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Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
I would have liked to see Ed Warriner get the Kansas HC job a few years ago (I believe he was a finalist). He's bounced around since his stop at Ohio State (Minnesota/Michigan), but was at Kansas as OL coach before. He also has stops at Illinois, Notre Dame and Michigan State, so he was familiar with the Midwest.

I don't think Beaty (or Zenger) are long for Kansas. Before long, they will be looking (again) for leadership to get football out of the dumpster.
05-08-2018 08:31 AM
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PlayBall! Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-07-2018 09:05 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Isn't there an indoor practice facility... included??

Construction on that new IPF has started recently. It is to be just southwest of the stadium.

Old one is just west of Allen Fieldhouse.
05-08-2018 02:17 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Kansas had had success. They were top 10 in both 1994 and 2007. Had they managed to beat Missouri (and then won the Big 12 ccg), they would have likely played Ohio St. in the BCS title game in that crazy 2007 year.
05-08-2018 09:07 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-07-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Since they fired Mangino, they have really missed on each of the head coaches they hired. Gill was a failure. Weis was a failure. Beaty, thus far, has been a failure. With the resources and scheduling, there is no reason that Kansas should be this bad for this long in football.

Missouri suffers the same fate and is the only P school in their state of 6 million. It's just tough to find enough 4 stars or higher to field a competitive team.

St. Louis and Kansas City produce enough talent annually for Mizzou to be a solid top 25 program in both football and men's basketball. It's Mizzou's self inflected recruiting problem that they can't keep them at home.
05-09-2018 07:01 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-07-2018 06:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  but very seldom does a college position coach make it big in FBS

And yet Clemson's two most successful coaches, Dabo Swinney and Danny Ford, were both position coaches when they were given the HC slot.


What Kansas should have done after the Mangino problems was go after Frank Solich. He's a successful HC everywhere he's been and his name alone would have helped recruiting in the region. He wouldn't have been a long term solution based on his age but it's not a stretch to think that he would have been able to maintain much of the momentum from the Mangino era.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2018 07:05 AM by Kaplony.)
05-10-2018 06:57 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-08-2018 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Kansas had had success. They were top 10 in both 1994 and 2007. Had they managed to beat Missouri (and then won the Big 12 ccg), they would have likely played Ohio St. in the BCS title game in that crazy 2007 year.

For most of my life, both Kansas and Kansas State have been weak a lot more often than strong. Under Snyder, K-State has been successful in mining the JUCO ranks for talent, while Kansas seems to have avoided going that route. It remains to be seen whether K-State will sustain Snyder's success when he retires (again). The first retirement didn't work out so well. If they go with his son to succeed him, I'd be inclined to bet Junior won't make it past his initial contract.
05-10-2018 09:55 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-10-2018 09:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-08-2018 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Kansas had had success. They were top 10 in both 1994 and 2007. Had they managed to beat Missouri (and then won the Big 12 ccg), they would have likely played Ohio St. in the BCS title game in that crazy 2007 year.

For most of my life, both Kansas and Kansas State have been weak a lot more often than strong. Under Snyder, K-State has been successful in mining the JUCO ranks for talent, while Kansas seems to have avoided going that route. It remains to be seen whether K-State will sustain Snyder's success when he retires (again). The first retirement didn't work out so well. If they go with his son to succeed him, I'd be inclined to bet Junior won't make it past his initial contract.

There aren't that many coaches out there who know how to evaluate raw talent and develop it. Snyder is one of those guys. He can take an 18 year old and teach him proper technique and how to think through the progression of a play. Most head coaches can't do that. They get talent based on other people's evaluations and expect them to be able to use proper technique and think through the progression of a play.

Championship coaches can do this. Snyder anywhere but Kansas State would likely have won a championship or several. Why not at K State? Availability of talent and a very tough sale on destination.
05-10-2018 11:07 AM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-10-2018 06:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 06:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  but very seldom does a college position coach make it big in FBS

And yet Clemson's two most successful coaches, Dabo Swinney and Danny Ford, were both position coaches when they were given the HC slot.

What Kansas should have done after the Mangino problems was go after Frank Solich. He's a successful HC everywhere he's been and his name alone would have helped recruiting in the region. He wouldn't have been a long term solution based on his age but it's not a stretch to think that he would have been able to maintain much of the momentum from the Mangino era.

That's a fair point, but both of them were position coaches who were promoted from within instead of coming from the outside. That's a much different scenario than an out-of-conference assistant taking over a bottom of the barrel P5 program that draws less than MAC teams even though they're hosting big names like Oklahoma and TCU every year.
05-10-2018 10:02 PM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-07-2018 12:42 PM)megadrone Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 12:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 11:25 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the $300 million expansion project helps turns things around.

Improving the team is more important than improving the stadium, though. If you can't even sell any hope of contending, good luck selling more tickets.

I made a comment on the other board last week, in response to someone making the shallow, worn-out comment about Rutgers not winning at football even though they have Big Ten money: Everyone else in the Big Ten also has Big Ten TV money, and there are several teams that are more attractive to football players and coaches and have a lot more money than Rutgers, because selling out football stadiums every week and hauling in giant donations gets you a lot more money than even the Big Ten's TV money.

Kansas has the same problem. They're never going to have the ticket revenue of OU or UT, and they're never going to have the donations to football that those two (and Ok St and TCU) rake in. On top of that, it's likely that the big donors that KU does have want to earmark their donations for basketball because they want to be associated with a perennial winner and get choice seats at the NCAA tournament every year.

Rutgers success in large part depends on breaking a long tradition of top level in-state players going somewhere else. It's the same issue Ole Miss and Miss St face with Alabama and LSU often being an in-state player's first choices.

There are some places in the world which kids just want to get away from. Mississippi and New Jersey are probably two of them.

We also have 3 pro teams playing within a 90 minute drive of our campus. Works against making Rutgers a destination and no other team in the country has that working against them.

We have several problems that came with moving up from the days when we played a mainly Ivy type schedule.
1. No instate or natural all sports rival - Once was Princeton
2. No state pride - Question what is the only flagship state university not named after its state?
3. The entire northeast is more of a pro sports area - Pitt, UConn, BC, Temple and Buffalo all to some extent have the same problem. Ped St and Cuse are exceptions, but both are located in the boonies.
4. Rutgers is a big state university that stepped up to big time sports with the D1 split in 1972, but its athletic department and administration in whole continued to think and act as if it were a small private university well into the 1990s - our facilities and fund raising are easily twenty years behind other P5's.
5. We are not receiving a full BIG 10 share of revenue and will not for several more years.
6. Kids in NJ like to leave the state for college - We export a higher percentage of college students than any other state, that's across the board, not just athletes.
05-11-2018 01:30 PM
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-10-2018 11:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 09:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-08-2018 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Kansas had had success. They were top 10 in both 1994 and 2007. Had they managed to beat Missouri (and then won the Big 12 ccg), they would have likely played Ohio St. in the BCS title game in that crazy 2007 year.

For most of my life, both Kansas and Kansas State have been weak a lot more often than strong. Under Snyder, K-State has been successful in mining the JUCO ranks for talent, while Kansas seems to have avoided going that route. It remains to be seen whether K-State will sustain Snyder's success when he retires (again). The first retirement didn't work out so well. If they go with his son to succeed him, I'd be inclined to bet Junior won't make it past his initial contract.

There aren't that many coaches out there who know how to evaluate raw talent and develop it. Snyder is one of those guys. He can take an 18 year old and teach him proper technique and how to think through the progression of a play. Most head coaches can't do that. They get talent based on other people's evaluations and expect them to be able to use proper technique and think through the progression of a play.

Championship coaches can do this. Snyder anywhere but Kansas State would likely have won a championship or several. Why not at K State? Availability of talent and a very tough sale on destination.

Agree....also, has anyone else noticed the respect and affection his players have for him. He takes kids from all backgrounds and they seem to love playing for him.
05-11-2018 02:25 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-11-2018 02:25 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 11:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 09:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-08-2018 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Kansas had had success. They were top 10 in both 1994 and 2007. Had they managed to beat Missouri (and then won the Big 12 ccg), they would have likely played Ohio St. in the BCS title game in that crazy 2007 year.

For most of my life, both Kansas and Kansas State have been weak a lot more often than strong. Under Snyder, K-State has been successful in mining the JUCO ranks for talent, while Kansas seems to have avoided going that route. It remains to be seen whether K-State will sustain Snyder's success when he retires (again). The first retirement didn't work out so well. If they go with his son to succeed him, I'd be inclined to bet Junior won't make it past his initial contract.

There aren't that many coaches out there who know how to evaluate raw talent and develop it. Snyder is one of those guys. He can take an 18 year old and teach him proper technique and how to think through the progression of a play. Most head coaches can't do that. They get talent based on other people's evaluations and expect them to be able to use proper technique and think through the progression of a play.

Championship coaches can do this. Snyder anywhere but Kansas State would likely have won a championship or several. Why not at K State? Availability of talent and a very tough sale on destination.

Agree....also, has anyone else noticed the respect and affection his players have for him. He takes kids from all backgrounds and they seem to love playing for him.

Yep, Shug Jordan was that way too. Those are rare coaches. We haven't had one at Auburn since Jordan retired that really got close to the players. Dye probably came closer than any of the others. Snyder would have been a class act kind of father figure that players didn't want to disappoint no matter where he coached. Kansas State was extremely lucky he was theirs.
05-11-2018 05:23 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-08-2018 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Any team that wants to go from the bottom of a P5 conference to being a consistent contender (as opposed to having one fluke season every 30 years) has to make their program as good as or better than those at the top of their league. I don't see a way for Rutgers to do that unless at least two of the top four programs in their division self-destruct.

Kansas has it a little easier, in theory. Snyder at K-State showed that a coach can build a program over several years that can become top 4 in the Big 12, even a team with marginal facilities in a state that doesn't produce many elite football players. But what Snyder did at K-State probably puts him among the 10 best all-time in college football, and almost every other coach that has done that well did so at a program with some built-in advantages that K-State and KU don't have.

It might be argued that Kansas should put the two campuses under 1 umbrella and combine the sports programs. Football and Basketball in that state would benefit from not having to split recruits.

Kansas had had success. They were top 10 in both 1994 and 2007. Had they managed to beat Missouri (and then won the Big 12 ccg), they would have likely played Ohio St. in the BCS title game in that crazy 2007 year.

The occasional big year in the rankings.

Sounds like what your run of the mill MAC program does. See Kent St 2012 or Ball St in 2008.
05-11-2018 07:28 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-10-2018 10:02 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 06:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 06:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  but very seldom does a college position coach make it big in FBS

And yet Clemson's two most successful coaches, Dabo Swinney and Danny Ford, were both position coaches when they were given the HC slot.

What Kansas should have done after the Mangino problems was go after Frank Solich. He's a successful HC everywhere he's been and his name alone would have helped recruiting in the region. He wouldn't have been a long term solution based on his age but it's not a stretch to think that he would have been able to maintain much of the momentum from the Mangino era.

That's a fair point, but both of them were position coaches who were promoted from within instead of coming from the outside. That's a much different scenario than an out-of-conference assistant taking over a bottom of the barrel P5 program that draws less than MAC teams even though they're hosting big names like Oklahoma and TCU every year.

True, but if you can coach you can coach regardless.

Like I mentioned in my first post...Kansas should have hired Solich. At the very least he doesn't lose the momentum Mangino built.

Now? Same formula. Give Bo Pelini whatever it takes to get him to Lawrence. Instant name recognition on the recruiting trail and for his faults the man can coach.

Is Kansas going to be a national power? Probably not. But there's no reason why under the right coach they couldn't do what Spurrier did at South Carolina. He only won one SEC East title but he won at a level much higher than has ever been achieved at that perennial underachiever.
05-12-2018 11:20 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Kansas Football Ticket Sales Reach Low
(05-12-2018 11:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 10:02 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 06:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-07-2018 06:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  but very seldom does a college position coach make it big in FBS

And yet Clemson's two most successful coaches, Dabo Swinney and Danny Ford, were both position coaches when they were given the HC slot.

What Kansas should have done after the Mangino problems was go after Frank Solich. He's a successful HC everywhere he's been and his name alone would have helped recruiting in the region. He wouldn't have been a long term solution based on his age but it's not a stretch to think that he would have been able to maintain much of the momentum from the Mangino era.

That's a fair point, but both of them were position coaches who were promoted from within instead of coming from the outside. That's a much different scenario than an out-of-conference assistant taking over a bottom of the barrel P5 program that draws less than MAC teams even though they're hosting big names like Oklahoma and TCU every year.

True, but if you can coach you can coach regardless.

Like I mentioned in my first post...Kansas should have hired Solich. At the very least he doesn't lose the momentum Mangino built.

Now? Same formula. Give Bo Pelini whatever it takes to get him to Lawrence. Instant name recognition on the recruiting trail and for his faults the man can coach.

Is Kansas going to be a national power? Probably not. But there's no reason why under the right coach they couldn't do what Spurrier did at South Carolina. He only won one SEC East title but he won at a level much higher than has ever been achieved at that perennial underachiever.

I'd agree with that - there's no reason KU or other underachieving P5 programs like Illinois can't win seven or eight with a bowl most years when others like Wake Forest can. Though imo I think Solich was burned by the Nebraska experience and wanted to hang out at a G5 program where he wouldn't have any real pressure, even a decade ago he was 63 and knew that the risk of flopping at a traditionally bad school like KU was way higher than Ohio not working out.

Unless Beaty goes winless this year and a few donors pony up some buyout dough however, he's probably gonna get another season or two. As mentioned earlier they inexplicably extended him through 2021 after their 2-10 season in 2016, unless his buyout is low they'll give him at least another year after this one. Frankly four or so years is what a coach needs to rebuild the Jayhawks at this point, the only problem is that it takes that amount of time to know if the coach is a dud or if they have potential to get back to respectability. If they're able to go 4-8 with a Big 12 win or two this season then it may show a bit of that, otherwise it's not very likely if they're still 1-11 in year four.
05-13-2018 10:31 AM
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