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North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #121
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
I knew a guy that has been to Vietnam to help identify remains. This should not be a political football. I wonder if people understand the practical logistics involved. It won't be a fast process.
07-10-2018 10:08 AM
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Post: #122
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 09:33 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Even if that were true, it's not, the return of are long lost war dead from Korea has zip and pip to do with it. I don't understand why you're trying to tie the two together other than a purposeful trap.
And if you listened to all of what Bill Maher said, and how he explained it even further the next week, you'd know your take is nonsense.
On the other hand, to me, no amount of economic success is worth giving up your standing and integrity for. That's my main issue with trump. He's a cancer to American decency and a disgrace to our country in the way he comports himself.

It's called a hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand your position. I think thou doth protest too much, and that implies your true position pretty strongly.

And what did Maher say--before, during, or after his rant--that conflicted with my take?

We've had cancers to American decency in the White House before, and came out of it okay. Trump's style is different from what we are accustomed to. He reminds me of the Rodney Dangerfield character in Caddyshack.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2018 10:23 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-10-2018 10:13 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #123
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 10:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He reminds me of the Rodney Dangerfield character in Caddyshack.

Now you've done it. IGNORING! 03-wink
07-10-2018 11:21 AM
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Post: #124
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
I'm perfectly fine with Trump or any other official embarrassing himself in order to accomplish the goals of our country, including growing the economy and getting war dead returned. Sure, all other things being equal I'd prefer a polished leader, which is why I didn't vote for Trump... but I'd MUCH prefer a buffoon who gets those things done to a more polished candidate who doesn't... which is why I would have voted for Trump over Hillary if I'd had to.

That's why I've routinely asked the left to juxtapose what a buffoon Trump is with the 'value' of a photo op for Un, and I suspect in some ways, why people like Owl ask if one would prefer nuclear war and no Trump to Trump and peace.

Lots of people throw around the 'team before country' line... and this is the same thing.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2018 11:49 AM by Hambone10.)
07-10-2018 11:48 AM
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Post: #125
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!
07-10-2018 01:19 PM
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Post: #126
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!

Great... thanks.... at least we agree there is a line...

Now, would you prefer 'no Trump' or the return of these remains?

You've essentially said that you prefer no trump AND the return... but the question essentially argues that neither party has to this point been very effective in accomplishing the latter... so if Trump 'lying' (by describing it as a done deal) and 'giving Un a platform' (by meeting with him and speaking in positive terms) accomplishes what they couldn't, is it worth it to you?

and debating the opposite, if it accomplishes nothing in the end, what really have we lost by trying a different approach?
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2018 02:02 PM by Hambone10.)
07-10-2018 02:01 PM
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Post: #127
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 02:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!

Great... thanks.... at least we agree there is a line...

Now, would you prefer 'no Trump' or the return of these remains?

You've essentially said that you prefer no trump AND the return... but the question essentially argues that neither party has to this point been very effective in accomplishing the latter... so if Trump 'lying' (by describing it as a done deal) and 'giving Un a platform' (by meeting with him and speaking in positive terms) accomplishes what they couldn't, is it worth it to you?

and debating the opposite, if it accomplishes nothing in the end, what really have we lost by trying a different approach?

Being rid of trump, in my opinion, would be much more beneficial to this country than just returning the remains of deceased heroes. But they still can both happen any way.

May sound cold, but getting back the remains does little for our country as a whole in regards to the economy and/or national security.

Granted, no party has been very successful in this endeavor, but if you refer to the article I posted about the one guy we just identified, it talks about 1954 when some remains were returned as well as in 2005 where the 37th Joint Field Activity was conducted and remains (including Sgt. Hall's) were returned to Hawaii, so there has been "some" success in the past.

All that being said, if we do get the remains of 200 heroes back trump deserves congratulations for that. I just choose to wait until they are actually back. And again, the meeting was sold by trump as denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, not as securing the remains of war dead, so we need to keep that in perspective here.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2018 02:27 PM by Redwingtom.)
07-10-2018 02:26 PM
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Post: #128
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 02:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!

Great... thanks.... at least we agree there is a line...

Now, would you prefer 'no Trump' or the return of these remains?

You've essentially said that you prefer no trump AND the return... but the question essentially argues that neither party has to this point been very effective in accomplishing the latter... so if Trump 'lying' (by describing it as a done deal) and 'giving Un a platform' (by meeting with him and speaking in positive terms) accomplishes what they couldn't, is it worth it to you?

and debating the opposite, if it accomplishes nothing in the end, what really have we lost by trying a different approach?

Being rid of trump, in my opinion, would be much more beneficial to this country than just returning the remains of deceased heroes. But they still can both happen any way.

May sound cold, but getting back the remains does little for our country as a whole in regards to the economy and/or national security.

Granted, no party has been very successful in this endeavor, but if you refer to the article I posted about the one guy we just identified, it talks about 1954 when some remains were returned as well as in 2005 where the 37th Joint Field Activity was conducted and remains (including Sgt. Hall's) were returned to Hawaii, so there has been "some" success in the past.

All that being said, if we do get the remains of 200 heroes back trump deserves congratulations for that. I just choose to wait until they are actually back. And again, the meeting was sold by trump as denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, not as securing the remains of war dead, so we need to keep that in perspective here.

First, thank you for responding. You really didn't answer the specific question I posed, but we're beyond that. For clarity only, what I was asking was are you okay with Trump 'lying' (speaking presumptively) about having already received the remains and giving Un some face time if it brings the dead home? These are specific complaints by the left... and I'm asking if those ends would justify the means... or whether you insist that Trump be less presumptive, even if it means the remains don't come home. It is not a broader political question.

Second and really what is important, it was NOT REMOTELY sold by Trump as a denuclearization. It was perhaps sold by Trump as a step towards that. NOBODY with an ounce of intelligence thinks that you simply turn off nuclear programs in a weekend meeting. Trump has very clearly said that there are all sorts of hurdles before we even THINK about ending embargoes etc. I find it funny that you sit here and talk about Trump lying, while routinely accepting lies from the left.

HERE is more what Trump has said...
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said getting North Korea to dismantle its nuclear and missile programs is a "decades long challenge," as President Donald Trump said Monday he remains confident Kim Jong Un will follow through on his pledges to do so.
Those quotes are from CNN... repeated by almost everyone. Yes, Trump has spoken presumptively, but he has NEVER sold the meeting as denuclearization... but merely a commitment to do so.

We have nukes as does the UK and even Russia, but nobody is really under threat of using them, unless perhaps others like NK use them first. Trump DID place NK in that category, again, presumptively... but he didn't say 'mission accomplished' any more than Obama did with Iran and their nuclear capabilities.

The difference is, Trump hasn't ended anything and can easily put back in place everything that he pushed back (war games)... while Obama gave up his Ace.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2018 10:05 PM by Hambone10.)
07-10-2018 10:03 PM
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Post: #129
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 02:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!

Great... thanks.... at least we agree there is a line...

Now, would you prefer 'no Trump' or the return of these remains?

You've essentially said that you prefer no trump AND the return... but the question essentially argues that neither party has to this point been very effective in accomplishing the latter... so if Trump 'lying' (by describing it as a done deal) and 'giving Un a platform' (by meeting with him and speaking in positive terms) accomplishes what they couldn't, is it worth it to you?

and debating the opposite, if it accomplishes nothing in the end, what really have we lost by trying a different approach?

Being rid of trump, in my opinion, would be much more beneficial to this country than just returning the remains of deceased heroes.

Thank you for answering my question.
07-10-2018 10:20 PM
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Post: #130
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 02:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!

Great... thanks.... at least we agree there is a line...

Now, would you prefer 'no Trump' or the return of these remains?

You've essentially said that you prefer no trump AND the return... but the question essentially argues that neither party has to this point been very effective in accomplishing the latter... so if Trump 'lying' (by describing it as a done deal) and 'giving Un a platform' (by meeting with him and speaking in positive terms) accomplishes what they couldn't, is it worth it to you?

and debating the opposite, if it accomplishes nothing in the end, what really have we lost by trying a different approach?

Being rid of trump, in my opinion, would be much more beneficial to this country than just returning the remains of deceased heroes. But they still can both happen any way.

May sound cold, but getting back the remains does little for our country as a whole in regards to the economy and/or national security.

Granted, no party has been very successful in this endeavor, but if you refer to the article I posted about the one guy we just identified, it talks about 1954 when some remains were returned as well as in 2005 where the 37th Joint Field Activity was conducted and remains (including Sgt. Hall's) were returned to Hawaii, so there has been "some" success in the past.

All that being said, if we do get the remains of 200 heroes back trump deserves congratulations for that. I just choose to wait until they are actually back. And again, the meeting was sold by trump as denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, not as securing the remains of war dead, so we need to keep that in perspective here.

Quote:Between 1990 and 2005, North Korea returned 229 caskets containing the remains of American soldiers, and repatriated another six soldiers in 2007. In 2015, North Korea returned the remains of Robert V. Witt, an American soldier who was taken prisoner and died of malnutrition in Jan. 1951, after his identity was confirmed with DNA tests.

http://time.com/5318121/president-trump-...s-remains/
07-10-2018 10:27 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #131
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-10-2018 10:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 02:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 02:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If there's anyone who prefers a nuclear war over trump, they're a moron who just needs to exit the stage in any direction they so choose!

Great... thanks.... at least we agree there is a line...

Now, would you prefer 'no Trump' or the return of these remains?

You've essentially said that you prefer no trump AND the return... but the question essentially argues that neither party has to this point been very effective in accomplishing the latter... so if Trump 'lying' (by describing it as a done deal) and 'giving Un a platform' (by meeting with him and speaking in positive terms) accomplishes what they couldn't, is it worth it to you?

and debating the opposite, if it accomplishes nothing in the end, what really have we lost by trying a different approach?

Being rid of trump, in my opinion, would be much more beneficial to this country than just returning the remains of deceased heroes. But they still can both happen any way.

May sound cold, but getting back the remains does little for our country as a whole in regards to the economy and/or national security.

Granted, no party has been very successful in this endeavor, but if you refer to the article I posted about the one guy we just identified, it talks about 1954 when some remains were returned as well as in 2005 where the 37th Joint Field Activity was conducted and remains (including Sgt. Hall's) were returned to Hawaii, so there has been "some" success in the past.

All that being said, if we do get the remains of 200 heroes back trump deserves congratulations for that. I just choose to wait until they are actually back. And again, the meeting was sold by trump as denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, not as securing the remains of war dead, so we need to keep that in perspective here.

First, thank you for responding. You really didn't answer the specific question I posed, but we're beyond that. For clarity only, what I was asking was are you okay with Trump 'lying' (speaking presumptively) about having already received the remains and giving Un some face time if it brings the dead home? These are specific complaints by the left... and I'm asking if those ends would justify the means... or whether you insist that Trump be less presumptive, even if it means the remains don't come home. It is not a broader political question.

Second and really what is important, it was NOT REMOTELY sold by Trump as a denuclearization. It was perhaps sold by Trump as a step towards that. NOBODY with an ounce of intelligence thinks that you simply turn off nuclear programs in a weekend meeting. Trump has very clearly said that there are all sorts of hurdles before we even THINK about ending embargoes etc. I find it funny that you sit here and talk about Trump lying, while routinely accepting lies from the left.

HERE is more what Trump has said...
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said getting North Korea to dismantle its nuclear and missile programs is a "decades long challenge," as President Donald Trump said Monday he remains confident Kim Jong Un will follow through on his pledges to do so.
Those quotes are from CNN... repeated by almost everyone. Yes, Trump has spoken presumptively, but he has NEVER sold the meeting as denuclearization... but merely a commitment to do so.

We have nukes as does the UK and even Russia, but nobody is really under threat of using them, unless perhaps others like NK use them first. Trump DID place NK in that category, again, presumptively... but he didn't say 'mission accomplished' any more than Obama did with Iran and their nuclear capabilities.

The difference is, Trump hasn't ended anything and can easily put back in place everything that he pushed back (war games)... while Obama gave up his Ace.

I'll just leave these here:


07-11-2018 08:52 AM
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Post: #132
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
Would you RWT, or would you not, agree that tensions with N. Korea have been dialed way back?
07-11-2018 09:21 AM
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Post: #133
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-11-2018 09:21 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Would you RWT, or would you not, agree that tensions with N. Korea have been dialed way back?

I never much bought into the fact that there were any tensions really. Un was just saber rattling mostly so he could develop a deliverable nuke to somewhere. I don't think he has or will have any time soon something capable of reaching the US.

Even though he's an unstable mad man (I'm talking about Un...lol) I NEVER have believed he will launch a nuke as it would result in the total destruction of him and his country. He's not that stupid...close, but not quite.

So bottom line, since he now has nukes, there's not much reason for tensions IMHO, so I credit them mostly with deescalation in rhetoric, not trump. Sorry. So I don't think trump has much to do with this at all. It's been more the natural progression of these things.

Again, if trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations. So far, he's gotten nothing even close to that. Mostly because they already have nukes and they'd be moronic to give them up now.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2018 10:28 AM by Redwingtom.)
07-11-2018 10:26 AM
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Post: #134
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-11-2018 10:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-11-2018 09:21 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Would you RWT, or would you not, agree that tensions with N. Korea have been dialed way back?

I never much bought into the fact that there were any tensions really. Un was just saber rattling mostly so he could develop a deliverable nuke to somewhere. I don't think he has or will have any time soon something capable of reaching the US.

Even though he's an unstable mad man (I'm talking about Un...lol) I NEVER have believed he will launch a nuke as it would result in the total destruction of him and his country. He's not that stupid...close, but not quite.

So bottom line, since he now has nukes, there's not much reason for tensions IMHO, so I credit them mostly with deescalation in rhetoric, not trump. Sorry. So I don't think trump has much to do with this at all. It's been more the natural progression of these things.

Again, if trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations. So far, he's gotten nothing even close to that. Mostly because they already have nukes and they'd be moronic to give them up now.

I figured it would be next to impossible for you to say, yes or no, but I didn't expect a War & Peace version. I should have known better.

And there you go again with another weasel, intellectually-dishonest, assertion that you'll congratulate Trump for anything. "If trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations".

Guess who gets to be the judge of what's anywhere close, and guess who will likely never have to swallow that bad clam?
07-11-2018 10:51 AM
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Post: #135
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-11-2018 10:51 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(07-11-2018 10:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-11-2018 09:21 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Would you RWT, or would you not, agree that tensions with N. Korea have been dialed way back?

I never much bought into the fact that there were any tensions really. Un was just saber rattling mostly so he could develop a deliverable nuke to somewhere. I don't think he has or will have any time soon something capable of reaching the US.

Even though he's an unstable mad man (I'm talking about Un...lol) I NEVER have believed he will launch a nuke as it would result in the total destruction of him and his country. He's not that stupid...close, but not quite.

So bottom line, since he now has nukes, there's not much reason for tensions IMHO, so I credit them mostly with deescalation in rhetoric, not trump. Sorry. So I don't think trump has much to do with this at all. It's been more the natural progression of these things.

Again, if trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations. So far, he's gotten nothing even close to that. Mostly because they already have nukes and they'd be moronic to give them up now.

I figured it would be next to impossible for you to say, yes or no, but I didn't expect a War & Peace version. I should have known better.

And there you go again with another weasel, intellectually-dishonest, assertion that you'll congratulate Trump for anything. "If trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations".

Guess who gets to be the judge of what's anywhere close, and guess who will likely never have to swallow that bad clam?

Yes, clearly this issue both sides of the political spectrum have been dealing with for decades should be confined to one word responses. 01-wingedeagle
07-11-2018 12:25 PM
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Post: #136
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
First Tom, those two tweets are not all that was said....

Second, nothing in those tweets talks about N. Korea denuclearizing. In fact, your second piece of evidence actually refutes any claim to that that the first might have implied. It seems clear that the 'nuclear threat' in tweet 1 was missile launches and nuclear bomb tests from tweet 2... and not what you imply, that they no longer have any such capability.

Tweet 1 says 'potential for the future' and tweet 2 says 'it is going well' (meaning it's not over) and 'in the meantime' (again, implying that it's not over)


I find it interesting that you quote Trump saying all of Asia is thrilled, and then you revert back to saber rattling and how they can't reach us....

Well, they CAN reach Japan, evidenced by the missiles that have flown there under (mostly?) Obama... and they CAN detonate a device, evidenced by the ones they detonated (again, mostly? under Obama)... so again, you're quoting him, but not reading what he says.

Remember that we have an agreement with Japan which should N. Korea attack them, we must defend... which puts China potentially against us. THAT could get ugly quickly. If that doesn't concern you given the crazy antics we've seen from Un and his father, then I don't know how to help you.

I find it funny that you call Un a mad man and then expect him to act rationally when it comes to death. He's been raised his whole life as the supreme leader... almost Godlike. Don't be surprised for a minute if he doesn't think suicide bombers 72 virgins is chicken feed as compared to what he has waiting in death. I don't know that, obviously never met the man, but your two comments are at odds.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2018 12:52 PM by Hambone10.)
07-11-2018 12:50 PM
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Post: #137
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
(07-11-2018 12:25 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-11-2018 10:51 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  
(07-11-2018 10:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-11-2018 09:21 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Would you RWT, or would you not, agree that tensions with N. Korea have been dialed way back?

I never much bought into the fact that there were any tensions really. Un was just saber rattling mostly so he could develop a deliverable nuke to somewhere. I don't think he has or will have any time soon something capable of reaching the US.

Even though he's an unstable mad man (I'm talking about Un...lol) I NEVER have believed he will launch a nuke as it would result in the total destruction of him and his country. He's not that stupid...close, but not quite.

So bottom line, since he now has nukes, there's not much reason for tensions IMHO, so I credit them mostly with deescalation in rhetoric, not trump. Sorry. So I don't think trump has much to do with this at all. It's been more the natural progression of these things.

Again, if trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations. So far, he's gotten nothing even close to that. Mostly because they already have nukes and they'd be moronic to give them up now.

I figured it would be next to impossible for you to say, yes or no, but I didn't expect a War & Peace version. I should have known better.

And there you go again with another weasel, intellectually-dishonest, assertion that you'll congratulate Trump for anything. "If trump actually gets a signed agreement anywhere close to what we had with Iran, I'll give him congratulations".

Guess who gets to be the judge of what's anywhere close, and guess who will likely never have to swallow that bad clam?

Yes, clearly this issue both sides of the political spectrum have been dealing with for decades should be confined to one word responses. 01-wingedeagle

BTW, we need to be sure to let the Japanese know that there's no reason for tension as N. Korean test missles fly past their territory.
07-11-2018 01:35 PM
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Post: #138
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
Nothing on Nukes... but he did call Trump "Your Excellency" a couple times so Trump is all in.

07-12-2018 11:58 AM
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Post: #139
RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
Good news for these families and a nice win for trump.

Quote:JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM (Reuters) - The U.S. military has identified the first two American troops from 55 boxes of human remains from the 1950-53 Korean War that North Korea handed over in July, the agency leading the analysis said on Monday.
First two U.S. troops from North Korean remains identified

(This post was last modified: 09-20-2018 01:59 PM by Redwingtom.)
09-20-2018 01:56 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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RE: North Korea has returned remains of 200 U.S. war dead
That has to be a great comfort for their families.
09-20-2018 02:19 PM
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