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Western KY Struggling to keep up.
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ghostofclt Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-13-2018 08:46 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 03:19 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  It DOES matter because over time (3-6 years) things will start to decline slowly.The erosion of inflation,salaries,maintenance--not to mention other schools increasing their budgets.You could wake up in 2022 and be in a bad spot.Then it will take a lot of money to dig out of that hole and recapture lost successful athletic momentum.

Exactly.

In 2008, North Texas has bad athletic leadership, and we were playing FBS football on the cheap. We paid a highs school coach about $275,000 a year. We had one of the worst football stadiums in the nation. And, we had an annual athletic budget of only $16 million. Our competitive advantage in the Sun Belt was gone, and no one cared that we had won 26 straight conference games and appeared in the first 4 New Orleans bowls. We had not invested in our athletics and our once proud team finished 1-11 that season (oddly, our only win that season came at WKU).

In less then a decade, North Texas has more then doubled our athletic budget (over $34 million), and built a new stadium, and been to 3 bowls in our 5 seasons in C-USA. We won our division last season, and expect to contend for it again this year. This season our basketball got back on track (won 20 games and the CBI Tournament) and we are winning a fair portion of championships in the Olympic sports. Lack of money put us at a bad disadvantage, and smart investment of fund has placed us back in a good position.

I don't want any C-USA program to fall behind like we did a decade ago. That would be bad for the whole conference. In every conference there are bigger spenders, and that is fine as long as all parties are within a few million dollars of each other. Some might laugh at this but I believe within the next 10 years some of our universities could have athletic budgets close to $50 million a year, and quite a few in the $40 million range. I can't see how any program might hope to remain competitive on the field, in facilities, and amenities with a budget of close to $20 million less then most.

clt says Charlotte will see a significant bump with our new AD.
06-14-2018 05:20 PM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-14-2018 04:43 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 10:25 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 05:28 PM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:41 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  It's sad. But I guess when we have double the championships then the second closest school we are doing the most with the least.

If you look at the article the 2017-18 season was not good for you guys as far as championships go. The author seems to be insinuating that this is the start of a downward trend.

Football yes, men's basketball no, so try again....

Tightening the purse strings could increase the likelihood of Stans not hanging around long.

We have always had private funds raised if we tried to keep a coach, but it doesn't matter even if our budget was rolling, could never match SEC money......I am hoping Stansbury since he has already done the SEC coach thing he is contempt remaining at WKU.....IF he left of course no one will be surprised just gives me hope he a is a little older and already has P5 coaching experience which is different then Felton, Horn, Willard.
06-15-2018 08:27 AM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-15-2018 08:27 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 04:43 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 10:25 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 05:28 PM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:41 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  It's sad. But I guess when we have double the championships then the second closest school we are doing the most with the least.

If you look at the article the 2017-18 season was not good for you guys as far as championships go. The author seems to be insinuating that this is the start of a downward trend.

Football yes, men's basketball no, so try again....

Tightening the purse strings could increase the likelihood of Stans not hanging around long.

We have always had private funds raised if we tried to keep a coach, but it doesn't matter even if our budget was rolling, could never match SEC money......I am hoping Stansbury since he has already done the SEC coach thing he is contempt remaining at WKU.....IF he left of course no one will be surprised just gives me hope he a is a little older and already has P5 coaching experience which is different then Felton, Horn, Willard.

I was thinking more like his operational budget, recruiting, assistant pool et al
06-15-2018 08:53 AM
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MT FAN Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-14-2018 10:25 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 05:28 PM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:41 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  It's sad. But I guess when we have double the championships then the second closest school we are doing the most with the least.

If you look at the article the 2017-18 season was not good for you guys as far as championships go. The author seems to be insinuating that this is the start of a downward trend.

Football yes, men's basketball no, so try again....

How many regular season or tournament championships has men's basketball team won since being in CUSA?
06-15-2018 09:29 AM
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Jacque Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-15-2018 09:29 AM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 10:25 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 05:28 PM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:41 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  It's sad. But I guess when we have double the championships then the second closest school we are doing the most with the least.

If you look at the article the 2017-18 season was not good for you guys as far as championships go. The author seems to be insinuating that this is the start of a downward trend.

Football yes, men's basketball no, so try again....

How many regular season or tournament championships has men's basketball team won since being in CUSA?

Zero. However, the statement was made that mbb was not on a downward trend, not that WKU was dominating the league. So your snarky question was not at all relevant to the discussion.
I would think that you would agree that WKU mbb is in a better place now than it was 3 or 4 years ago. That was what the comment referred to.
06-15-2018 09:46 AM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-15-2018 09:46 AM)Jacque Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 09:29 AM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 10:25 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 05:28 PM)MT FAN Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:41 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  It's sad. But I guess when we have double the championships then the second closest school we are doing the most with the least.

If you look at the article the 2017-18 season was not good for you guys as far as championships go. The author seems to be insinuating that this is the start of a downward trend.

Football yes, men's basketball no, so try again....

How many regular season or tournament championships has men's basketball team won since being in CUSA?

Zero. However, the statement was made that mbb was not on a downward trend, not that WKU was dominating the league. So your snarky question was not at all relevant to the discussion.
I would think that you would agree that WKU mbb is in a better place now than it was 3 or 4 years ago. That was what the comment referred to.

Wouldn't waste your time on this guy, he is one of the few MTSU guys obsessed with WKU and will always throw little digs when he can...I am sure he has a shrine set up in his mom's basement praying every day Bassey does not end up playing for us...
06-15-2018 11:41 AM
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blazer-J Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-14-2018 04:46 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 02:35 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  I think you'd see Marshall take drastic measures before they'd let anything happen to fb or mbb. I think that if everything goes wrong that could, Marshall would:

1. Drop all other men's sports
2. Keep only enough women's sport to remain Title IX compliant
3. Explore ways to regionalize

Division 1 requires a minimum sponsorship of seven men's sports and seven women's sports.

I think it can be 6 men's and 8 women's.
We only had 6 men's sports until recently (added rifle).
06-15-2018 01:15 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-15-2018 01:15 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 04:46 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 02:35 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  I think you'd see Marshall take drastic measures before they'd let anything happen to fb or mbb. I think that if everything goes wrong that could, Marshall would:

1. Drop all other men's sports
2. Keep only enough women's sport to remain Title IX compliant
3. Explore ways to regionalize

Division 1 requires a minimum sponsorship of seven men's sports and seven women's sports.

I think it can be 6 men's and 8 women's.
We only had 6 men's sports until recently (added rifle).

There's some nebulous wording, at any rate, "drop all other men's sports" simply wouldn't be an option.
06-15-2018 01:35 PM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
MTSU may not field a men's basketball team, lost 3 transfers today....
06-15-2018 03:03 PM
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Jack Bauer Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
Who did they lose? Couldn’t find anything
06-15-2018 03:13 PM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-15-2018 03:13 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  Who did they lose? Couldn’t find anything

Ty Dixon, Antwain Johnson and Ed Simpson....This combined with the 3 or 4 guys the lost that Kermit had, graduation of King and other senior I am not sure who they have left? They may not win 10 games this season...We owe them two beat downs this years!
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2018 03:23 PM by WKUFan518.)
06-15-2018 03:22 PM
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WKUAlum92 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-15-2018 03:13 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  Who did they lose? Couldn’t find anything

Tyrik Dixon, Antwain Johnson, David Simmons, and Davion Thomas.
06-15-2018 07:15 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-14-2018 04:46 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 02:35 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  I think you'd see Marshall take drastic measures before they'd let anything happen to fb or mbb. I think that if everything goes wrong that could, Marshall would:

1. Drop all other men's sports
2. Keep only enough women's sport to remain Title IX compliant
3. Explore ways to regionalize

Division 1 requires a minimum sponsorship of seven men's sports and seven women's sports.

Welp, there goes that idea then. Lol. Thanks for the information.
06-16-2018 08:00 AM
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Jack Bauer Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
We might not play the muts twice this year. Probably won’t be in the top tier bubble
06-16-2018 08:57 AM
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Luckyshot Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-16-2018 08:57 AM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  We might not play the muts twice this year. Probably won’t be in the top tier bubble

I thought each team still had one permanent rival and MTSU was yours?
06-16-2018 09:39 AM
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CoachMaclid Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-14-2018 02:35 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  I think you'd see Marshall take drastic measures before they'd let anything happen to fb or mbb. I think that if everything goes wrong that could, Marshall would:

1. Drop all other men's sports
2. Keep only enough women's sport to remain Title IX compliant
3. Explore ways to regionalize

These options aren't feasible as Marshall is already at the minimum number of Division I sports and divided in a way to meet Title IX. However, Marshall's not quite in the same boat here for two reasons...

1.) Marshall is among the leaders in the entire G5 for having the least percentage of total budget subsidizes and a higher percentage generated from organic revenue. In fact, in current CUSA, only Marshall, Southern Miss, and LaTech generate the majority of their budget dollars organically rather than through subsidized funding.

2.) Marshall receives virtually no funding from direct appropriation from the state. Almost the entirety of the subsidized funding comes from student fees and tuition waivers the state has allowed proportionately for the state's universities. The two daggers to Marshall would be if West Virginia passes legislation to prohibit funding athletics with student fees (which is being debated in a few states) or if the state decides that the tuition waivers can only be used in lieu of academic scholarships (as WVU does, but Marshall uses this to bridge the gap in scholarship funding). If those restrictions were to be put in place, then Marshall would be hurting. Since there is no direct funding from the state in forms of appropriation for athletics, its a slightly different situation than what some others are facing.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2018 09:43 AM by CoachMaclid.)
06-16-2018 09:42 AM
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CoachMaclid Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-16-2018 09:39 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-16-2018 08:57 AM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  We might not play the muts twice this year. Probably won’t be in the top tier bubble

I thought each team still had one permanent rival and MTSU was yours?

In basketball, WKU and Marshall are travel partners, and the team to play twice is the travel partner. MTSU's travel partner is UAB in basketball.
06-16-2018 09:44 AM
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Luckyshot Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-16-2018 09:44 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  
(06-16-2018 09:39 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(06-16-2018 08:57 AM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  We might not play the muts twice this year. Probably won’t be in the top tier bubble

I thought each team still had one permanent rival and MTSU was yours?

In basketball, WKU and Marshall are travel partners, and the team to play twice is the travel partner. MTSU's travel partner is UAB in basketball.

Gotcha, thanks :)
06-16-2018 09:51 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #59
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
(06-16-2018 09:42 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 02:35 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  I think you'd see Marshall take drastic measures before they'd let anything happen to fb or mbb. I think that if everything goes wrong that could, Marshall would:

1. Drop all other men's sports
2. Keep only enough women's sport to remain Title IX compliant
3. Explore ways to regionalize

These options aren't feasible as Marshall is already at the minimum number of Division I sports and divided in a way to meet Title IX. However, Marshall's not quite in the same boat here for two reasons...

1.) Marshall is among the leaders in the entire G5 for having the least percentage of total budget subsidizes and a higher percentage generated from organic revenue. In fact, in current CUSA, only Marshall, Southern Miss, and LaTech generate the majority of their budget dollars organically rather than through subsidized funding.

2.) Marshall receives virtually no funding from direct appropriation from the state. Almost the entirety of the subsidized funding comes from student fees and tuition waivers the state has allowed proportionately for the state's universities. The two daggers to Marshall would be if West Virginia passes legislation to prohibit funding athletics with student fees (which is being debated in a few states) or if the state decides that the tuition waivers can only be used in lieu of academic scholarships (as WVU does, but Marshall uses this to bridge the gap in scholarship funding). If those restrictions were to be put in place, then Marshall would be hurting. Since there is no direct funding from the state in forms of appropriation for athletics, its a slightly different situation than what some others are facing.

See that is where you are mistaken because you are talking % of the budget. But when you do a per student avg Marshall is in the upper tier of CUSA.

Marshall's low student enrollment is whats keeping the % down. Marshall receives $13,762,424 for student fees and school funds with a student enrollment of 13,321 (2015). Now I dont know if that is the correct number but its the number that pops up on google .

So per student that equal $1033

Lets go with FIU and they get around 23 million of their 29+ million budget from student fees and the school. With a enrollment of 55,000 that comes out to $418 per student.

So FIU actually is in better shape because they still have room to double their budget by getting up to Marshall's level of student funding. Lets not play game with student fees and school funding.....

it all goes into the total amount a student pays to go to school their. The only difference a student fees goes directly to the AD. Tuition into the general funds.

But if someone still wants to argue student fees are different. Marshall (381)is still a few dollars high on student fees than FIU (365). And if each school added $50 a year to that fee

That's 2.7 million for FIU and only $666,050 for Marshall so using a % of a budget is not a good way to look at funding.

I'm using the numbers from USA today so if you disagree give me a link to the numbers you used.


As far as Marshall not receiving state funding....this article said Marshall had $2.5 million cut in state appropriations in 2015 and a total of $9 million from 2013 to 2015
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/mars...853b7.html

(edit) after farther checking Marshall gets 64 million from the state or 21% of the overall budget. Western is at 74 million from the state, 17% of the overall budget. Both school are flat on enrollment numbers. Western had a pension increase of $7,263,300 that hurt the most.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2018 11:05 AM by WKUYG.)
06-16-2018 10:10 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #60
RE: Western KY Struggling to keep up.
One other thing about student fees and the per student vs overall % . While Marshall and Western are steady at their current enrollment numbers FIU is still growing. FIU had a 43% increase over the past decade and a projected enrollment of 58,351 students by 2020. If FIU reaches that that adds another $1,209,711 to their budget just from the current student fee of 361.

The in state Tuition and Fees at Marshall is $7,798, Western $10,202 and FIU $6,556. So while the % of a budget might be larger a school like FIU has more room to grow their budget just off the student enrollment and without raising their fees. Than A Marshall or Western. And FIU has a larger pool to draw students from.

So again % is the least important way to look at a budget with room to grow
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2018 11:31 AM by WKUYG.)
06-16-2018 11:24 AM
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