(06-10-2018 12:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 08:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:53 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 10:37 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The CBSSN is the only one apparently interested in G5 post-Christmas.

The benefit for having the four champs playing each other is it should improve the possibility of the winners finishing in the final top 25

Put it that way, and there's NOTHING in it for the AAC.
2017 #6, #19, #23
2016 USF #19. Champ Temple lost to 6-6 Wake Forest in Military Bowl.
2015 #8, #18
2014 #25 Memphis
2013 #10, (#15 Louisville)

Although that may stabilize the situation--removing one difficult-to-please chair from the negotiating table. Two games, everybody sends their champs. When one of the "G4" champs is in the Access Bowl, they send their #2 pick. One game in New ORleans the other maybe in the Bahamas? You're getting on a plane and going a long way, might as well end up somewhere awesome?

Problem is I dont see the AAC participating as long as they can get a bowl or two vs P5’s.

When i think conspiratorially, it seems to me that the P5 likes having the AAC in the 'tweener' role, because that prevents the AAC from unifying with the other G5.

As long as the AAC thinks it has a chance to join the Power group, it will be reluctant to do anything significant in terms of allying with the rest of the G5 to present a common bloc against the P5. It will seek to stay in the good graces of the P5, and it also won't seek to 'burn down the house down' because it feels it might get in to the house with the P5. It will also maintain a public posture of separation from the other G5, because it will be eager to position itself symbolically as not among that ilk.

In that sense, the AAC is kind of a 'useful idiot' in terms of helping keep the G5 out in the field. But all the while it is still "5" in that same field.

This is where I might disagree a bit. I don’t think the P5 thinks about the G5 at all. I dont think they look to undermine the G5. I think the P5 simply seeks to promote and advance thier own interests—and that process can make it appear that they wish to torpedo the G5 (the CFP Selection Committee is a good example).

Yes, that's why i said 'when i think conspiratorially' because usually i agree with you - the P5 generally doesn't think much about the G5.

The P5 does like having the entire G5 around, because truth is, most P5 programs have no interest in the Saban suggestion of only playing other P5. Their attitude is, "OK Nick, give my program your players, and then I'll pontificate about playing only other P5 as well".

They want to play G5, because despite the occasional bite in the arse, G5 mean more wins, and more wins means everyone has a better chance of keeping their jobs. That's why the P5 won't move to totally separate from the G5, because then playing only other P5 would logically follow from that.

(06-10-2018 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 12:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 08:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:53 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Put it that way, and there's NOTHING in it for the AAC.
2017 #6, #19, #23
2016 USF #19. Champ Temple lost to 6-6 Wake Forest in Military Bowl.
2015 #8, #18
2014 #25 Memphis
2013 #10, (#15 Louisville)

Although that may stabilize the situation--removing one difficult-to-please chair from the negotiating table. Two games, everybody sends their champs. When one of the "G4" champs is in the Access Bowl, they send their #2 pick. One game in New ORleans the other maybe in the Bahamas? You're getting on a plane and going a long way, might as well end up somewhere awesome?

Problem is I dont see the AAC participating as long as they can get a bowl or two vs P5’s.

When i think conspiratorially, it seems to me that the P5 likes having the AAC in the 'tweener' role, because that prevents the AAC from unifying with the other G5.

As long as the AAC thinks it has a chance to join the Power group, it will be reluctant to do anything significant in terms of allying with the rest of the G5 to present a common bloc against the P5. It will seek to stay in the good graces of the P5, and it also won't seek to 'burn down the house down' because it feels it might get in to the house with the P5. It will also maintain a public posture of separation from the other G5, because it will be eager to position itself symbolically as not among that ilk.

In that sense, the AAC is kind of a 'useful idiot' in terms of helping keep the G5 out in the field. But all the while it is still "5" in that same field.

This is where I might disagree a bit. I don’t think the P5 thinks about the G5 at all. I dont think they look to undermine the G5. I think the P5 simply seeks to promote and advance thier own interests—and that process can make it appear that they wish to torpedo the G5 (the CFP Selection Committee is a good example).

Yes, that's why i said 'when i think conspiratorially' because usually i agree with you - the P5 generally doesn't think much about the G5.

The P5 does like having the entire G5 around, because truth is, most P5 programs have no interest in the Saban suggestion of only playing other P5. Their attitude is, "OK Nick, give my program your players, and then I'll pontificate about playing only other P5 as well".

They want to play G5, because despite the occasional bite in the arse, G5 mean more wins, and more wins means everyone has a better chance of keeping their jobs. That's why the P5 won't move to totally separate from the G5, because then playing only other P5 would logically follow from that.

Right. The existence of the G5, or "lower-FBS" as I call it, means that the bottom-feeders of the P5 still get to see themselves as "above average", or at least close to it.

Without the G5, a program like Kentucky football would be the college equivalent of the Cleveland Browns. But because they played Eastern Michigan, Southern Miss (and FCS EKU), their 4-4 SEC record becomes 7-5 and they go to their second straight bowl game.

(06-10-2018 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  They want to play G5, because despite the occasional bite in the arse, G5 mean more wins, and more wins means everyone has a better chance of keeping their jobs. That's why the P5 won't move to totally separate from the G5, because then playing only other P5 would logically follow from that.

Agreed. They also want to keep playing the G5 because that preserves their unbalanced schedules. Typically a P5 team plays 7 home games and 5 road games whereas almost all G5 teams play 6 and 6. For the P5 schools that translates to more tickets sold, more revenue and higher fan satisfaction, and of course maximum home field advantage.

(06-10-2018 04:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  They want to play G5, because despite the occasional bite in the arse, G5 mean more wins, and more wins means everyone has a better chance of keeping their jobs. That's why the P5 won't move to totally separate from the G5, because then playing only other P5 would logically follow from that.

Agreed. They also want to keep playing the G5 because that preserves their unbalanced schedules. Typically a P5 team plays 7 home games and 5 road games whereas almost all G5 teams play 6 and 6. For the P5 schools that translates to more tickets sold, more revenue and higher fan satisfaction, and of course maximum home field advantage.

And they don't just get the money from those 2 extra home games. They also win almost 90% of them.

(06-10-2018 12:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 08:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:53 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 10:37 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The CBSSN is the only one apparently interested in G5 post-Christmas.

The benefit for having the four champs playing each other is it should improve the possibility of the winners finishing in the final top 25

Put it that way, and there's NOTHING in it for the AAC.
2017 #6, #19, #23
2016 USF #19. Champ Temple lost to 6-6 Wake Forest in Military Bowl.
2015 #8, #18
2014 #25 Memphis
2013 #10, (#15 Louisville)

Although that may stabilize the situation--removing one difficult-to-please chair from the negotiating table. Two games, everybody sends their champs. When one of the "G4" champs is in the Access Bowl, they send their #2 pick. One game in New ORleans the other maybe in the Bahamas? You're getting on a plane and going a long way, might as well end up somewhere awesome?

Problem is I dont see the AAC participating as long as they can get a bowl or two vs P5’s.

When i think conspiratorially, it seems to me that the P5 likes having the AAC in the 'tweener' role, because that prevents the AAC from unifying with the other G5.

As long as the AAC thinks it has a chance to join the Power group, it will be reluctant to do anything significant in terms of allying with the rest of the G5 to present a common bloc against the P5. It will seek to stay in the good graces of the P5, and it also won't seek to 'burn down the house down' because it feels it might get in to the house with the P5. It will also maintain a public posture of separation from the other G5, because it will be eager to position itself symbolically as not among that ilk.

In that sense, the AAC is kind of a 'useful idiot' in terms of helping keep the G5 out in the field. But all the while it is still "5" in that same field.

This is where I might disagree a bit. I don’t think the P5 thinks about the G5 at all. I dont think they look to undermine the G5. I think the P5 simply seeks to promote and advance thier own interests—and that process can make it appear that they wish to torpedo the G5 (the CFP Selection Committee is a good example).

The reality is the G5, even collectively, have little power. So even complete and total seamless cooperation among G5 would not do a whole lot, plus, as we have discussed—-thier goals don’t really align 100%. For instance, the AAC would be better off working for the creation of a post season destination bowl for thier champ into thier next media contract than doing anything with the other G5’s. Say they get NBC to toss and extra 5 million into the contract a year for a new “Peacock Bowl” that would pit the AAC champ vs a high pick from the P5 to be shown after Christmas on NBC-OTA. That’s a much more attractive option for the AAC than anything the ultimate in G5 cooperation could conjer.

That's fine if the AAC is able to land a spot for its champ.

It doesn't preclude the AAC #2 or #3 pick however from participating in a G5 champions pool.

My idea is for the MWC/MAC/CUSA/SBC to put 4 mid tier (post Christmas) bowls together with lower ACC/PAC and maybe BYU/AAC that would help their recruiting.

That is what the conversation is to me. What can the MWC/MAC/CUSA/SBC do to advance their best programs. The AAC doesn't need help as evidenced by their CFP record.

(06-10-2018 09:32 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 12:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 08:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:53 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Put it that way, and there's NOTHING in it for the AAC.
2017 #6, #19, #23
2016 USF #19. Champ Temple lost to 6-6 Wake Forest in Military Bowl.
2015 #8, #18
2014 #25 Memphis
2013 #10, (#15 Louisville)

Although that may stabilize the situation--removing one difficult-to-please chair from the negotiating table. Two games, everybody sends their champs. When one of the "G4" champs is in the Access Bowl, they send their #2 pick. One game in New ORleans the other maybe in the Bahamas? You're getting on a plane and going a long way, might as well end up somewhere awesome?

Problem is I dont see the AAC participating as long as they can get a bowl or two vs P5’s.

When i think conspiratorially, it seems to me that the P5 likes having the AAC in the 'tweener' role, because that prevents the AAC from unifying with the other G5.

As long as the AAC thinks it has a chance to join the Power group, it will be reluctant to do anything significant in terms of allying with the rest of the G5 to present a common bloc against the P5. It will seek to stay in the good graces of the P5, and it also won't seek to 'burn down the house down' because it feels it might get in to the house with the P5. It will also maintain a public posture of separation from the other G5, because it will be eager to position itself symbolically as not among that ilk.

In that sense, the AAC is kind of a 'useful idiot' in terms of helping keep the G5 out in the field. But all the while it is still "5" in that same field.

This is where I might disagree a bit. I don’t think the P5 thinks about the G5 at all. I dont think they look to undermine the G5. I think the P5 simply seeks to promote and advance thier own interests—and that process can make it appear that they wish to torpedo the G5 (the CFP Selection Committee is a good example).

The reality is the G5, even collectively, have little power. So even complete and total seamless cooperation among G5 would not do a whole lot, plus, as we have discussed—-thier goals don’t really align 100%. For instance, the AAC would be better off working for the creation of a post season destination bowl for thier champ into thier next media contract than doing anything with the other G5’s. Say they get NBC to toss and extra 5 million into the contract a year for a new “Peacock Bowl” that would pit the AAC champ vs a high pick from the P5 to be shown after Christmas on NBC-OTA. That’s a much more attractive option for the AAC than anything the ultimate in G5 cooperation could conjer.

That's fine if the AAC is able to land a spot for its champ.

It doesn't preclude the AAC #2 or #3 pick however from participating in a G5 champions pool.

My idea is for the MWC/MAC/CUSA/SBC to put 4 mid tier (post Christmas) bowls together with lower ACC/PAC and maybe BYU/AAC that would help their recruiting.

That is what the conversation is to me. What can the MWC/MAC/CUSA/SBC do to advance their best programs. The AAC doesn't need help as evidenced by their CFP record.

Aresco has stated many times that the AAC will try to get as many P5 bowls as possible . However, it they can only get one or two--then I think contributing the most attractive remaining AAC team to a G5 "champions pool" would probably be a good move for both the proposed pool and the AAC. That would still typically be a very good team. In fact, that #3 team would have been a ranked team in 2 of the leagues 5 years of existance. Even in the unranked years, the #3 team still would have been a very interesting team. For instance, in 2016, that pick would have probably been Houston with wins over 2 top five P5 teams. So even that 3rd pick would typically add value to the pool most years.

It works best as a G4 tournie. without AAC in it. 4 champs play for G4 title. If AAC gets TV deal in the 6 to 10 mil range, It is in a different league than them.

(06-11-2018 07:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  It works best as a G4 tournie. without AAC in it. 4 champs play for G4 title. If AAC gets TV deal in the 6 to 10 mil range, It is in a different league than them.

As I have said before, I personally wouldn't be any more interested in watching conference champs Appalacian State and Florida A&M play than I would be watching 7-5 Appy and 6-6 FAU play. The question is, would more fans feel the way I do or the way you do?

For me, the FCS semis and finals are more compelling than a four team G5 "playoff" would be. The latter sounds too much like the consolation games that real tourneys long since dropped. There is just nothing at stake. I would much rather see that App State team play the #7 team from the ACC or the #9 team from the SEC than play any other G5 team, whether that's before Christmas or after..

(06-10-2018 05:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 04:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 03:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  They want to play G5, because despite the occasional bite in the arse, G5 mean more wins, and more wins means everyone has a better chance of keeping their jobs. That's why the P5 won't move to totally separate from the G5, because then playing only other P5 would logically follow from that.

Agreed. They also want to keep playing the G5 because that preserves their unbalanced schedules. Typically a P5 team plays 7 home games and 5 road games whereas almost all G5 teams play 6 and 6. For the P5 schools that translates to more tickets sold, more revenue and higher fan satisfaction, and of course maximum home field advantage.

And they don't just get the money from those 2 extra home games. They also win almost 90% of them.

And they get bowl eligible at 6 & 6 or 7 & 5 which keeps their fans and donors that travel to warmer winter environments happy and keeps their coaches happy with 2 more weeks of practice to see what they have in house for the next year before handing out scholarships to new players that will fill the open spots for the players graduating, leaving early for the draft, or just leaving period.

I think the point about the small soccer stadia being built all over the country is actually a very astute one. I think those could serve as nice solutions for some of the smaller bowl games.

There are several baseball stadia hosting bowl games right now and I could see many of them shifting to some of those MLS stadia in places like Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, Orlando, San Jose, etc.

Yes, those facilities are small but as others have touched on already, these are basically made for television events anyway. A full stadium in Carson is going to look a lot better than those same number of people in a 90,000 seat stadium in Inglewood.

(06-11-2018 08:31 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I think the point about the small soccer stadia being built all over the country is actually a very astute one. I think those could serve as nice solutions for some of the smaller bowl games.

There are several baseball stadia hosting bowl games right now and I could see many of them shifting to some of those MLS stadia in places like Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, Orlando, San Jose, etc.

Yes, those facilities are small but as others have touched on already, these are basically made for television events anyway. A full stadium in Carson is going to look a lot better than those same number of people in a 90,000 seat stadium in Inglewood.

We already see that with the FCS title game being played in that soccer stadium north of Dallas. It does look better on TV to have a packed 20,000 seat stadium.

(06-11-2018 07:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  It works best as a G4 tournie. without AAC in it. 4 champs play for G4 title. If AAC gets TV deal in the 6 to 10 mil range, It is in a different league than them.

I don't see the point in making the G4 into a seeded tournament.

It would make sense for the G4 to do like the AAC and try to score a mid tier bowl for its champion.

https://mobile.twitter.com/markanderson6...5767126016


Does seem like we'll lose the Pac tie in.  Bet they move the second game after Christmas for the Pac tie vs the other P5 school.

(06-07-2018 10:10 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  So the MWC Champ will now play the 4th place Sun Belt team, and the MAC Champ will play the 2nd place Sun Belt team, while the Sun Belt Champ plays the 3rd place CUSA team...

Why the heck do we set up our bowls like this? So stupid...

Everyone will reshuffle their bowl assignments with the new Bowls and the dying bowls leaving. They always do.

Remember also new Bowls in pro-Stadiums, mean P5 schools will be abandoning Bowl games against G5 schools like the American and C-USA, opening up slots for other G5 schools. (Admittedly there are only 4 such mixed P5-G5 Bowls, but after the reshuffle that could fall to just 2 such Bowls).

(06-27-2018 12:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:10 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  So the MWC Champ will now play the 4th place Sun Belt team, and the MAC Champ will play the 2nd place Sun Belt team, while the Sun Belt Champ plays the 3rd place CUSA team...

Why the heck do we set up our bowls like this? So stupid...

Everyone will reshuffle their bowl assignments with the new Bowls and the dying bowls leaving. They always do.

Remember also new Bowls in pro-Stadiums, mean P5 schools will be abandoning Bowl games against G5 schools like the American and C-USA, opening up slots for other G5 schools. (Admittedly there are only 4 such mixed P5-G5 Bowls, but after the reshuffle that could fall to just 2 such Bowls).

Or it could go to zero---or it could increase. No way to know right now.