(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

(06-12-2018 05:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

David, Rules were different then. Yes anything can happen but not unless the NCAA decides to change the rules again and I don’t see that happening. The NCAA isn’t going to change the rules every time you, I are are anyone else makes a crazy suggestion. Or because things were like that in the past. Sports would be in a bad shape if you was in charge.

As my grandma always said, you can't fix stupid. We've gone on 11 pages of this, time to move along...

(06-12-2018 06:59 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  As my grandma always said, you can't fix stupid. We've gone on 11 pages of this, time to move along...

Move on? Did you say "move on"? We won't move on until we decide to move on! Did we move on when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

(06-12-2018 05:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

UNLV became a Division I school in 1978. Get your facts straight.

(06-12-2018 08:48 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 05:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

UNLV became a Division I school in 1978. Get your facts straight.

Actually, UNLV was never D2. They were in the WCC in 1969-75 (when it was known as the West Coast Athletic Conference) and reached their first Final Four in the 1976-77 season.

(06-12-2018 11:12 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 08:48 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 05:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

UNLV became a Division I school in 1978. Get your facts straight.

Actually, UNLV was never D2. They were in the WCC in 1969-75 (when it was known as the West Coast Athletic Conference) and reached their first Final Four in the 1976-77 season.

UNLV moved to D1 football in 1978
http://www.unlvrebels.com/trads/unlv-tra...?315845640

They played D2 football and were D1 in all other sports. They left the small college division around 68/69 somewhere in that time frame.

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

The MAC took D2 upgrades in the 70’s, like CMU, EMU, NIU and Ball St. EMU was a major mistake as Michigan so dominated that area and EMU has never had even regional support.

Grand Rapids does not have its own team so Grand Valley St would make more sense than EMU’s forty-five years of futility. But the NCAA move-up rules now make that impossible.

(06-12-2018 01:35 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

The MAC took D2 upgrades in the 70’s, like CMU, EMU, NIU and Ball St. EMU was a major mistake as Michigan so dominated that area and EMU has never had even regional support.

In the 70's the division classifications were fairly fluid with schools deciding if they have the chops for big time athletics.

This is totally different from where we are today 30+ years after implementing a 64+ march madness tournament. We've seen a huge amount of consolidation into more powerful conferences.

The MAC can't change the strategic balance of power with the B1G, but it can change it against the other D1 conferences in its region and against other G5 conferences by choosing to expand or not. This is my point here.

(06-12-2018 12:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 11:12 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 08:48 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 05:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 03:01 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MAC is a Division 1 conference.

Its concerns are that of a D1 conference, namely how to get more and the most out of its post season bids. That is why I am proposing a higher saturation within its D1 footprint to squash out the competition.

D2 upgrades are just not going to do anything for the MAC. Nor will the addition of token FCS members outside of the footprint.

It has to be G5 schools that will change the balance of G5 power or basketball schools that will do the same IMO.

Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

UNLV became a Division I school in 1978. Get your facts straight.

Actually, UNLV was never D2. They were in the WCC in 1969-75 (when it was known as the West Coast Athletic Conference) and reached their first Final Four in the 1976-77 season.

UNLV moved to D1 football in 1978
http://www.unlvrebels.com/trads/unlv-tra...?315845640

They played D2 football and were D1 in all other sports. They left the small college division around 68/69 somewhere in that time frame.

Thanks, I only looked at men's basketball. I went back and did better research. UNLV left the small college division in 1969 when they joined the WCC. The first football season was 1968. I would consider UNLV to have been a D1 school since 1969 because that is where men's basketball played. Football moved up in 1978, as you said. It was during this time that schools could play in multiple divisions. If memory serves, wasn't Dayton a D1 school but football played in D3 and an NCAA rule change forced football to D1 spawning the creation of the Pioneer League?

(06-12-2018 01:53 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 12:37 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 11:12 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 08:48 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 05:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Never gonna happen.

As for D2 schools moving up? UNLV was a D2 independent until 1982 when they got an invite to the Big West Conference which leaped over !AA at the time.

So anything can happen.

UNLV became a Division I school in 1978. Get your facts straight.

Actually, UNLV was never D2. They were in the WCC in 1969-75 (when it was known as the West Coast Athletic Conference) and reached their first Final Four in the 1976-77 season.

UNLV moved to D1 football in 1978
http://www.unlvrebels.com/trads/unlv-tra...?315845640

They played D2 football and were D1 in all other sports. They left the small college division around 68/69 somewhere in that time frame.

Thanks, I only looked at men's basketball. I went back and did better research. UNLV left the small college division in 1969 when they joined the WCC. The first football season was 1968. I would consider UNLV to have been a D1 school since 1969 because that is where men's basketball played. Football moved up in 1978, as you said. It was during this time that schools could play in multiple divisions. If memory serves, wasn't Dayton a D1 school but football played in D3 and an NCAA rule change forced football to D1 spawning the creation of the Pioneer League?

Yeah, until 1993 you could be D1 in all sports but D3 in football so long as it was non-scholarship. When the NCAA ended that loophole, as you pointed out, the Pioneer came into being. Based on a very cursory reading of the Wikipedia page, it appears that Dayton (in 1980 and 1989) was the only D1 school to win a D3 football title; the Flyers also lost in the title game three other times.

There was also a movement to add I-AAA in the late 80s to separate the D1 non-scholarship programs from both D3 and I-AA. The AD at Old Dominion, which was considering adding the sport at that level, was one of the architects.

(06-12-2018 07:35 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-12-2018 06:59 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  As my grandma always said, you can't fix stupid. We've gone on 11 pages of this, time to move along...

Move on? Did you say "move on"? We won't move on until we decide to move on! Did we move on when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

If David turns out to be Belushi then I'll recant. Nevertheless, threads like this make up the majority of the "you know it's June when..." jokes on college football discussion sites.

Well, sources say that UNLV was a D2 Independent before moving into the Big West.

At that time, you had schools at the D1 level playing football at a lower level. When the rules came about? You had schools grandfathered in like the hockey and LAX that have played one sport at the D1 level, but their other sports at D2 or D3. The rules came about that you can't play football at a lower level and be D1. So, a lot of changes been ,ade. How many d2 and D3 programs back in the 1980s qho played a sport at d1 decides to bring all pf their sports to D1?

(06-12-2018 10:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Well, sources say that UNLV was a D2 Independent before moving into the Big West.

Sources say that you are wrong as usual.

Straight from the school's athletic site

Quote:Moving to Division One in football in time for the 1978 season, UNLV would become a member of the Big West Conference (originally called the PCAA) in 1982.

http://www.unlvrebels.com/trads/unlv-tra...?315845640