About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate our children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Quote:“The impact of Ohio University’s teaching, research, and service continues to expand far beyond Athens, and we are honored and humbled to receive such a warm welcome in Dublin. The Dublin Campus provides a unique opportunity to collaborate with other higher education institutions to offer the same first-class education in central Ohio that our Athens students have enjoyed for 212 years. We are very proud of the collaborative learning that is already taking place on the Dublin Campus and look forward to many years of partnership between our university and the Dublin community,” states Ohio University President Roderick J. McDavis.

The Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine’s first class of students at Dublin is expected to graduate from the Dublin Campus in 2018, the year a consultant predicts the school will reach a $26.4 million annual economic impact. It also is expected to create 145 jobs and $1 million in tax revenue.

“Dublin is home to a multitude of other world-class medical and health resources including our preeminent partner, OhioHealth, as well as other health care systems and corporations. The opportunity to actively collaborate with these health care systems and corporations to offer clinical training, internships, and research opportunities will not only benefit our faculty and students, but also the residents of central Ohio by contributing to a community where people want to work, live, and raise a family,” continues President McDavis.

https://www.dublinchamber.org/news/detai...f-the-year

Ohio has a new medical school and research park in Dublin, Ohio right in Ohio State's back yard and is now graduating more doctors between its 3 in-state medical schools than OSU.

Ohio is not close to the Columbus market just from a regional perspective. It is has two campuses (Dublin and Pickerington) directly in the Columbus market to serve its residents. Its fills a niche as a secondary major brand for the central Ohio market.

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.

What you are saying here is key to my whole OP.

Ohio State is pulling out of being an everything school for the State of Ohio to put its focus into becoming a global research institution. To try and be a peer with Michigan, John Hopkins, Stanford ect. with research.

Ohio is then filling in as the more traditional "state" university with more of a focus on local economic engines. Medical schools and research park opportunities with a state focus rather than global. A lot of the initiatives are similar to what WVU has done which has a medical centers around the state.

Its two different market niches that the schools are working together for maximum benefit. A program not well suited for one campus is headed for the other one in this case.

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

(06-23-2018 03:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.

What you are saying here is key to my whole OP.

Ohio State is pulling out of being an everything school for the State of Ohio to put its focus into becoming a global research institution. To try and be a peer with Michigan, John Hopkins, Stanford ect. with research.

Ohio is then filling in as the more traditional "state" university with more of a focus on local economic engines. Medical schools and research park opportunities with a state focus rather than global. A lot of the initiatives are similar to what WVU has done which has a medical centers around the state.

Its two different market niches that the schools are working together for maximum benefit. A program not well suited for one campus is headed for the other one in this case.

Yes, that's a good division of labor between the two schools.

Though you can kind of hear some arse-hurt in the statement by the Kiplinger foundation, eh? I think the Kiplinger guy is irked that the move has become necessary. I think there are some shots in there at the Buckeyes.

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

Yes, universities have an insatiable desire for money and if a research finding can be monetized hallelujah. But even though that is the case, believe me, they crave prestige even more. Prestige among peers and aspirational peers is the ultimate coin of the realm in academia. And that comes from research reputation.

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

You can do it, but it takes a LOT of money and time. E.g., 80 years ago, schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, and Texas weren't elite or near-elite. But they threw huge amounts of money at the problem.

If you offer a high enough salary and have the facilities, you can get anyone to come, and the reason is, a top professor's reputation isn't based on the school he's at, even if it's Harvard. It's based on his research record, and that's portable. You can take your Nobel Prize, Field's Medal, etc. with you when you pack up your office.

That's become even more true the past 20 years, as the web has enabled far-flung collaborations with colleagues at other places that just wasn't feasible in the past.

and than there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=577hN8tQM6g

(06-23-2018 05:12 PM)bluesox Wrote:   and than there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=577hN8tQM6g

IMO, that's lame. Mascots should gesture-smack at each other all they want, but no touching. Out of bounds.

They're still no Miami.

Miami is Miami.

There is nothing like it.

(06-23-2018 06:35 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  They're still no Miami.

Miami and Oxford OH is very beautiful! Wonderful school.

My wife is an State of Ohio employee, we've moved around this great state a little bit. Currently in Athens Ohio and was very skeptical about moving down here. Can honestly say, this is one of the most beautiful places we've lived at in Ohio.

Sent from my SM-G920V using CSNbbs mobile app

(06-23-2018 03:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.

What you are saying here is key to my whole OP.

Ohio State is pulling out of being an everything school for the State of Ohio to put its focus into becoming a global research institution. To try and be a peer with Michigan, John Hopkins, Stanford ect. with research.

Ohio is then filling in as the more traditional "state" university with more of a focus on local economic engines. Medical schools and research park opportunities with a state focus rather than global. A lot of the initiatives are similar to what WVU has done which has a medical centers around the state.

Its two different market niches that the schools are working together for maximum benefit. A program not well suited for one campus is headed for the other one in this case.

Of course, it may also be that Ohio St. could never get in the top tier in journalism and de-emphasized it.

(06-23-2018 05:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

You can do it, but it takes a LOT of money and time. E.g., 80 years ago, schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, and Texas weren't elite or near-elite. But they threw huge amounts of money at the problem.

If you offer a high enough salary and have the facilities, you can get anyone to come, and the reason is, a top professor's reputation isn't based on the school he's at, even if it's Harvard. It's based on his research record, and that's portable. You can take your Nobel Prize, Field's Medal, etc. with you when you pack up your office.

That's become even more true the past 20 years, as the web has enabled far-flung collaborations with colleagues at other places that just wasn't feasible in the past.

Notre Dame is a research pipsqueak -- only about $140 million in grants in 2017. That's a fraction of the research activity at either Stanford or Texas. If ND has been spending big money for the last 80 years to attract elite faculty talent and to build its research portfolio, it sure hasn't gotten much benefit out of it.

(06-23-2018 11:30 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

You can do it, but it takes a LOT of money and time. E.g., 80 years ago, schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, and Texas weren't elite or near-elite. But they threw huge amounts of money at the problem.

If you offer a high enough salary and have the facilities, you can get anyone to come, and the reason is, a top professor's reputation isn't based on the school he's at, even if it's Harvard. It's based on his research record, and that's portable. You can take your Nobel Prize, Field's Medal, etc. with you when you pack up your office.

That's become even more true the past 20 years, as the web has enabled far-flung collaborations with colleagues at other places that just wasn't feasible in the past.

Notre Dame is a research pipsqueak -- only about $140 million in grants in 2017. That's a fraction of the research activity at either Stanford or Texas. If ND has been spending big money for the last 80 years to attract elite faculty talent and to build its research portfolio, it sure hasn't gotten much benefit out of it.

You have to remember that what universities seek from research even more than money is prestige, so while money and research prestige are positively correlated, they aren't perfectly so.

E.g., by federal grant funding rankings, Wisconsin and Georgia Tech are ahead of Yale and Harvard. But while UW and GT are high quality schools, they aren't in the same league with Yale and Harvard, the latter are clearly more prestigious, they are two of the three most prestigious universities in the world.

Research grants can skew in a couple of ways. First, size of faculty. Huge schools like Wisconsin and Michigan employ thousands of faculty. A smaller school might be more prestigious but get less dollars because they employ far fewer faculty. But in academia, it's the average research status of your faculty that creates prestige, not the gross volume.

As an extreme example, a smaller school department with 5 faculty who are regarded as "10s" on a 1-10 research scale in their domains and with $5m in active grants between them is more prestigious than a department at a bigger school with 20 researchers who are regarded as "8s and 9s" so to speak, and with $10m among them. The latter school is bringing in more dollars but the former will have more academy-wide prestige and regard.

Also, area of specialization can skew. E.g., the federal government spends bazillions on medical research, so universities with good med schools will typically be on the high end of grant receiving. But the lion's share is going to the med school, which doesn't add to the prestige of the rest of the university. In contrast, another school might have a highly-regarded medieval languages faculty. There's basically no grant money going to that field at all, and the public could give a damn about medieval languages, but in academia, areas like that are taken very seriously and that school will gain significant prestige from having such a program.

Notre Dame has a very high-quality faculty with near-Ivy level prestige in most domains. It's just a small faculty so doesn't generate the gross dollars of behemoth schools. But it's more prestigious than most of them nonetheless.

(06-23-2018 09:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.

What you are saying here is key to my whole OP.

Ohio State is pulling out of being an everything school for the State of Ohio to put its focus into becoming a global research institution. To try and be a peer with Michigan, John Hopkins, Stanford ect. with research.

Ohio is then filling in as the more traditional "state" university with more of a focus on local economic engines. Medical schools and research park opportunities with a state focus rather than global. A lot of the initiatives are similar to what WVU has done which has a medical centers around the state.

Its two different market niches that the schools are working together for maximum benefit. A program not well suited for one campus is headed for the other one in this case.

Of course, it may also be that Ohio St. could never get in the top tier in journalism and de-emphasized it.

Don’t worry Ohio’s Journalism school isn’t much better.

(06-23-2018 11:30 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

You can do it, but it takes a LOT of money and time. E.g., 80 years ago, schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, and Texas weren't elite or near-elite. But they threw huge amounts of money at the problem.

If you offer a high enough salary and have the facilities, you can get anyone to come, and the reason is, a top professor's reputation isn't based on the school he's at, even if it's Harvard. It's based on his research record, and that's portable. You can take your Nobel Prize, Field's Medal, etc. with you when you pack up your office.

That's become even more true the past 20 years, as the web has enabled far-flung collaborations with colleagues at other places that just wasn't feasible in the past.

Notre Dame is a research pipsqueak -- only about $140 million in grants in 2017. That's a fraction of the research activity at either Stanford or Texas. If ND has been spending big money for the last 80 years to attract elite faculty talent and to build its research portfolio, it sure hasn't gotten much benefit out of it.

ND's focus has never really been on research that much, but rather on its undergraduate programs.

(06-23-2018 04:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 03:48 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 02:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  About two weeks ago, the Ohio State University Board of Trustees approved a transfer of funds for the Kiplinger Program in Public Affairs Journalism, a highly acclaimed fellowship that has attracted professional journalists from around the world, from the Columbus-based university to Ohio University.

The funds transfer is one of the first major steps in moving the entire fellowship program from its longtime home at Ohio State to OU’s Athens campus, a decision made by Knight Kiplinger, president of the Kiplinger Foundation.

“The idea of moving the Kiplinger Program from Ohio State to OU began to germinate about two years ago,” Kiplinger explained in an email Tuesday. “It had become increasingly clear over the past decade that Ohio State was not as interested in supporting the program as it had been in an earlier era, when the techniques of journalism were still being taught at OSU in a robust, traditional school of journalism (like those at, say, Missouri, Northwestern, Columbia, Maryland, Syracuse, and OU’s E. W. Scripps School in Athens, among other fine J-schools).”

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/p...f4556.html

This is probably inevitable as more top universities focus on research. I don't know for sure but Journalism may not have that angle to it, it's very important but I'd imagine also purely a practical activity. And in academia, "practical" takes a back seat in prestige** to "research".

In contrast, other practical fields like Law, Business, Medicine, and Engineering have "pure research" dimensions. E.g., there are professors of Finance who may never have actually invested in a bond or a stock but have built academic reputations by publishing dozens of articles in technical journals about theoretical dimensions of finance. There are engineering professors who don't actually design bridges but have published research articles on the mathematics of solving bridge design problems, etc. That's what these universities want.




** Though for political reasons, they may not always admit this and may emphasize the practicalities. E.g., if the state legislature is thinking about cutting a state school's budget, the Chancellor might make public statements, or statements in a legislative committee, talking about the great work the school does in training students for the job market, training teachers to educate Our Children, training entrepreneurs to grow the economy, etc.

Universities aren't interested solely in the prestige that accompanies published research findings; they want patents and the revenues which flow from them.

A lot is based on what salary cost model a university can afford.

Only the top 25-30 research schools have the cost model to compete for the top global researchers.

The others will have their "Center's of Excellence" for research but do it with a more affordable cost model for compensation.

There is always the Oklahoma case where a mid level public university decides to spend more than it can afford to chase the elite. But the elite research schools are the elite for reasons that stretch back 100 years. They've built up too many relationships, competitive advantages and long term contracts.

Actually it's more like 80-100 schools that compete for the top global researchers.

No school is fully comprehensive. For example, Princeton is outstanding, but they don't have a medical or law school. Other schools might be fully competitive in many fields, but choose to keep inferior departments in other fields (rather than dropping them entirely) in order to round out students' options. The inferior departments might be legacies or they might be hoping to improve them in the future.

For example, UT-Dallas is a top-15 business school. Houston and Temple are top-50 business schools. Dayton is a top-30 engineering school. Cincinnati and IUPUI are top-50 med schools. Washington & Lee and George Washington are top-30 law schools. They are competitive with anyone in those fields. In other fields, they often offer a competitive salary/funding/teaching load as Stanford/Harvard but really the only thing they are unable to offer is top-quality colleagues & PhD students who can improve your research.