https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018...tim-draper

It looks like this ballot initiative is only supported by 17% of California voters and would have several legal hurdles to overcome even if it passed. But it's still an interesting what-if

The proposal would create 3 states, North California that would include San Franciso. South California that includes San Diego and Fresno. And just plain California that would include Los Angeles.

These names suck imo. Can you imagine how this would affect the existing university system in California.

UC-Berkley UC-LA and UC-SD would split into 3 different systems. Instead it would be UNC-Berkley, UCLA And USC-San Diego.

USC would probably have to change its name to avoid confusion. Maybe UWC - University of Western California instead.

I saw that earlier today. Those three would still probably be three of the most powerful states in the country economically. However, it still seems like an off-the-wall idea to me. I would need to learn more but on its face I can’t see why the people of California would ever do this?

The same man who got this on the ballot previously tried (and failed) in 2014 to have ballot issue which would've broken California into six states.

It's a long shot to pass since both the GOP and Dems oppose it, plus Congress woykd have to approve it.

It also doesn't help that some national parks would split the new states.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-gov...01129.html

https://www.sacbee.com/news/article213132499.html

Too bad the ocean won't just annex the entire GD state.

Let me guess? The new states would be named Norte Sinaloa, Oz, and La La Land.

(06-13-2018 10:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I saw that earlier today. Those three would still probably be three of the most powerful states in the country economically. However, it still seems like an off-the-wall idea to me. I would need to learn more but on its face I can’t see why the people of California would ever do this?

Tim Draper, author of the ballot measure, claims the state government is broken, but a positive consequence would be basically extra senators and changing the Electoral College to benefit the GOP.

Last week's, "Revisionist History" podcast from Malcolm Gladwell talked about how Texas should've tried this in 2003-4 based on a Kesavan and Paulsen essay.

Actually it would not work the way he'd expect. Two of the States would be well left of center an produce 4 Democrat Senators. The 3rd one would be purple like Oregon, although initially a reddish purple, but likely turning blueish very quickly for the same reason Oregon did, a lower tax haven for Californians. So you'd likely add 3 Democrat and 1 Republican Senator.

But here is the blunt truth, there is no deep division in California expect in the Jefferson Movement; not sure they are even a majority in the counties they claim, but they are significant in the "Northstate". This movement has real roots and a long history and actually has a slight chance of someday happening. (Some issues for sure have to be ironed out, but most of us would say good luck, you're on your own, and the actual counties that would split may be slightly different ... can't see Del Norte or Humboldt remaining and would be surprised if the Sacramento suburb dominated Placer split or some of the farther south mountain counties split, as they have no access to to the North such as Amador and Calaveras)

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...story.html

The demographics are enlightening:
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-th...on-census/

Jefferson: 1,738,337 people, 73% White
California*: 38,071,356 people 37% White

* California numbers not counting Jefferson (numbers taken from Jan 1, 2018 census estimate; total population was 39,809,693, but now maybe >40m as I write)

It'd be Trump country for awhile anyway, much like Idaho. But it would have it's liberal bastions in Chico and Humboldt, and once a State Capitol was established, likely in Redding or Shasta, that would start to be a destination for Californians to move to much like Portland and Seattle are now, changing the demographics over time.

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But as for the ballot measure, the divisions the authors of it see are invisible to those of us living here. Conservatively, you could see 4 or 5 of the remaining GOP House seats flipped this fall. It's been a very long time since Orange or San Diego counties were majority white. This will get voted down maybe by a massive margin, >75% is likely. Amazing who insane the GOP looks in California.

(06-13-2018 10:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I saw that earlier today. Those three would still probably be three of the most powerful states in the country economically. However, it still seems like an off-the-wall idea to me. I would need to learn more but on its face I can’t see why the people of California would ever do this?

It would address some of the natural anti-democratic structure of the US Senate. i.e. - the resulting states would have 3 times as much power in the Senate and more power in the electoral college.

Clearly this is a purely symbolic effort. California doesn't have the power to do this. Only Congress does, and they aren't likely to give California four more Senators and four more votes in the Electoral College.[/b]

(06-14-2018 01:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  Clearly this is a purely symbolic effort. California doesn't have the power to do this. Only Congress does, and they aren't likely to give California four more Senators and four more votes in the Electoral College.[/b]

It's symbolic suicide for the remnant of the CAGOP.

The elected and hoping to be elected officials in the party are scrambling to align with the Democrats to shoot this down. But everyone knows this is a kooky idea by a wing of the Republican party in California that is living in an alternate universe.

I am increasingly convinced the Republican party is dead in California, never to rise again. It has embraced anti-Hispanic and anti-Asian rhetoric for too long and kooky ideas that make it impossible to revive.

As for Congress, if a State really wants to split it could. The balancing blue State is sitting there in Puerto Rico.

(06-14-2018 01:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  Clearly this is a purely symbolic effort. California doesn't have the power to do this. Only Congress does, and they aren't likely to give California four more Senators and four more votes in the Electoral College.

It's on the ballot - I think he's serious. If it doesn't pass, it will probably be on the next ballot as well. If/when it passes, Congress will have to acknowledge it and deal with it.