(07-14-2019 10:18 AM)georgewebb Wrote: What George Will has called the left’s “bigotry of low expectations” has been widely known and documented for decades. I encountered it vividly at Rice in 1990-1991, when several proudly left-wing students in a history class insisted that black people cannot be expected to be as logical as white people on matters of science and religion.
If the description is inflammatory, it’s only because it’s true.
Your George Will reference and your anecdotal story of two leftists in your class still doesn't prove to me that your statement is "true".
In essence... you are saying "leftists think minorities are stupid". You'll have to give me more support of that position to call it true.
Wow, talk about entitlement! I don’t “have to give” you anything. Perhaps you could research it yourself — you know, to increase your own awareness. Perhaps you could offer some evidence that it’s not the case.
It’s not my job to educate you.
You are taking the (what most would deem the outrageous) position that liberals think that minorities are stupid. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask you to back that claim up more than you have.
On the contrary, it is not outrageous at all, and is in fact borne out by experience. What’s outrageous (not to mention smug!) is claiming that “most would deem [it to be] outrageous.” You might deem that, but it it obscenely privileged to project yourself as “most people”.
Look, leftists hold a lot of views which are disgusting (even “deplorable”), yet it seems every time you’re made aware of one, you claim that you’ve never seen it or that it’s impossible. It’s not other people’s job to teach you, and quite frankly your self-admiring blindness makes it tiresome to try. It’s time to open your eyes and get off your high horse about the supposed purity of leftists.
There isn’t an ounce of irony in making a sweeping generalization about how most people are, while also calling someone smug for saying how most people are..
(07-14-2019 12:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: one side believes in merit-based decisions.
The other side thinks minorities cannot compete if merit is the basis, so they enforce politices based on race.
Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
(07-14-2019 11:02 AM)Rice93 Wrote: You are taking the (what most would deem the outrageous) position that liberals think that minorities are stupid. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask you to back that claim up more than you have.
"Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you an keep 'em voting democrat." Every social action by the democrats over the last 50 years has been in furtherance of that goal.
And idiot republicans have not been able to counter.
(07-14-2019 10:28 AM)Rice93 Wrote: Your George Will reference and your anecdotal story of two leftists in your class still doesn't prove to me that your statement is "true".
In essence... you are saying "leftists think minorities are stupid". You'll have to give me more support of that position to call it true.
Wow, talk about entitlement! I don’t “have to give” you anything. Perhaps you could research it yourself — you know, to increase your own awareness. Perhaps you could offer some evidence that it’s not the case.
It’s not my job to educate you.
You are taking the (what most would deem the outrageous) position that liberals think that minorities are stupid. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask you to back that claim up more than you have.
On the contrary, it is not outrageous at all, and is in fact borne out by experience. What’s outrageous (not to mention smug!) is claiming that “most would deem [it to be] outrageous.” You might deem that, but it it obscenely privileged to project yourself as “most people”.
Look, leftists hold a lot of views which are disgusting (even “deplorable”), yet it seems every time you’re made aware of one, you claim that you’ve never seen it or that it’s impossible. It’s not other people’s job to teach you, and quite frankly your self-admiring blindness makes it tiresome to try. It’s time to open your eyes and get off your high horse about the supposed purity of leftists.
There isn’t an ounce of irony in making a sweeping generalization about how most people are, while also calling someone smug for saying how most people are..
On the other hand, there is considerable irony in suggesting that that wasnt obvious, when it was not only obvious to me but part of my intent. Where have you been? :(
(07-14-2019 12:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: one side believes in merit-based decisions.
The other side thinks minorities cannot compete if merit is the basis, so they enforce politices based on race.
Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
Equally, it doesn’t mean one believes that minorities are NOT in some ways inferior. Again, it’s an unfortunate tendency (not a rule, but a tendency) that I’ve seen first-hand; that thoughtful people across the political spectrum have cautioned about; that some minority leftists have pointed out, sometimes with considerable frustration; that even some of my leftist PHD friends have said that is a valid concern. Against that we have you covering your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “Stop it! I dont want to hear it!”
(07-14-2019 12:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: one side believes in merit-based decisions.
The other side thinks minorities cannot compete if merit is the basis, so they enforce politices based on race.
Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
Equally, it doesn’t mean one believes that minorities are NOT in some ways inferior. Again, it’s an unfortunate tendency (not a rule, but a tendency) that I’ve seen first-hand; that thoughtful people across the political spectrum have cautioned about; that some minority leftists have pointed out, sometimes with considerable frustration; that even some of my leftist PHD friends have said that is a valid concern. Against that we have you covering your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “Stop it! I dont want to hear it!”
Pretty sure that I’m not throwing a tantrum during this discussion. Can I not disagree with you without being accused of this behavior?
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2019 01:55 PM by Rice93.)
(07-14-2019 12:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: one side believes in merit-based decisions.
The other side thinks minorities cannot compete if merit is the basis, so they enforce politices based on race.
Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
Equally, it doesn’t mean one believes that minorities are NOT in some ways inferior. Again, it’s an unfortunate tendency (not a rule, but a tendency) that I’ve seen first-hand; that thoughtful people across the political spectrum have cautioned about; that some minority leftists have pointed out, sometimes with considerable frustration; that even some of my leftist PHD friends have said that is a valid concern. Against that we have you covering your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “Stop it! I dont want to hear it!”
Pretty sure that I’m not throwing a tantrum during this discussion. Can I not disagree with you without being accused of this behavior?
You can certainly disagree. Pretty sure that calling the view you disagree with "inflammatory" and "outrageous", and then refusing to back off on that characterization, is at least mildly tantrum-like.
(07-14-2019 12:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: one side believes in merit-based decisions.
The other side thinks minorities cannot compete if merit is the basis, so they enforce politices based on race.
Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
Equally, it doesn’t mean one believes that minorities are NOT in some ways inferior. Again, it’s an unfortunate tendency (not a rule, but a tendency) that I’ve seen first-hand; that thoughtful people across the political spectrum have cautioned about; that some minority leftists have pointed out, sometimes with considerable frustration; that even some of my leftist PHD friends have said that is a valid concern. Against that we have you covering your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “Stop it! I dont want to hear it!”
Pretty sure that I’m not throwing a tantrum during this discussion. Can I not disagree with you without being accused of this behavior?
You can certainly disagree. Pretty sure that calling the view you disagree with "inflammatory" and "outrageous", and then refusing to back off on that characterization, is at least mildly tantrum-like.
"Mildly" at best, IMO.
What do you think about these quotes?
"obscenely privileged"
"quite frankly your self-admiring blindness makes it tiresome to try"
"It’s time to open your eyes and get off your high horse"
Where do those stand vis-a-vis my use of the term "inflammatory"?
(07-14-2019 12:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote: Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
Equally, it doesn’t mean one believes that minorities are NOT in some ways inferior. Again, it’s an unfortunate tendency (not a rule, but a tendency) that I’ve seen first-hand; that thoughtful people across the political spectrum have cautioned about; that some minority leftists have pointed out, sometimes with considerable frustration; that even some of my leftist PHD friends have said that is a valid concern. Against that we have you covering your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “Stop it! I dont want to hear it!”
Pretty sure that I’m not throwing a tantrum during this discussion. Can I not disagree with you without being accused of this behavior?
You can certainly disagree. Pretty sure that calling the view you disagree with "inflammatory" and "outrageous", and then refusing to back off on that characterization, is at least mildly tantrum-like.
"Mildly" at best, IMO.
What do you think about these quotes?
"obscenely privileged"
"quite frankly your self-admiring blindness makes it tiresome to try"
"It’s time to open your eyes and get off your high horse"
Where do those stand vis-a-vis my use of the term "inflammatory"?
If you are concerned about rhetorical overkill, why did you start with "inflammatory" and double-down with "outrageous"?
Look, we get it: a recent convert to leftism, it is important to your self-identify to believe that leftism is all purity and light, and that anything sordid is necessarily conservative. But that's not the case. Leftism, like all of mankind, is rife with the bigoted, the venal, and the clueless. The reason you don't see it is not because it's not there, but because you are blind to it. So yes, it is time to open your eyes. Why are you so adamant about not doing so?
(07-14-2019 01:40 PM)georgewebb Wrote: Equally, it doesn’t mean one believes that minorities are NOT in some ways inferior. Again, it’s an unfortunate tendency (not a rule, but a tendency) that I’ve seen first-hand; that thoughtful people across the political spectrum have cautioned about; that some minority leftists have pointed out, sometimes with considerable frustration; that even some of my leftist PHD friends have said that is a valid concern. Against that we have you covering your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “Stop it! I dont want to hear it!”
Pretty sure that I’m not throwing a tantrum during this discussion. Can I not disagree with you without being accused of this behavior?
You can certainly disagree. Pretty sure that calling the view you disagree with "inflammatory" and "outrageous", and then refusing to back off on that characterization, is at least mildly tantrum-like.
"Mildly" at best, IMO.
What do you think about these quotes?
"obscenely privileged"
"quite frankly your self-admiring blindness makes it tiresome to try"
"It’s time to open your eyes and get off your high horse"
Where do those stand vis-a-vis my use of the term "inflammatory"?
If you are concerned about rhetorical overkill, why did you start with "inflammatory" and double-down with "outrageous"?
Look, we get it: a recent convert to leftism, it is important to your self-identify to believe that leftism is all purity and light, and that anything sordid is necessarily conservative. But that's not the case. Leftism, like all of mankind, is rife with the bigoted, the venal, and the clueless. The reason you don't see it is not because it's not there, but because you are blind to it. So yes, it is time to open your eyes. Why are you so adamant about not doing so?
I don't completely disagree with you here and it seems that I (Lad, too) am looked at as a flag-bearer for all things leftist on this forum. There's a lot that I don't like when it comes to leftism. The extremists on both sides are terrible.
(07-14-2019 09:45 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: To be clear - if you had asked me how the 3/5ths compromise had came to be, I would have quickly and easily explained this point. I would be surprised if it was taught in any other way other than as a compromise regarding representation.
The issue that was nuanced is whether or not the 3/5ths was just towards how it treated slaves at the time - that isn’t really the perspective that I remember learning about it. I remember learning about it from a states’ interest perspective. The states’ interest and slaves’ interests overlap in a way that is nuanced.
It really isnt that nuanced.
The outcome for states is crystal clear.
The outcome for slaves on the compromise is easy to ascertain and is stark --- the outcome on slaves' interests is actually zero. Whether the number is .1, or zero, or 50 billion has zero outcome for a slave's interest. In other words, it didnt treat the slaves toany outcome whatsoever.
No offense, I dont see the nuance in the interplay. There is zero. If one doesnt want to look at the effect of an any non-zero number and just blindly remember the term the 3/5's Compromise, that lack of actually knowing what the one result is is on the the person who chooses to simply memorize the name, and/or the one that blindly chants without a basis that it is 'racist'.
(07-14-2019 09:13 AM)Rice93 Wrote: You have a better long-term memory than me. I have zero recollection of how my American history class was taught in fifth grade.
Weird, I recall pretty much exactly how it was taught, in 5th grade
I don't think it's that weird. Clear recollection of the approach to teaching a moment in 5th grade American history??? I'm pretty sure you and George are the exception and not the rule.
But we didn’t make sweeping claims about the impact of the teaching . You did - and now admit that your basis is flimsy.
I probably didn't present it well in terms of the teaching. I should have said something to the affect of "every year a new crop of 10-year-olds hear about the 3/5ths compromise and some likely internalize that the Founding Fathers felt that black people were not equal to white people" as opposed to "every year a new crop of 10-year-olds are taught...".
And you miss out on the full crop of graduate degreed people who scream on MSNBC on a continuous basis that this is overt evidence of 'racism as it doesnt even count a black as a full human being'.
The problem may partly reside in the teaching; it is exacerbated by any number of race baiting progressives (whom have the background to know better) who chant this on TV ad nauseum.
(07-14-2019 12:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: one side believes in merit-based decisions.
The other side thinks minorities cannot compete if merit is the basis, so they enforce politices based on race.
Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive doesn’t mean that one believes that black people are stupid.
So do you believe that liberals tend to agree that
Quote:Because one may believe that a history of systemic racism has had a detrimental affect on the education that many black children receive[?]
Seems to me that you may not agree that they "believe that black people are stupid", but when you defend that by saying that they do believe that they are systemically undereducated, then what is the difference?
Go to 0:50 and listen to Meghan McCain's very short, very direct question.
Can *anyone* tell me what the fk Kamala's position is on the legality of border crossing? It seems that from her perspective if you make it across, there is a pathway to citizenship. Then she goes into some mumbo jumbo crap about civil enforcement of the law.
Not to mention her 20 sec flopping around on the issue to begin the answer.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2019 05:00 PM by tanqtonic.)
(07-15-2019 04:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: Question for the board as a whole.
Go to 0:50 and listen to Meghan McCain's very short, very direct question.
Can *anyone* tell me what the fk Kamala's position is on the legality of border crossing? It seems that from her perspective if you make it across, there is a pathway to citizenship. Then she goes into some mumbo jumbo crap about civil enforcement of the law.
Not to mention her 20 sec flopping around on the issue to begin the answer.
We are in deep doo-doo if that *itch gets anywhere near the White House.
(07-15-2019 04:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: Question for the board as a whole.
Go to 0:50 and listen to Meghan McCain's very short, very direct question.
Can *anyone* tell me what the fk Kamala's position is on the legality of border crossing? It seems that from her perspective if you make it across, there is a pathway to citizenship. Then she goes into some mumbo jumbo crap about civil enforcement of the law.
Not to mention her 20 sec flopping around on the issue to begin the answer.
We are in deep doo-doo if that *itch gets anywhere near the White House.
I will take that as a "no" that you, as I do, have zero understanding of her position in the slightest. Glad to know Im not going 'Trump base' deaf.
This just got a mouthful of blown coffee on the keyboard. He said this. Literally.
Quote:[Biden] said that under his plan, if "you like your employer-based insurance, you get to keep it."
I'm thinking all sorts of plagiarism comments which seem to fit Joe like a time honored guest, and comments on the 'Slow Joe' avenue --- but..... I'll let that comment just stand on its own.
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Democratic Presidential Horse Race thread
