(06-06-2018 04:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The more I think about it, the more interesting Jose Cruz, Jr., seems to become. He has a lot of the advantages that Lance has, without the bathroom bill baggage. I'm not sure what the negatives are, but I'm sure someone will respond with them.

I still like Riser, have liked everything I've read or heard about him. Just not sure that's a fit.

Do we really think the bathroom bill thing is an issue? That vote wasn’t even close. My guess is that the baseball community doesn’t care about that topic.

(06-06-2018 04:50 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 04:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The more I think about it, the more interesting Jose Cruz, Jr., seems to become. He has a lot of the advantages that Lance has, without the bathroom bill baggage. I'm not sure what the negatives are, but I'm sure someone will respond with them.

I still like Riser, have liked everything I've read or heard about him. Just not sure that's a fit.

Do we really think the bathroom bill thing is an issue? That vote wasn’t even close. My guess is that the baseball community doesn’t care about that topic.

The Rice community is bigger than the Rice baseball community. Judging from the facebook thread that was deleted there would be some freakouts. How small and how vocal a minority I do not know.

(06-06-2018 04:50 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 04:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The more I think about it, the more interesting Jose Cruz, Jr., seems to become. He has a lot of the advantages that Lance has, without the bathroom bill baggage. I'm not sure what the negatives are, but I'm sure someone will respond with them.
I still like Riser, have liked everything I've read or heard about him. Just not sure that's a fit.

Do we really think the bathroom bill thing is an issue? That vote wasn’t even close. My guess is that the baseball community doesn’t care about that topic.

Go to the various Rice pages on Facebook. It's a big issue there.

It’s a sad day when there becomes a political test to become a baseball coach.

(06-06-2018 04:50 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 04:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The more I think about it, the more interesting Jose Cruz, Jr., seems to become. He has a lot of the advantages that Lance has, without the bathroom bill baggage. I'm not sure what the negatives are, but I'm sure someone will respond with them.

I still like Riser, have liked everything I've read or heard about him. Just not sure that's a fit.

Do we really think the bathroom bill thing is an issue? That vote wasn’t even close. My guess is that the baseball community doesn’t care about that topic.

It’s stupid that it’s even come up... but it has repeatedly on Twitter.

I assume Berkman could, if hired as coach, quickly and easily address his position on the bathroom bill that would assuage most people. He wouldn’t be hired to take political positions, and given his high-profile involvement in that issue, I think it is fair that any candidate agree to keep their politics to themselves when acting as head coach. I wouldn’t want Rice’s head baseball coach being an advocate for players kneeling during the national anthem any more than I want them being an advocate for or against LGBTQ issues. That just isn’t their role at the university.

Two other pro-Berkman points. He has long talked about coaching in college after his professional career was complete, so it isn’t like this is some half-considered scheme. Second, I don’t recall him being politically involved much beyond this single issue, so folks on the left seem to be blowing his role out of proportion, particularly when he wasn’t a Rice employee at the time. And I write that as a fellow “folk on the left.”

I would hope that if it is Berkman, there would be some sort of statement forthcoming about the bathroom issue. I would hope, equally, that such a statement would put it to rest.

I think it is abhorrent that political correctness can dictate a decision regarding employment that is totally unrelated to the political issue involved. Then again, I think of political correctness as the real life embodiment of George Orwell's Thought Police.

As someone who abhors bathroom bills and everything ridiculously stupid about them (they are unenforcable, we already have laws against crime in bathrooms, transgender people do not attack children in bathrooms with machetes and AK-47's, etc)...

...it would be very silly to hold one very uninformed opinion against Lance. Rice needs to hire the best candidate possible, regardless of any personal warts that have nothing to do with baseball. Many successful coaches in sports are controversial; I don't see anyone demeaning Belicheck for supporting Trump, and nor should I. If Berkman is the best candidate available with Saarloos not being an option, we should pull the trigger on him.

I am still a Riser supporter as well.

(06-06-2018 05:03 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 04:50 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 04:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The more I think about it, the more interesting Jose Cruz, Jr., seems to become. He has a lot of the advantages that Lance has, without the bathroom bill baggage. I'm not sure what the negatives are, but I'm sure someone will respond with them.

I still like Riser, have liked everything I've read or heard about him. Just not sure that's a fit.

Do we really think the bathroom bill thing is an issue? That vote wasn’t even close. My guess is that the baseball community doesn’t care about that topic.

It’s stupid that it’s even come up... but it has repeatedly on Twitter.

Again, there are major, big league donors of Rice athletics, Rice baseball and Rice University who have made it clear to both JK and Leebron that they will cut off funding if Berkman is named. I don't agree with such a stance, but I do know as a fact there are more than one important donor who has made that position clear.

(06-06-2018 04:59 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  Do we really think the bathroom bill thing is an issue? That vote wasn’t even close. My guess is that the baseball community doesn’t care about that topic.

The Rice community is bigger than the Rice baseball community. Judging from the facebook thread that was deleted there would be some freakouts. How small and how vocal a minority I do not know.
[/quote]

Appears the Rice community has forgotten their traditional academics is all there is culture in deference to the feel good Berkeley channeling lib culture.

(06-06-2018 06:53 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Again, there are major, big league donors of Rice athletics, Rice baseball and Rice University who have made it clear to both JK and Leebron that they will cut off funding if Berkman is named. I don't agree with such a stance, but I do know as a fact there are more than one important donor who has made that position clear.

and where exactly have these "big league donors" gotten us? Besides a bottom tier athletic program in a pathetic conference? If we win, I suspect there will be plenty of donors.

(06-06-2018 07:10 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 06:53 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Again, there are major, big league donors of Rice athletics, Rice baseball and Rice University who have made it clear to both JK and Leebron that they will cut off funding if Berkman is named. I don't agree with such a stance, but I do know as a fact there are more than one important donor who has made that position clear.

and where exactly have these "big league donors" gotten us? Besides a bottom tier athletic program in a pathetic conference? If we win, I suspect there will be plenty of donors.

And you could say the same thing about Tudor, Trauber and the pro-Berkman heavy-hitting donors.

(06-06-2018 07:10 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 06:53 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Again, there are major, big league donors of Rice athletics, Rice baseball and Rice University who have made it clear to both JK and Leebron that they will cut off funding if Berkman is named. I don't agree with such a stance, but I do know as a fact there are more than one important donor who has made that position clear.

and where exactly have these "big league donors" gotten us? Besides a bottom tier athletic program in a pathetic conference? If we win, I suspect there will be plenty of donors.

And if we learn the University passed on Lance specifcally to pacify such donors, I'm sure there are other donors who would stop their donations to protest the "you're allowed to think anyway you want as long as we agree with your thoughts" PC BS.

I know of one for sure.

(06-06-2018 05:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I would hope that if it is Berkman, there would be some sort of statement forthcoming about the bathroom issue. I would hope, equally, that such a statement would put it to rest.

I think it is abhorrent that political correctness can dictate a decision regarding employment that is totally unrelated to the political issue involved. Then again, I think of political correctness as the real life embodiment of George Orwell's Thought Police.

Why does he wait til he’s hired? If he wants the job and he’s this deep into a PR campaign unlike any other for the position...refute or clarify it now. I’m sure Twitter would love that story.

If you don't think this bathroom thing is a big deal at Rice, you don't know that place very well. As a part of Lance's campaign he has called donors asking for their support. I know he has heard that this is a problem and he just doesn't think he did anything wrong. That is the problem. In his adverts he equated trans to pedophilia. This has been done with gays and others who run afoul of Lance's brand of christianity. He made adverts. It is not just that he has these views that are widely considered to be ignorant and bigoted positions because plenty of people do who have no contact with gays or trans people, but he made adverts. At a school where master needs to become magister, do you really think this does not matter? Of course it does and it should. Every student, faculty member and alum needs to fell safe at Rice and welcomed. Gay athletes are no different. What does this say to them if the most prestigious athletic program is turned over to someone like Lance who has already made these political ads. I have told my children that when you get involved in social media you need to be careful because you don't get to hide from it or take it back. Someone should have explained this to Lance.

(06-06-2018 09:54 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  If you don't think this bathroom thing is a big deal at Rice, you don't know that place very well. As a part of Lance's campaign he has called donors asking for their support. I know he has heard that this is a problem and he just doesn't think he did anything wrong. That is the problem. In his adverts he equated trans to pedophilia. This has been done with gays and others who run afoul of Lance's brand of christianity. He made adverts. It is not just that he has these views that are widely considered to be ignorant and bigoted positions because plenty of people do who have no contact with gays or trans people, but he made adverts. At a school where master needs to become magister, do you really think this does not matter? Of course it does and it should. Every student, faculty member and alum needs to fell safe at Rice and welcomed. Gay athletes are no different. What does this say to them if the most prestigious athletic program is turned over to someone like Lance who has already made these political ads. I have told my children that when you get involved in social media you need to be careful because you don't get to hide from it or take it back. Someone should have explained this to Lance.

Given that >60% of Houston agreed with Lance, it shouldn’t be a disqualifying position.

Are we also going to banish any member of the Rice community who ever spoke against gay marriage in the 80’s or 90’s? We’d lose a lot of great people!

Times change!

I'm thinking that if it isn't announced by now, it's not going to be Berkman.

I think the bathroom bill stance is a big problem. If that in fact costs him the job, then I wonder how he would respond to a question of whether he would do it again, knowing that would cost him the Rice job.

I'm no fan of political correctness. To me it is George Orwell's Thought Police. But it's a fact of life, particularly in government or academia, and we ignore that at our peril.

(06-06-2018 10:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'm thinking that if it isn't announced by now, it's not going to be Berkman.

I think the bathroom bill stance is a big problem. If that in fact costs him the job, then I wonder how he would respond to a question of whether he would do it again, knowing that would cost him the Rice job.

I'm no fan of political correctness. To me it is George Orwell's Thought Police. But it's a fact of life, particularly in government or academia, and we ignore that at our peril.

If it is not Berkman or Riser, I think Ausmus or Cruz would be the best of the remaining names bandied about on the board.

(06-06-2018 09:54 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  If you don't think this bathroom thing is a big deal at Rice, you don't know that place very well. As a part of Lance's campaign he has called donors asking for their support. I know he has heard that this is a problem and he just doesn't think he did anything wrong. That is the problem. In his adverts he equated trans to pedophilia. This has been done with gays and others who run afoul of Lance's brand of christianity. He made adverts. It is not just that he has these views that are widely considered to be ignorant and bigoted positions because plenty of people do who have no contact with gays or trans people, but he made adverts. At a school where master needs to become magister, do you really think this does not matter? Of course it does and it should. Every student, faculty member and alum needs to fell safe at Rice and welcomed. Gay athletes are no different. What does this say to them if the most prestigious athletic program is turned over to someone like Lance who has already made these political ads. I have told my children that when you get involved in social media you need to be careful because you don't get to hide from it or take it back. Someone should have explained this to Lance.

The problem may be his overall personality. Not one thing he said or his Christianity. The Yankees and Rangers are two examples of clubhouses where he didn't rub people the right way. FWIW, I took Statistics with Lance as a freshman, and some athletic tutoring, and he was very down to earth then. But that was before all his success, he may feel too entitled to his opinion now to yield to an AD, and JK may not want that.

(06-06-2018 10:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 09:54 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  If you don't think this bathroom thing is a big deal at Rice, you don't know that place very well. As a part of Lance's campaign he has called donors asking for their support. I know he has heard that this is a problem and he just doesn't think he did anything wrong. That is the problem. In his adverts he equated trans to pedophilia. This has been done with gays and others who run afoul of Lance's brand of christianity. He made adverts. It is not just that he has these views that are widely considered to be ignorant and bigoted positions because plenty of people do who have no contact with gays or trans people, but he made adverts. At a school where master needs to become magister, do you really think this does not matter? Of course it does and it should. Every student, faculty member and alum needs to fell safe at Rice and welcomed. Gay athletes are no different. What does this say to them if the most prestigious athletic program is turned over to someone like Lance who has already made these political ads. I have told my children that when you get involved in social media you need to be careful because you don't get to hide from it or take it back. Someone should have explained this to Lance.

Given that >60% of Houston agreed with Lance, it shouldn’t be a disqualifying position.

Are we also going to banish any member of the Rice community who ever spoke against gay marriage in the 80’s or 90’s? We’d lose a lot of great people!

Times change!

*>60% of Houston voters.