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OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
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pesik Offline
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OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
Proposed amendment to California state constitution would limit non-faculty salaries to $200,000, including CFB coaches

http://dailybruin.com/2018/05/23/propose...-autonomy/

Salaries could potentially be increased but it would have to be disputed in a public forum..
would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2018 09:35 PM by pesik.)
05-24-2018 09:33 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?

2. The amendment sounds like a publicity stunt, but it is still yet another illustration of how Higher Education is largely viewed as a scam by a lot of the public. The sense of respect, even admiration, that people (both in California and around the country) had for the UC and CSU systems a generation or two ago is greatly diminished now.
05-24-2018 09:48 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 09:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?

2. The amendment sounds like a publicity stunt, but it is still yet another illustration of how Higher Education is largely viewed as a scam by a lot of th7e public. The sense of respect, even admiration, that people (both in California and around the country) had for the UC and CSU systems a generation or two ago is greatly diminished now.

The problem is the rising cost of tuition (public takes notice) and the restrictions or out right cuts to education funding (academics take notice). The rising tuition makes the general public see the universities as businesses not societal institutions. The lack of funding means that many within the academic system see a competition for prioritization. This leads the public to ask where the money is going and the academics to ask where the priority is. Add a few shakes of politics and you get the coaches make too much refrain.

Never mind that division 1 athletics and success there in increase exposure, enrollment, and quality of student applicants and student life.

Also this final note; if the amendment is passed it won't make a damn bit of difference. Very little of a coaches salary is actually paid by a school. A great deal of it is paid for coaches shows, endorsements, camps, and other contractual arrangements. If I remember right OU only actually paid Bob Stoops like 220,000 a year the rest was paid through other means. This is a case of politicians not understanding how contracts can be structured.
05-24-2018 10:10 PM
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cotton1991 Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
The bulk of most coaches' salaries are paid by donors, not the state. Not sure how this bill would affect that if at all.

Tennessee has a cap on state employee salaries. Off the top of my head I believe the highest paid TN state employee is an anesthesiologist at UT Medical School who earns something like $350K. That hasn't stopped Memphis or UT from paying millions to coaches since those funds aren't state.
05-24-2018 10:23 PM
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pesik Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 09:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?

2. The amendment sounds like a publicity stunt, but it is still yet another illustration of how Higher Education is largely viewed as a scam by a lot of the public. The sense of respect, even admiration, that people (both in California and around the country) had for the UC and CSU systems a generation or two ago is greatly diminished now.

1) the law is specifically targeting the uc system...but if it passed they will definitely make a similar law (or expand this one) for all public school in cali

2) it doesnt appear to be a stunt, this was in response to the fact that the state government stating that uc budget didnt make sense and too high, they think they are spending to much.. they feel uc's admin is too powerful, limiting salaries is only a small part, the main part is that they will now have to answer to the state government about all budgetary issues and the president's powers will be drastically stripped
05-24-2018 10:32 PM
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pesik Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 10:23 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  The bulk of most coaches' salaries are paid by donors, not the state. Not sure how this bill would affect that if at all.

Tennessee has a cap on state employee salaries. Off the top of my head I believe the highest paid TN state employee is an anesthesiologist at UT Medical School who earns something like $350K. That hasn't stopped Memphis or UT from paying millions to coaches since those funds aren't state.

i bet that isnt the case for san jose and fresno state....ucla will be fine, cal is questionable but the g5 school are completely reliant on state funds ..sjsu is already struggling badly financially
05-24-2018 10:34 PM
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usffan Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 10:10 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?

2. The amendment sounds like a publicity stunt, but it is still yet another illustration of how Higher Education is largely viewed as a scam by a lot of th7e public. The sense of respect, even admiration, that people (both in California and around the country) had for the UC and CSU systems a generation or two ago is greatly diminished now.

The problem is the rising cost of tuition (public takes notice) and the restrictions or out right cuts to education funding (academics take notice). The rising tuition makes the general public see the universities as businesses not societal institutions. The lack of funding means that many within the academic system see a competition for prioritization. This leads the public to ask where the money is going and the academics to ask where the priority is. Add a few shakes of politics and you get the coaches make too much refrain.

Never mind that division 1 athletics and success there in increase exposure, enrollment, and quality of student applicants and student life.

Also this final note; if the amendment is passed it won't make a damn bit of difference. Very little of a coaches salary is actually paid by a school. A great deal of it is paid for coaches shows, endorsements, camps, and other contractual arrangements. If I remember right OU only actually paid Bob Stoops like 220,000 a year the rest was paid through other means. This is a case of politicians not understanding how contracts can be structured.

Pretty well sums it up. This won't have much of an impact (if any) on any of the athletic programs.

Here's a list of the highest salaries in the UC system in 2016 (the most recent year for which the database is complete):

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salari...alifornia/

Of course the top four listed are the football and basketball coaches at Cal and UCLA. But notice that their regular pay is low compared to their total pay. If instead you sort by "regular pay," (the amount that comes out of the state budget), it looks very different...

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salari.../?&s=-base

Notice how many administrators are making north of $500,000. You wonder why universities have much bigger budgets now even though they pretty much have the same number of faculty? Because they keep adding more administrators. Look at how many deans and associate deans there are now compared to 20 years ago...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/0...38584.html

Either way, it's not going to decimate the Pac-12 or the MWC.

USFFan
05-24-2018 11:18 PM
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 11:18 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:10 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?

2. The amendment sounds like a publicity stunt, but it is still yet another illustration of how Higher Education is largely viewed as a scam by a lot of th7e public. The sense of respect, even admiration, that people (both in California and around the country) had for the UC and CSU systems a generation or two ago is greatly diminished now.

The problem is the rising cost of tuition (public takes notice) and the restrictions or out right cuts to education funding (academics take notice). The rising tuition makes the general public see the universities as businesses not societal institutions. The lack of funding means that many within the academic system see a competition for prioritization. This leads the public to ask where the money is going and the academics to ask where the priority is. Add a few shakes of politics and you get the coaches make too much refrain.

Never mind that division 1 athletics and success there in increase exposure, enrollment, and quality of student applicants and student life.

Also this final note; if the amendment is passed it won't make a damn bit of difference. Very little of a coaches salary is actually paid by a school. A great deal of it is paid for coaches shows, endorsements, camps, and other contractual arrangements. If I remember right OU only actually paid Bob Stoops like 220,000 a year the rest was paid through other means. This is a case of politicians not understanding how contracts can be structured.

Pretty well sums it up. This won't have much of an impact (if any) on any of the athletic programs.

Here's a list of the highest salaries in the UC system in 2016 (the most recent year for which the database is complete):

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salari...alifornia/

Of course the top four listed are the football and basketball coaches at Cal and UCLA. But notice that their regular pay is low compared to their total pay. If instead you sort by "regular pay," (the amount that comes out of the state budget), it looks very different...

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salari.../?&s=-base

Notice how many administrators are making north of $500,000. You wonder why universities have much bigger budgets now even though they pretty much have the same number of faculty? Because they keep adding more administrators. Look at how many deans and associate deans there are now compared to 20 years ago...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/0...38584.html

Either way, it's not going to decimate the Pac-12 or the MWC.

USFFan

Thats what I was thinking. Booster groups would organize ways to pay coaches more. Ive always heard Sumlin was paid more than it appeared at A&M because of side deals he had with alumni groups. I suspect that happens everywhere.
05-25-2018 01:21 AM
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invisiblehand Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
I'd like to see this go into effect across the nation. There's nothing wrong with having a coaching salary cap. 200K sounds reasonable for what they do.

You can say their money comes from donors, but it's not like the donors would stop donating money to their schools just because the coach could only earn X amount of dollars. They would just donate to upgrade facilities, quality of living, quality of education, quality of athletic training. I'd rather see the money go to the athletes and the students than overpaying the coaches because of the ridiculous wage inflation we've had in the last 30 years.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 08:00 AM by invisiblehand.)
05-25-2018 07:57 AM
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 11:18 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 10:10 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?

2. The amendment sounds like a publicity stunt, but it is still yet another illustration of how Higher Education is largely viewed as a scam by a lot of th7e public. The sense of respect, even admiration, that people (both in California and around the country) had for the UC and CSU systems a generation or two ago is greatly diminished now.

The problem is the rising cost of tuition (public takes notice) and the restrictions or out right cuts to education funding (academics take notice). The rising tuition makes the general public see the universities as businesses not societal institutions. The lack of funding means that many within the academic system see a competition for prioritization. This leads the public to ask where the money is going and the academics to ask where the priority is. Add a few shakes of politics and you get the coaches make too much refrain.

Never mind that division 1 athletics and success there in increase exposure, enrollment, and quality of student applicants and student life.

Also this final note; if the amendment is passed it won't make a damn bit of difference. Very little of a coaches salary is actually paid by a school. A great deal of it is paid for coaches shows, endorsements, camps, and other contractual arrangements. If I remember right OU only actually paid Bob Stoops like 220,000 a year the rest was paid through other means. This is a case of politicians not understanding how contracts can be structured.

Pretty well sums it up. This won't have much of an impact (if any) on any of the athletic programs.

Here's a list of the highest salaries in the UC system in 2016 (the most recent year for which the database is complete):

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salari...alifornia/

Of course the top four listed are the football and basketball coaches at Cal and UCLA. But notice that their regular pay is low compared to their total pay. If instead you sort by "regular pay," (the amount that comes out of the state budget), it looks very different...

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salari.../?&s=-base

Notice how many administrators are making north of $500,000. You wonder why universities have much bigger budgets now even though they pretty much have the same number of faculty? Because they keep adding more administrators. Look at how many deans and associate deans there are now compared to 20 years ago...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/0...38584.html

Either way, it's not going to decimate the Pac-12 or the MWC.

USFFan

I don't believe the adminstration is the problem here either it's just a good talking point. In particular one conservatives love to use against government and education.

20 years ago there were a lot fewer students in university. To be honest having sat in class and taken a lecture with 400 students and having taken a lecture with 22 students of even 10 I can tell you there is little difference for the student or the professor. Other than grading and personal time which can be subbed in by grad students as teacher assistants an increase in students doesn't require an increase in instructors.

However those new students will need housing, admistrtive services, grants, scholarships, support services, health services, etc. Things that require a more complicated structure than faculty and Dean.

The truth is it just cost money. Many states are below actual funding from the great recession and some like Oklahoma are below where they were at the turn of the century. This case is slightly different in that UC overestimated their cost and created a nearly 200 million surplus, which should be rolled into funding costs for the next year or returned to the state, but is just UC's now.

Either way this is unlikely to pass. A 2/3 legislature vote and an election seem a high bar to get over.
05-25-2018 10:11 AM
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
It'll never happen.

Even if it would pass, lawyers will find loopholes and ways to get around it. They always do.
05-25-2018 11:27 AM
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usffan Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-25-2018 10:11 AM)TU4ever Wrote:  To be honest having sat in class and taken a lecture with 400 students and having taken a lecture with 22 students of even 10 I can tell you there is little difference for the student or the professor. Other than grading and personal time which can be subbed in by grad students as teacher assistants an increase in students doesn't require an increase in instructors.

As somebody who has given lectures to 400 students, 22 students and even 10 students, I can tell you that there's a huge difference for the professor.

I think we'll agree to disagree about how much the bloated administration adds to a student's overall education/experience.

USFFan
05-25-2018 03:15 PM
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Niner National Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
Isn't this normal anyway? In nc our coaches are capped at something like $250k from the state as an employee. The rest comes from booster clubs, endorsements, speaking engagements, etc.
05-26-2018 05:54 PM
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-24-2018 10:32 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:48 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 09:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  would affect ucla, cal, san jose and fresno state immediately and potentially sdsu if it becomes a state wide precedent
1. How could Cal State campuses (Fresno, San Diego, San Jose) be treated differently by this?
1) the law is specifically targeting the uc system...but if it passed they will definitely make a similar law (or expand this one) for all public school in cali
Yeah but how could it impact SJSU/Fresno “immediately”, yet SDSU only “potentially”? In other words, how is San Diego State in a different boat than the other two?
05-26-2018 09:38 PM
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-25-2018 10:11 AM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 11:18 PM)usffan Wrote:  Notice how many administrators are making north of $500,000. You wonder why universities have much bigger budgets now even though they pretty much have the same number of faculty? Because they keep adding more administrators. Look at how many deans and associate deans there are now compared to 20 years ago...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/0...38584.html

I don't believe the adminstration is the problem here either it's just a good talking point. In particular one conservatives love to use against government and education.
What is the “talking point” you’re referring to?
05-26-2018 09:54 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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RE: OT: New proposed California law could decimate the Pac-12/MWC
(05-26-2018 09:54 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 10:11 AM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(05-24-2018 11:18 PM)usffan Wrote:  Notice how many administrators are making north of $500,000. You wonder why universities have much bigger budgets now even though they pretty much have the same number of faculty? Because they keep adding more administrators. Look at how many deans and associate deans there are now compared to 20 years ago...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/0...38584.html

I don't believe the adminstration is the problem here either it's just a good talking point. In particular one conservatives love to use against government and education.
What is the “talking point” you’re referring to?


The one on limiting Administrative pay because the budget is out of control. There were several issues wrapped into the pay and the budget surplus. It is also a strong talking point in many of the education spending debates as well as being brought up by the poster I was replying too.
05-26-2018 10:16 PM
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