(05-15-2018 02:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:12 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:52 PM)davidw Wrote:  How do you put a succession plan in place if Wayne doesn't want to retire ? Even at 82 yrs old, he said he still wants to coach, wherever it may be. If an attempt to put such a plan in place was made 3 years ago, I think he'd have been just as miffed and we'd have had this exact same discussion thread at the time.

Just curious. Don't read into this that I'm anti-Wayne. I think he's a helluva coach and a helluva guy.

You be an AD that has good relationships with your head coaches. You are correct, in that if you dictate to a coach and if a coach dictates to you...this becomes inevitable. With good relationships, you figure it out.

Sometimes the personalities on both sides preclude what we found ourselves in --- a change was overdue to occur; an AD that didnt press the issue; and a HC that hammers home that he needs just *one* more year ---- most likely ad infinitum on the 'just one more' thing.

Sorry this was a train wreck. But each party in it brought it to where it was. Equal blame abounds on every side for this one.

Not disparaging OG for his on-field accomplishments in putting Rice Baseball on the map and he deserves[ed] all the accolades in the world for that; but it is stunningly obvious that this ride threw a rod in the engine about 5 years back, and the current model is belching black smoke and sporting two flat tires, one wheel riding on the rim, and the hood just ripped free of the car and is sailing off in back of it.

I cannot fathom how a head coach can look at the dented jalopy from last year that found just enough oomph from the engine to wind its way to the NCAA tourney and the absolute demolition-derby class this year and say that another year is warranted and should be in the works.

Yay! Rice Baseball is in the 'rider's seat' for an 7 or 8 slot at the CUSA tourney -- break out the good stuff and put it on ice for a celebration for that..... /sarcasm off

This year is like watching Joe Namath's last year in the NFL with the Rams......

you have no freaking idea what has been going on behind the scenes since joey has been hired....to fire...you have no idea...it will be exposed in due time....it is "stunningly obvious" to those in the know how this program has been undermined for at least the last four years....but if it serves your narrative, you go girl...

(05-15-2018 10:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 05:35 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 02:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:12 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:52 PM)davidw Wrote:  How do you put a succession plan in place if Wayne doesn't want to retire ? Even at 82 yrs old, he said he still wants to coach, wherever it may be. If an attempt to put such a plan in place was made 3 years ago, I think he'd have been just as miffed and we'd have had this exact same discussion thread at the time.

Just curious. Don't read into this that I'm anti-Wayne. I think he's a helluva coach and a helluva guy.

You be an AD that has good relationships with your head coaches. You are correct, in that if you dictate to a coach and if a coach dictates to you...this becomes inevitable. With good relationships, you figure it out.

Sometimes the personalities on both sides preclude what we found ourselves in --- a change was overdue to occur; an AD that didnt press the issue; and a HC that hammers home that he needs just *one* more year ---- most likely ad infinitum on the 'just one more' thing.

Sorry this was a train wreck. But each party in it brought it to where it was. Equal blame abounds on every side for this one.

Not disparaging OG for his on-field accomplishments in putting Rice Baseball on the map and he deserves[ed] all the accolades in the world for that; but it is stunningly obvious that this ride threw a rod in the engine about 5 years back, and the current model is belching black smoke and sporting two flat tires, one wheel riding on the rim, and the hood just ripped free of the car and is sailing off in back of it.

I cannot fathom how a head coach can look at the dented jalopy from last year that found just enough oomph from the engine to wind its way to the NCAA tourney and the absolute demolition-derby class this year and say that another year is warranted and should be in the works.

Yay! Rice Baseball is in the 'rider's seat' for an 7 or 8 slot at the CUSA tourney -- break out the good stuff and put it on ice for a celebration for that..... /sarcasm off

This year is like watching Joe Namath's last year in the NFL with the Rams......

True. And sometimes Athletic Directors just don’t have good relationships with their head coaches. Or with anyone. At least what’s been seen publicly, the second seems a bit more plausible than a scenario where a legendary coach decided to simply destroy his own program or that Wayne Graham somehow thinks .500 baseball is all of a sudden acceptable. I’m sure the insiders know better though. Perhaps someone can share all the great relationships Joe has with anyone at our university and some inside scoop on how his relationship with the baseball coach is an anolomoly.

I never said OG thinks .500 is acceptable. My guess he is thinking he is only one or two 'clicks on the scope' away from a Super Regional, and is scratching his head wondering why this team that is belching smoke isnt doing better, because, dadgumit it should!!! Where's my socket wrench.....

I dont think he 'decided to destroy his own program'. I dont know *what* caused the engine to fall out, but at the end of the day the buck stops at OG's desk for the demolition derby we have seen for 1 and a half of the last two seasons.

If you dont think that the buck doesnt stop there, well, you and I will respectfully disagree. But please dont make strawman arguments here.

I think that JK knows (like the vast majority of us) that the wheels got tossed off this thing awhile back. I do think that OG thinks he is a minor tweak away from a Super Regional and thinks that the extra year is justified. Those two outlooks are horrendously at odds with one another. That is the sole point. Not laying blame at OG for 'destroying' anything, but the singular fact is that the car has thrown it's engine regardless of *how*; and OG is where the buck stops for that issue.

Respectfully disagree we shall. The buck stops at the AD’s Desk, if not the President’s. Not getting ahead of this collapse is blood on their hands. Not on the man who built it all in the first place. Particularly not when said AD has overseen a similar regression in multiple sports.

When’s the next Podcast by the way? That should be a riveting piece of commentary. I think he can go ahead and guess what a vast majority of the questions from the 15 listeners will be.

So a coach has no responsibility (zero, zilch, nada) for his team going from competitive to being in the dumpster.... got it. Interesting point of view, to say the least.

(05-16-2018 01:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So a coach has no responsibility (zero, zilch, nada) for his team going from competitive to being in the dumpster.... got it. Interesting point of view, to say the least.

Well, at Rice it might be construed we've pretty much seen that perspective work for the former "football coach." Not saying I agree, just that it seems it's been tried (successfully for about a decade, no less) here before.

(05-16-2018 01:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So a coach has no responsibility (zero, zilch, nada) for his team going from competitive to being in the dumpster.... got it. Interesting point of view, to say the least.

you apparently have not been paying attention to the things going on behind the scenes...though your post reveals significant alliances...good for you....we're still in the game...like it or not...we're still in the game.

(05-18-2018 12:58 AM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-16-2018 01:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So a coach has no responsibility (zero, zilch, nada) for his team going from competitive to being in the dumpster.... got it. Interesting point of view, to say the least.

you apparently have not been paying attention to the things going on behind the scenes...though your post reveals significant alliances...good for you....we're still in the game...like it or not...we're still in the game.

edited my original post to delete everything out as just not worth it, save for:

the Bizarro-world idea of my 'significant alliances'.

Thus far, zero team championships for Rice during the 2017-18 academic year (soccer does not count because the team failed to win the conference tournament). It would be poetic justice if the baseball team were to salvage a disastrous 9 months for the AD.

Tell soccer to give back the trophy and the rings. I don't think they were aware that those didn't count.

In our long streak of baseball championships, we counted both/either regular season and/or tournament.

We also counted the 8 way tie for second (or whatever it was) in the 1994 SWC behind the probationary but possible best team in college football Texas Ags as a football conference title. That one might be the worst.

Soccer had a legit conference title with an undefeated conference record. Lay off the negativity required to prove a trivial argument.

A less controversial data point than conference championships might be where we currently stand amongst CUSA members in the Directors' Cup rankings. Answer: T-11th.

With that said, these rankings are through the winter sports only, and are due to be updated on May 24 with the first rankings points from spring sports, in which we'll be getting some points from women's tennis.

(05-18-2018 11:11 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Tell soccer to give back the trophy and the rings. I don't think they were aware that those didn't count.

It's idiotic to have two championships in one sport in the same season . If they got a trophy and rings, they are as fraudulent as those 1994 football rings.

(05-18-2018 04:50 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  A less controversial data point than conference championships might be where we currently stand amongst CUSA members in the Directors' Cup rankings. Answer: T-11th.

With that said, these rankings are through the winter sports only, and are due to be updated on May 24 with the first rankings points from spring sports, in which we'll be getting some points from women's tennis.

Last year (2016-7), we were 6th of 12 -- just 2.5 points behind 5th -- with more than 2/3 of our points coming in the spring (men & women's tennis and men's track & field).

In 2015-6, we were 2nd in C-USA, with 83% of our points coming in the Spring.

Previous years' Directors' Cup point standings can be accessed via this website: http://www.nacda.com/directorscup/nacda-...oring.html
... and here's the schedule for the release of the Spring scores:

May 24 -- WWP, MVB, WBeachVB
June 7 -- M-W LAX, M-W TEN, M-W Golf, WROW
June 14 -- SFB, M-W T&F
June 29 -- BSB

(05-18-2018 11:21 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  We also counted the 8 way tie for second (or whatever it was) in the 1994 SWC behind the probationary but possible best team in college football Texas Ags as a football conference title. That one might be the worst.

Soccer had a legit conference title with an undefeated conference record. Lay off the negativity required to prove a trivial argument.

It’s disappointing to me that so many seem to feel that cheating (in this example, the Aggies) justifies the ends, particularly if everyone else is doing it.

As a Rice alum and Rice Owl fan, I’m proud of both of those titles, and I’m also proud that we were the ONLY SWC team that wasn’t cheating. That is a title we can claim without ties. It is sometimes harder to win that way...

I’m also disappointed that so many want to run Rice Athletics exactly like a business. Sure, I get that we need to improve revenue streams. That’s cool. But this is an enterprise where the bottom line should be the benefit to the student athlete. Everything else is auxiliary to some extent or another. That’s how I see it anyway. You’re not wrong if you see it differently.
I do think that Rice’s willingness to stand for honor and integrity has in the past served us well and frankly made us, well, somewhat unique.

I do hope that can continue on to the next phase.

(05-18-2018 08:09 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 11:21 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  We also counted the 8 way tie for second (or whatever it was) in the 1994 SWC behind the probationary but possible best team in college football Texas Ags as a football conference title. That one might be the worst.

Soccer had a legit conference title with an undefeated conference record. Lay off the negativity required to prove a trivial argument.

It’s disappointing to me that so many seem to feel that cheating (in this example, the Aggies) justifies the ends, particularly if everyone else is doing it.

As a Rice alum and Rice Owl fan, I’m proud of both of those titles, and I’m also proud that we were the ONLY SWC team that wasn’t cheating. That is a title we can claim without ties. It is sometimes harder to win that way...

I’m also disappointed that so many want to run Rice Athletics exactly like a business. Sure, I get that we need to improve revenue streams. That’s cool. But this is an enterprise where the bottom line should be the benefit to the student athlete. Everything else is auxiliary to some extent or another. That’s how I see it anyway. You’re not wrong if you see it differently.
I do think that Rice’s willingness to stand for honor and integrity has in the past served us well and frankly made us, well, somewhat unique.

I do hope that can continue on to the next phase.

Yes.

(05-16-2018 01:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So a coach has no responsibility (zero, zilch, nada) for his team going from competitive to being in the dumpster.... got it. Interesting point of view, to say the least.

Why don’t you let your best player write lineup cards and pull pitchers or call plays?

Same reason it’s not a coaches job to manage his own transition out of leading the program.

It’s players job to play. The coaches job to manage the players. The ADs job to manage the coaches. When there are issues with coaches that falls on the ADs desk.

(05-15-2018 11:53 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 02:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:12 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:52 PM)davidw Wrote:  How do you put a succession plan in place if Wayne doesn't want to retire ? Even at 82 yrs old, he said he still wants to coach, wherever it may be. If an attempt to put such a plan in place was made 3 years ago, I think he'd have been just as miffed and we'd have had this exact same discussion thread at the time.

Just curious. Don't read into this that I'm anti-Wayne. I think he's a helluva coach and a helluva guy.

You be an AD that has good relationships with your head coaches. You are correct, in that if you dictate to a coach and if a coach dictates to you...this becomes inevitable. With good relationships, you figure it out.

Sometimes the personalities on both sides preclude what we found ourselves in --- a change was overdue to occur; an AD that didnt press the issue; and a HC that hammers home that he needs just *one* more year ---- most likely ad infinitum on the 'just one more' thing.

Sorry this was a train wreck. But each party in it brought it to where it was. Equal blame abounds on every side for this one.

Not disparaging OG for his on-field accomplishments in putting Rice Baseball on the map and he deserves[ed] all the accolades in the world for that; but it is stunningly obvious that this ride threw a rod in the engine about 5 years back, and the current model is belching black smoke and sporting two flat tires, one wheel riding on the rim, and the hood just ripped free of the car and is sailing off in back of it.

I cannot fathom how a head coach can look at the dented jalopy from last year that found just enough oomph from the engine to wind its way to the NCAA tourney and the absolute demolition-derby class this year and say that another year is warranted and should be in the works.

Yay! Rice Baseball is in the 'rider's seat' for an 7 or 8 slot at the CUSA tourney -- break out the good stuff and put it on ice for a celebration for that..... /sarcasm off

This year is like watching Joe Namath's last year in the NFL with the Rams......

you have no freaking idea what has been going on behind the scenes since joey has been hired....to fire...you have no idea...it will be exposed in due time....it is "stunningly obvious" to those in the know how this program has been undermined for at least the last four years....but if it serves your narrative, you go girl...

Joe Namath or more like Joe Louis getting in the ring with Marciano. That was so sad.

(05-20-2018 09:05 PM)richmond Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 11:53 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 02:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:12 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 12:52 PM)davidw Wrote:  How do you put a succession plan in place if Wayne doesn't want to retire ? Even at 82 yrs old, he said he still wants to coach, wherever it may be. If an attempt to put such a plan in place was made 3 years ago, I think he'd have been just as miffed and we'd have had this exact same discussion thread at the time.

Just curious. Don't read into this that I'm anti-Wayne. I think he's a helluva coach and a helluva guy.

You be an AD that has good relationships with your head coaches. You are correct, in that if you dictate to a coach and if a coach dictates to you...this becomes inevitable. With good relationships, you figure it out.

Sometimes the personalities on both sides preclude what we found ourselves in --- a change was overdue to occur; an AD that didnt press the issue; and a HC that hammers home that he needs just *one* more year ---- most likely ad infinitum on the 'just one more' thing.

Sorry this was a train wreck. But each party in it brought it to where it was. Equal blame abounds on every side for this one.

Not disparaging OG for his on-field accomplishments in putting Rice Baseball on the map and he deserves[ed] all the accolades in the world for that; but it is stunningly obvious that this ride threw a rod in the engine about 5 years back, and the current model is belching black smoke and sporting two flat tires, one wheel riding on the rim, and the hood just ripped free of the car and is sailing off in back of it.

I cannot fathom how a head coach can look at the dented jalopy from last year that found just enough oomph from the engine to wind its way to the NCAA tourney and the absolute demolition-derby class this year and say that another year is warranted and should be in the works.

Yay! Rice Baseball is in the 'rider's seat' for an 7 or 8 slot at the CUSA tourney -- break out the good stuff and put it on ice for a celebration for that..... /sarcasm off

This year is like watching Joe Namath's last year in the NFL with the Rams......

you have no freaking idea what has been going on behind the scenes since joey has been hired....to fire...you have no idea...it will be exposed in due time....it is "stunningly obvious" to those in the know how this program has been undermined for at least the last four years....but if it serves your narrative, you go girl...

Joe Namath or more like Joe Louis getting in the ring with Marciano. That was so sad.

I didnt have the privilege of watching Louis/Marciano as it unfolded.

I did witness Namath with the Rams. On an Monday Night game (his last start and last game ever....) Cringe-worthy as Namath could barely trot, and watching him get pummeled as a non-mobile QB was just ghastly....

(05-20-2018 09:21 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 09:05 PM)richmond Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 11:53 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 02:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:12 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  You be an AD that has good relationships with your head coaches. You are correct, in that if you dictate to a coach and if a coach dictates to you...this becomes inevitable. With good relationships, you figure it out.

Sometimes the personalities on both sides preclude what we found ourselves in --- a change was overdue to occur; an AD that didnt press the issue; and a HC that hammers home that he needs just *one* more year ---- most likely ad infinitum on the 'just one more' thing.

Sorry this was a train wreck. But each party in it brought it to where it was. Equal blame abounds on every side for this one.

Not disparaging OG for his on-field accomplishments in putting Rice Baseball on the map and he deserves[ed] all the accolades in the world for that; but it is stunningly obvious that this ride threw a rod in the engine about 5 years back, and the current model is belching black smoke and sporting two flat tires, one wheel riding on the rim, and the hood just ripped free of the car and is sailing off in back of it.

I cannot fathom how a head coach can look at the dented jalopy from last year that found just enough oomph from the engine to wind its way to the NCAA tourney and the absolute demolition-derby class this year and say that another year is warranted and should be in the works.

Yay! Rice Baseball is in the 'rider's seat' for an 7 or 8 slot at the CUSA tourney -- break out the good stuff and put it on ice for a celebration for that..... /sarcasm off

This year is like watching Joe Namath's last year in the NFL with the Rams......

you have no freaking idea what has been going on behind the scenes since joey has been hired....to fire...you have no idea...it will be exposed in due time....it is "stunningly obvious" to those in the know how this program has been undermined for at least the last four years....but if it serves your narrative, you go girl...

Joe Namath or more like Joe Louis getting in the ring with Marciano. That was so sad.

I didnt have the privilege of watching Louis/Marciano as it unfolded.

I did witness Namath with the Rams. On an Monday Night game (his last start and last game ever....) Cringe-worthy as Namath could barely trot, and watching him get pummeled as a non-mobile QB was just ghastly....

I remember being amazed at his astronomical $400K signing bonus.