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Any press is good press I guess
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #1
Any press is good press I guess
https://deadspin.com/the-numbers-are-in-...1826421694

Quote:There are some things in life a person figures out by the time they’re grown: gravity, death, the calculated depletion of media and America at the hand of venture capitalists. And N.C. State’s mediocrity.

Recently some statistical proof came through on that last item. For Wolfpack fans, the numbers are sobering—not for what they reveal, but for what they reinforce. With its 5-2 loss to Florida State last Friday, N.C. State pushed its streak with no ACC titles in football, basketball (men’s and women’s), and baseball to 26 years.
05-31-2018 07:13 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Any press is good press I guess
(05-31-2018 07:13 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  the calculated depletion of media and America at the hand of venture capitalists.


Well bless that writer's little heart.
05-31-2018 11:54 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.
06-01-2018 02:13 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.
06-02-2018 08:46 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

It would also make it possible for the ACC to pick up a foursome that included Texas if they so desired. Think Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and T.C.U. or Iowa State.
06-02-2018 12:20 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 12:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

It would also make it possible for the ACC to pick up a foursome that included Texas if they so desired. Think Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and T.C.U. or Iowa State.

I'm not sure the ACC would want this, and I doubt those four schools would, either. I don't think that gives Texas and Oklahoma the critical mass of regional rivals they need. And I think the ACC and SEC need to stay at 8 games to give their marquee teams another OOC game to schedule against an opponent from the other league. ESPN should want to take advantage of all the compelling interleague matchups.

As I configured it, with just Va Tech and NC State moving, the four year average power ratings for the P5 show pretty good competitive balance (if you discount the impact a single school - Alabama - has on the SEC's numbers).

The numbers:
SEC 80.1
B12 76.7
PAC 76.6
ACC 76.5
B1G 75.7

You can't get much tighter than that without an NFL style player draft. If you take the ratings of only the top 4 teams from each league, the Big Dogs - SEC and B1G - are also the only P5 leagues with more than 12 members. If they want a four team CCT, I say let them.

But I've always felt that a four team CFP, with five balanced power leagues, makes for a more compelling regular season. It also makes for a more controversial selection process for the CFP, and controversy sells. I like keeping the B12 viable.
06-02-2018 02:00 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

A few of their fans talk about switching to the SEC but the ACC always was Va Tech's dream conference. I don't think that's changed. I don't think it's much different at NCSU. Don't mistake a few loud talkers for a groundswell.
06-02-2018 03:02 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 12:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

It would also make it possible for the ACC to pick up a foursome that included Texas if they so desired. Think Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and T.C.U. or Iowa State.

I'm not sure the ACC would want this, and I doubt those four schools would, either. I don't think that gives Texas and Oklahoma the critical mass of regional rivals they need. And I think the ACC and SEC need to stay at 8 games to give their marquee teams another OOC game to schedule against an opponent from the other league. ESPN should want to take advantage of all the compelling interleague matchups.

As I configured it, with just Va Tech and NC State moving, the four year average power ratings for the P5 show pretty good competitive balance (if you discount the impact a single school - Alabama - has on the SEC's numbers).

The numbers:
SEC 80.1
B12 76.7
PAC 76.6
ACC 76.5
B1G 75.7

You can't get much tighter than that without an NFL style player draft. If you take the ratings of only the top 4 teams from each league, the Big Dogs - SEC and B1G - are also the only P5 leagues with more than 12 members. If they want a four team CCT, I say let them.

But I've always felt that a four team CFP, with five balanced power leagues, makes for a more compelling regular season. It also makes for a more controversial selection process for the CFP, and controversy sells. I like keeping the B12 viable.

Who said anything about balance. The motivating factor would be who is under contract to ESPN.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2018 04:27 PM by JRsec.)
06-02-2018 03:08 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 03:02 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

A few of their fans talk about switching to the SEC but the ACC always was Va Tech's dream conference. I don't think that's changed. I don't think it's much different at NCSU. Don't mistake a few loud talkers for a groundswell.

For us older VT fans, that is definitely true (ACC was always the goal). The younger generation of Hokie fans would be fine with a jump to the SEC (or even the B1G), IMO. So IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue, I could see a day when the younger crowd reaches a critical mass (probably 10, 15 years from now - say when the current GoR expires?)

Personally, I hope it doesn't come to that - but who knows? I may not live to see it happen anyway.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2018 03:23 PM by Hokie Mark.)
06-02-2018 03:22 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 03:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 12:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

It would also make it possible for the ACC to pick up a foursome that included Texas if they so desired. Think Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and T.C.U. or Iowa State.

I'm not sure the ACC would want this, and I doubt those four schools would, either. I don't think that gives Texas and Oklahoma the critical mass of regional rivals they need. And I think the ACC and SEC need to stay at 8 games to give their marquee teams another OOC game to schedule against an opponent from the other league. ESPN should want to take advantage of all the compelling interleague matchups.

As I configured it, with just Va Tech and NC State moving, the four year average power ratings for the P5 show pretty good competitive balance (if you discount the impact a single school - Alabama - has on the SEC's numbers).

The numbers:
SEC 80.1
B12 76.7
PAC 76.6
ACC 76.5
B1G 75.7

You can't get much tighter than that without an NFL style player draft. If you take the ratings of only the top 4 teams from each league, the Big Dogs - SEC and B1G - are also the only P5 leagues with more than 12 members. If they want a four team CCT, I say let them.

But I've always felt that a four team CFP, with five balanced power leagues, makes for a more compelling regular season. It also makes for a more controversial selection process for the CFP, and controversy sells. I like keeping the B12 viable.

Who said anything about balance. The motivating factor would be who is under contract to ESPN.

I wasn't thinking about balance as a motivating factor. Rather, it's a fortuitous byproduct. I was thinking that tweaking the placement of the 28 schools already under contract with ESPN could create a greater number of compelling matchups and rivalries. That can't hurt ratings.

I'm pretty sure a school like South Carolina would rather have chance to play North Carolina (and NC State) more often than to play another SEC West opponent. And I bet Clemson would like to play Auburn and Georgia more often than they do now, and maybe even vice versa. Seems to me those are games that should be played. I suspect there are others.

I believe conferences should be trying to help their members play more opponents they really want to play, rather than just trying to make every team play every other team within a certain timeframe. With much bigger conferences, I'm sure there are some schools that really don't care if they ever play some other schools that they never played before they were conference mates.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2018 04:28 PM by JRsec.)
06-02-2018 03:27 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #11
RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 03:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:02 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

A few of their fans talk about switching to the SEC but the ACC always was Va Tech's dream conference. I don't think that's changed. I don't think it's much different at NCSU. Don't mistake a few loud talkers for a groundswell.

For us older VT fans, that is definitely true (ACC was always the goal). The younger generation of Hokie fans would be fine with a jump to the SEC (or even the B1G), IMO. So IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue, I could see a day when the younger crowd reaches a critical mass (probably 10, 15 years from now - say when the current GoR expires?)

Personally, I hope it doesn't come to that - but who knows? I may not live to see it happen anyway.

That may be true for NC State fans as well. I wasn't implying that I think this will happen anytime soon. Only that the idea isn't as far fetched as some would make it out to be. You say "IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue". If I were going to bet, I'd say that's a lot more likely than not.

Right now, ESPN could answer that question with a lot more clarity than any of us. For all I know, maybe they have already done so. But who's to say, in a volatile media market, that it will still be ESPN's call five years from now?
06-02-2018 03:57 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 03:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:02 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  A few of their fans talk about switching to the SEC but the ACC always was Va Tech's dream conference. I don't think that's changed. I don't think it's much different at NCSU. Don't mistake a few loud talkers for a groundswell.

For us older VT fans, that is definitely true (ACC was always the goal). The younger generation of Hokie fans would be fine with a jump to the SEC (or even the B1G), IMO. So IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue, I could see a day when the younger crowd reaches a critical mass (probably 10, 15 years from now - say when the current GoR expires?)

Personally, I hope it doesn't come to that - but who knows? I may not live to see it happen anyway.

That may be true for NC State fans as well. I wasn't implying that I think this will happen anytime soon. Only that the idea isn't as far fetched as some would make it out to be. You say "IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue". If I were going to bet, I'd say that's a lot more likely than not.

Right now, ESPN could answer that question with a lot more clarity than any of us. For all I know, maybe they have already done so. But who's to say, in a volatile media market, that it will still be ESPN's call five years from now?

Two good points here, IMO.
1) Each of us may have an idea of what we THINK is "significantly behind" but ultimately our opinions don't matter. What IS a "significant" amount?
2) The question of who will be calling the shots when it's decision time is a good one. We just don't know yet.
06-02-2018 04:09 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 12:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

It would also make it possible for the ACC to pick up a foursome that included Texas if they so desired. Think Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and T.C.U. or Iowa State.

I'm not sure the ACC would want this, and I doubt those four schools would, either. I don't think that gives Texas and Oklahoma the critical mass of regional rivals they need. And I think the ACC and SEC need to stay at 8 games to give their marquee teams another OOC game to schedule against an opponent from the other league. ESPN should want to take advantage of all the compelling interleague matchups.

As I configured it, with just Va Tech and NC State moving, the four year average power ratings for the P5 show pretty good competitive balance (if you discount the impact a single school - Alabama - has on the SEC's numbers).

The numbers:
SEC 80.1
B12 76.7
PAC 76.6
ACC 76.5
B1G 75.7

You can't get much tighter than that without an NFL style player draft. If you take the ratings of only the top 4 teams from each league, the Big Dogs - SEC and B1G - are also the only P5 leagues with more than 12 members. If they want a four team CCT, I say let them.

But I've always felt that a four team CFP, with five balanced power leagues, makes for a more compelling regular season. It also makes for a more controversial selection process for the CFP, and controversy sells. I like keeping the B12 viable.

Who said anything about balance. The motivating factor would be who is under contract to ESPN.

I wasn't thinking about balance as a motivating factor. Rather, it's a fortuitous byproduct. I was thinking that tweaking the placement of the 28 schools already under contract with ESPN could create a greater number of compelling matchups and rivalries. That can't hurt ratings.

I'm pretty sure a school like South Carolina would rather have chance to play North Carolina (and NC State) more often than to play another SEC West opponent. And I bet Clemson would like to play Auburn and Georgia more often than they do now, and maybe even vice versa. Seems to me those are games that should be played. I suspect there are others.

I believe conferences should be trying to help their members play more opponents they really want to play, rather than just trying to make every team play every other team within a certain timeframe. With much bigger conferences, I'm sure there are some schools that really don't care if they ever play some other schools that they never played before they were conference mates.

I can agree with that. But if we added the schools from the Big 12 that ESPN would want then setting them up in a 4 school division that could play the SEC West at the end of the year would also be advantageous and I was looking at the added value of the Texas / OU market of 32 million for the ACCN and the brand power that would also drive the ACC's content value.

Sidenote: Miss State 3 (walk off 3 run dinger) FSU 2. Two and half hour rain delay.
06-02-2018 04:32 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 04:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:02 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  A few of their fans talk about switching to the SEC but the ACC always was Va Tech's dream conference. I don't think that's changed. I don't think it's much different at NCSU. Don't mistake a few loud talkers for a groundswell.

For us older VT fans, that is definitely true (ACC was always the goal). The younger generation of Hokie fans would be fine with a jump to the SEC (or even the B1G), IMO. So IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue, I could see a day when the younger crowd reaches a critical mass (probably 10, 15 years from now - say when the current GoR expires?)

Personally, I hope it doesn't come to that - but who knows? I may not live to see it happen anyway.

That may be true for NC State fans as well. I wasn't implying that I think this will happen anytime soon. Only that the idea isn't as far fetched as some would make it out to be. You say "IF the ACC remains significantly behind in revenue". If I were going to bet, I'd say that's a lot more likely than not.

Right now, ESPN could answer that question with a lot more clarity than any of us. For all I know, maybe they have already done so. But who's to say, in a volatile media market, that it will still be ESPN's call five years from now?

Two good points here, IMO.
1) Each of us may have an idea of what we THINK is "significantly behind" but ultimately our opinions don't matter. What IS a "significant" amount?
2) The question of who will be calling the shots when it's decision time is a good one. We just don't know yet.

Assuming there might be some amount of money that would entice NC State to leave the ACC, I believe it would have less to do with closing the revenue gap with the SEC and more to do with closing the revenue gap with Carolina. I was surprised to see that the gap between UVa and Va Tech is even larger than State's gap with UNC. But I'm not sure that's a visceral issue with the Hokies in the way it is with the Pack.

Are there any reasons other than just money that could lure VT away from their dream conference?
06-02-2018 09:33 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 04:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 12:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It would also make it possible for the ACC to pick up a foursome that included Texas if they so desired. Think Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and T.C.U. or Iowa State.

I'm not sure the ACC would want this, and I doubt those four schools would, either. I don't think that gives Texas and Oklahoma the critical mass of regional rivals they need. And I think the ACC and SEC need to stay at 8 games to give their marquee teams another OOC game to schedule against an opponent from the other league. ESPN should want to take advantage of all the compelling interleague matchups.

As I configured it, with just Va Tech and NC State moving, the four year average power ratings for the P5 show pretty good competitive balance (if you discount the impact a single school - Alabama - has on the SEC's numbers).

The numbers:
SEC 80.1
B12 76.7
PAC 76.6
ACC 76.5
B1G 75.7

You can't get much tighter than that without an NFL style player draft. If you take the ratings of only the top 4 teams from each league, the Big Dogs - SEC and B1G - are also the only P5 leagues with more than 12 members. If they want a four team CCT, I say let them.

But I've always felt that a four team CFP, with five balanced power leagues, makes for a more compelling regular season. It also makes for a more controversial selection process for the CFP, and controversy sells. I like keeping the B12 viable.

Who said anything about balance. The motivating factor would be who is under contract to ESPN.

I wasn't thinking about balance as a motivating factor. Rather, it's a fortuitous byproduct. I was thinking that tweaking the placement of the 28 schools already under contract with ESPN could create a greater number of compelling matchups and rivalries. That can't hurt ratings.

I'm pretty sure a school like South Carolina would rather have chance to play North Carolina (and NC State) more often than to play another SEC West opponent. And I bet Clemson would like to play Auburn and Georgia more often than they do now, and maybe even vice versa. Seems to me those are games that should be played. I suspect there are others.

I believe conferences should be trying to help their members play more opponents they really want to play, rather than just trying to make every team play every other team within a certain timeframe. With much bigger conferences, I'm sure there are some schools that really don't care if they ever play some other schools that they never played before they were conference mates.

I can agree with that. But if we added the schools from the Big 12 that ESPN would want then setting them up in a 4 school division that could play the SEC West at the end of the year would also be advantageous and I was looking at the added value of the Texas / OU market of 32 million for the ACCN and the brand power that would also drive the ACC's content value.

Sidenote: Miss State 3 (walk off 3 run dinger) FSU 2. Two and half hour rain delay.

Is there a point where having more end of season OOC rivalry games stops adding value? Even in Thanksgiving week there are a limited number of desirable broadcast windows. Could a Texas - A&M game start eating into the potential audience for Clemson - South Carolina for example? Or do you count on the fact that the B1G's and (a depleted) B12's lineup of such rivalries are relatively weak?
06-02-2018 09:43 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 09:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 04:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 03:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  I'm not sure the ACC would want this, and I doubt those four schools would, either. I don't think that gives Texas and Oklahoma the critical mass of regional rivals they need. And I think the ACC and SEC need to stay at 8 games to give their marquee teams another OOC game to schedule against an opponent from the other league. ESPN should want to take advantage of all the compelling interleague matchups.

As I configured it, with just Va Tech and NC State moving, the four year average power ratings for the P5 show pretty good competitive balance (if you discount the impact a single school - Alabama - has on the SEC's numbers).

The numbers:
SEC 80.1
B12 76.7
PAC 76.6
ACC 76.5
B1G 75.7

You can't get much tighter than that without an NFL style player draft. If you take the ratings of only the top 4 teams from each league, the Big Dogs - SEC and B1G - are also the only P5 leagues with more than 12 members. If they want a four team CCT, I say let them.

But I've always felt that a four team CFP, with five balanced power leagues, makes for a more compelling regular season. It also makes for a more controversial selection process for the CFP, and controversy sells. I like keeping the B12 viable.

Who said anything about balance. The motivating factor would be who is under contract to ESPN.

I wasn't thinking about balance as a motivating factor. Rather, it's a fortuitous byproduct. I was thinking that tweaking the placement of the 28 schools already under contract with ESPN could create a greater number of compelling matchups and rivalries. That can't hurt ratings.

I'm pretty sure a school like South Carolina would rather have chance to play North Carolina (and NC State) more often than to play another SEC West opponent. And I bet Clemson would like to play Auburn and Georgia more often than they do now, and maybe even vice versa. Seems to me those are games that should be played. I suspect there are others.

I believe conferences should be trying to help their members play more opponents they really want to play, rather than just trying to make every team play every other team within a certain timeframe. With much bigger conferences, I'm sure there are some schools that really don't care if they ever play some other schools that they never played before they were conference mates.

I can agree with that. But if we added the schools from the Big 12 that ESPN would want then setting them up in a 4 school division that could play the SEC West at the end of the year would also be advantageous and I was looking at the added value of the Texas / OU market of 32 million for the ACCN and the brand power that would also drive the ACC's content value.

Sidenote: Miss State 3 (walk off 3 run dinger) FSU 2. Two and half hour rain delay.

Is there a point where having more end of season OOC rivalry games stops adding value? Even in Thanksgiving week there are a limited number of desirable broadcast windows. Could a Texas - A&M game start eating into the potential audience for Clemson - South Carolina for example? Or do you count on the fact that the B1G's and (a depleted) B12's lineup of such rivalries are relatively weak?

I suppose it could reach a point of diminishing interest, but we haven't reached that yet. Most of these games aren't national games of interest but are intrinsically and intensely regional. I'm thinking Kansas / Missoouri and Texas / Texas A&M (when only 1 is ranked or neither of the them are in line for a CFP slot). So regionally they still make a conference or network or conferences money. They draw heavy regional ads instead of national ones, but they still draw.

Auburn and Alabama is huge because every t-shirt fan and Alabama alum will be pulling for the Tide and most of the rest of the nation joins Auburn t-shirt fans and alums in pulling against them. Michigan and Ohio State is huge because one of them loses which pleases the nation and their alums are fully invested. I would argue that Clemson / Florida State is getting there and like the RRR that game isn't played the last week of the regular season.

I think we could handle a goodly number of season enders and as long as we look for a way to max out the different markets within our conferences we still come out ahead.
06-03-2018 12:05 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #17
RE: Any press is good press I guess
If not for basketball, I would almost be inclined to achieve the critical mass for the southwest division by going to 6 instead of four schools. Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU and Kansas (or West Virginia). There would then be three six team divisions.

I say that last part, because if the B1G could be persuaded to find a home for Kansas and Iowa State you could get the 8 votes you need to formally dissolve the Big 12. And those are the only two the B1G might consider. Problem there is why would they do that to help the ACC out?

But hoops becomes extremely unwieldy, and you almost have to divide into almost totally separate divisions with very little crossover. The four southern schools in the ACC might not be happy to go west to do that. For balance, you could float the idea of UConn for all sports except football (with a guarantee of several FB games to make an indy schedule feasible for the Huskies) to give both divisions 10 members each with a full double round robin and two crossover games OOC with the other division.

But now the number of moving parts becomes almost unmanageable. To the point where I get back to the ACC just staying at 12.

Realignment is hard.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2018 06:28 AM by ken d.)
06-03-2018 06:26 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Any press is good press I guess
Of course, if the SEC were to take two from the B12 and the ACC took 6, you have the 8 you need. Would the SEC be willing to take Kansas and Iowa State? If so, the ACC could add K State to the Texhoma 5 for a southwest division.

This way, Kansas becomes a major hoops attraction along with Kentucky for the SEC. The ACC didn't need another hoops draw anyway.

Now the ACC and SEC contain 36 teams in two 18 team conferences of three 6 team divisions. The Big 12 is dead, leaving a P4 to dominate the CFP and NY6.

What's not to like?
06-03-2018 07:18 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Any press is good press I guess
Can someone... anyone... just hurry up and realign somewhere else?

We don't care who. We don't care where.

Just do it.
06-03-2018 10:19 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Any press is good press I guess
(06-02-2018 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2018 02:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  Shhhhh............
JR keeps thinking that State would be GREAT in the SEC.
Maybe we can trade the wuffies for something of value......like a shiny nickel.

You laugh. But I don't think ceding Va Tech and NC State to the SEC would cost the ACC anything in terms of its media contracts on a per member basis. And the value they would get in return is a resolution of the division alignment problem nobody has been able to solve with the current 14 members. FSU, Clemson and Georgia Tech can all be in the same division, and 12 teams takes a 9 game league schedule off the table.

It would give the SEC East and ACC two more annual OOC rivalry games. It would increase the frequency with which ACC members get Notre Dame on the schedule. It would let Clemson alternate Georgia, Auburn and Notre Dame OOC without giving up two buy games.

From NC State's point of view, what does it matter if they never win a division championship in the SEC? How is that different from their time in the ACC? It gives them more money and they can stop blaming UNC for every ref's call that goes against them. They could get Duke back on their annual football schedule OOC.

Virginia Tech gets a financial, schedule and prestige upgrade. And while winning a division title would be a lot harder, it would also carry more weight than finishing first in the current ACC Coastal.

State to the SEC isn't all that far fetched.

Interesting.....tribute?
06-05-2018 08:23 PM
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