(07-06-2018 11:12 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  No it’s not. China is. You guys are really bad at this. I know the answer is slapping you in the face but none of you can admit to it. Sad! You’ve already conceded Crimea now you want to foresake NATO too????? For a Supreme Court judge and a tax cut that is exploding the budget as we speak??? You guys like inflation? Like paying more for gas? Strange....

Why yes, you are strange. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one. Good for you!

(07-06-2018 09:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  France has found away to surrender in peace time.

Soy

(07-06-2018 10:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I know Fox News wouldn’t report on this and probably none of you can find articles in the right wing rags to do the thinking for you and put forth a counter argument. It would be tough. Be honest. How many of you even heard about this???? It’s color by numbers. Who would it help to weaken the EU and NATO????? Who???????

Who would it help?

For starters, France.

For another, probably the rest of the EU.

You seem to think the EU as a central government works well. I doesn't. It's an experiment in globalism that went too far. Europe worked well as a trade union. But ceding sovereignty to a bunch of bureaucrats has not served them well. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't. One cause of Brexit was that UK could not even conduct its own foreign policy with other members of the Commonwealth, with whom it shared a common head of state. That's absurd.

I had a foreign exchange student several years ago, a kid from Holland, very bright, good student. He was a very idealistic Eurokid. After he finished is semester here, he got a position as what we would call a page, to the MEP from is district, a Mr. vanNistleroy (since the World Cup is on now, I can note that he was related to Ruud). Anyway, we stayed in touch (he left a girlfriend here, and I think he wanted me to help him get back in grad school here, but they broke up so that never happened). The following summer, I went on a cruise out of Amsterdam, and the day before the cruise left, I went down to Brussels to see him. He was totally disgusted and disillusioned with the circus going on at the EU parliament. The whole system as he described it is just a joke. Nobody reads bills, they simply vote as they are told. There is visitor center with a video showing a session in progress. They are actually voting on a bill. "Watch this," he said. "See there is Mr. vanNistleroy. Now, you see me coming in and bringing him a book. That is the bill. It is the first time he has seen it, but he has already been told how he will vote."

For another, quite frankly, the USA--you know, the country Trump is president of. To win the Cold War, we basically bribed Europe. We'll give you trade deals tat tilt your way and we'll take care of your defense, provided you do what we tell you do about the communist countries. The problem is, we won, and nobody ad figured out what to do next. That old order does not fit our needs any more. We need to have a NATO, but a very different NATO. It's not us defending everybody any more, but all of us cooperating to defend everybody. And Europe doesn't need those one-sided trade deals any more--we need the field leveled.

I don't care for Trump's methods. He's too much bull in China shop for me. But that may in fact be what we need.

(07-06-2018 08:28 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You guys are just pawns in Putin’s game and you’re too proud to admit you’ve been duped by a con man fraudster.

I'm relatively new to poking around on this particular section of these boards. Is this guy Machiavelli serious or is he a satirical troll?

(07-06-2018 10:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I know Fox News wouldn’t report on this and probably none of you can find articles in the right wing rags to do the thinking for you and put forth a counter argument. It would be tough. Be honest. How many of you even heard about this???? It’s color by numbers. Who would it help to weaken the EU and NATO????? Who???????

Have you exhausted your supply of Xanax?

(07-06-2018 09:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 12:53 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Starts a new thread, opening salvo is baseless insults sneering down ones nose.

Great way to start a conversation...

(07-12-2018 09:56 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 08:28 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You guys are just pawns in Putin’s game and you’re too proud to admit you’ve been duped by a con man fraudster.

I'm relatively new to poking around on this particular section of these boards. Is this guy Machiavelli serious or is he a satirical troll?

It's hard to say. But, he's so consistent in his ridiculousness that he must be serious.

(07-06-2018 10:52 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  ok, who unbuckled Mach?

I think I finally located his action photo.....god love ya Mach!

The EU is planning its own military: Army, Navy and Air Force. That would take away a substantial portion of France’s sovereignty and surrending it to Germany.

(07-13-2018 04:59 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The EU is planning its own military: Army, Navy and Air Force. That would take away a substantial portion of France’s sovereignty and surrending it to Germany.

"No Globalism here, no globalism here, now move on, move on".

Does that mean that they don't need us anymore?

Can you imagine non elected bureaucrats in Mexico City making decisions the USA has to abide by?

(07-13-2018 05:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Can you imagine non elected bureaucrats in Mexico City making decisions the USA has to abide by?

This is the point. This is where the EU got out too far over its skis. Or went a bridge too far, or outkicked its coverage, or whatever metaphor you wish.

It was okay as a free trade zone. When it started meddling in internal affairs of supposedly sovereign nations, it went too far.

Britain with the French had to votes to block increased EU military. With Brexit, the French might be forced into it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-su...SKBN1JP0ZF