(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

(05-15-2018 05:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 04:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  You are correct johnbragg. If UTRGV is stupid enough to start football, it will be a tremendous failure. Poor community + scarce football talent is not a good recipe for FCS/FBS football.

I disagree. UTRGV would like to be a Southland or Sunbelt school. Football could get them there. The WAC is dying a slow death and there are no other non-football conferences in the region. It is football or bust and if they can get enough Southland presidents to pledge their support for a membership bid if they start the sport they are set.

That would defeat the cause if the WAC invites Tarleton State as well? There have been reasons why UTRGV have been rejected like they are the Chicago State of Texas. They need to build their image up first before getting an invite. CSU-Bakersfield had to do it before they got invited to the Big West.

The Southland is still better than the WAC with Tarleton St. UTPA definitely had image issues especially after their embarrassing withdraw from the Sunbelt but UTRGV seems to be doing a good job of distancing themselves from that past and forging a new identity.

(05-15-2018 07:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

Troy almost always had football and was a normal school not too long ago, and a DII school when DII started, FCS for ten years, and FBS since 2001. An FBS conference invite was not required when they moved to FBS, but the Sun Belt had to take them just for teams, even though the Belt held noses in arrogance. Troy was a top Belt for those early years. Troy had a graduate that owned the video chain Movie Gallery, a smaller competitor to Blockbuster, and they both went under. The Movie Gallery owner gave substantially to a football stadium expansion and the program. Jacksonville St and North Alabama were former DII schools that were rivals and both want to up themselves to Troy’s level. Lived in Alabama for fifteen years and met two Troy grads and fans.

The Dakotas have so much more resources than Troy, but yet the posters like you here knock an FBS move as nonsense, but Troy was a simple boy dirt Alabama school that made it FBS. Twenty years ago, Troy would be knocked ten times worse on this board than Liberty is now for moving up.

USM has always been FBS or IA ever since the upper level teams were split off. Don’t know the history but they are in the center of some remarkable recruiting grounds for lesser than SEC level, which has been cut down to size with USA, Troy, UAB, ULM, La-La etc now infringing on it. Hattiesburg is a remarkably clean well-kept town for Mississippi, but that not saying much.

(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-24-2018 11:40 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  http://riograndeguardian.com/anderson-ut...-released/

Mack Brown heads the committee working on the feasibility study. They’re considering both FCS and FBS and have looked at UTSA as a potential model.

Credit to Vaqueronation for posting this on the WAC board.

So back to the OP. Has the report been released yet? It was supposed to be in about a week some 3 weeks ago. It looks like this study group started 2 years ago, as committee members were announced in April 2016.

TIME FOR THE RECKLESS SPECULATION!!

The actual facts and numbers in the feasibility study are TERRIBAD. Football, or more generally any expensive athletic endeavor in the Rio Grande VAlley, is not a smart economic move to make.

But that is NOT the answer that the AD and Mack Brown and the other movers-and-shakers that commissioned the report want to hear. So things have been delayed while they attempt to torture the numbers into something other than a complete financial bloodbath.

RECKLESS SPECULATION FTW!

EDIT: And some superficial googling returns the rather relevant fact that the Rio Grande Valley is, to use a technical term, "hella poor." Which is, um, not ideal for a program based on selling suites and things to big-dollar donors and selling seats and beers and nachos and t-shirts to folks with lots of disposable income.
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/01/19/...n-suburbs/

Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

Hattiesburg extends over two counties. One with a median household income of $51,154 (85% white) the other county with a median household income of $36,726 (61% white) Edinburg is in a county with a median household income $34,146 (90.9% Latino or Hispanic), Brownsville is in a county with a median household income of $33,179 (88% Latino or Hispanic)

According to Nielsen, 12% of the NBA viewership is Latino or Hispanic, 9% of the MLB audience and 9% of the NFL audience. Only 4% of the college football audience is Hispanic or Latino.

So you have a poor area that demographically isn't inclined to watch college football.

Just has success written all over it.

(05-15-2018 10:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 07:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

Troy almost always had football and was a normal school not too long ago, and a DII school when DII started, FCS for ten years, and FBS since 2001. An FBS conference invite was not required when they moved to FBS, but the Sun Belt had to take them just for teams, even though the Belt held noses in arrogance. Troy was a top Belt for those early years. Troy had a graduate that owned the video chain Movie Gallery, a smaller competitor to Blockbuster, and they both went under. The Movie Gallery owner gave substantially to a football stadium expansion and the program. Jacksonville St and North Alabama were former DII schools that were rivals and both want to up themselves to Troy’s level. Lived in Alabama for fifteen years and met two Troy grads and fans.

The Dakotas have so much more resources than Troy, but yet the posters like you here knock an FBS move as nonsense, but Troy was a simple boy dirt Alabama school that made it FBS. Twenty years ago, Troy would be knocked ten times worse on this board than Liberty is now for moving up.

USM has always been FBS or IA ever since the upper level teams were split off. Don’t know the history but they are in the center of some remarkable recruiting grounds for lesser than SEC level, which has been cut down to size with USA, Troy, UAB, ULM, La-La etc now infringing on it. Hattiesburg is a remarkably clean well-kept town for Mississippi, but that not saying much.

Basically Troy won 2 D2 National Titles and then moved up to FCS. In 8 seasons, they made the playoffs 7 times, won the SLC 3 and made the FCS semifinals twice. They had success and had built a winning culture and it has continued into FBS. UTRGV will not likely have any of that. Besides the 30 year headstart that Troy had, Troy had many advantages that UTRGV will not. We’ve already been over the area, recruiting, etc.

I don’t have a problem with Liberty moving up, because they have money and aren’t starting from scratch. I don’t have issues with any Dakota schools moving up. I only have problems with far-flung, idiotic, dream conferences that have no basis in reality.

You claim that all these things are going to happen when there’s absolutely no evidence from any real sources. Same with DavidSt. He just throws names out and thinks that D1 sports is something all colleges want. It’s dumb

(05-15-2018 10:54 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 07:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

Troy almost always had football and was a normal school not too long ago, and a DII school when DII started, FCS for ten years, and FBS since 2001. An FBS conference invite was not required when they moved to FBS, but the Sun Belt had to take them just for teams, even though the Belt held noses in arrogance. Troy was a top Belt for those early years. Troy had a graduate that owned the video chain Movie Gallery, a smaller competitor to Blockbuster, and they both went under. The Movie Gallery owner gave substantially to a football stadium expansion and the program. Jacksonville St and North Alabama were former DII schools that were rivals and both want to up themselves to Troy’s level. Lived in Alabama for fifteen years and met two Troy grads and fans.

The Dakotas have so much more resources than Troy, but yet the posters like you here knock an FBS move as nonsense, but Troy was a simple boy dirt Alabama school that made it FBS. Twenty years ago, Troy would be knocked ten times worse on this board than Liberty is now for moving up.

USM has always been FBS or IA ever since the upper level teams were split off. Don’t know the history but they are in the center of some remarkable recruiting grounds for lesser than SEC level, which has been cut down to size with USA, Troy, UAB, ULM, La-La etc now infringing on it. Hattiesburg is a remarkably clean well-kept town for Mississippi, but that not saying much.

Basically Troy won 2 D2 National Titles and then moved up to FCS. In 8 seasons, they made the playoffs 7 times, won the SLC 3 and made the FCS semifinals twice. They had success and had built a winning culture and it has continued into FBS. UTRGV will not likely have any of that. Besides the 30 year headstart that Troy had, Troy had many advantages that UTRGV will not. We’ve already been over the area, recruiting, etc.

I don’t have a problem with Liberty moving up, because they have money and aren’t starting from scratch. I don’t have issues with any Dakota schools moving up. I only have problems with far-flung, idiotic, dream conferences that have no basis in reality.

You claim that all these things are going to happen when there’s absolutely no evidence from any real sources. Same with DavidSt. He just throws names out and thinks that D1 sports is something all colleges want. It’s dumb

Seems like you should be speaking out against the WAC, MWC, CUSA, and Americans geography then if you are consistent in logic. The Great Northern and new WAC are all smaller and have more ties and mutual interest with good travel partners.. For consistency, you should be in favor of Seattle moving to a DIII league or NAIA one so it doesn’t have ridiculous far flung travel. Being in a league with the closest travel partner of UVU is totally ridiculous, but you defend that over joining a rump Big Sky league with Portland St, EWU and CWU.

(05-16-2018 04:29 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:54 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 07:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

Troy almost always had football and was a normal school not too long ago, and a DII school when DII started, FCS for ten years, and FBS since 2001. An FBS conference invite was not required when they moved to FBS, but the Sun Belt had to take them just for teams, even though the Belt held noses in arrogance. Troy was a top Belt for those early years. Troy had a graduate that owned the video chain Movie Gallery, a smaller competitor to Blockbuster, and they both went under. The Movie Gallery owner gave substantially to a football stadium expansion and the program. Jacksonville St and North Alabama were former DII schools that were rivals and both want to up themselves to Troy’s level. Lived in Alabama for fifteen years and met two Troy grads and fans.

The Dakotas have so much more resources than Troy, but yet the posters like you here knock an FBS move as nonsense, but Troy was a simple boy dirt Alabama school that made it FBS. Twenty years ago, Troy would be knocked ten times worse on this board than Liberty is now for moving up.

USM has always been FBS or IA ever since the upper level teams were split off. Don’t know the history but they are in the center of some remarkable recruiting grounds for lesser than SEC level, which has been cut down to size with USA, Troy, UAB, ULM, La-La etc now infringing on it. Hattiesburg is a remarkably clean well-kept town for Mississippi, but that not saying much.

Basically Troy won 2 D2 National Titles and then moved up to FCS. In 8 seasons, they made the playoffs 7 times, won the SLC 3 and made the FCS semifinals twice. They had success and had built a winning culture and it has continued into FBS. UTRGV will not likely have any of that. Besides the 30 year headstart that Troy had, Troy had many advantages that UTRGV will not. We’ve already been over the area, recruiting, etc.

I don’t have a problem with Liberty moving up, because they have money and aren’t starting from scratch. I don’t have issues with any Dakota schools moving up. I only have problems with far-flung, idiotic, dream conferences that have no basis in reality.

You claim that all these things are going to happen when there’s absolutely no evidence from any real sources. Same with DavidSt. He just throws names out and thinks that D1 sports is something all colleges want. It’s dumb

Seems like you should be speaking out against the WAC, MWC, CUSA, and Americans geography then if you are consistent in logic. The Great Northern and new WAC are all smaller and have more ties and mutual interest with good travel partners.. For consistency, you should be in favor of Seattle moving to a DIII league or NAIA one so it doesn’t have ridiculous far flung travel. Being in a league with the closest travel partner of UVU is totally ridiculous, but you defend that over joining a rump Big Sky league with Portland St, EWU and CWU.

NoDak actually has a fair point here for once.

The Great Northern isn't a bad idea geographically or institutionally. In a white room thought exercise, it makes a ton of sense. And, if the WAC could pull off putting together an FCS league, (UTRGV, Tarleton State, Grand Canyon has $$ to burn, U of San Diego, Arkansas Tech Wonderboys, yeah I can't come up with 6 desperate candidates) that would stabilize the league.

But there are massive obstacles that stop things like this from happening--NCAA rules, institutional self-interest, and The Powers That Be defending their turf.
NoDak ignores all of that because he had a religious revelation a few years ago.

(05-16-2018 04:29 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:54 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 07:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Guess the Houston Dynamo need to fold their USL team then. How could they be so stupid as to build a new stadium a couple miles from campus. Southern Miss doesn’t have the richest residents around Hattiesburg, but it’s done well at times. Troy isn’t exactly a Beverly Hills, but it has Dothan to draw from. Most of rural Alabama and Mississippi don’t have much, but they highly value football.

Anything with UT colors will sell wel there. The didn’t chose Mack Brown to lead that committee to p*ss into the wind.

How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

Troy almost always had football and was a normal school not too long ago, and a DII school when DII started, FCS for ten years, and FBS since 2001. An FBS conference invite was not required when they moved to FBS, but the Sun Belt had to take them just for teams, even though the Belt held noses in arrogance. Troy was a top Belt for those early years. Troy had a graduate that owned the video chain Movie Gallery, a smaller competitor to Blockbuster, and they both went under. The Movie Gallery owner gave substantially to a football stadium expansion and the program. Jacksonville St and North Alabama were former DII schools that were rivals and both want to up themselves to Troy’s level. Lived in Alabama for fifteen years and met two Troy grads and fans.

The Dakotas have so much more resources than Troy, but yet the posters like you here knock an FBS move as nonsense, but Troy was a simple boy dirt Alabama school that made it FBS. Twenty years ago, Troy would be knocked ten times worse on this board than Liberty is now for moving up.

USM has always been FBS or IA ever since the upper level teams were split off. Don’t know the history but they are in the center of some remarkable recruiting grounds for lesser than SEC level, which has been cut down to size with USA, Troy, UAB, ULM, La-La etc now infringing on it. Hattiesburg is a remarkably clean well-kept town for Mississippi, but that not saying much.

Basically Troy won 2 D2 National Titles and then moved up to FCS. In 8 seasons, they made the playoffs 7 times, won the SLC 3 and made the FCS semifinals twice. They had success and had built a winning culture and it has continued into FBS. UTRGV will not likely have any of that. Besides the 30 year headstart that Troy had, Troy had many advantages that UTRGV will not. We’ve already been over the area, recruiting, etc.

I don’t have a problem with Liberty moving up, because they have money and aren’t starting from scratch. I don’t have issues with any Dakota schools moving up. I only have problems with far-flung, idiotic, dream conferences that have no basis in reality.

You claim that all these things are going to happen when there’s absolutely no evidence from any real sources. Same with DavidSt. He just throws names out and thinks that D1 sports is something all colleges want. It’s dumb

Seems like you should be speaking out against the WAC, MWC, CUSA, and Americans geography then if you are consistent in logic. The Great Northern and new WAC are all smaller and have more ties and mutual interest with good travel partners.. For consistency, you should be in favor of Seattle moving to a DIII league or NAIA one so it doesn’t have ridiculous far flung travel. Being in a league with the closest travel partner of UVU is totally ridiculous, but you defend that over joining a rump Big Sky league with Portland St, EWU and CWU.

Where did I say I was against SU joining up with Portland St or EWU? Central Washington??? Show me one article that says they're considering D1. When I said "far-flung", I wasn't referring to just travel.

Seattle joined the WAC when Utah St, Denver, and Idaho were there. Chicago St, UMKC, and UTPA were added later. What's Seattle supposed to do, withdrawal from the conference and try to make it as an Independent? Right now, they don't have any options, especially from your fake conferences.

(05-16-2018 07:59 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-16-2018 04:29 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:54 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 10:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 07:44 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  How long have USM and Troy had their football teams? Did they start one from scratch recently like UTRGV might?

Troy almost always had football and was a normal school not too long ago, and a DII school when DII started, FCS for ten years, and FBS since 2001. An FBS conference invite was not required when they moved to FBS, but the Sun Belt had to take them just for teams, even though the Belt held noses in arrogance. Troy was a top Belt for those early years. Troy had a graduate that owned the video chain Movie Gallery, a smaller competitor to Blockbuster, and they both went under. The Movie Gallery owner gave substantially to a football stadium expansion and the program. Jacksonville St and North Alabama were former DII schools that were rivals and both want to up themselves to Troy’s level. Lived in Alabama for fifteen years and met two Troy grads and fans.

The Dakotas have so much more resources than Troy, but yet the posters like you here knock an FBS move as nonsense, but Troy was a simple boy dirt Alabama school that made it FBS. Twenty years ago, Troy would be knocked ten times worse on this board than Liberty is now for moving up.

USM has always been FBS or IA ever since the upper level teams were split off. Don’t know the history but they are in the center of some remarkable recruiting grounds for lesser than SEC level, which has been cut down to size with USA, Troy, UAB, ULM, La-La etc now infringing on it. Hattiesburg is a remarkably clean well-kept town for Mississippi, but that not saying much.

Basically Troy won 2 D2 National Titles and then moved up to FCS. In 8 seasons, they made the playoffs 7 times, won the SLC 3 and made the FCS semifinals twice. They had success and had built a winning culture and it has continued into FBS. UTRGV will not likely have any of that. Besides the 30 year headstart that Troy had, Troy had many advantages that UTRGV will not. We’ve already been over the area, recruiting, etc.

I don’t have a problem with Liberty moving up, because they have money and aren’t starting from scratch. I don’t have issues with any Dakota schools moving up. I only have problems with far-flung, idiotic, dream conferences that have no basis in reality.

You claim that all these things are going to happen when there’s absolutely no evidence from any real sources. Same with DavidSt. He just throws names out and thinks that D1 sports is something all colleges want. It’s dumb

Seems like you should be speaking out against the WAC, MWC, CUSA, and Americans geography then if you are consistent in logic. The Great Northern and new WAC are all smaller and have more ties and mutual interest with good travel partners.. For consistency, you should be in favor of Seattle moving to a DIII league or NAIA one so it doesn’t have ridiculous far flung travel. Being in a league with the closest travel partner of UVU is totally ridiculous, but you defend that over joining a rump Big Sky league with Portland St, EWU and CWU.

Where did I say I was against SU joining up with Portland St or EWU? Central Washington??? Show me one article that says they're considering D1. When I said "far-flung", I wasn't referring to just travel.

Seattle joined the WAC when Utah St, Denver, and Idaho were there. Chicago St, UMKC, and UTPA were added later. What's Seattle supposed to do, withdrawal from the conference and try to make it as an Independent? Right now, they don't have any options, especially from your fake conferences.

It was a hiding meaning in a news article with the leaders of the school for Central Washington. They want to grow to 20,000 students, and built up their athletics facilities which gave a hint that they want to go D1. They are spending money there like mad to get that done.

(05-16-2018 09:11 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  It was a hiding meaning in a news article with the leaders of the school for Central Washington. They want to grow to 20,000 students, and built up their athletics facilities which gave a hint that they want to go D1. They are spending money there like mad to get that done.

Wanting to go Division I does not mean, though, that anyone in Division I wants you.

It's also good thinking to consider alternative explanations. It may be that Central Washington has Division I dreams, hoping against hope that they'll be the next Gonzaga or Boise State rather than the next UMKC or Idaho. On the other hand, it's possible that the stuff they have now [/quote]is just 50 years old and falling apart.

Article on Central Washington University athletic facilities

Quote:Francois said Tomlinson hasn’t seen any renovations since it was built in 1959. Due to the state of the track, the Great Northwest Athletic Conference barred Tomlinson from holding conference championship meets more than 10 years ago.

Article also mentions that they hope to be able to host state high school championship events.

I want to be President of the US. Someone please add me as a presidential candidate for 2020!!!!

CWU is a joke just like these 2 jags.

(05-16-2018 01:29 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-16-2018 09:11 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  It was a hiding meaning in a news article with the leaders of the school for Central Washington. They want to grow to 20,000 students, and built up their athletics facilities which gave a hint that they want to go D1. They are spending money there like mad to get that done.

Wanting to go Division I does not mean, though, that anyone in Division I wants you.

It's also good thinking to consider alternative explanations. It may be that Central Washington has Division I dreams, hoping against hope that they'll be the next Gonzaga or Boise State rather than the next UMKC or Idaho. On the other hand, it's possible that the stuff they have now

is just 50 years old and falling apart.

Article on Central Washington University athletic facilities

Quote:Francois said Tomlinson hasn’t seen any renovations since it was built in 1959. Due to the state of the track, the Great Northwest Athletic Conference barred Tomlinson from holding conference championship meets more than 10 years ago.

Article also mentions that they hope to be able to host state high school championship events.
[/quote]



The reason they would want to go to D1 is because of the lack of football schools in their area. They could have been a much better addition to the Big Sky Conference then Southern Utah.

Evergreen St has had to lay off or lost a bunch of professors, including Weinstein who was a leftist himself but was too far to the right for the students/social justice warriors, as Evergreen St is hemorrhaging student and tuition. CWU aspires to become the second choice school after UW.