked. As a member of the National Ski Patrol I see a number head,, back, potential internal, and upper and lower extremity injury's weekly during the ski season. Can't tell you how many times I have assisted a skier / boarder after having his or her bell rung (even those with ski helmets on) while spending a day on the slopes hauling them in. 04-jawdrop
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2018 09:47 AM by panite.)
05-07-2018 09:45 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #39
RE: The impact of one concussion
(04-24-2018 01:43 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Heading soccer balls and getting checked into boards in hockey.... It just seems like there is a vendetta out there against football.... not to say it is without merit that concussions are serious and you get them in football but where are the cries about heading balls in Soccer?, getting checked into the boards or right on the ice in Hockey?, to say nothing of wrestling, MMA, boxing, ect.... I mean, I feel it is just awfully convenient that so many head injury sports get left out of the discussion when football is one of many.

Your right about sports like Soccer which has its share of head injuries too. I my self was knocked out twice while starting as the goalie for 2 years in college. I also coached youth soccer and baseball for over 20 years while my sons were going through those programs, and witnessed head injuries and concussions from head collisions in soccer while 2 players collided when both went in for a head ball. I have also seen vicious hits to the head while coaching baseball and have been nailed in the head myself playing and coaching hardball leaving me seeing stars for a while. I was once hit in the head while playing little league baseball after our pitcher hit the opposition's player knocking him out. Neither of us were hit intentionally. I was also almost knocked out while pitching batting practice as a coach for the players during baseball season. Even at a young age you would be surprised at the speed that those balls come at you off metal bats. Head injuries are a serious matter for all athletes at all levels of sports. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2018 10:18 AM by panite.)
05-07-2018 10:17 AM
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