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Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-22-2018 03:11 PM)HHOOTter Wrote:  Former “Gooner” HC Barry Switzer beat 11 coaches
who eventually won a national championship
Bo Schembechler
Woody Hays
Tom Osborn
Daryl Royal
Joe Paterno
Bill McCarthney
Johnny Majors
Bobby Bowden
Jimmy Johnson
Lou Holtz
Mack Brown

Former Coach Bob Stoops
(Longest tenured coach & most wins @ OU)
Only beat 5 coaches who have won a nat’l championship
Bobby Bowden
Mack Brown
Les Miles
Jimbo Fisher
Nick Saben

My money was on Switzer.

He had a hell of a career.
05-22-2018 03:42 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-22-2018 03:33 PM)goofus Wrote:  So far if I did my counting correctly
, we have come up with the following.

Edited with updates
Bowden - 16
Osborne - 13
Paterno -13
Saban - 12
Switzer - 10
Lou Holtz - 9
Ferentz - 7
Stoops -5

Years as a D-I head coach:

Bowden - 40
Osborne - 25
Paterno - 46
Saban - 22 and counting
Switzer - 16

Makes Switzer's record look even more impressive to me.
05-22-2018 04:33 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-22-2018 03:20 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(05-22-2018 03:11 PM)HHOOTter Wrote:  Former “Gooner” HC Barry Switzer beat 11 coaches
who eventually won a national championship
Bo Schembechler
Woody Hays
Tom Osborn
Daryl Royal
Joe Paterno
Bill McCarthney
Johnny Majors
Bobby Bowden
Jimmy Johnson
Lou Holtz
Mack Brown

Former Coach Bob Stoops
(Longest tenured coach & most wins @ OU)
Only beat 5 coaches who have won a nat’l championship
Bobby Bowden
Mack Brown
Les Miles
Jimbo Fisher
Nick Saben

Schembechler never won a national title.

Bob stoops also beat Gene Chizik
05-22-2018 08:59 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
it looks as if Urban Meyer has 8....
Fullmer
Bowden
Miles
Spurrier
Tressel
Saban
Stoops
Paterno
05-22-2018 10:21 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-22-2018 02:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-22-2018 02:49 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  
(05-22-2018 02:39 PM)goofus Wrote:  I guess I could try to get it started for Paterno.

Coaches he has beat
Woody Hayes 4-2
Bobby Bowden 6-1
Bear Bryant 1-4
LaVell Edwards 2-1
Tom Osborne 2-3
Lou Holtz 6-5
Johny Majors
Lloyd Carr
Jim Tressel
Jim Dooley
Jimmy Johnson

So that's 11. I am sure there are more.

He beat Saban as well.

Bobby Ross is also on the Paterno list.

So is Fulmer. And Royal.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2018 11:41 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-24-2018 04:02 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #26
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-22-2018 03:36 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Two from Clemson

Danny Ford - 9

Woody Hayes
Dan Devine
Vince Dooley
Bobby Bowden
Steve Spurrier
Joe Paterno
Tom Osborne
Barry Switzer
Gene Stallings


Dabo Swinney - 8

Steve Spurrier
Bobby Bowden
Jimbo Fisher
Gene Chizik
Les Miles
Bob Stoops
Urban Meyer
Nick Saban

That's a very impressive number for Dabo given how young he is.
05-24-2018 06:08 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
Structural factors will influence this, beyond the quality of the coach:

1) Longevity - coaches who were around forever (Paterno, Bowden) will likely have more than guys who have had shorter careers.

2) Availability of title-winning coaches to beat: Some eras are scattershot, with no dynasties, meaning relatively lots of coaches have won titles, so the pool is larger. In contrast, if a given coach dominates titles, like Saban and Meyer have the past 10 years, winning 8 of 10 titles, then there will be fewer title-winning coaches available to beat.

E.g., it was hard for guys like Vince Lombardi and Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach to rack up wins against a lot of other title-winning coaches, because when they were coaching they won a large percentage of all the titles themselves.

3) Harder to do post-BCS: Since the BCS started 20 years ago, there have been fewer 'split' titles, meaning fewer coaches who have won, thus feeding in to a more limited pool. There has been only one case where the AP and BCS differed during the past 20 years (2003, LSU and USC), and none the past 14 seasons.

In contrast, in the 1990s it happened three times - 1990, 1991, and 1997.

This is not by accident as of course the point of the BCS and then the CFP was to match the most-highly rated teams in bowl and playoff games so as to decrease the chances of a split title, and in 2003, when we had a split with USC and LSU, the BCS formula was adjusted to make that less likely going forward, and it has worked - the 14 year stretch (and counting) since 2003 is the longest stretch ever without the AP and Coach polls disagreeing with each other.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2018 06:25 AM by quo vadis.)
05-24-2018 06:21 AM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-22-2018 01:28 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Bobby Bowden has beaten:

Dabo Swinney
Nick Saban* (2007 win was later vacated)
Joe Paterno
Steve Spurrier
Mack Brown
Tom Osborne
Johnny Majors
Howard Schnellenberger
Jimmy Johnson
Dennis Erickson
LaVell Edwards
Lou Holtz
John Robinson
Larry Coker
Ben Schwartzwalder
Danny Ford

I had to look up Ben Schwartzwalder because I had never heard of him. I knew Syracuse had won a national title and had a strong history of great running backs but I never knew who thier coach was.

On that note, looks like we can add Ben Schwartzwalder to Paterno's list too.
05-24-2018 07:44 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 06:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Structural factors will influence this, beyond the quality of the coach:

1) Longevity - coaches who were around forever (Paterno, Bowden) will likely have more than guys who have had shorter careers.

2) Availability of title-winning coaches to beat: Some eras are scattershot, with no dynasties, meaning relatively lots of coaches have won titles, so the pool is larger. In contrast, if a given coach dominates titles, like Saban and Meyer have the past 10 years, winning 8 of 10 titles, then there will be fewer title-winning coaches available to beat.

E.g., it was hard for guys like Vince Lombardi and Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach to rack up wins against a lot of other title-winning coaches, because when they were coaching they won a large percentage of all the titles themselves.

3) Harder to do post-BCS: Since the BCS started 20 years ago, there have been fewer 'split' titles, meaning fewer coaches who have won, thus feeding in to a more limited pool. There has been only one case where the AP and BCS differed during the past 20 years (2003, LSU and USC), and none the past 14 seasons.

In contrast, in the 1990s it happened three times - 1990, 1991, and 1997.

This is not by accident as of course the point of the BCS and then the CFP was to match the most-highly rated teams in bowl and playoff games so as to decrease the chances of a split title, and in 2003, when we had a split with USC and LSU, the BCS formula was adjusted to make that less likely going forward, and it has worked - the 14 year stretch (and counting) since 2003 is the longest stretch ever without the AP and Coach polls disagreeing with each other.

On the other hand, teams now play 12 regular season games, CCG, CFP semi-finals. Plus any team with 6 wins now goes to a post-season bowl game every year. Remember the days when the Big Ten would only send 1 team to a bowl, the Rose Bowl, and you couldn't go 2 years in a row?

I know bowls are a big reason how Ferentz faced so many title coaches in his career.
05-24-2018 08:03 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #30
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 08:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 06:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Structural factors will influence this, beyond the quality of the coach:

1) Longevity - coaches who were around forever (Paterno, Bowden) will likely have more than guys who have had shorter careers.

2) Availability of title-winning coaches to beat: Some eras are scattershot, with no dynasties, meaning relatively lots of coaches have won titles, so the pool is larger. In contrast, if a given coach dominates titles, like Saban and Meyer have the past 10 years, winning 8 of 10 titles, then there will be fewer title-winning coaches available to beat.

E.g., it was hard for guys like Vince Lombardi and Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach to rack up wins against a lot of other title-winning coaches, because when they were coaching they won a large percentage of all the titles themselves.

3) Harder to do post-BCS: Since the BCS started 20 years ago, there have been fewer 'split' titles, meaning fewer coaches who have won, thus feeding in to a more limited pool. There has been only one case where the AP and BCS differed during the past 20 years (2003, LSU and USC), and none the past 14 seasons.

In contrast, in the 1990s it happened three times - 1990, 1991, and 1997.

This is not by accident as of course the point of the BCS and then the CFP was to match the most-highly rated teams in bowl and playoff games so as to decrease the chances of a split title, and in 2003, when we had a split with USC and LSU, the BCS formula was adjusted to make that less likely going forward, and it has worked - the 14 year stretch (and counting) since 2003 is the longest stretch ever without the AP and Coach polls disagreeing with each other.

On the other hand, teams now play 12 regular season games, CCG, CFP semi-finals. Plus any team with 6 wins now goes to a post-season bowl game every year. Remember the days when the Big Ten would only send 1 team to a bowl, the Rose Bowl, and you couldn't go 2 years in a row?

I know bowls are a big reason how Ferentz faced so many title coaches in his career.

Good points. More games does mean more opportunities.

It would be interesting to see how many title-winning coaches there are now, compared to say 30 years ago. We could define "title winning" expansively to mean any coach whose team was voted #1 in either the AP or Coaches poll.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2018 08:10 AM by quo vadis.)
05-24-2018 08:07 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
The '90s had 3 split titles, but from '75-'89 had only 1 split title.

from '98-'17 had 13 different title winning coaches out of 21 titles won.
from '78-'97 had 21 different title winning coaches out of 24 titles won.

a lot of '98-'17 though is Nick Saban who won 6 titles. in '78-97 only coach who won more than 2 was Tom Osbourne. And only 3 other coaches won 2 titles in that period.
05-24-2018 09:46 AM
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 09:46 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The '90s had 3 split titles, but from '75-'89 had only 1 split title.

Yes, the 80s had no split titles, but the 70s had three of them.

Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

And surely, compounding that the past 10 years has been the multiple titles won by Saban and also Meyer. They've won 8 of the past 10.
05-24-2018 10:03 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 10:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

Split AP/coaches titles were rare, and only a few people really thought they were a bad thing when they happened. The BCS/CFP is a solution in search of a problem. Well, more accurately, it's a cash grab. Just in terms of having a system that's entertaining for the fans, it was an overreaction to the 1990 and 1991 seasons and not really an improvement.
05-24-2018 10:21 AM
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 10:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

Split AP/coaches titles were rare, and only a few people really thought they were a bad thing when they happened. The BCS/CFP is a solution in search of a problem. Well, more accurately, it's a cash grab. Just in terms of having a system that's entertaining for the fans, it was an overreaction to the 1990 and 1991 seasons and not really an improvement.

I don't know. Having the ability to have top 2 teams play each other unquestionably is far better than having #1 team in ACC/SEC/Big 12 and #2 team in Big Ten/Pac 12- with no way of having them play for the title. I mean in 1994 we had Nebraska and Penn St- with no way for them to settle it on the field.
05-24-2018 11:01 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 08:03 AM)goofus Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 06:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Structural factors will influence this, beyond the quality of the coach:

1) Longevity - coaches who were around forever (Paterno, Bowden) will likely have more than guys who have had shorter careers.

2) Availability of title-winning coaches to beat: Some eras are scattershot, with no dynasties, meaning relatively lots of coaches have won titles, so the pool is larger. In contrast, if a given coach dominates titles, like Saban and Meyer have the past 10 years, winning 8 of 10 titles, then there will be fewer title-winning coaches available to beat.

E.g., it was hard for guys like Vince Lombardi and Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach to rack up wins against a lot of other title-winning coaches, because when they were coaching they won a large percentage of all the titles themselves.

3) Harder to do post-BCS: Since the BCS started 20 years ago, there have been fewer 'split' titles, meaning fewer coaches who have won, thus feeding in to a more limited pool. There has been only one case where the AP and BCS differed during the past 20 years (2003, LSU and USC), and none the past 14 seasons.

In contrast, in the 1990s it happened three times - 1990, 1991, and 1997.

This is not by accident as of course the point of the BCS and then the CFP was to match the most-highly rated teams in bowl and playoff games so as to decrease the chances of a split title, and in 2003, when we had a split with USC and LSU, the BCS formula was adjusted to make that less likely going forward, and it has worked - the 14 year stretch (and counting) since 2003 is the longest stretch ever without the AP and Coach polls disagreeing with each other.

On the other hand, teams now play 12 regular season games, CCG, CFP semi-finals. Plus any team with 6 wins now goes to a post-season bowl game every year. Remember the days when the Big Ten would only send 1 team to a bowl, the Rose Bowl, and you couldn't go 2 years in a row?

I know bowls are a big reason how Ferentz faced so many title coaches in his career.

Same for Paterno, though, throughout his career. Even with a smaller schedule, the independent thing still could only go so far, and Paterno at least tried to challenge his teams with quasi-national schedules.

Bowls are where he got wins over guys like Royal, Devine, Dooley, Fulmer (x3), and Miles. That's a quarter to a third of his total.

I think it's more difficult today, regardless of the number of games, because non-conference scheduling between majors has become so issue-prone and rare. It's also more difficult because bowl arrangements steer programs into set places.
05-24-2018 12:06 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't know. Having the ability to have top 2 teams play each other unquestionably is far better than having #1 team in ACC/SEC/Big 12 and #2 team in Big Ten/Pac 12- with no way of having them play for the title. I mean in 1994 we had Nebraska and Penn St- with no way for them to settle it on the field.

Of course, today this would be settled in the Big Ten CCG even before the 2 rounds of playoff games.
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

Split AP/coaches titles were rare, and only a few people really thought they were a bad thing when they happened. The BCS/CFP is a solution in search of a problem. Well, more accurately, it's a cash grab. Just in terms of having a system that's entertaining for the fans, it was an overreaction to the 1990 and 1991 seasons and not really an improvement.

I don't know. Having the ability to have top 2 teams play each other unquestionably is far better than having #1 team in ACC/SEC/Big 12 and #2 team in Big Ten/Pac 12- with no way of having them play for the title. I mean in 1994 we had Nebraska and Penn St- with no way for them to settle it on the field.

It's better if the top priority is to have a clear #1 team more often than not.

But it's not better or worse in terms of the games being entertaining. A playoff of 8 teams or more would probably be significantly more entertaining. Just tweaking the system to make the top 2 or 4 teams in a ranking play each other in bowl games, when there were already bowl games to begin with, isn't an upgrade in the entertainment value.
05-24-2018 01:09 PM
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 10:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

Split AP/coaches titles were rare, and only a few people really thought they were a bad thing when they happened. The BCS/CFP is a solution in search of a problem. Well, more accurately, it's a cash grab. Just in terms of having a system that's entertaining for the fans, it was an overreaction to the 1990 and 1991 seasons and not really an improvement.

Disagree. It was frustrating when there were two clear-cut top teams and they couldn't play - Miami/Washington 91, Nebraska/Penn State 94, Michigan/Nebraska 97, all of those were situations that had many fans saying "wouldn't it be great if they could have played"?

And looking ahead from 1998, we never would have gotten matchups like Texas vs USC 2005 or Ohio State vs Miami 2002 without the BCS.

Obviously, college football was very popular under the pre-BCS regime, but I think most regard the BCS and its progeny as an improvement over the old poll-and-bowl system.
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Post: #39
RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

Split AP/coaches titles were rare, and only a few people really thought they were a bad thing when they happened. The BCS/CFP is a solution in search of a problem. Well, more accurately, it's a cash grab. Just in terms of having a system that's entertaining for the fans, it was an overreaction to the 1990 and 1991 seasons and not really an improvement.

Disagree. It was frustrating when there were two clear-cut top teams and they couldn't play - Miami/Washington 91, Nebraska/Penn State 94, Michigan/Nebraska 97, all of those were situations that had many fans saying "wouldn't it be great if they could have played"?

And looking ahead from 1998, we never would have gotten matchups like Texas vs USC 2005 or Ohio State vs Miami 2002 without the BCS.

Obviously, college football was very popular under the pre-BCS regime, but I think most regard the BCS and its progeny as an improvement over the old poll-and-bowl system.

Frustrating *if* your top priority is ending the season with a (mostly) undisputed #1 team.

And for every BCS-title game that was a great game, like Texas-USC, there were clunkers like Miami-Nebraska or USC-Oklahoma. Just as with pre-BCS major bowl games, there were some great games and some that turned out to be not worth watching at all.
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RE: Trivia: coach that has beat the most head coaches with national championships
(05-24-2018 02:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Bottom line is that since the BCS started there has been only 1 arguably split title in 20 years. That's clearly the least amount of split titles in any 20 year period, and that's not by accident, and we are currently at 14 years and counting since the last one. The "match 1 vs 2" concept of the BCS has clearly reduced the chances of a split title in that sense, and the CFP has done so even further - i will be shocked if anyone but the CFP winner ever gets voted #1 by the AP or Coaches poll, we'll probably never see one again.

Split AP/coaches titles were rare, and only a few people really thought they were a bad thing when they happened. The BCS/CFP is a solution in search of a problem. Well, more accurately, it's a cash grab. Just in terms of having a system that's entertaining for the fans, it was an overreaction to the 1990 and 1991 seasons and not really an improvement.

Disagree. It was frustrating when there were two clear-cut top teams and they couldn't play - Miami/Washington 91, Nebraska/Penn State 94, Michigan/Nebraska 97, all of those were situations that had many fans saying "wouldn't it be great if they could have played"?

And looking ahead from 1998, we never would have gotten matchups like Texas vs USC 2005 or Ohio State vs Miami 2002 without the BCS.

Obviously, college football was very popular under the pre-BCS regime, but I think most regard the BCS and its progeny as an improvement over the old poll-and-bowl system.

Frustrating *if* your top priority is ending the season with a (mostly) undisputed #1 team.

And for every BCS-title game that was a great game, like Texas-USC, there were clunkers like Miami-Nebraska or USC-Oklahoma. Just as with pre-BCS major bowl games, there were some great games and some that turned out to be not worth watching at all.

That's generally what sports fans want, to have a fairly clear #1 team. College football used to suck having a great regular season but then a clusterf*ck of a postseason. The more things can get settled out on the field, the better.
05-24-2018 02:33 PM
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