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University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #21
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
The articles have said that all the sports are on the table. Some chopping or dropping sports and also cut the budget for sports like football by firing coaches and all that. If New Mexico got the nod as the 12th member the Big 12 instead of Baylor? Would they be in the shape they are in now? Chopping blocks could mean dropping sports to less cash to spend for certain sports.
05-03-2018 08:42 PM
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-03-2018 01:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  *if* UNM decides they need to cut anything to make the budget, it'll be something like Men's Golf and Women's Swimming & Diving. That is how one deals with a shortfall due to Football and Basketball misuse of funds.

More likely they fire a coach and some staffers with cause and deny some bonuses, defer some projects a couple years, cut a few minor extras here and there, raise ticket prices 5%, and put on a one year salary freeze for everyone. In the interim the Chancellor loans the department $2M to be paid back over five years, and presto, you've closed a budget hole.

New Mexico has a $45M athletic budget, and the "problem" amounts to less than 4% of that budget. There is some indication that the AD is not running a tight ship as far as tracking finances and that is just grounds to fire them. Similarly the head coaches of Football and Basketball may lose some bonuses for failing to properly account for funds and in a case or two have misused them. I think things pretty much end there, with the institution placing more oversight on the athletic department and staffers as well as the AD getting replaced.

The notion that any sports will get cut is entirely premature and somewhat unlikely. Much easier to can a few people.
Again, the current AD was hired in August, so he inherited the financial mess from former AD Krebs, who oversaw or participated in all of the graft.

Davie hasn't been fired because they couldn't afford to pay his contract and former hoops coach Craig Neal at the same time. They've already spent money to investigate him THREE times and found they couldn't fire him for cause, so they suspended him w/o pay for 30 days.
05-03-2018 09:00 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
OK the AD stays, since it's not his mess.
05-04-2018 12:34 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #24
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-03-2018 02:56 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  With 22 sports they sure have some wiggle room to make cuts.

They might have to also layoff an extensive coach or 2.

Yes. Outside the Big 10, Pac 12, ACC and Ivy League, few schools have that many. Even in the SEC and Big 12, a lot of schools only have between 16 (the minimum for FBS) and 18. Texas only has 20.
05-04-2018 08:28 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-04-2018 08:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 02:56 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  With 22 sports they sure have some wiggle room to make cuts.

They might have to also layoff an extensive coach or 2.

Yes. Outside the Big 10, Pac 12, ACC and Ivy League, few schools have that many. Even in the SEC and Big 12, a lot of schools only have between 16 (the minimum for FBS) and 18. Texas only has 20.
That's why they have to SAY that options include cutting sports, whether or not there are any sports on the chopping block behind closed doors. A school with 22 sports and an athletic department budget hole that says that cutting sports is off the table does not sound serious about closing the budget hole.
05-06-2018 12:02 AM
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Post: #26
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-03-2018 05:29 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  I just saw the story that Kirby Smart signed a $7 million per year deal at Georgia. Of course that's not exactly Harbaugh's $9 million or Saban's $11 million, but if he and his wife clip coupons and shop garage sales... they might make it.

Is college sports just a capitalistic enterprise that takes advantage of the university's tax exempt status and a low paid workforce? Is college football just NFL-lite?

Billions of dollars are flowing into college sports- but we don't see a level playing field. Some schools are being unfairly left behind in the P5 era. The left behind schools are cutting programs, reducing opportunities for students. Because of title IX, men's Olympic sports (track, swimming, wrestling, tennis, along with baseball) are being devastated in this time of unprecedented wealth.

If there was vision and will, the expanding pot of money could create expanding opportunities across the board. But the "system" is broken and is collapsing. In 10 years it will be a few dozen big state universities & Notre Dame. Now that we've had schools top the $200 million mark in revenue; which will be the 1st to $500 million? Who will be the first $20 million college football coach? Who will be the first $1 million a year college football player??

Oh well... now that I've vented I feel better. But this snowball is rolling downhill faster and faster and nothing seems to be able to stop it.
What will college sports look like in 10 years? Will it still even be college sports?
Darn shame for the kids who will find out their program is going to be eliminated.
You'd think institutions filled with bright people could do better than this.

In general intercollegiate athletics is not a capitalistic enterprise.

There is very little emphasis on returning profits to the owners and the owners aren't trying to maximize value to sell the enterprise.
05-06-2018 02:02 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-06-2018 02:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  In general intercollegiate athletics is not a capitalistic enterprise.

There is very little emphasis on returning profits to the owners and the owners aren't trying to maximize value to sell the enterprise.
Yes ... when a going concern is run on a non-profit basis, with profits handed over to somebody else, there is a strong tendency to let costs go up in a way that benefits the people running the organization, because they do not get a share in the profits. And for the most purposes, the going concern is not the University, it is the Athletics Department, and revenues that are profits handed over to the University are revenues that could have been used for the benefit of the Athletics Department instead, if it was just possible to generate a "necessary cost" item instead.

The most lucrative Athletic Departments do hand over a small surplus, but that is more a matter of the amount necessary to buy effective autonomy within the University.

And then the less lucrative Athletic Departments get into an arms race with the bigger ones to hold onto coaches and have facilities to let them recruit the second string prospects of the bigger schools to be first stringers at their school, and the relatively small surplus at the lucrative departments get translated into an ongoing loss for the median department.

Now, it's not universal, and some Athletic Departments run a tight ship, but the most common problems are not exactly the same as the most common problems you run into with a for profit commercial corporation. It's more like the problems of featherbedding that are an ongoing problem in not for profit charities.
05-06-2018 10:47 PM
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Post: #28
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
"This university administrator is facing prison time and you'll never guess why! Click here!" Can we change the thread title to something that's not alarmist and misleading?
05-06-2018 11:05 PM
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Post: #29
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-06-2018 10:47 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-06-2018 02:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  In general intercollegiate athletics is not a capitalistic enterprise.

There is very little emphasis on returning profits to the owners and the owners aren't trying to maximize value to sell the enterprise.
Yes ... when a going concern is run on a non-profit basis, with profits handed over to somebody else, there is a strong tendency to let costs go up in a way that benefits the people running the organization, because they do not get a share in the profits. And for the most purposes, the going concern is not the University, it is the Athletics Department, and revenues that are profits handed over to the University are revenues that could have been used for the benefit of the Athletics Department instead, if it was just possible to generate a "necessary cost" item instead.

The most lucrative Athletic Departments do hand over a small surplus, but that is more a matter of the amount necessary to buy effective autonomy within the University.

And then the less lucrative Athletic Departments get into an arms race with the bigger ones to hold onto coaches and have facilities to let them recruit the second string prospects of the bigger schools to be first stringers at their school, and the relatively small surplus at the lucrative departments get translated into an ongoing loss for the median department.

Now, it's not universal, and some Athletic Departments run a tight ship, but the most common problems are not exactly the same as the most common problems you run into with a for profit commercial corporation. It's more like the problems of featherbedding that are an ongoing problem in not for profit charities.

The bolded part is 100% correct.

Most university presidents want athletics to lose a bit of money so they have to come to the president to finance their operations. Otherwise they have very limited control in reality. The AD of a successful athletic department is more popular than the president/chancellor and tends to have the ear of more influencers than the university administration.
05-07-2018 10:55 AM
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Post: #30
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
New audit: UNM athletics runs ‘informal’ financial operation
https://www.abqjournal.com/1175040/new-a...1526998859
05-23-2018 11:43 AM
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Post: #31
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-23-2018 11:43 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  New audit: UNM athletics runs ‘informal’ financial operation
https://www.abqjournal.com/1175040/new-a...1526998859


Nice spin they put on it.

A nice way of saying that there is a lack of institutional control of finances. Actually, that may only be partly true. David Harris (VP / finance) has abetted this for years based on what I have read.
05-23-2018 12:13 PM
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Post: #32
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-03-2018 05:29 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  I just saw the story that Kirby Smart signed a $7 million per year deal at Georgia. Of course that's not exactly Harbaugh's $9 million or Saban's $11 million, but if he and his wife clip coupons and shop garage sales... they might make it.

Is college sports just a capitalistic enterprise that takes advantage of the university's tax exempt status and a low paid workforce? Is college football just NFL-lite?

Billions of dollars are flowing into college sports- but we don't see a level playing field. Some schools are being unfairly left behind in the P5 era. The left behind schools are cutting programs, reducing opportunities for students. Because of title IX, men's Olympic sports (track, swimming, wrestling, tennis, along with baseball) are being devastated in this time of unprecedented wealth.

If there was vision and will, the expanding pot of money could create expanding opportunities across the board. But the "system" is broken and is collapsing. In 10 years it will be a few dozen big state universities & Notre Dame. Now that we've had schools top the $200 million mark in revenue; which will be the 1st to $500 million? Who will be the first $20 million college football coach? Who will be the first $1 million a year college football player??

Oh well... now that I've vented I feel better. But this snowball is rolling downhill faster and faster and nothing seems to be able to stop it.
What will college sports look like in 10 years? Will it still even be college sports?
Darn shame for the kids who will find out their program is going to be eliminated.
You'd think institutions filled with bright people could do better than this.

Yes, it is and it will only get worse before it may get better.
05-23-2018 02:06 PM
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Post: #33
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-03-2018 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The articles have said that all the sports are on the table. Some chopping or dropping sports and also cut the budget for sports like football by firing coaches and all that. If New Mexico got the nod as the 12th member the Big 12 instead of Baylor? Would they be in the shape they are in now? Chopping blocks could mean dropping sports to less cash to spend for certain sports.

“All sports are on the table”—Davey my boy, you normally talk about a Colorado mines or a bacone State going FBS, now you are suggesting that New Mexico drop its football, basketball or baseball teams? Hahahahaha....you’ve changed!
05-23-2018 03:44 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #34
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-23-2018 03:44 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The articles have said that all the sports are on the table. Some chopping or dropping sports and also cut the budget for sports like football by firing coaches and all that. If New Mexico got the nod as the 12th member the Big 12 instead of Baylor? Would they be in the shape they are in now? Chopping blocks could mean dropping sports to less cash to spend for certain sports.

“All sports are on the table”—Davey my boy, you normally talk about a Colorado mines or a bacone State going FBS, now you are suggesting that New Mexico drop its football, basketball or baseball teams? Hahahahaha....you’ve changed!


I did not change. I just don't want schools to drop football. Any schools who dropped or refuse to start football are chicken poo. Yeah, I am calling out the D1 schools including Grand Canyon U. a bunch of cowards for doing these things.
05-23-2018 04:38 PM
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-23-2018 04:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 03:44 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The articles have said that all the sports are on the table. Some chopping or dropping sports and also cut the budget for sports like football by firing coaches and all that. If New Mexico got the nod as the 12th member the Big 12 instead of Baylor? Would they be in the shape they are in now? Chopping blocks could mean dropping sports to less cash to spend for certain sports.

“All sports are on the table”—Davey my boy, you normally talk about a Colorado mines or a bacone State going FBS, now you are suggesting that New Mexico drop its football, basketball or baseball teams? Hahahahaha....you’ve changed!


I did not change. I just don't want schools to drop football. Any schools who dropped or refuse to start football are chicken poo. Yeah, I am calling out the D1 schools including Grand Canyon U. a bunch of cowards for doing these things.

What did Grand Canyon U do? Drop football?
05-23-2018 05:14 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #36
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-23-2018 05:14 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 04:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 03:44 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The articles have said that all the sports are on the table. Some chopping or dropping sports and also cut the budget for sports like football by firing coaches and all that. If New Mexico got the nod as the 12th member the Big 12 instead of Baylor? Would they be in the shape they are in now? Chopping blocks could mean dropping sports to less cash to spend for certain sports.

“All sports are on the table”—Davey my boy, you normally talk about a Colorado mines or a bacone State going FBS, now you are suggesting that New Mexico drop its football, basketball or baseball teams? Hahahahaha....you’ve changed!


I did not change. I just don't want schools to drop football. Any schools who dropped or refuse to start football are chicken poo. Yeah, I am calling out the D1 schools including Grand Canyon U. a bunch of cowards for doing these things.

What did Grand Canyon U do? Drop football?


They got cold feet in starting football when they did a study on adding it.
05-23-2018 05:21 PM
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-23-2018 05:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 05:14 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 04:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 03:44 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The articles have said that all the sports are on the table. Some chopping or dropping sports and also cut the budget for sports like football by firing coaches and all that. If New Mexico got the nod as the 12th member the Big 12 instead of Baylor? Would they be in the shape they are in now? Chopping blocks could mean dropping sports to less cash to spend for certain sports.

“All sports are on the table”—Davey my boy, you normally talk about a Colorado mines or a bacone State going FBS, now you are suggesting that New Mexico drop its football, basketball or baseball teams? Hahahahaha....you’ve changed!


I did not change. I just don't want schools to drop football. Any schools who dropped or refuse to start football are chicken poo. Yeah, I am calling out the D1 schools including Grand Canyon U. a bunch of cowards for doing these things.

What did Grand Canyon U do? Drop football?


They got cold feet in starting football when they did a study on adding it.

Incorrect. The options were to go DI and not add football, or add football and stay DII.
05-23-2018 05:25 PM
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Post: #38
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(05-07-2018 10:55 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-06-2018 10:47 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-06-2018 02:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  In general intercollegiate athletics is not a capitalistic enterprise.

There is very little emphasis on returning profits to the owners and the owners aren't trying to maximize value to sell the enterprise.
Yes ... when a going concern is run on a non-profit basis, with profits handed over to somebody else, there is a strong tendency to let costs go up in a way that benefits the people running the organization, because they do not get a share in the profits. And for the most purposes, the going concern is not the University, it is the Athletics Department, and revenues that are profits handed over to the University are revenues that could have been used for the benefit of the Athletics Department instead, if it was just possible to generate a "necessary cost" item instead.

The most lucrative Athletic Departments do hand over a small surplus, but that is more a matter of the amount necessary to buy effective autonomy within the University.

And then the less lucrative Athletic Departments get into an arms race with the bigger ones to hold onto coaches and have facilities to let them recruit the second string prospects of the bigger schools to be first stringers at their school, and the relatively small surplus at the lucrative departments get translated into an ongoing loss for the median department.

Now, it's not universal, and some Athletic Departments run a tight ship, but the most common problems are not exactly the same as the most common problems you run into with a for profit commercial corporation. It's more like the problems of featherbedding that are an ongoing problem in not for profit charities.

The bolded part is 100% correct.

Most university presidents want athletics to lose a bit of money so they have to come to the president to finance their operations. Otherwise they have very limited control in reality. The AD of a successful athletic department is more popular than the president/chancellor and tends to have the ear of more influencers than the university administration.

I'd argue the whole profit and loss thing is a shell game anyway. The G5 schools get skewered because they require significant subsidies to operate---but the biggest athletic department cost at most G5 schools is scholarships. So, the school pays a 20 million dollar subsidy to the athletic department and----whats the first thing the athletic department does? It writes about a 20 million dollar check to the school to cover the tuition for its athletes. How much does it really cost a school to add one more kid to a class? I doubt the real incremental cost of educating the 200-400 athletes at a G5 university is anywhere near the actual "scholarships" line item in the athletic "budget".
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2018 11:12 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-23-2018 11:09 PM
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Post: #39
RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
Scholarship costs added to UNM sport-by-sport expenses analysis
https://www.abqjournal.com/1184175/schol...1528900293
06-19-2018 12:39 AM
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RE: University Of New Mexico Athletics On The Chopping Block
(06-19-2018 12:39 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  Scholarship costs added to UNM sport-by-sport expenses analysis
https://www.abqjournal.com/1184175/schol...1528900293

Amazing to think Chuck Staben at Idaho was trying to convince the Idaho board that academic scholarships were a revenue, not an expense, and by adding academic scholarships for two additional (non-revenue) teams they would turn a $1M profit. Of course one of the Academic side guy told reporters that what it amounted to was a clever way to shift $1M deficit onto the academic side of the institution, and that he'd have to go to each of his deans to see where they could cut $1M to pay for these scholarships. So much for Staben's Enron accounting tricks.


This is a tough blow for New Mexico, but I suspect we will see a wave of budget cuts across G5 as revenues have not kept pace with expenses and institutional transfers to the athletic department have grown to non-trivial levels, thereby drawing scrutiny. Fundamentally the NCAA has to find ways to make FBS less expensive to compete in (e.g., limiting the number of coaches, limiting the number of staff, reducing the scholarship level to say 70 or 75 for non autonomous schools).

I am also convinced the NCAA needs to set accounting standards and more transparent financial reporting with clearer breakdowns. They also need to assign a large share of "not allocated by team" expenses to specific teams based on their use and overhead. It's as if you were a company doing government contracts, and on your time card you use the overhead charge for all management of the account which is for some specific project. It's a really bad practice designed to hide expenses, and almost 40% of budgets are in this overhead bucket (Yes, maybe a quarter of this overhead budget would be there if you had only one sport, simply to run the department, but the rest grows with the number of sports and scholarship athletes and coaches you manage). If you actually allocated the overhead costs in New Mexico's case, you'd probably see the real cost of football rise from $8.7M to something close to $15-16M. You'd see a similar rise in other sports as well.

Anyway, I am at least glad New Mexico is being forced to call scholarships what they are, an expense.
06-19-2018 03:17 AM
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