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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #1
P5 Distributions
Quote:Steve Berkowitz
‏Verified account @ByBerkowitz
27m27 minutes ago

Power 5 conference per-school distributions for FY17:
--SEC: $42.M to $39.9M
--Big Ten: $37.2M to $37M
--Big 12: Roughly $34.3M per school except Baylor
--Pac-12: $30.9M per school
--ACC: $30.7M to $25.3M except Notre Dame


A few thoughts:
1) What I see here is clustering. Being last sucks but there's not that much difference between first and last. The ACC network won't have to be that all that successful to move the ACC well up this list.
2) Why the large spread in ACC distributions? I thought you got a little more for going to a bowl game but that was it. Were the newer members still getting reduced distributions in 2017?
3) Haven't we heard that the B12, at least, plays games with the numbers it releases? Including funds used for conference operations as if they were distributed to the schools? Or perhaps they distribute the funds but take them back as conference dues just to make their numbers look more impressive than they are? Do any other conferences, like the PAC, do this sort of thing?
05-25-2018 12:59 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #2
RE: P5 Distributions
Regarding the second part of point #2, I am almost sure that the newer members get a full share from day one. Cant comment on the other points.
05-25-2018 01:30 PM
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4x4hokies Offline
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Post: #3
RE: P5 Distributions
Seems like Swofford said one time that the ACC pays for championship appearance costs for schools while in other conferences the schools pay for these costs. So their distribution might look larger but they have higher expenses. With the PAC12 there was talk about their in stadium advertising being controlled by the conference whereas in the ACC most schools have deals with IMG or similar.

So all distributions aren't created exactly the same. There's no way that I've seen to adjust conferences to a common base.
05-25-2018 02:21 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #4
RE: P5 Distributions
The total spread potential there is ... more shocking than at first blush. Worst case you could be an ACC school ($25m) outgunned by a SEC school ($42m) in state by almost $20m a year just in TV money. Best possible case you'd still be outgunned by $10m a year. Split the difference ... $17.5m is a SERIOUS deficit.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 02:42 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
05-25-2018 02:42 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #5
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 02:42 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The total spread potential there is ... more shocking than at first blush. Worst case you could be an ACC school ($25m) outgunned by a SEC school ($42m) in state by almost $20m a year just in TV money. Best possible case you'd still be outgunned by $10m a year. Split the difference ... $17.5m is a SERIOUS deficit.

There may be a lot of ACC schools between $25 and $27 million.

Quote:Mark Armstrong
‏ @ArmstrongABC11
52m52 minutes ago

Triangle schools revenue payouts from ACC for FY 16-17:

Duke: $25,396,651
NC State: $26,467,687
UNC: $27,024,611
05-25-2018 03:02 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #6
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 03:02 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  There may be a lot of ACC schools between $25 and $27 million.

Quote:Mark Armstrong
‏ @ArmstrongABC11
52m52 minutes ago

Triangle schools revenue payouts from ACC for FY 16-17:

Duke: $25,396,651
NC State: $26,467,687
UNC: $27,024,611



This is very bad. The ACCN could deliver $5m/year/team .... and the ACC could still be last.

The ACCN has the very stability of the league riding on it. The conference broke up the footprint (Syracuse/BC/Pitt/ND/Miami). The conference even broke up the academic standards (Louisville, though they're working on it etc etc). This was done to focus on EXCLUSIVELY TV markets for football (NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Miami, Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach, Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York, Louisville, Buffalo, Wilkes Barre-Scranton-Hazleton, Rochester, South Bend-Elkhart, Syracuse are all Top 100 markets). It did this from a position of DOMINANT STRENGTH in 2003 as the best football conference top to bottom and highest paying league in TV money. That's an awful lot of failure to drop at the feet of Swofford.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 03:17 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
05-25-2018 03:06 PM
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nole Offline
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Post: #7
RE: P5 Distributions
Revenue issue a big one for the ACC. Let's drop expanding the NCAA tourney and focus on this one.
05-25-2018 03:10 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #8
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 03:10 PM)nole Wrote:  Revenue issue a big one for the ACC. Let's drop expanding the NCAA tourney and focus on this one.

I think it's possible to talk about more than one thing at a time, not that I'm a fan of expanding the NCAA men's basketball tournament. Also, it's not like the ACC has been ignoring the subject of revenues.
05-25-2018 03:25 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #9
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 03:06 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  It did this from a position of DOMINANT STRENGTH in 2003 as the best football conference top to bottom

let me slow eye roll ya ...
think back ...
it was fsu & the 8 dwarfs ...
hardly, a winning recipe going forward ...

WOAH NELLY
05-25-2018 03:37 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #10
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 03:37 PM)green Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 03:06 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  It did this from a position of DOMINANT STRENGTH in 2003 as the best football conference top to bottom

let me slow eye roll ya ...
think back ...
it was fsu & the 8 dwarfs ...
hardly, a winning recipe going forward ...

WOAH NELLY


Go look up the Sagarin conference rankings for 2003. Then holla back.

SWAG OUT. MIC DROPPED.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 03:40 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
05-25-2018 03:39 PM
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green Offline
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RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 03:39 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  the Sagarin conference rankings

outside of the mid atlantic ...
and inside network boardrooms ...
the sagarin conference rankings register a yawn ...

SASSAFRAS
05-25-2018 03:52 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #12
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 12:59 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
Quote:Steve Berkowitz
‏Verified account @ByBerkowitz
27m27 minutes ago

Power 5 conference per-school distributions for FY17:
--SEC: $42.M to $39.9M
--Big Ten: $37.2M to $37M
--Big 12: Roughly $34.3M per school except Baylor
--Pac-12: $30.9M per school
--ACC: $30.7M to $25.3M except Notre Dame


A few thoughts:
1) What I see here is clustering. Being last sucks but there's not that much difference between first and last. The ACC network won't have to be that all that successful to move the ACC well up this list.
2) Why the large spread in ACC distributions? I thought you got a little more for going to a bowl game but that was it. Were the newer members still getting reduced distributions in 2017?
3) Haven't we heard that the B12, at least, plays games with the numbers it releases? Including funds used for conference operations as if they were distributed to the schools? Or perhaps they distribute the funds but take them back as conference dues just to make their numbers look more impressive than they are? Do any other conferences, like the PAC, do this sort of thing?

As to point #3 about the Big 12 the news there is actually that they don't play games with their numbers. The 34.3 million is all that their conference distributes and it is equal shares now that the buyins of T.C.U. and West Virginia have normalized. Baylor's is less I believe because of fines imposed by the conference for their scandal. A Big 12 person might provide more clarity on that.

The problem with the Big 12 numbers is that their T3 revenue is independent of the conference and therefore every schools is different. So to figure the Big 12's total media revenue you have to look up each individual school's tax filings and not just those of the conference.

Texas made 34.3 from the conference. They pulled down a little more than 14 million from the LHN and they probably finished around 50 million for the year. The Sooners earn 7 million for T3 but they front overhead. So probably in the range of 38 million. Kansas does the same and they are likely knocking down close to 37 or 38 after costs as well. It is reported that WVU makes around 7 also, but I have never seen their terms and don't know what is deducted in expenses there if any. The rest reportedly make under 3 million. So the real totals of the Big 12 would range from 36 million to 50 million.
05-25-2018 04:00 PM
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Post: #13
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 04:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 12:59 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
Quote:Steve Berkowitz
‏Verified account @ByBerkowitz
27m27 minutes ago

Power 5 conference per-school distributions for FY17:
--SEC: $42.M to $39.9M
--Big Ten: $37.2M to $37M
--Big 12: Roughly $34.3M per school except Baylor
--Pac-12: $30.9M per school
--ACC: $30.7M to $25.3M except Notre Dame


A few thoughts:
1) What I see here is clustering. Being last sucks but there's not that much difference between first and last. The ACC network won't have to be that all that successful to move the ACC well up this list.
2) Why the large spread in ACC distributions? I thought you got a little more for going to a bowl game but that was it. Were the newer members still getting reduced distributions in 2017?
3) Haven't we heard that the B12, at least, plays games with the numbers it releases? Including funds used for conference operations as if they were distributed to the schools? Or perhaps they distribute the funds but take them back as conference dues just to make their numbers look more impressive than they are? Do any other conferences, like the PAC, do this sort of thing?

As to point #3 about the Big 12 the news there is actually that they don't play games with their numbers. The 34.3 million is all that their conference distributes and it is equal shares now that the buyins of T.C.U. and West Virginia have normalized. Baylor's is less I believe because of fines imposed by the conference for their scandal. A Big 12 person might provide more clarity on that.

The problem with the Big 12 numbers is that their T3 revenue is independent of the conference and therefore every schools is different. So to figure the Big 12's total media revenue you have to look up each individual school's tax filings and not just those of the conference.

Texas made 34.3 from the conference. They pulled down a little more than 14 million from the LHN and they probably finished around 50 million for the year. The Sooners earn 7 million for T3 but they front overhead. So probably in the range of 38 million. Kansas does the same and they are likely knocking down close to 37 or 38 after costs as well. It is reported that WVU makes around 7 also, but I have never seen their terms and don't know what is deducted in expenses there if any. The rest reportedly make under 3 million. So the real totals of the Big 12 would range from 36 million to 50 million.

The problem with Tier 3 is it is full of kook $. When people talk about Tier 3, it typically includes everything: radio, promotions, sponsorships, stadium signage, along with the gazillions promised by mostly worthless left over event broadcast rights. Every major school has similar tier 3 financial deals except for UT having the LHN.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 04:37 PM by CrazyPaco.)
05-25-2018 04:24 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 03:02 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 02:42 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The total spread potential there is ... more shocking than at first blush. Worst case you could be an ACC school ($25m) outgunned by a SEC school ($42m) in state by almost $20m a year just in TV money. Best possible case you'd still be outgunned by $10m a year. Split the difference ... $17.5m is a SERIOUS deficit.

There may be a lot of ACC schools between $25 and $27 million.

Quote:Mark Armstrong
‏ @ArmstrongABC11
52m52 minutes ago

Triangle schools revenue payouts from ACC for FY 16-17:

Duke: $25,396,651
NC State: $26,467,687
UNC: $27,024,611

Per David Teel: FY17 ACC Revenue was up 12% to $418.1M which was 4th among P5 (ahead of B12), but average distribution to 14 (non-ND) members was $26.6M. That does not include $14.4M distributed for championship expenses.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 04:31 PM by CrazyPaco.)
05-25-2018 04:28 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #15
RE: P5 Distributions
I'm just happy my projections were so close!

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2017/...-2017.html

Conf: Projected : Reported*
SEC : $43 M : $41 M
B1G : $43 M : $37 M
XII : $33 M : $34 M
Pac : $31 M : $31 M
ACC : $28 M : $27 M

Man, I'm good!

That being the case, I projected $32M for 2017-18 (and again for 2018-19), then first year of ACC Network revenue (2019-20) I'm saying now: $41M each.

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2018/...16-17.html
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 04:41 PM by Hokie Mark.)
05-25-2018 04:38 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #16
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 04:24 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 04:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 12:59 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
Quote:Steve Berkowitz
‏Verified account @ByBerkowitz
27m27 minutes ago

Power 5 conference per-school distributions for FY17:
--SEC: $42.M to $39.9M
--Big Ten: $37.2M to $37M
--Big 12: Roughly $34.3M per school except Baylor
--Pac-12: $30.9M per school
--ACC: $30.7M to $25.3M except Notre Dame


A few thoughts:
1) What I see here is clustering. Being last sucks but there's not that much difference between first and last. The ACC network won't have to be that all that successful to move the ACC well up this list.
2) Why the large spread in ACC distributions? I thought you got a little more for going to a bowl game but that was it. Were the newer members still getting reduced distributions in 2017?
3) Haven't we heard that the B12, at least, plays games with the numbers it releases? Including funds used for conference operations as if they were distributed to the schools? Or perhaps they distribute the funds but take them back as conference dues just to make their numbers look more impressive than they are? Do any other conferences, like the PAC, do this sort of thing?

As to point #3 about the Big 12 the news there is actually that they don't play games with their numbers. The 34.3 million is all that their conference distributes and it is equal shares now that the buyins of T.C.U. and West Virginia have normalized. Baylor's is less I believe because of fines imposed by the conference for their scandal. A Big 12 person might provide more clarity on that.

The problem with the Big 12 numbers is that their T3 revenue is independent of the conference and therefore every schools is different. So to figure the Big 12's total media revenue you have to look up each individual school's tax filings and not just those of the conference.

Texas made 34.3 from the conference. They pulled down a little more than 14 million from the LHN and they probably finished around 50 million for the year. The Sooners earn 7 million for T3 but they front overhead. So probably in the range of 38 million. Kansas does the same and they are likely knocking down close to 37 or 38 after costs as well. It is reported that WVU makes around 7 also, but I have never seen their terms and don't know what is deducted in expenses there if any. The rest reportedly make under 3 million. So the real totals of the Big 12 would range from 36 million to 50 million.

The problem with Tier 3 is it is full of kook $. When people talk about Tier 3, it typically includes everything: radio, promotions, sponsorships, stadium signage, along with the gazillions promised by mostly worthless left over event broadcast rights. Every major school has similar tier 3 financial deals except for UT having the LHN.

Do you want to dispute the LHN payout which now averages over 15 million a year, or the 7 million dollar T3 deal that FOX signed with OU, or the 7 million T3 deal ESPN signed with Kansas? Granted who knows how WVU cooks it but the biggest earners aren't fudging any numbers just to make you feel worse or them better. And as I said the rest of them are under 3 million. I think Iowa State makes a little over 2 with some kind of in state network.

But the point stands. Their conference distributed an average of 34.3 and their T3 private contracts are an addition to that figure.
05-25-2018 04:53 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #17
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 04:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 04:24 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 04:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 12:59 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
Quote:Steve Berkowitz
‏Verified account @ByBerkowitz
27m27 minutes ago

Power 5 conference per-school distributions for FY17:
--SEC: $42.M to $39.9M
--Big Ten: $37.2M to $37M
--Big 12: Roughly $34.3M per school except Baylor
--Pac-12: $30.9M per school
--ACC: $30.7M to $25.3M except Notre Dame


A few thoughts:
1) What I see here is clustering. Being last sucks but there's not that much difference between first and last. The ACC network won't have to be that all that successful to move the ACC well up this list.
2) Why the large spread in ACC distributions? I thought you got a little more for going to a bowl game but that was it. Were the newer members still getting reduced distributions in 2017?
3) Haven't we heard that the B12, at least, plays games with the numbers it releases? Including funds used for conference operations as if they were distributed to the schools? Or perhaps they distribute the funds but take them back as conference dues just to make their numbers look more impressive than they are? Do any other conferences, like the PAC, do this sort of thing?

As to point #3 about the Big 12 the news there is actually that they don't play games with their numbers. The 34.3 million is all that their conference distributes and it is equal shares now that the buyins of T.C.U. and West Virginia have normalized. Baylor's is less I believe because of fines imposed by the conference for their scandal. A Big 12 person might provide more clarity on that.

The problem with the Big 12 numbers is that their T3 revenue is independent of the conference and therefore every schools is different. So to figure the Big 12's total media revenue you have to look up each individual school's tax filings and not just those of the conference.

Texas made 34.3 from the conference. They pulled down a little more than 14 million from the LHN and they probably finished around 50 million for the year. The Sooners earn 7 million for T3 but they front overhead. So probably in the range of 38 million. Kansas does the same and they are likely knocking down close to 37 or 38 after costs as well. It is reported that WVU makes around 7 also, but I have never seen their terms and don't know what is deducted in expenses there if any. The rest reportedly make under 3 million. So the real totals of the Big 12 would range from 36 million to 50 million.

The problem with Tier 3 is it is full of kook $. When people talk about Tier 3, it typically includes everything: radio, promotions, sponsorships, stadium signage, along with the gazillions promised by mostly worthless left over event broadcast rights. Every major school has similar tier 3 financial deals except for UT having the LHN.

Do you want to dispute the LHN payout which now averages over 15 million a year, or the 7 million dollar T3 deal that FOX signed with OU, or the 7 million T3 deal ESPN signed with Kansas? Granted who knows how WVU cooks it but the biggest earners aren't fudging any numbers just to make you feel worse or them better. And as I said the rest of them are under 3 million. I think Iowa State makes a little over 2 with some kind of in state network.

But the point stands. Their conference distributed an average of 34.3 and their T3 private contracts are an addition to that figure.

The B12 nearly came apart over conference revenues not too long ago. There’s nothing odd about wondering whether there’s anything wrong with their numbers. If they’re telling me Iowa State has more TV revenues than UNC or FSU, I have some reason to be skeptical.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 05:04 PM by Hallcity.)
05-25-2018 05:01 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: P5 Distributions
(05-25-2018 05:01 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 04:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 04:24 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 04:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-25-2018 12:59 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  A few thoughts:
1) What I see here is clustering. Being last sucks but there's not that much difference between first and last. The ACC network won't have to be that all that successful to move the ACC well up this list.
2) Why the large spread in ACC distributions? I thought you got a little more for going to a bowl game but that was it. Were the newer members still getting reduced distributions in 2017?
3) Haven't we heard that the B12, at least, plays games with the numbers it releases? Including funds used for conference operations as if they were distributed to the schools? Or perhaps they distribute the funds but take them back as conference dues just to make their numbers look more impressive than they are? Do any other conferences, like the PAC, do this sort of thing?

As to point #3 about the Big 12 the news there is actually that they don't play games with their numbers. The 34.3 million is all that their conference distributes and it is equal shares now that the buyins of T.C.U. and West Virginia have normalized. Baylor's is less I believe because of fines imposed by the conference for their scandal. A Big 12 person might provide more clarity on that.

The problem with the Big 12 numbers is that their T3 revenue is independent of the conference and therefore every schools is different. So to figure the Big 12's total media revenue you have to look up each individual school's tax filings and not just those of the conference.

Texas made 34.3 from the conference. They pulled down a little more than 14 million from the LHN and they probably finished around 50 million for the year. The Sooners earn 7 million for T3 but they front overhead. So probably in the range of 38 million. Kansas does the same and they are likely knocking down close to 37 or 38 after costs as well. It is reported that WVU makes around 7 also, but I have never seen their terms and don't know what is deducted in expenses there if any. The rest reportedly make under 3 million. So the real totals of the Big 12 would range from 36 million to 50 million.

The problem with Tier 3 is it is full of kook $. When people talk about Tier 3, it typically includes everything: radio, promotions, sponsorships, stadium signage, along with the gazillions promised by mostly worthless left over event broadcast rights. Every major school has similar tier 3 financial deals except for UT having the LHN.

Do you want to dispute the LHN payout which now averages over 15 million a year, or the 7 million dollar T3 deal that FOX signed with OU, or the 7 million T3 deal ESPN signed with Kansas? Granted who knows how WVU cooks it but the biggest earners aren't fudging any numbers just to make you feel worse or them better. And as I said the rest of them are under 3 million. I think Iowa State makes a little over 2 with some kind of in state network.

But the point stands. Their conference distributed an average of 34.3 and their T3 private contracts are an addition to that figure.

The B12 nearly came apart over conference revenues not too long ago. There’s nothing odd about wondering whether there’s anything wrong with their numbers. If they’re telling me Iowa State has more TV revenues than UNC or FSU, I have some reason to be skeptical.

Yeah they nearly came apart when there was no revenue sharing. Now their T1 & T2 is shared. What they adopted was the SEC's model prior to the SECN. The SEC kept their own T3 separately prior to the SECN. That's what the Big 12 does now.

BTW: Iowa State had more TV revenue for T1 & T2 alone than Clemson, North Carolina, or Florida State earned for all of their tiers of rights. Their in state network was just a bonus.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 05:14 PM by JRsec.)
05-25-2018 05:13 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #19
RE: P5 Distributions
I don't think everyone yet understands just how bad the 2010 ACC TV contract was relative to the other power conference contracts... I feel like the ACC is on track to fix it, but still years away from truly being paid what they deserve... and make no mistake, this IS due to poor negotiating in the past.
05-25-2018 05:37 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #20
P5 Distributions
If you want to delve into T3 rights then you have to add them for everyone. Louisville has a deal, for instance, to broadcast basketball & football games, coaches shows, radio, etc. How about licensing, advertising, apparel, etc?

http://gocards.com/news/2016/4/28/athlet...media.aspx


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(This post was last modified: 05-25-2018 05:49 PM by Lenvillecards.)
05-25-2018 05:46 PM
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