Whatever is good for Ohio is good for the MAC.

(06-23-2018 08:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Miami is Miami.

There is nothing like it.

In reality there isn't a huge amount that separates Miami and OU; we're a lot more similar than Miami and Akron for example.

(06-25-2018 07:21 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 08:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Miami is Miami.

There is nothing like it.

In reality there isn't a huge amount that separates Miami and OU; we're a lot more similar than Miami and Akron for example.

The business school at Miami might be one the very best at any public university. One of the most robust greek systems around. You definitely buy an experience there.

Akron is an educational 7-11 with everything processed and wrapped in plastic. A place to take a crap and grab a book.

(06-25-2018 04:50 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Whatever is good for Ohio is good for the MAC.

You've got to make it down to Athens for the football game this fall.

Bask under the sun and 85 degree September heat.

(06-25-2018 01:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

Actually it's more like 80-100 schools that compete for the top global researchers.

No school is fully comprehensive. For example, Princeton is outstanding, but they don't have a medical or law school. Other schools might be fully competitive in many fields, but choose to keep inferior departments in other fields (rather than dropping them entirely) in order to round out students' options. The inferior departments might be legacies or they might be hoping to improve them in the future.

For example, UT-Dallas is a top-15 business school. Houston and Temple are top-50 business schools. Dayton is a top-30 engineering school. Cincinnati and IUPUI are top-50 med schools. Washington & Lee and George Washington are top-30 law schools. They are competitive with anyone in those fields. In other fields, they often offer a competitive salary/funding/teaching load as Stanford/Harvard but really the only thing they are unable to offer is top-quality colleagues & PhD students who can improve your research.

Dayton has a top-30 engineering school by what metric? Top 30 means its University of California level I don't think so.

The 5 billion+ endowment schools with infinite money is what I am talking about. Endless money to blow on faculty. This is the type of brand that Ohio State strives to become.

The 800 million or 1 billion dollar endowment schools that are doing 100-200 million in federally funded research are constrained on salaries because they need a cost model to support all the academic units that don't generate any revenue at those places to stay affordable. In some cases very good schools but are falling behind the mega institutions with unlimited money.

(06-25-2018 07:21 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 08:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Miami is Miami.

There is nothing like it.

In reality there isn't a huge amount that separates Miami and OU; we're a lot more similar than Miami and Akron for example.

True, MU and OU are both MAC East also-rans...Akron is the champ.

(06-25-2018 08:18 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-25-2018 01:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

Actually it's more like 80-100 schools that compete for the top global researchers.

No school is fully comprehensive. For example, Princeton is outstanding, but they don't have a medical or law school. Other schools might be fully competitive in many fields, but choose to keep inferior departments in other fields (rather than dropping them entirely) in order to round out students' options. The inferior departments might be legacies or they might be hoping to improve them in the future.

For example, UT-Dallas is a top-15 business school. Houston and Temple are top-50 business schools. Dayton is a top-30 engineering school. Cincinnati and IUPUI are top-50 med schools. Washington & Lee and George Washington are top-30 law schools. They are competitive with anyone in those fields. In other fields, they often offer a competitive salary/funding/teaching load as Stanford/Harvard but really the only thing they are unable to offer is top-quality colleagues & PhD students who can improve your research.

Dayton has a top-30 engineering school by what metric? Top 30 means its University of California level I don't think so.

The 5 billion+ endowment schools with infinite money is what I am talking about. Endless money to blow on faculty. This is the type of brand that Ohio State strives to become.

The 800 million or 1 billion dollar endowment schools that are doing 100-200 million in federally funded research are constrained on salaries because they need a cost model to support all the academic units that don't generate any revenue at those places to stay affordable. In some cases very good schools but are falling behind the mega institutions with unlimited money.

Sorry, with Dayton I should have said "top-30 mechanical engineering." Most of my family has MechE degrees so that's what I consider engineering.

Dayton is top-30 in MechE in research dollars. They're able to do that because they do a lot of work with nearby Wright-Patterson Air Force base and GE Aircraft, which is mostly located between Dayton & Cincy. Dayton can blow whatever money on Mechanical Engineering they want to, and can compete with Cal in that area, because they have the partners to make it succeed.

The point is: money isn't what makes a good academic department. Rather, it's the quality of people you can offer. For example, new business professors at Cincinnati, Purdue, and UCLA make about the same salary/benefits/teaching load. The only difference (and the reason why UCLA gets the top minds) is in the quality of the colleagues & PhD students you're working with.

You can jump up the rankings easier through new partnerships (like Dayton's Mech E department has) than from new money.

For example, before 2016 Missouri's business school was "money-whipping" top professors for about a decade. They'd offer about double the market salary for new positions. But paradoxically, this strategy didn't do much to improve their rankings. They went up a few notches, but that's it. One colleague I knew who took their money was back on the job market in three years because the environment was so toxic (and this was before the football team fired the President). When you wave meat, you attract vultures. When you wave money (and nothing else), you attract a-holes.

(06-25-2018 08:02 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-25-2018 04:50 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Whatever is good for Ohio is good for the MAC.

You've got to make it down to Athens for the football game this fall.

Bask under the sun and 85 degree September heat.

I've thought of it. Any other year would probably get a place 2-3 hours out in Maryland or W. Virginia and stay there the night before, but need time off work from on'call rotation of three people. Have two nice close games with Boston College and UConn.

Also if I get a chance to meet a guy I was in the service with, will consider Georgia this year as well.