(07-22-2018 07:14 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  I've explained on too many occasions how my first roomie was gay and I've lived with lesbians.....

some of them simply think we're all from the same cloth.......they'd be wrong....

all of this is at another level of tension unseen in the modern era.....

it's going to be interesting what happens after the mids and the '20 general.....

#interestingtimestheseare

I, for one, would like to hear more about the I've lived with lesbians part.

(07-22-2018 07:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 07:14 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 07:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 06:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Criminalizing people with HIV is a very bad idea. All it will do is keep people from being tested and getting on treatment. And positive people will have higher viral loads, which will cause the disease to spread further. We went down this route during the 1980's. The GOP response then, as it is now, is to blame Gay people for being HIV+.

Yes, there are psychopaths out there (maybe a dozen out of millions of LGBT persons) that are out there infecting others. But the impact of criminalization is to make being HIV positive a crime. The key is to get everyone on Truvada and be done with it.

Trying to argue for criminalization in a world where it is legal (and supported by many Republicans) to fire someone for being LGBT, to deny them healthcare (as happened to my brother), to deny them equal access to government funded jobs, to deny equal access to public accommodations and housing is just going to be seen as an attempt by the GOP/Alt Right/Putinists to jail people for being Gay.

Why no focus on criminaliztion of people who knowingly pass on Hepititis? Oh that impacts straight white Christians.

The defense of criminalization statutes is just a back door by Robert Jeffress, Tony Perkins, and Mike Pence in their goal of criminalizingall LGBT persons in the USA, regardless of serostatus.

No person with HIV (nor any Gay person) has any reason to trust the Trump Administration. We have every reason to expect the worst from them. They are completely filled with people who wish to harm them. This administration has repeatedly lied about the scope of their actions against other minorities (e.g., were not targeting non-violent immigrants, etc..).

----

Criminal prosecution of HIV positive persons will just cause the disease to spread faster.

Call me when they start throwing a bunch of white straight Christians in prison for spreading Hepatitis. I'd argue that chronic Hepititis is more deadly and disabling than HIV is today.

The law is against knowingly spreading the disease. It's not against the HIV positive person. It's not against the LGBT community, but rather was put on the books to protect not only them, but society as a whole.

Having spent 20 plus years in non profit work I can assure you that I knew personally of over a dozen people who were infected by HIV positive individuals who knowingly and without warning to their partners spread the disease intentionally. Several of them even stated in counseling that they felt angry about having gotten the disease and so they acted out in anger over it. And not all of them were members of the LGBT community. Some were heterosexuals who had gotten the disease through sexual transmission.

People under duress do stupid and sometimes horrific things. So to say that the law was directed only against LGBT persons is pure hyperbolic bullcrap!

So let's keep this where it should be Tom. The law was meant to protect the uninfected and especially at a time when it could have been epidemic in transmission.

A stance permitting people to knowingly spread the disease to the uninfected is simply heinous in conception and reflective of nothing but extreme narcissism. It is certainly not altruistic enough to think of the health of generations to yet unborn.

I've explained on too many occasions how my first roomie was gay and I've lived with lesbians.....

some of them simply think we're all from the same cloth.......they'd be wrong....

all of this is at another level of tension unseen in the modern era.....

it's going to be interesting what happens after the mids and the '20 general.....

#interestingtimestheseare

I agree. It is currently creating a feeling of ill will toward the LGBT movement among those who heretofore have been tolerant and have not been homophobic. Diseases don't have rights. And people who knowingly harm another violate the most common and universally accepted of laws. To maintain this stance is only going to create a much worse environment socially than the one that already exists.

the level of current insensitivity is beyond my ability to rationally comprehend......and I'm hardly the only one that prescribes to lines 3 and 4 in my sig......

they're playing in the wrong playground in the wrong way.....

#theirchoice

#wontendwellforthem

(07-22-2018 06:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Criminalizing people with HIV is a very bad idea. All it will do is keep people from being tested and getting on treatment. And positive people will have higher viral loads, which will cause the disease to spread further. We went down this route during the 1980's. The GOP response then, as it is now, is to blame Gay people for being HIV+.

Yes, there are psychopaths out there (maybe a dozen out of millions of LGBT persons) that are out there infecting others. But the impact of criminalization is to make being HIV positive a crime. The key is to get everyone on Truvada and be done with it.

Trying to argue for criminalization in a world where it is legal (and supported by many Republicans) to fire someone for being LGBT, to deny them healthcare (as happened to my brother), to deny them equal access to government funded jobs, to deny equal access to public accommodations and housing is just going to be seen as an attempt by the GOP/Alt Right/Putinists to jail people for being Gay.

Why no focus on criminaliztion of people who knowingly pass on Hepititis? Oh that impacts straight white Christians.

The defense of criminalization statutes is just a back door by Robert Jeffress, Tony Perkins, and Mike Pence in their goal of criminalizingall LGBT persons in the USA, regardless of serostatus.

No person with HIV (nor any Gay person) has any reason to trust the Trump Administration. We have every reason to expect the worst from them. They are completely filled with people who wish to harm them. This administration has repeatedly lied about the scope of their actions against other minorities (e.g., were not targeting non-violent immigrants, etc..).

----

Criminal prosecution of HIV positive persons will just cause the disease to spread faster.

Call me when they start throwing a bunch of white straight Christians in prison for spreading Hepatitis. I'd argue that chronic Hepititis is more deadly and disabling than HIV is today.

I don't blame gay people for being HIV+ but any person who is HIV+ and knowingly has unprotected sex needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, straight or gay.

(07-22-2018 08:03 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  I don't blame gay people for being HIV+ but any person who is HIV+ and knowingly has unprotected sex needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, straight or gay.

Your phrasing is a bit too haphazard. Otherwise I agree. There is more nuance here. A better phrasing might be:

Anybody who his HIV positive has a duty to inform their partner about their status as part of achieving consent. That applies to any level of HIV status including medicated undetectable. Failure to disclose to a sexual partner is a criminal offense. If that sexual partner contracts HIV then it is also a civil offense.

Come on folks. You guys who don't vote for Democrats don't give two sh*ts about stopping HIV/AIDS. Your leader has slashed HIV funding to pay for toddler jails, has slashed funding for any group that the LGBT community trusts, has removed health care protections for HIV and LGBT persons, and the list goes on.

Since the GOP/Non-Democrats are doing everything possible to encourage the spread of HIV, then the only plausible reason for criminalization is to try to criminalize being Gay.

And why no similar treatement of Hepetitis.

----

How about free Truvada? That would end HIV transmission, immediately.

(07-22-2018 08:03 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  I don't blame gay people for being HIV+ but any person who is HIV+ and knowingly has unprotected sex needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, straight or gay.

I agree, but we're talking liberals here - they might actually WANT to get AIDS. I know, I know. They are that sick.

Wait, I thought HIV wasn’t a gay disease? At least that’s what Oprah told us in the late 80s.

(07-22-2018 06:30 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 06:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Criminalizing people with HIV is a very bad idea.

That's an EXCELLENT argument to a point no one has tried to make,.

BS, thats EXACTLY what Pence and the Trump administration wants to do.

Why not go arrest a bunch of white straight Christians for spreading Hepetitis?

(07-22-2018 08:21 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Wait, I thought HIV wasn’t a gay disease? At least that’s what Oprah told us in the late 80s.

That was only to try to get the Reagan Administration to stop ignoring the disease, while their evangelical Christian supporters cheered the deaths of 60 million LGBT persons from a disease.

HIV does impact people who aren't Gay. But in an environment of massive discrimination against LGBT persons, as it is now under Trump, any attempt to criminalize people for being HIV , absent it being part of a larger criminalization of other chronic diseases like Hepetitits that impact straight people in greater numbers, can only be seen as an attempt to criminalize and demonize all LGBT persons.

(07-22-2018 08:12 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:03 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  I don't blame gay people for being HIV+ but any person who is HIV+ and knowingly has unprotected sex needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, straight or gay.

Your phrasing is a bit too haphazard. Otherwise I agree. There is more nuance here. A better phrasing might be:

Anybody who his HIV positive has a duty to inform their partner about their status as part of achieving consent. That applies to any level of HIV status including medicated undetectable. Failure to disclose to a sexual partner is a criminal offense. If that sexual partner contracts HIV then it is also a civil offense.

I would nuance it even further.

To me, assuming both parties are adults, a better phrasing might be:

Anybody who is HIV positive has a duty to inform their partner about their status as part of achieving consent IF the potential partner requests that information.

That's to say, some adults may wish to have sex with another person and not care, or bother to ask, if the potential partner is HIV positive. That's their responsibility in that case, not the responsibility of the HIV positive person.

(07-22-2018 08:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 06:30 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 06:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Criminalizing people with HIV is a very bad idea.

That's an EXCELLENT argument to a point no one has tried to make,.

BS, thats EXACTLY what Pence and the Trump administration wants to do.

Why not go arrest a bunch of white straight Christians for spreading Hepetitis?

You harm your cause when you switch to hysterics mode.

(07-22-2018 08:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Come on folks. You guys who don't vote for Democrats don't give two sh*ts about stopping HIV/AIDS. Your leader has slashed HIV funding to pay for toddler jails, has slashed funding for any group that the LGBT community trusts, has removed health care protections for HIV and LGBT persons, and the list goes on.

Since the GOP/Non-Democrats are doing everything possible to encourage the spread of HIV, then the only plausible reason for criminalization is to try to criminalize being Gay.

And why no similar treatement of Hepetitis.

----

How about free Truvada? That would end HIV transmission, immediately.

So what responsibility does an individual who is HIV+ have in not transmitting the disease? In your book, it sounds like they don't have any responsibility. Just have the government fix it. You are truly a liberal in every sense of the word.

(07-22-2018 08:32 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 06:30 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 06:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Criminalizing people with HIV is a very bad idea.

That's an EXCELLENT argument to a point no one has tried to make,.

BS, thats EXACTLY what Pence and the Trump administration wants to do.

Why not go arrest a bunch of white straight Christians for spreading Hepetitis?

You harm your cause when you switch to hysterics mode.

LOL. Only the disease that impacts the LGBT community disproportionately is subject to criminalization....Why no criminalization of Hepetitis?

This is part of the Trump administrations attempt to effectively remove LGBT persons from American life. Via effective bans on many taxpayer funded jobs, slashed funding for groups that serve us, increasing discrimination in all facets of public and private life, and coordination with actual people who preside over real concentration camps targeting Gay people.

This is just a repeat of the 1980's, where people tried to demonize and criminalize people with HIV as a way to dehumanize all LGBT persons.

Again, come back and talk to me about criminalization of HIV when you start imprisoning people for spreading Hep or Tuberculosis. And why no free Truvada?

(07-22-2018 08:39 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Come on folks. You guys who don't vote for Democrats don't give two sh*ts about stopping HIV/AIDS. Your leader has slashed HIV funding to pay for toddler jails, has slashed funding for any group that the LGBT community trusts, has removed health care protections for HIV and LGBT persons, and the list goes on.

Since the GOP/Non-Democrats are doing everything possible to encourage the spread of HIV, then the only plausible reason for criminalization is to try to criminalize being Gay.

And why no similar treatement of Hepetitis.

----

How about free Truvada? That would end HIV transmission, immediately.

So what responsibility does an individual who is HIV+ have in not transmitting the disease? In your book, it sounds like they don't have any responsibility. Just have the government fix it. You are truly a liberal in every sense of the word.

They have no more, nor any less responsibility than someone with Hepetitis or Tuburculosis, or MRSA. I have proposed a way to wipe out HIV. But it involves free Truvada. Which costs 1600 a year in the USA (less than 20 a year in other countries).

(07-22-2018 08:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Come on folks. You guys who don't vote for Democrats don't give two sh*ts about stopping HIV/AIDS. Your leader has slashed HIV funding to pay for toddler jails, has slashed funding for any group that the LGBT community trusts, has removed health care protections for HIV and LGBT persons, and the list goes on.

Since the GOP/Non-Democrats are doing everything possible to encourage the spread of HIV, then the only plausible reason for criminalization is to try to criminalize being Gay.

And why no similar treatement of Hepetitis.

----

How about free Truvada? That would end HIV transmission, immediately.

put down the pipe son.....you're implying all HIV+ are donks and all 'phants are HIV+ antagonists.......that's just damned retarded.....

but it doesn't matter what I say......ewe are just gonna be ewe with that bs.....

(07-22-2018 08:19 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:03 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  I don't blame gay people for being HIV+ but any person who is HIV+ and knowingly has unprotected sex needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, straight or gay.

I agree, but we're talking liberals here - they might actually WANT to get AIDS. I know, I know. They are that sick.

This is the kind of thing used to legitimize Tom's utterly absurd thinking.

(07-22-2018 08:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:39 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Come on folks. You guys who don't vote for Democrats don't give two sh*ts about stopping HIV/AIDS. Your leader has slashed HIV funding to pay for toddler jails, has slashed funding for any group that the LGBT community trusts, has removed health care protections for HIV and LGBT persons, and the list goes on.

Since the GOP/Non-Democrats are doing everything possible to encourage the spread of HIV, then the only plausible reason for criminalization is to try to criminalize being Gay.

And why no similar treatement of Hepetitis

----

How about free Truvada? That would end HIV transmission, immediately.

So what responsibility does an individual who is HIV+ have in not transmitting the disease? In your book, it sounds like they don't have any responsibility. Just have the government fix it. You are truly a liberal in every sense of the word.

They have no more, nor any less responsibility than someone with Hepetitis or Tuburculosis, or MRSA. I have proposed a way to wipe out HIV. But it involves free Truvada. Which costs 1600 a year in the USA (less than 20 a year in other countries).

why should I or your dippo ZERO health care ponzi schema contribute to ewe'r inadequacies.....are you going to fund mine???

(07-22-2018 08:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This is part of the Trump administrations attempt to effectively remove LGBT persons from American life.

I thought we were talking about an issue that was decided at the state level.

Tom is 100% wide open non protected gay anal sex, including men with HIV, with 1,000s of men. They have zero restraint, even the the ones who get married. It is 100% their fault for the STDs they get.

(07-22-2018 09:01 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This is part of the Trump administrations attempt to effectively remove LGBT persons from American life.

I thought we were talking about an issue that was decided at the state level.

Tom should know, he has been living in a Gay FEMA camp. There has never been a more dishonest poster here than Tom, ever.