PAC 12 Future Expansion

Quote:"When we expanded in the past we looked at them because they are prominent schools in the West, with very strong athletics programs, in markets we are not in," Scott said. "There's a lot of criteria that we looked at last time, that I'm sure we'd look at again.

"If we were to look at expanding again, I'm sure both those schools would be on the list. But, we don't have any plans."

Larry Scott said that both programs are not markets that they are not in. So, in the future? Both schools will be looked at again since they are strong teams in football and mens basketball.PAC 12 really need help in both departments for post season.

They won’t because Wazzou covers Idaho and USC/UCLA cover San Diego but you were again two steps ahead of the pack knowing Scott publicly acknowledged considering them.

(07-14-2018 01:50 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  They won’t because Wazzou covers Idaho and USC/UCLA cover San Diego but you were again two steps ahead of the pack knowing Scott publicly acknowledged considering them.

Wazzou is losing that market to Boise State. Fans follow winners, not losers. Wazzou have been 0-13 or 1-11 in recent years while Boise State went 12-0 or 11-1 in the same time period.

He's being polite to the reporter, nothing more:

"If we were to look at expanding again, I'm sure both those schools would be on the list. But, we don't have any plans."

He sort of hinted to the reported from the UT-San Diego (they are definitely the best paper for getting interviews of schools in the west) why these schools were not selected in the sentence prior:

"There's a lot of criteria that we looked at last time, that I'm sure we'd look at again."

Those criteria mean having the academics to get past the Chancellors and Presidents of the California schools and Washington. That means being a major research institution and a Doctorate producing program. Neither BSU nor SDSU are anywhere near that. Those criteria have not changed. FWIW the B12 looked at applications from Northern Illinois, Arkansas State, East Carolina and Memphis. I would not elevate Boise State or San Diego State's evaluation to a level above those schools.

BTW, this article was from 2012, and the original from UT-SD is no longer online.

(07-14-2018 01:50 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  They won’t because Wazzou covers Idaho and USC/UCLA cover San Diego but you were again two steps ahead of the pack knowing Scott publicly acknowledged considering them.

Wazzu has as much influence in Idaho (except in the panhandle) as Rutgers does in Texas.

The primary reason hey even have influence in the panhandle is bitter Vandal fans are still mad about being slapped by Boise in recent years both on and off the field.


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(07-14-2018 01:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-14-2018 01:50 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  They won’t because Wazzou covers Idaho and USC/UCLA cover San Diego but you were again two steps ahead of the pack knowing Scott publicly acknowledged considering them.

Wazzou is losing that market to Boise State. Fans follow winners, not losers. Wazzou have been 0-13 or 1-11 in recent years while Boise State went 12-0 or 11-1 in the same time period.

Considering their most recent season was 9-4 with anticipation of a potential Pac 12 Championship Game appearance until late in the season, those seasons have less impact than the past couple seasons when the Cougars spent time in the Top 25 and went bowling to culminate their seasons. If you're going to pull up the past, Wazzu when to the Rose Bowl in 1931, so where does that figure in to all of this?

The Pac 12 will not expand with these schools. They are set in the California markets. As for Boise, that school didn't even make the final grade in the Big 12 expansion fiasco, so they will certainly not be considered in the Pac 12 either. This conference is in a serious down moment, so they will not want to add to more mouths to feed while they are not getting much money from their pathetic showings in the last bowl season and Big Dance.

This is based on a 6 year old article. Nothing to see here, moving on.

(07-14-2018 02:02 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  He's being polite to the reporter, nothing more:

"If we were to look at expanding again, I'm sure both those schools would be on the list. But, we don't have any plans."

He sort of hinted to the reported from the UT-San Diego (they are definitely the best paper for getting interviews of schools in the west) why these schools were not selected in the sentence prior:

"There's a lot of criteria that we looked at last time, that I'm sure we'd look at again."

Those criteria mean having the academics to get past the Chancellors and Presidents of the California schools and Washington. That means being a major research institution and a Doctorate producing program. Neither BSU nor SDSU are anywhere near that. Those criteria have not changed. FWIW the B12 looked at applications from Northern Illinois, Arkansas State, East Carolina and Memphis. I would not elevate Boise State or San Diego State's evaluation to a level above those schools.

BTW, this article was from 2012, and the original from UT-SD is no longer online.

Firstly, to say that Boise State does not award doctorates is false [SOURCE].

Secondly, you are correct that Boise State is not a major research university. Boise State is rated a Carnegie R3 Doctoral Research Institution. [SOURCE] Now, I can understand how the PAC-12 would not be moved by Boise State's current R3 status, as they probably want R1-level institutions at a minimum.

Thridly, Boise State has made great strides academically since becoming a 4-year institution in 1968. Boise State has gone from a regional university to a national-level university according to USNWR, ranked in the #231-300 range. [SOURCE]

Here are how the institutions you mention rank in comparison:
San Diego St #140 National [SOURCE]
East Carolina #207 National [SOURCE]
Boise State #231-300 National [SOURCE]
Memphis #231-300 National [SOURCE]
NIU #231-300 National [SOURCE]
Arkansas St. #68 Regional [SOURCE]

I think you are probably right in that Scott was being polite and he was simply being diplomatic. However, your broad, dismissive statement of the level, and quality of academics regarding BSU and SDSU in relation to the others you mentions is not born out by the facts...which you don't produce, you simply speculate.

Again, I understand if the current R3 status, and academic rankings do not move the needle for the PAC-12, but BSU is trending in the right direction, and to make all those strides in 50 years with such limited resources that is a result of Idaho's small population base.

Moreover, the PAC12 is really limited in expansion partners because of geography, so they can be as picky as they want since there is no P5 competitor beyond the I-35 corridor (TTU notwithstanding). I'd say that Boise State and SDSU are positioning themselves as best they can to be attractive to a power conference, but obviously there are numerous hurdles that must be overcome for that to occur. But to simply poo-poo SDSU and BSU based on speculation and conjecture is silly.

As much as I'd love to join the PAC (along with San Diego St), I have my doubts. However, in the following scenario I could definitely see the invites coming:

ACC becomes "unpoachable." If Notre Dame chooses to go all-in they do alongside West Virginia. If not, West Virginia and Cincinnati join the ACC. SEC expands to 18 with Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and Kansas. B1G is not interested in the XII leftovers. PAC is light years behind the other power conferences in revenue. The original PAC-8 plus Arizona and Colorado jump to the newly minted 24-school B1G. Utah and Arizona St keep the PAC name. XII leftovers join plus Boise St, San Diego St, Colorado St, UNLV, and BYU.

That is how Boise St and San Diego St join the PAC.

Conferences per these changes. I think it becomes the Power-"5". The B1G, SEC, and ACC get champions autobid into the CFP leaving 1 wild card. The PAC and AAC each get a NY6 bowl guarantee.

PAC
West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Arizona St
East: Colorado St, Iowa St, Kansas St, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

SEC
West: Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri
Central: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
East: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

B1G
West: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Central: Arizona, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

ACC (my preferred realigned divisions...)
Atlantic: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Miami
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

AAC
West: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Navy
East: Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut

---

Rose Bowl: B1G vs. SEC
Fiesta Bowl: PAC vs. At-Large
Cotton Bowl: At-Large vs. At-Large
Sugar Bowl: SEC vs. ACC
Peach Bowl: AAC vs. At-Large
Orange Bowl: ACC vs. B1G

The second UCSD even mentions FCS football, they pass SDSU and Boise as PAC candidates. Actually, they probably already are higher on the list without football.

(07-14-2018 01:33 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The second UCSD even mentions FCS football, they pass SDSU and Boise as PAC candidates. Actually, they probably already are higher on the list without football.

Agreed. The PAC might say they don't need a presence in San Diego when referring to San Diego St but UCSD would hit all of their parameters. The only concern would be finding a suitable #14. It will also help with division splits as the PAC schools all want games in the State of California.

(07-14-2018 01:25 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As much as I'd love to join the PAC (along with San Diego St), I have my doubts. However, in the following scenario I could definitely see the invites coming:

ACC becomes "unpoachable." If Notre Dame chooses to go all-in they do alongside West Virginia. If not, West Virginia and Cincinnati join the ACC. SEC expands to 18 with Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and Kansas. B1G is not interested in the XII leftovers. PAC is light years behind the other power conferences in revenue. The original PAC-8 plus Arizona and Colorado jump to the newly minted 24-school B1G. Utah and Arizona St keep the PAC name. XII leftovers join plus Boise St, San Diego St, Colorado St, UNLV, and BYU.

That is how Boise St and San Diego St join the PAC.

Conferences per these changes. I think it becomes the Power-"5". The B1G, SEC, and ACC get champions autobid into the CFP leaving 1 wild card. The PAC and AAC each get a NY6 bowl guarantee.

PAC
West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Arizona St
East: Colorado St, Iowa St, Kansas St, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

SEC
West: Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri
Central: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
East: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

B1G
West: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Central: Arizona, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

ACC (my preferred realigned divisions...)
Atlantic: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Miami
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

AAC
West: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Navy
East: Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut

---

Rose Bowl: B1G vs. SEC
Fiesta Bowl: PAC vs. At-Large
Cotton Bowl: At-Large vs. At-Large
Sugar Bowl: SEC vs. ACC
Peach Bowl: AAC vs. At-Large
Orange Bowl: ACC vs. B1G

This scenario will never ever happen. Too many schools, too many mouths to feed, different schools have different agendas.


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(07-14-2018 01:39 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2018 01:33 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The second UCSD even mentions FCS football, they pass SDSU and Boise as PAC candidates. Actually, they probably already are higher on the list without football.

Agreed. The PAC might say they don't need a presence in San Diego when referring to San Diego St but UCSD would hit all of their parameters. The only concern would be finding a suitable #14. It will also help with division splits as the PAC schools all want games in the State of California.

I think the problem is that the realignment would have to do with money, and who would sell products from advertisers, not have to do with academics. Academics is the old dinosaur days which have to be tossed out the window. ESPN was on board for the Big 12 to expand. Once Big 12 kept Rice, SMU and Tulane but dropped Boise State, BYU, ECU, Arkansas State, Northern Illinois, San Diego State and Memphis from consideration? ESPn was all of a sudden against the Big 12 to expand. Rice, SMU and Tiulane do not sell advertisers or get the viewers. ESPN would want Boise State in the Big 12. Even UNLV was rejected as well. ESPN was against SMU, Rice and Tulane to join a P conference. We already have some deadwieghts in the power conferences that should be kicked out to make room for who can sell products, get viewers and sell tickets.Boise State could do that. Washington State can't. Wazzo is behind Boise State in attendance-wise. Same as Duke and Wake Forest.

As for someone pointing out some PAC 12 schools to the Big 10? Big 10 do not want non-AAU schools who are also deadweights. Oregon State and Washington State would be rejected by the Big 10 the same way you guys say that Boise State would be rejected by the PAC 12. As it is? The PAC 12 north schools do schedule Boise State a lot in recent years, and Boise State hand them Ls so many times. Boise State in the bowl last year beat Wazzoo again. Boise State is already setting up rivalry games with the PAC 12 north. Wazzoo and Boise State could have a Snake River rivalry game which could help boast fan support and tv viewership. It would be the northwest version of the Red River Rivalry games between Oklahoma and Texas. This could sell big time for future games.

If the PAC 12 go to 22 to 24 team super conference? North Pod would be:
Boise State
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
UNR

That would give the PAC 12 5 games against rivals in their pods, and would still give the northwest schools games to work with to play with the California schools.

(07-14-2018 02:01 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(07-14-2018 01:25 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As much as I'd love to join the PAC (along with San Diego St), I have my doubts. However, in the following scenario I could definitely see the invites coming:

ACC becomes "unpoachable." If Notre Dame chooses to go all-in they do alongside West Virginia. If not, West Virginia and Cincinnati join the ACC. SEC expands to 18 with Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and Kansas. B1G is not interested in the XII leftovers. PAC is light years behind the other power conferences in revenue. The original PAC-8 plus Arizona and Colorado jump to the newly minted 24-school B1G. Utah and Arizona St keep the PAC name. XII leftovers join plus Boise St, San Diego St, Colorado St, UNLV, and BYU.

That is how Boise St and San Diego St join the PAC.

Conferences per these changes. I think it becomes the Power-"5". The B1G, SEC, and ACC get champions autobid into the CFP leaving 1 wild card. The PAC and AAC each get a NY6 bowl guarantee.

PAC
West: San Diego St, UNLV, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Arizona St
East: Colorado St, Iowa St, Kansas St, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

SEC
West: Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri
Central: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
East: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

B1G
West: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Central: Arizona, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

ACC (my preferred realigned divisions...)
Atlantic: Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Miami
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

AAC
West: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Navy
East: Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut

---

Rose Bowl: B1G vs. SEC
Fiesta Bowl: PAC vs. At-Large
Cotton Bowl: At-Large vs. At-Large
Sugar Bowl: SEC vs. ACC
Peach Bowl: AAC vs. At-Large
Orange Bowl: ACC vs. B1G

This scenario will never ever happen. Too many schools, too many mouths to feed, different schools have different agendas.


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It was intentionally ridiculous but, truthfully, the only way Boise St gets into the PAC.

(07-14-2018 11:35 AM)AZcats Wrote:  This is based on a 6 year old article. Nothing to see here, moving on.

How dare you??? DavidSt is a realignment expert, who correctly predicted Liberty to FBS. Though he is currently 0 for 2,000 on his other predictions. If he digs up this 6 year old article, it’s because he’s letting us peek into his crystal ball.

You heard it here first! Boise and SDSU to the PAC 12! He’s calling it and not giving a timetable, so if they move in the next 40 years, he was the first. Even though, they are in the 2nd best Western conference and moving up to the first is the only place they could likely ever go!

Keep up the good work Davey!

(07-14-2018 01:20 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  PAC 12 Future Expansion

Quote:"When we expanded in the past we looked at them because they are prominent schools in the West, with very strong athletics programs, in markets we are not in," Scott said. "There's a lot of criteria that we looked at last time, that I'm sure we'd look at again.

"If we were to look at expanding again, I'm sure both those schools would be on the list. But, we don't have any plans."

Larry Scott said that both programs are not markets that they are not in. So, in the future? Both schools will be looked at again since they are strong teams in football and mens basketball.PAC 12 really need help in both departments for post season.

Did you notice that the article is from 2012 and it's mentions them going to the Big East. Uh...lots of stuff has happened since then.

(07-14-2018 01:39 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2018 01:33 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The second UCSD even mentions FCS football, they pass SDSU and Boise as PAC candidates. Actually, they probably already are higher on the list without football.

Agreed. The PAC might say they don't need a presence in San Diego when referring to San Diego St but UCSD would hit all of their parameters. The only concern would be finding a suitable #14. It will also help with division splits as the PAC schools all want games in the State of California.

if we got to the point where UC-San Diego was developing their athletic program to where they were actively on the Pac-12's radar then I expect that if they hadn't already done so independently that the Pac-12 would be encouraging UC Davis to do the same thing

(07-14-2018 01:33 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The second UCSD even mentions FCS football, they pass SDSU and Boise as PAC candidates. Actually, they probably already are higher on the list without football.

UCSD moving up to Division 1 was an important first step as the Pac was not going to take them directly from Division 2. But they are likely a 25 year project at best. They need time to grow athletically.

(07-14-2018 01:50 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  They won’t because Wazzou covers Idaho and USC/UCLA cover San Diego but you were again two steps ahead of the pack knowing Scott publicly acknowledged considering them.

Actually, according to Larry Scott himself, Wazzou & USC/UCLA do NOT cover Boise & San Diego. Like you, I used to think that too, but both you & I were wrong.

(07-14-2018 01:20 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  PAC 12 Future Expansion

Quote:"When we expanded in the past we looked at them because they are prominent schools in the West, with very strong athletics programs, in markets we are not in," Scott said. "There's a lot of criteria that we looked at last time, that I'm sure we'd look at again.

"If we were to look at expanding again, I'm sure both those schools would be on the list. But, we don't have any plans."

Larry Scott said that both programs are not markets that they are not in. So, in the future? Both schools will be looked at again since they are strong teams in football and mens basketball.PAC 12 really need help in both departments for post season.

Is Idaho a market or a mini-mart?