(05-18-2018 08:09 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 11:21 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  We also counted the 8 way tie for second (or whatever it was) in the 1994 SWC behind the probationary but possible best team in college football Texas Ags as a football conference title. That one might be the worst.

Soccer had a legit conference title with an undefeated conference record. Lay off the negativity required to prove a trivial argument.

It’s disappointing to me that so many seem to feel that cheating (in this example, the Aggies) justifies the ends, particularly if everyone else is doing it.

As a Rice alum and Rice Owl fan, I’m proud of both of those titles, and I’m also proud that we were the ONLY SWC team that wasn’t cheating. That is a title we can claim without ties. It is sometimes harder to win that way...

I’m also disappointed that so many want to run Rice Athletics exactly like a business. Sure, I get that we need to improve revenue streams. That’s cool. But this is an enterprise where the bottom line should be the benefit to the student athlete. Everything else is auxiliary to some extent or another. That’s how I see it anyway. You’re not wrong if you see it differently.
I do think that Rice’s willingness to stand for honor and integrity has in the past served us well and frankly made us, well, somewhat unique.

I do hope that can continue on to the next phase.

Also worth noting: Last time I was at DKR the Horns have a banner for that conference championship as well...

(05-18-2018 08:09 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 11:21 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  We also counted the 8 way tie for second (or whatever it was) in the 1994 SWC behind the probationary but possible best team in college football Texas Ags as a football conference title. That one might be the worst.
Soccer had a legit conference title with an undefeated conference record. Lay off the negativity required to prove a trivial argument.

It’s disappointing to me that so many seem to feel that cheating (in this example, the Aggies) justifies the ends, particularly if everyone else is doing it.
As a Rice alum and Rice Owl fan, I’m proud of both of those titles, and I’m also proud that we were the ONLY SWC team that wasn’t cheating. That is a title we can claim without ties. It is sometimes harder to win that way...
I’m also disappointed that so many want to run Rice Athletics exactly like a business. Sure, I get that we need to improve revenue streams. That’s cool. But this is an enterprise where the bottom line should be the benefit to the student athlete. Everything else is auxiliary to some extent or another. That’s how I see it anyway. You’re not wrong if you see it differently.
I do think that Rice’s willingness to stand for honor and integrity has in the past served us well and frankly made us, well, somewhat unique.
I do hope that can continue on to the next phase.

I have been disappointed that for at least 40 years Rice failed to apply sound business practices in the management of its athletic programs. I don't think an athletic program can or should be run exactly like a business. I don't see any inherent conflict between honor and integrity on the one hand and sound business practices on the other. I'm not sure you are suggesting that they are in conflict, but if you are then we strongly disagree on that.

A primary reason (not the only reason, but a primary one) why revenue streams need to be improved now is that for those 40 years we systematically did almost everything we could to destroy them.

You can't run an athletic program exactly like a business. But that doesn't mean that you ignore sound business practices.

This thread was about criticism of JK. That is not what I personally have done, nor have many others. The job of managing coaches and contracts is, as many have stated, the job of the AD. I am absolutely aware that the Rice AD doesn't have the autonomy or flexibility he'd like, but that is not the subject... nor is it within my knowledge other than some very strong indicators. I am confident it happens. I can't point out the events or limitations so I stop with JK.

The articulated goal was top 25 in every sport. We're not close. We're not top 50 in every sport and not top 100 in the really important ones, one of which doesn't have many more than 100 to compare to. Unless someone sees top 50 out of (especially) the big 2 on the fairly short horizon, I don't see how JK can possibly avoid criticism. In a thread where we're demanding a top 20 or 50 program from our best (of the big ones) sport, to hold the administration to a vastly lower bar... and then to give them an 'A' or anything remotely resembling that is just beyond my ability to articulate.

Winning at Rice is a tough job, especially in 'money' sports... and I don't mean p5 money, I mean lucrative pro contracts for participants where the ability to take easy classes and devote 50 hours a week to baseball >>>> (at least in their minds) the requirement to take harder classes and only get to devote say 30.

We need to do something 'different' than everyone else (in CUSA anyway and most other places) because of that.

The 'sound business practices' mostly have to do with HR and personnel issues IMO

(05-21-2018 03:57 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The 'sound business practices' mostly have to do with HR and personnel issues IMO

The ones to which I am referring have more to do with marketing and finances.

(05-21-2018 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 03:57 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The 'sound business practices' mostly have to do with HR and personnel issues IMO

The ones to which I am referring have more to do with marketing and finances.

Well, we haven't been following sound business practices there, I agree.... but sound business practices tell you to market to the masses to solve your financial issues and attempt to get a small percentage of the big pie.... That's the product we've been putting on the field... doing what everyone else does and somehow expecting to do better than average at it...

We should strive to get a large share of a much smaller and less competitive pie

(05-21-2018 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 03:57 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The 'sound business practices' mostly have to do with HR and personnel issues IMO

The ones to which I am referring have more to do with marketing and finances.

Marketing-what is this marketing thing? Finance?

Do you mean that effort is required? Given that this year will be the worst results year since 1988-89 in a conference with members who we would have laughed at in that 1988 (or scheduled for a non-conference win, of course in the 80's, we lost to teams like these), clearly the overall picture is distressing to say the least. However, JK seems to made some effort and progress towards marketing and financing. The former until JK has been shrunk more and more over time since the early 00's (building/updating facilities, while needed, and having 40+ security guards does not automatically bring fans). As to the latter, I will never forget talking to the former Owl Club head 15-20 years ago about making an effort to get members to company match their donations, show that to the Allen Center folks and try to work an angle to generate funds for Athletics. The reaction was along the lines of "please, don't be involved with something that you clearly don't understand".

What is most amazing to me is that noone seems to get that to make money you need to spend money. Athletics is not the French department.