(05-28-2018 08:13 PM)nole Wrote:  [quote='XLance' pid='15318622' dateline='1527536998']
When Florida State first joined the ACC their athletic department was limited.
In 1998 they started women's soccer (funded with football money) as their 17th varsity sport. In less than twenty years the 'noles had played in the national championship game three times and had one national championship

Florida State could have remained a football/baseball school but when they joined the ACC they committed to expanding their athletic offerings and they have succeeded very well as witnessed by their women's soccer program.

If you want FSU to stay stagnant in athletics, pump all of your money into football, otherwise know that that football money has funded a top level athletic program that all FSU fans can be proud of.
[/quote


FSU has no choice. It will pump the $$$ football demands then do it's best to be well rounded.

Being $15-$20 Milion behind SEC teams will cause tough decisions to be made. It isn't a moral or sport against sport decision. It is a logical decision.

FSU doesn't have UNC $$$. It will be forced to make difficult decisions. If UNC did, it wouldn't short Basketball. FSU won't short football until there is no $. But current AD might try for a short term to do this, but in the end, football will require funds.


Making the hard decisions isn't 'stagnant' it is simple an accounting requirement to balance the books.

IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 07:43 AM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  https://twitter.com/FSULacrosse/status/1...02113?s=19

FSU at least thinking about bringing up their program. Probably start with women's and maybe men's.

I don't mind women's lacrosse, but I don't really want the "football first" schools spending money on men's lacrosse - they need to focus available funds on football!

ND does both, and hockey too.

It can be done, no problem.

I'm sure it can... but then we'll all have to listen to Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:13 PM)nole Wrote:  [quote='XLance' pid='15318622' dateline='1527536998']
When Florida State first joined the ACC their athletic department was limited.
In 1998 they started women's soccer (funded with football money) as their 17th varsity sport. In less than twenty years the 'noles had played in the national championship game three times and had one national championship

Florida State could have remained a football/baseball school but when they joined the ACC they committed to expanding their athletic offerings and they have succeeded very well as witnessed by their women's soccer program.

If you want FSU to stay stagnant in athletics, pump all of your money into football, otherwise know that that football money has funded a top level athletic program that all FSU fans can be proud of.
[/quote


FSU has no choice. It will pump the $$$ football demands then do it's best to be well rounded.

Being $15-$20 Milion behind SEC teams will cause tough decisions to be made. It isn't a moral or sport against sport decision. It is a logical decision.

FSU doesn't have UNC $$$. It will be forced to make difficult decisions. If UNC did, it wouldn't short Basketball. FSU won't short football until there is no $. But current AD might try for a short term to do this, but in the end, football will require funds.


Making the hard decisions isn't 'stagnant' it is simple an accounting requirement to balance the books.

IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

In 2016, UNC has an athletic endowment of $210 Million. FSU had an athletic endowment of $53 Million.

In 2017 UNC had an endowment of $3.03 Billion . FSU had an endowment of $639 Million.


The variation in wealth between UNC and FSU is MASSIVE.

(05-28-2018 08:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I don't mind women's lacrosse, but I don't really want the "football first" schools spending money on men's lacrosse - they need to focus available funds on football!

ND does both, and hockey too.

It can be done, no problem.

I'm sure it can... but then we'll all have to listen to Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

Different Mark.

Facts shouldn't upset you. If they do upset you, don't read the post with them. No need to be emotional.

(05-28-2018 09:05 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  ND does both, and hockey too.

It can be done, no problem.

I'm sure it can... but then we'll all have to listen to Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

Different Mark.

Facts shouldn't upset you. If they do upset you, don't read the post with them. No need to be emotional.

It was a joke...

Seriously though...I understand where you are coming from however, lacrosse is only 12.6 scholarships for men and I think 11.6 for women. The men's sport is actually fun to watch and an event that you can tailgate before. The game generally lasts 2 hours plus/minus 5 mins. FSU can become a decent power in the game as there are plenty of players in FL/GA plus they should be able to lure NE kids down to play.

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

I'd rather them or someone else do gymnastics. ACC needs one more.

(05-28-2018 09:12 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:05 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'm sure it can... but then we'll all have to listen to Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

Different Mark.

Facts shouldn't upset you. If they do upset you, don't read the post with them. No need to be emotional.

It was a joke...

Seriously though...I understand where you are coming from however, lacrosse is only 12.6 scholarships for men and I think 11.6 for women. The men's sport is actually fun to watch and an event that you can tailgate before. The game generally lasts 2 hours plus/minus 5 mins. FSU can become a decent power in the game as there are plenty of players in FL/GA plus they should be able to lure NE kids down to play.

Lacrosse is pricey. Team is usually 50-55 players, the cost of moving them around is second only to football. Equipment is expensive.
But there is the potential to develop into a big revenue sport....which gives lacrosse it's greatest allure for any AD.

I love lacrosse and love the idea. But FSU without football donations (and without excellence in football at FSU, there are no football donations), there would be no lacrosse.

That is the conundrum for FSU. When FSU's peers in football (Bama, UF, Clemson, UGA) are throwing $60 million buildings at football and $8 million coaches salaries, it is easy for some to say don't play that game (and many FSU fans are at that point), but the money will go away at FSU and then programs will get cut.

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

But on flipside ,most of these non revenue sports athelete graduate & at a school like UNC they become key to future donations to the athletic dept.

(05-28-2018 12:08 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 12:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:38 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 07:43 AM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  https://twitter.com/FSULacrosse/status/1...02113?s=19

FSU at least thinking about bringing up their program. Probably start with women's and maybe men's.

I don't mind women's lacrosse, but I don't really want the "football first" schools spending money on men's lacrosse - they need to focus available funds on football!

FSU probably needs women's lacrosse for Title IX purposes. Lacrosse is growing rapidly at the HS and college levels. If FSU needs to give out more women's scholarships, why not lacrosse? Try watching lacrosse. You might find it a compelling sport.

What, exactly, does the FSU football program need to spend money on that it doesn't already have? There seems to be this attitude that the ACC football programs are so pitifully underfunded that they can't possibly compete but I don't see it. Their spending seem to be on a par with other conferences.

You've seen it already - inability to retain football coaches. First they lost their national championship DC (Pruitt), then their head coach (Fisher). Not that I would've wanted to match Texas A&M even if I could, but still...

Do you really think that money was the reason that Fisher left FSU?

Because I don't.

Kudos on FSU getting on the lacrosse train.

$$$ was totally the reason Jimbo left.

Thought that was obvious to everyone.

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

A few points if I may Hokie Mark

1. "The Focus" part as related to football should be considered to be the contribution to the conference. If the ACC improves across the board in football nothing will generate more revenue for the conference.

2. The focus on the Capital One Cup and Director's cup stuff in minor non revenue sports misses the obligation to the conference. Most non revenues "are" the choice of the school. Lacrosse is the "private" part of the Public Ivy image that the old core ACC schools and the Old Big East Private schools like to push. Kudos to Syracuse on this because it has been a part of who they are for a very long time. But it is not a conference accomplishment that enhances the conference's pocketbook. It does however benefit the individual school's pocket book in oblique ways.

So I'm not dismissing lacrosse, just saying your criticism of North Carolina is spot on. They focus on those things which they care about. Not necessarily the things that make the conference money. But they sure like to dish out criticism of Clemson and F.S.U. when the field hands don't bring the white bread folks in the big house the share of revenue they want. It is disingenuous if they don't push the revenue sports too.

3. Most conferences have a requisite number of sports which are required for membership. I'm sure that is true of the ACC as well. If you want to push women's gymnastics then it needs to be added at the core level at least for the state schools. That is the kind of emphasis that launched it within the SEC.

And this is addressed to Nole.

Yeah, Jimbo left for more money. But he also moved his special needs child within easy travel distance of the hospital in DFW that specializes in caring for his particular disease. I think that may have had a lot to do with the decision. That and having been around some of these coaches over the years, most of them get itchy feet when they think it is getting harder to beat their past performance, or when they sense they are getting stale. I don't know how much that played into Jimbo's move as well but I wouldn't rule it out as an ancillary motivation.

(05-31-2018 04:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

A few points if I may Hokie Mark

1. "The Focus" part as related to football should be considered to be the contribution to the conference. If the ACC improves across the board in football nothing will generate more revenue for the conference.

2. The focus on the Capital One Cup and Director's cup stuff in minor non revenue sports misses the obligation to the conference. Most non revenues "are" the choice of the school. Lacrosse is the "private" part of the Public Ivy image that the old core ACC schools and the Old Big East Private schools like to push. Kudos to Syracuse on this because it has been a part of who they are for a very long time. But it is not a conference accomplishment that enhances the conference's pocketbook. It does however benefit the individual school's pocket book in oblique ways.

So I'm not dismissing lacrosse, just saying your criticism of North Carolina is spot on. They focus on those things which they care about. Not necessarily the things that make the conference money. But they sure like to dish out criticism of Clemson and F.S.U. when the field hands don't bring the white bread folks in the big house the share of revenue they want. It is disingenuous if they don't push the revenue sports too.

3. Most conferences have a requisite number of sports which are required for membership. I'm sure that is true of the ACC as well. If you want to push women's gymnastics then it needs to be added at the core level at least for the state schools. That is the kind of emphasis that launched it within the SEC.

And this is addressed to Nole.

Yeah, Jimbo left for more money. But he also moved his special needs child within easy travel distance of the hospital in DFW that specializes in caring for his particular disease. I think that may have had a lot to do with the decision. That and having been around some of these coaches over the years, most of them get itchy feet when they think it is getting harder to beat their past performance, or when they sense they are getting stale. I don't know how much that played into Jimbo's move as well but I wouldn't rule it out as an ancillary motivation.

Ouch....but accurate.

It's why I wish the ACC would reward revenue producers. We are stuck in a situation that is keeping us dead last in revenue and votes win the day for no change.

(05-31-2018 04:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

A few points if I may Hokie Mark

1. "The Focus" part as related to football should be considered to be the contribution to the conference. If the ACC improves across the board in football nothing will generate more revenue for the conference.

2. The focus on the Capital One Cup and Director's cup stuff in minor non revenue sports misses the obligation to the conference. Most non revenues "are" the choice of the school. Lacrosse is the "private" part of the Public Ivy image that the old core ACC schools and the Old Big East Private schools like to push. Kudos to Syracuse on this because it has been a part of who they are for a very long time. But it is not a conference accomplishment that enhances the conference's pocketbook. It does however benefit the individual school's pocket book in oblique ways.

So I'm not dismissing lacrosse, just saying your criticism of North Carolina is spot on. They focus on those things which they care about. Not necessarily the things that make the conference money. But they sure like to dish out criticism of Clemson and F.S.U. when the field hands don't bring the white bread folks in the big house the share of revenue they want. It is disingenuous if they don't push the revenue sports too.

3. Most conferences have a requisite number of sports which are required for membership. I'm sure that is true of the ACC as well. If you want to push women's gymnastics then it needs to be added at the core level at least for the state schools. That is the kind of emphasis that launched it within the SEC.

And this is addressed to Nole.

Yeah, Jimbo left for more money. But he also moved his special needs child within easy travel distance of the hospital in DFW that specializes in caring for his particular disease. I think that may have had a lot to do with the decision. That and having been around some of these coaches over the years, most of them get itchy feet when they think it is getting harder to beat their past performance, or when they sense they are getting stale. I don't know how much that played into Jimbo's move as well but I wouldn't rule it out as an ancillary motivation.

as usual JR

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ree-years/

The ACC is rolling in the dough more than any other conference, thanks to strong NCAA Tournament showings over the last three years.

According to a report from ESPN, deep runs from ACC teams, coupled with a Final Four appearance for North Carolina this season, will yield more than $100 million for the conference over a three-year period.

Because six ACC teams made at least the Sweet 16 last season, the conference will earn $39.9 million over a six-year payout.

That money earned from NCAA Tournament success is split equally with the conference. So the three-year tournament tally split 15 ways for 15 programs will net approximately $6.8 million -- even if teams like Georgia Tech and Boston College have not contributed to that success.

(06-01-2018 11:11 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...Seminole fans whining about ACC revenues!

Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

A few points if I may Hokie Mark

1. "The Focus" part as related to football should be considered to be the contribution to the conference. If the ACC improves across the board in football nothing will generate more revenue for the conference.

2. The focus on the Capital One Cup and Director's cup stuff in minor non revenue sports misses the obligation to the conference. Most non revenues "are" the choice of the school. Lacrosse is the "private" part of the Public Ivy image that the old core ACC schools and the Old Big East Private schools like to push. Kudos to Syracuse on this because it has been a part of who they are for a very long time. But it is not a conference accomplishment that enhances the conference's pocketbook. It does however benefit the individual school's pocket book in oblique ways.

So I'm not dismissing lacrosse, just saying your criticism of North Carolina is spot on. They focus on those things which they care about. Not necessarily the things that make the conference money. But they sure like to dish out criticism of Clemson and F.S.U. when the field hands don't bring the white bread folks in the big house the share of revenue they want. It is disingenuous if they don't push the revenue sports too.

3. Most conferences have a requisite number of sports which are required for membership. I'm sure that is true of the ACC as well. If you want to push women's gymnastics then it needs to be added at the core level at least for the state schools. That is the kind of emphasis that launched it within the SEC.

And this is addressed to Nole.

Yeah, Jimbo left for more money. But he also moved his special needs child within easy travel distance of the hospital in DFW that specializes in caring for his particular disease. I think that may have had a lot to do with the decision. That and having been around some of these coaches over the years, most of them get itchy feet when they think it is getting harder to beat their past performance, or when they sense they are getting stale. I don't know how much that played into Jimbo's move as well but I wouldn't rule it out as an ancillary motivation.

as usual JR

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ree-years/

The ACC is rolling in the dough more than any other conference, thanks to strong NCAA Tournament showings over the last three years.

According to a report from ESPN, deep runs from ACC teams, coupled with a Final Four appearance for North Carolina this season, will yield more than $100 million for the conference over a three-year period.

Because six ACC teams made at least the Sweet 16 last season, the conference will earn $39.9 million over a six-year payout.

That money earned from NCAA Tournament success is split equally with the conference. So the three-year tournament tally split 15 ways for 15 programs will net approximately $6.8 million -- even if teams like Georgia Tech and Boston College have not contributed to that success.

X, I fell into that same mistake until I realized that the $6.8 million per team was spread over 6 years... So even a GREAT run in basketball still only brings in a little more than $1.1M each. That's a trip to a 3rd tier bowl game.

As JR stated: NOTHING brings in more money than football.

Football/Basketball split is basically 80/20 give or take.

Simply put with some small basketball exceptions.....revenue comes from football. ACC has many mouths to feed, few that produce. And make no mistake, 'produce' means TV ratings and national titles. Little else.

(06-01-2018 12:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:11 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:10 PM)nole Wrote:  Seriously Mark? Insulting again because a few Noles (many seem oblivious) point out we are dead last in revenue?

Why does pointing out a fact always come to insulting with you?

(a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.

(05-28-2018 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  IIRC Florida State generates more athletic income than Carolina and we still manage to support 28 varsity sports at a very high level. I will remind you that Carolina has more top 10 director's cup finishes than the rest of the schools in the ACC combined.

NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

A few points if I may Hokie Mark

1. "The Focus" part as related to football should be considered to be the contribution to the conference. If the ACC improves across the board in football nothing will generate more revenue for the conference.

2. The focus on the Capital One Cup and Director's cup stuff in minor non revenue sports misses the obligation to the conference. Most non revenues "are" the choice of the school. Lacrosse is the "private" part of the Public Ivy image that the old core ACC schools and the Old Big East Private schools like to push. Kudos to Syracuse on this because it has been a part of who they are for a very long time. But it is not a conference accomplishment that enhances the conference's pocketbook. It does however benefit the individual school's pocket book in oblique ways.

So I'm not dismissing lacrosse, just saying your criticism of North Carolina is spot on. They focus on those things which they care about. Not necessarily the things that make the conference money. But they sure like to dish out criticism of Clemson and F.S.U. when the field hands don't bring the white bread folks in the big house the share of revenue they want. It is disingenuous if they don't push the revenue sports too.

3. Most conferences have a requisite number of sports which are required for membership. I'm sure that is true of the ACC as well. If you want to push women's gymnastics then it needs to be added at the core level at least for the state schools. That is the kind of emphasis that launched it within the SEC.

And this is addressed to Nole.

Yeah, Jimbo left for more money. But he also moved his special needs child within easy travel distance of the hospital in DFW that specializes in caring for his particular disease. I think that may have had a lot to do with the decision. That and having been around some of these coaches over the years, most of them get itchy feet when they think it is getting harder to beat their past performance, or when they sense they are getting stale. I don't know how much that played into Jimbo's move as well but I wouldn't rule it out as an ancillary motivation.

as usual JR

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ree-years/

The ACC is rolling in the dough more than any other conference, thanks to strong NCAA Tournament showings over the last three years.

According to a report from ESPN, deep runs from ACC teams, coupled with a Final Four appearance for North Carolina this season, will yield more than $100 million for the conference over a three-year period.

Because six ACC teams made at least the Sweet 16 last season, the conference will earn $39.9 million over a six-year payout.

That money earned from NCAA Tournament success is split equally with the conference. So the three-year tournament tally split 15 ways for 15 programs will net approximately $6.8 million -- even if teams like Georgia Tech and Boston College have not contributed to that success.

X, I fell into that same mistake until I realized that the $6.8 million per team was spread over 6 years... So even a GREAT run in basketball still only brings in a little more than $1.1M each. That's a trip to a 3rd tier bowl game.

As JR stated: NOTHING brings in more money than football.

Yep!, but it's free money without expenses that for the most part will be distributed every year to every team. The quality of ACC basketball keeps getting broader (it's no longer a two team league).
Football is on the same trajectory. The league is fortunate that Clemson and Florida State are leading the way, but they have to remember that is was Virginia Tech that carried ACC football from 2004-2011.

(06-01-2018 01:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 12:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:11 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 05:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  (a) calling it "whining" is not much of an insult - most would label that "ribbing" at most. NONETHELESS, if you feel that I was insulting you - I apologize. That was NOT my intention - I was only joking.

(b) you can't have it both ways - if it's ok for you to point out deficiencies with other fan bases then you need to be thick-skinned enough to also take it when someone points out a common feature of your own fan base.



NOW I'm going to point out a problem with another fan base (not just one person):

Winning FOOTBALL championships requires FOCUS.

FOOTBALL is 80% of revenue. Other sports are nice, but if you haven't won a FOOTBALL title in almost 40 years then maybe you aren't focused enough. Winning a director's cup is like selling the most air fresheners and floor mats at the Mercedes dealership... great, but how many CARS did you sell?

I know VT hasn't won any NATIONAL titles in FOOTBALL, but (a) it HAS won ACC football championships (fairly recently), and (b) it hasn't been playing at the "P5" level (or equivalent) for nearly as long as some other ACC schools (winning its first bowl game in 1986 and having joined a BCS league in 1991 - 27 years ago).

[/RANT]

A few points if I may Hokie Mark

1. "The Focus" part as related to football should be considered to be the contribution to the conference. If the ACC improves across the board in football nothing will generate more revenue for the conference.

2. The focus on the Capital One Cup and Director's cup stuff in minor non revenue sports misses the obligation to the conference. Most non revenues "are" the choice of the school. Lacrosse is the "private" part of the Public Ivy image that the old core ACC schools and the Old Big East Private schools like to push. Kudos to Syracuse on this because it has been a part of who they are for a very long time. But it is not a conference accomplishment that enhances the conference's pocketbook. It does however benefit the individual school's pocket book in oblique ways.

So I'm not dismissing lacrosse, just saying your criticism of North Carolina is spot on. They focus on those things which they care about. Not necessarily the things that make the conference money. But they sure like to dish out criticism of Clemson and F.S.U. when the field hands don't bring the white bread folks in the big house the share of revenue they want. It is disingenuous if they don't push the revenue sports too.

3. Most conferences have a requisite number of sports which are required for membership. I'm sure that is true of the ACC as well. If you want to push women's gymnastics then it needs to be added at the core level at least for the state schools. That is the kind of emphasis that launched it within the SEC.

And this is addressed to Nole.

Yeah, Jimbo left for more money. But he also moved his special needs child within easy travel distance of the hospital in DFW that specializes in caring for his particular disease. I think that may have had a lot to do with the decision. That and having been around some of these coaches over the years, most of them get itchy feet when they think it is getting harder to beat their past performance, or when they sense they are getting stale. I don't know how much that played into Jimbo's move as well but I wouldn't rule it out as an ancillary motivation.

as usual JR

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ree-years/

The ACC is rolling in the dough more than any other conference, thanks to strong NCAA Tournament showings over the last three years.

According to a report from ESPN, deep runs from ACC teams, coupled with a Final Four appearance for North Carolina this season, will yield more than $100 million for the conference over a three-year period.

Because six ACC teams made at least the Sweet 16 last season, the conference will earn $39.9 million over a six-year payout.

That money earned from NCAA Tournament success is split equally with the conference. So the three-year tournament tally split 15 ways for 15 programs will net approximately $6.8 million -- even if teams like Georgia Tech and Boston College have not contributed to that success.

X, I fell into that same mistake until I realized that the $6.8 million per team was spread over 6 years... So even a GREAT run in basketball still only brings in a little more than $1.1M each. That's a trip to a 3rd tier bowl game.

As JR stated: NOTHING brings in more money than football.

Yep!, but it's free money without expenses that for the most part will be distributed every year to every team. The quality of ACC basketball keeps getting broader (it's no longer a two team league).
Football is on the same trajectory. The league is fortunate that Clemson and Florida State are leading the way, but they have to remember that is was Virginia Tech that carried ACC football from 2004-2011.

I love Va Tech, but you confuse win the ACC title with produce in a $$ making sense for the ACC.

TV ratings and National titles are the money makers. Va Tech hasn't won a title and are rarely a big TV ratings school...let alone 'carry the conference.' They are a positive for the conference no doubt. But you would be wrong that they 'carried the conference' for those 7 years. That suggest the ACC lost no value during that time. Our TV contract alone counters that. Not Va Tech's fault at all. But we can't credit them with what you do there.

I would bet you $$$ that when Wake won the ACC that FSU still was dominant over them in TV ratings.

Miami for example, even when down is a big TV rating school.

If Wake or Ga Tech win the ACC in football (not that they are the same as Va Tech)....they aren't 'carrying the conference' in a revenue sense. Not at all. They deserve credit for winning the sport, but not the same as revenue producing.

If Va Tech won a national title, that would be a different story.

I see what you guys are saying. Compare the hype for a Clemson/FSU/Miami game vs the hype or lack thereof for a UNC, Duke, or a Georgia Tech game. It is night & day!!! Now, UNC does pull in those big ratings for basketball and there is a lot of hype surrounding those games, no doubt, and Duke too. But they don't do it in football.