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While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
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TexanMark Online
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Post: #21
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(04-23-2018 05:19 PM)The Grassy Nole Wrote:  
(04-23-2018 04:38 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  No, you are wrong. I like the increase in revenue and glad we are not stuck in the Big 12 or ACC. But Louisville would probably consider the SEC, if asked.

Um, I hate to break this to you...

LOL...Think he meant AAC
04-24-2018 08:15 AM
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nole Offline
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RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(04-24-2018 08:02 AM)orangefan Wrote:  The Form 990 that will next be released will be for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

For the 2015-16 fiscal year, the ACC listed the following revenue streams as being the largest:

Television: $226,094,604
Bowl Games: $85,879,650
NCAA Basketball Fund: $20,604,326
NCAA Grants-In-Aid Fund: $12,628,570
ACC Basketball Tournament: $6,155,505
All Other: $21,333,904 (around $6 million of this would have been from the NCAA Sports Sponsorship Fund)

This puts TV revenue at approximately $16 million per school. This appears to reflect the boost for adding Syracuse and Pitt, but not anything for the GOR, the most recent contract extension, or payments in lieu of the launch of an ACCN, and possibly nothing for the addition of Notre Dame. It will be interesting to see whether any of these items are reflected in the payments for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

During 2015-16, the Orange Bowl was a CFP semifinal, which led to a drop in bowl revenues from $94 million in 2014-15. I would expect the 2016-17 total to flirt with $100 million with the Orange Bowl back as the ACC's Contract Bowl and with Louisville's participation in the Citrus Bowl.

Looking forward, aside from the launch of the ACCN, the best opportunity for revenue growth may be from improving our bowl lineup. I believe the non-CFP bowl tie ins are open to renegotiation for seasons beginning in 2020-21. Longer term, we need to get the payout for the Orange more in line with what the other P5 conferences are getting paid. I would note that the Orange has outperformed the Sugar for its games in non semifinal years.

Great info. Thanks.
04-24-2018 09:38 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #23
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(04-24-2018 08:02 AM)orangefan Wrote:  The Form 990 that will next be released will be for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

For the 2015-16 fiscal year, the ACC listed the following revenue streams as being the largest:

Television: $226,094,604
Bowl Games: $85,879,650
NCAA Basketball Fund: $20,604,326
NCAA Grants-In-Aid Fund: $12,628,570
ACC Basketball Tournament: $6,155,505
All Other: $21,333,904 (around $6 million of this would have been from the NCAA Sports Sponsorship Fund)

This puts TV revenue at approximately $16 million per school. This appears to reflect the boost for adding Syracuse and Pitt, but not anything for the GOR, the most recent contract extension, or payments in lieu of the launch of an ACCN, and possibly nothing for the addition of Notre Dame. It will be interesting to see whether any of these items are reflected in the payments for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

During 2015-16, the Orange Bowl was a CFP semifinal, which led to a drop in bowl revenues from $94 million in 2014-15. I would expect the 2016-17 total to flirt with $100 million with the Orange Bowl back as the ACC's Contract Bowl and with Louisville's participation in the Citrus Bowl.

Looking forward, aside from the launch of the ACCN, the best opportunity for revenue growth may be from improving our bowl lineup. I believe the non-CFP bowl tie ins are open to renegotiation for seasons beginning in 2020-21. Longer term, we need to get the payout for the Orange more in line with what the other P5 conferences are getting paid. I would note that the Orange has outperformed the Sugar for its games in non semifinal years.

So the Orange Bowl has the 2nd best TV ratings (Rose Bowl) but the 3rd highest payouts... I'm sensing a pattern here.

BTW, does anyone know where the money generated by ACC CG ticket sales goes? Last year's game had an average ticket price of $238 and 74,372 people attended...
74,372 X $238 = $17.7 Million... I don't see anything like that above.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2018 12:30 PM by Hokie Mark.)
04-24-2018 12:25 PM
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H.U.S.T.L.E. Offline
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Post: #24
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(04-23-2018 02:16 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  And don't give me "it's just cyclical". It's not cyclical...ACC football has never not been the worst major football conference (even when there were 6-7 of them) over a year over year period. The last 3-4 years are basically unprecedented, ever, in this conference over a multi-year sequence. Where the will is there, it can happen, and it is happening. But many of us saw the danger of absolutely piss poor ACC football 10-15 years ago. You know, back when we tried to add Syracuse (sorry guys) and did add BC, instead of VT.

Was Swofford and Co trying to purposely undercut football? I'm not going to say that, but if the ACC showed any indication that better football mattered to them, they didn't have the first clue how to go about it, that's for sure. At the bottom line, Swofford oversaw an absolute abomination of a football conference for a long time, until the grim reaper was almost at the ACC's door. And surprise! Turns out we actually can play a little football.

There was a lot to unpack in your post, so I'm just going to respond to the quoted section.

I think it's fair to say that ACC leadership has been mostly reactionary to changes in the revenue stream, but I don't think it's completely accurate to say they waited too long in most cases. I think the biggest reason for this, is that until 10-15 years ago, the TV money for football wasn't the overwhelming source of revenue for a conference.

So for a long time, the prominent basketball schools weren't facing a massive financial gap. But since then, as football money exploded and everyone could read the tea leaves very clearly, I think the ACC as a whole has improved its football product.

I think there are legitimate reasons that the ACC will always be a little bit behind the SEC & B1G that others have expounded upon, but I think the ACC has tackled the issue about as well as it could given some of the inherent challenges the ACC faces compared to those other conferences.
04-24-2018 03:22 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #25
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(04-24-2018 08:02 AM)orangefan Wrote:  The Form 990 that will next be released will be for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

For the 2015-16 fiscal year, the ACC listed the following revenue streams as being the largest:

Television: $226,094,604
Bowl Games: $85,879,650
NCAA Basketball Fund: $20,604,326
NCAA Grants-In-Aid Fund: $12,628,570
ACC Basketball Tournament: $6,155,505
All Other: $21,333,904 (around $6 million of this would have been from the NCAA Sports Sponsorship Fund)

This puts TV revenue at approximately $16 million per school. This appears to reflect the boost for adding Syracuse and Pitt, but not anything for the GOR, the most recent contract extension, or payments in lieu of the launch of an ACCN, and possibly nothing for the addition of Notre Dame. It will be interesting to see whether any of these items are reflected in the payments for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

During 2015-16, the Orange Bowl was a CFP semifinal, which led to a drop in bowl revenues from $94 million in 2014-15. I would expect the 2016-17 total to flirt with $100 million with the Orange Bowl back as the ACC's Contract Bowl and with Louisville's participation in the Citrus Bowl.

Looking forward, aside from the launch of the ACCN, the best opportunity for revenue growth may be from improving our bowl lineup. I believe the non-CFP bowl tie ins are open to renegotiation for seasons beginning in 2020-21. Longer term, we need to get the payout for the Orange more in line with what the other P5 conferences are getting paid. I would note that the Orange has outperformed the Sugar for its games in non semifinal years.

Hail orangefan,

I assume the FB championship $$$ is in the all other as well?

Anyway, the Big 12's Form 990 for 2015-16, assuming I am reading it correctly, breaks it down like this:

Television: $155,699,388
Bowl Games: $114,539,700
NCAA Revenue: $34,891,544
Ticket Sales: $6,169,620 (assume this was their bb tourney)

So, I wonder how the TV money works in the ACC. Assuming the 80/20 split between football and basketball, then 20% of the $226,094,604 would be $45,218,920. That figure divided by 15 would be $3,104,595 for each institution in terms of bb TV share so this gives us an idea of how much ND received from the TV pool of money.

Subtract that ND share and it looks like the other 14 members shared $222,999,000 which would be $15,928,500 per institution for TV money which actually puts the ACC basically even with (slightly ahead of) the Big 12 when it comes to this one item, regardless of conference size.

The real gap appears to be in Bowls (in terms of total $$$ as well as dividing between only 10 members) not mention getting approximately the same in terms of NCAA revenue and BB Tourney revenue but again having to divide that between 15 members instead of just 10.

Again, assuming I am reading it correctly.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2018 10:44 PM by OrangeDude.)
04-24-2018 05:45 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #26
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(04-24-2018 12:25 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 08:02 AM)orangefan Wrote:  The Form 990 that will next be released will be for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

For the 2015-16 fiscal year, the ACC listed the following revenue streams as being the largest:

Television: $226,094,604
Bowl Games: $85,879,650
NCAA Basketball Fund: $20,604,326
NCAA Grants-In-Aid Fund: $12,628,570
ACC Basketball Tournament: $6,155,505
All Other: $21,333,904 (around $6 million of this would have been from the NCAA Sports Sponsorship Fund)

This puts TV revenue at approximately $16 million per school. This appears to reflect the boost for adding Syracuse and Pitt, but not anything for the GOR, the most recent contract extension, or payments in lieu of the launch of an ACCN, and possibly nothing for the addition of Notre Dame. It will be interesting to see whether any of these items are reflected in the payments for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

During 2015-16, the Orange Bowl was a CFP semifinal, which led to a drop in bowl revenues from $94 million in 2014-15. I would expect the 2016-17 total to flirt with $100 million with the Orange Bowl back as the ACC's Contract Bowl and with Louisville's participation in the Citrus Bowl.

Looking forward, aside from the launch of the ACCN, the best opportunity for revenue growth may be from improving our bowl lineup. I believe the non-CFP bowl tie ins are open to renegotiation for seasons beginning in 2020-21. Longer term, we need to get the payout for the Orange more in line with what the other P5 conferences are getting paid. I would note that the Orange has outperformed the Sugar for its games in non semifinal years.

So the Orange Bowl has the 2nd best TV ratings (Rose Bowl) but the 3rd highest payouts... I'm sensing a pattern here.

BTW, does anyone know where the money generated by ACC CG ticket sales goes? Last year's game had an average ticket price of $238 and 74,372 people attended...
74,372 X $238 = $17.7 Million... I don't see anything like that above.

I assume that the ACCCG football money is included in the All Other income, but I believe the 2015 ACCCG wouldn't have generated the figures that the 2017 ACCCG did.

As for Orange Bowl vs Sugar Bowl in non-Semi-Final CFP years here is the relatively small data set so far:

2014-15 Orange - Georgia Tech/Mississippi State - 8.94M viewers
2016-17 Orange - Florida State/Michigan - 11.461M viewers
2017-18 Orange - Miami/Wisconsin - 11.727M viewers

2015-16 Sugar - Ole Miss/Oklahoma State - 8.940M viewers
2016-17 Sugar - Auburn/Oklahoma - 9.515M viewers

Cheers,
Neil
04-24-2018 06:54 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #27
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...


TRICKLING IN
05-04-2018 01:27 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(05-04-2018 01:27 PM)green Wrote:  

TRICKLING IN
The PAC's revenue report is interesting. It's been generally perceived that their revenues are in last place among the P5.
05-04-2018 03:12 PM
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green Offline
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RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(05-04-2018 03:12 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  The PAC's revenue report is interesting. It's been generally perceived that their revenues are in last place among the P5.

Quote:So … What does it all mean?

The key number isn’t the $509 million in revenue but the $371 million that was distributed to the campuses — the conference’s primary mission, after all, is to serve the schools.

That $371 million breaks down to $30.9 million per school.

Because the conference owns the Tier Three rights, that income is included in the reported distribution figure.

The Pac-12’s average payout is typically a gross number, in that it does not include the costs associated with buying the Tier Three rights from previous stakeholders (IMG, Learfield, etc).

While the conference handles the transactions, the schools are on the hook for the buyback costs. That amount, withheld from the paychecks sent to the campuses, is not included in the distribution figure the conference reports in its 990s.

If we subtract the amount sent to the Pac-12 campuses from the revenue figure, we’re left with $138 million in expenses.

That’s a whopper of a total compared to other Power Fives but includes the enormous costs of operating the Pac-12 Networks, which show 850 live events annually across seven feeds.

Exactly how much the Pac12Nets generated in FY17 should be available in the 990s, and campus sources believe approximately $2.7 million of the total distribution figure (per school) is from the networks.

Pac12Nets expenses, long a source of curiosity on the campuses, have never been disclosed.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/03/p...estimates/

DEVIL IN THE DETAILS
05-04-2018 03:30 PM
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nole Offline
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Post: #30
RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(05-04-2018 03:12 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-04-2018 01:27 PM)green Wrote:  

TRICKLING IN
The PAC's revenue report is interesting. It's been generally perceived that their revenues are in last place among the P5.

By whom outside the ACC?

ACC has been dead last for a long while. Regardless, it is irrelevant. It is the P2 and everyone else is trying to avoid looking like the Big East revenue wise of today's market.
05-04-2018 07:26 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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RE: While we await the 2017 ACC tax return...
(05-04-2018 07:26 PM)nole Wrote:  
(05-04-2018 03:12 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-04-2018 01:27 PM)green Wrote:  

TRICKLING IN
The PAC's revenue report is interesting. It's been generally perceived that their revenues are in last place among the P5.

By whom outside the ACC?

ACC has been dead last for a long while. Regardless, it is irrelevant. It is the P2 and everyone else is trying to avoid looking like the Big East revenue wise of today's market.

Well, it's actually more like:

The Greater 2






The Lesser 3

































Everyone else.


Cheers,
Neil
05-05-2018 09:42 AM
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