Per 247, the average recruit "quality" numbers for C-USA are trending upwards.

Do you believe this is indeed a real thing, or an artifact (inflated numbers from 247)?

I think we are improving, but what do you say?

** I'm certain this could have been worded better, but I have a headache, and it's 90 degrees on this porch. **

90 degrees! Just took my dog for a walk at 9:30 PM and it was 94 degrees down from 104 today. Tomorrow it is supposed to be 108 and the humidity is not low. I think our recruits are trending upward just like the temps here in San Antonio but I have nothing to back that up.

Even if 247 is propping up player rankings, our recruiting is still trending up. North Texas traditionally struggled in recruiting until this season. It is amazing what a new recruiting coordinator and investment can do.

(07-22-2018 09:40 PM)WWDog Wrote:  90 degrees! Just took my dog for a walk at 9:30 PM and it was 94 degrees down from 104 today. Tomorrow it is supposed to be 108 and the humidity is not low. I think our recruits are trending upward just like the temps here in San Antonio but I have nothing to back that up.

Live in DFW and promise you if this weather comes around next year I am working remotely from my Michigan relative's residences or at least road tripping for the month of July.

But to answer the OP's post I have been wondering the same. Is 24/7 increasing rankings on the average player or are we collectively bringing in better classes? I think the answer is simple. Here is the average for the Sunbelt https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC in 2018 and here is CUSA https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...ence=C-USA

So while the separation in recruiting is not as high as we wish it was there is def a separation.

For 2019 we can compare these numbers with the SBC being https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Footba...erence=SBC and the CUSA number being https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Footba...ence=C-USA

Uh oh the SBC looks better on average than the CUSA so far :(

User Grommet put this on our board last night, could be useful here. I gave him honor so I could steal his work.

2019*: #2, .7902 1
2018: #13, .7820 2
2017: #13, .7799 5
2016: #12, .7795 6
2015: #10, .7809 4
2014: #2, .7813 3
2013: #14, .7408 9
2012: #13, .7473 7
2011: #12, .7416 8

Year, rank within conference, score, personal rank for ODU

So while we might not be trending up within the conference, we seem to be trending up in total score. If we aren't moving up within the conference while moving up with our own score, then you could reasonably state the conference as a whole is improving too.

2014 is an outlier because that was when we got our first FBS recruiting class so our score is inflated just by the sheer number of recruits. And we understand 2019 isn't done, we will definitely not finish #2 but it's where we are right now.

Having said all that, I think putting too much stock into 247 and recruiting rankings in general is an unhealthy habit. Our players don't get much attention at all unless they receive P5 offers. There simply aren't enough people rating these guys to be accurate and consistent.

Football ratings are far and away the least reliable of any recruiting rankings for any collegiate sport. For one thing, there is less club level football compared to other sports (you have 7 on 7 in Texas but a lot of places, you only get to see the recruits during football season). And for another, so much of football is based on how a kid develops physically and much of that is in college and not high school. One of the top rated recruits I can ever recall signing with Rice out of high school was a top 30 kid in Texas over two decades ago who was incredibly over-rated and never a good college player at all.

I don't think you can get a true sense of what you've got until the actual season begins.

247 tends to rate more 3 star players over the last few years so that could be why you see a increase

2336 players listed as 3 stars or above 2018....top 400 is 4 star or above

The top 70 classes averaged 22 recruits each and if all of those were 3 stars or higher that's a total of 1540 and leaves 796 for the other 58 classes or on average 13.7 three star players for each of the bottom 58 classes

2014 there were 85 three star recruits in CUSA,
2015 there were 108 total 3 stars recruited to CUSA
2016 there were a total of 97 3 star recruits to CUSA schools

.2017 -128 and 2018-169

So are the coaches recruiting better or is 247 just rating more players? I know they are rating more kids as 3 star players thats a fact. Not only that after looking at their composite rating something does not measure up.

Here's a example of a Western recruit
Daylen Powell has a 247SPORTS COMPOSITE rating of 0.8154

His Rival's rating is 5.4 or 2 star
His 247 rating is .82 or a 3 star

This is how 247 rates players
89-80 = Three-star prospect. These are the players who will develop into reliable starters for the college teams. They are among the best players in their region of the country, and are generally among the top 750 players in the nation.

79-below = Two-star prospect. These players make up the bulk of Division I rosters. They may have little pro potential, are likely to become role players for their respective schools or not enough is known about the prospect to rank them accurately.

So if you break down the Rivals rating (5.2-5.4 = Two-star prospect) as the highest 2 star that would be .79

Avg that out and you get .805 not .815

So I guess 247 values Rivals rating more than their own? Rivals rating would need to be a solid 3 star or .81 to get to the COMPOSITE rating of 0.8154.


One other thing that I pointed out on another thread....if you have a paid board on 247 they tend to rate your recruits higher. At least it looks that way for Western over the previous 3 classes.


Talent will show itself on the field...not recruiting ratings

(07-22-2018 08:38 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Per 247, the average recruit "quality" numbers for C-USA are trending upwards.

Do you believe this is indeed a real thing, or an artifact (inflated numbers from 247)?

I think we are improving, but what do you say?

** I'm certain this could have been worded better, but I have a headache, and it's 90 degrees on this porch. **

Football or basketball? Recruiting doesn't matter as much in football, lot more guys all about the same coming out of high school....System and coaching matter way more than talent in football.....Basketball is where you can separate yourself by getting guys with talent....

Well if you ask particular LaTech fans, they're not really 3 star players unless they have at LEAST 3 SEC offers, a handful of Big 12, and maybe a Pac-12 offer for good measure.

Then MAYBE the player MIGHT be a 3 star, but only if LaTech deemed it so.

(07-23-2018 07:30 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Football or basketball? Recruiting doesn't matter as much in football, lot more guys all about the same coming out of high school....System and coaching matter way more than talent in football.....Basketball is where you can separate yourself by getting guys with talent....

Dan D'Antoni can tell you that you are full of crap too. Except for Iran Bennett who was a 3 star and once a 4 star recruit, D'Antoni has signed nothing but 2 star recruits. And why are they 2 star recruits because most of them are from areas not looked at that often or are from overseas.

If everyone on the Marshall roster would have been evaluated correctly then they would all been 3 and 4 star recruits. But no one in WV unless you go to Huntington Prep or are a stand out like OJ Mayo or Patrick Patterson is are ever going to be evaluated, that's just the way things go. Add the fact that D'Antoni knows how to properly develop them makes them that much better.

There are 3 things Dan looks for in a recruit and if he fails at just 1 Dan has said he won't offer him:

1) Comes from a place with good off the court presence. Must be a good person first.

2) Must have high quality respect of not only himself but for others and understand basketball isn't what will always be the center of your life. That at some point if you even make it to play college ball that's where it ends for most.

3) Must have some athleticism with willingness to learn, be taught and be coached.

In most cases you can look at recruiting rankings over a period of time and those rankings usually show a pattern that if you are in the top half of the rankings then you will be in the top half of the conference and if you are in the bottom half the standings will usually show you in the bottom half. This is the case more times than not. But then if you think outside the box and can develop players like Dan does then all of that goes out the window, no matter what sport.

Good discussion, guys.

(07-23-2018 12:34 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 07:30 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Football or basketball? Recruiting doesn't matter as much in football, lot more guys all about the same coming out of high school....System and coaching matter way more than talent in football.....Basketball is where you can separate yourself by getting guys with talent....

Dan D'Antoni can tell you that you are full of crap too. Except for Iran Bennett who was a 3 star and once a 4 star recruit, D'Antoni has signed nothing but 2 star recruits. And why are they 2 star recruits because most of them are from areas not looked at that often or are from overseas.

If everyone on the Marshall roster would have been evaluated correctly then they would all been 3 and 4 star recruits. But no one in WV unless you go to Huntington Prep or are a stand out like OJ Mayo or Patrick Patterson is are ever going to be evaluated, that's just the way things go. Add the fact that D'Antoni knows how to properly develop them makes them that much better.

There are 3 things Dan looks for in a recruit and if he fails at just 1 Dan has said he won't offer him:

1) Comes from a place with good off the court presence. Must be a good person first.

2) Must have high quality respect of not only himself but for others and understand basketball isn't what will always be the center of your life. That at some point if you even make it to play college ball that's where it ends for most.

3) Must have some athleticism with willingness to learn, be taught and be coached.

In most cases you can look at recruiting rankings over a period of time and those rankings usually show a pattern that if you are in the top half of the rankings then you will be in the top half of the conference and if you are in the bottom half the standings will usually show you in the bottom half. This is the case more times than not. But then if you think outside the box and can develop players like Dan does then all of that goes out the window, no matter what sport.

I agree to a point. In football it seems more often than not, the teams with the best recruiting classes win (Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, etc..). In basketball, teams full of 5 star players lose to well-coached “mid-major” level teams all the time. Teams like the Princeton’s of the past, Gonzagas, Butlers, Wichita State of recent years, MTSU the past two years, George Mason of the past (can go on and on).

Villanova won two of the past three championships and rarely ever has a Top 25 basketball class (they usually average around #40 and middle of the Big East). Wisconsin is another team that, other than last year, has been an elite level team in bball lately but have had recruiting classes in the #50-#100 range typically.

I think college bball was shown recently to have the most wins by underdogs than college football and baseball. A good coach with a good system, experienced players, and that can develop players usually beats a team with 5 star talent.

I should have preface to say in this conference talent in hoops and coaching/system matters the most for football....We are mostly pulling in the same guys recruiting wise for football....Of course the top and same programs like Bama, Georiga, Ohio St. are getting high end talent.....There is less margin for error when you are getting 5 stars...No one in CUSA is pulling several 5 and 4 star talent......CUSA teams are mostly getting 3 star talent which is a huge group, which is why coaching and system matter the most for CUSA...This has been proven over and over again....FOr hoops talent can really separate yourself in this conference or at least gives you a great chance to be successful....WKU last season pretty much had 1 guy returning this time last year and he didn't return until early August and we finished 2nd in conf....

(07-23-2018 09:12 AM)MGNation92 Wrote:  Well if you ask particular LaTech fans, they're not really 3 star players unless they have at LEAST 3 SEC offers, a handful of Big 12, and maybe a Pac-12 offer for good measure.

No, but it would be helpful if your "3-star recruits" had offers from someone other than the Denton County Barber & Cosmetology School.

(07-23-2018 09:12 AM)MGNation92 Wrote:  Well if you ask particular LaTech fans, they're not really 3 star players unless they have at LEAST 3 SEC offers, a handful of Big 12, and maybe a Pac-12 offer for good measure.

Then MAYBE the player MIGHT be a 3 star, but only if LaTech deemed it so.

I don’t put much stock in Tech players ratings either, but when I see a 3 Star with offers from McMurry, Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, doesn’t that make you wonder?

I think that big RB that UNT pick up might be a solid RB in CUSA, injury free of course. That’s the main concern with RB

(07-24-2018 10:16 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 09:12 AM)MGNation92 Wrote:  Well if you ask particular LaTech fans, they're not really 3 star players unless they have at LEAST 3 SEC offers, a handful of Big 12, and maybe a Pac-12 offer for good measure.

No, but it would be helpful if your "3-star recruits" had offers from someone other than the Denton County Barber & Cosmetology School.

(07-23-2018 07:30 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(07-22-2018 08:38 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Per 247, the average recruit "quality" numbers for C-USA are trending upwards.

Do you believe this is indeed a real thing, or an artifact (inflated numbers from 247)?

I think we are improving, but what do you say?

** I'm certain this could have been worded better, but I have a headache, and it's 90 degrees on this porch. **

Football or basketball? Recruiting doesn't matter as much in football, lot more guys all about the same coming out of high school....System and coaching matter way more than talent in football.....Basketball is where you can separate yourself by getting guys with talent....

Totally agree, that’s why a sigh every time a UNT fan posts a thread about 3* recruit.

You haven’t had NFL draft pick in over decade, let’s see how this 3* talent plays out against drastically better competition than high school

(07-24-2018 10:16 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 09:12 AM)MGNation92 Wrote:  Well if you ask particular LaTech fans, they're not really 3 star players unless they have at LEAST 3 SEC offers, a handful of Big 12, and maybe a Pac-12 offer for good measure.

No, but it would be helpful if your "3-star recruits" had offers from someone other than the Denton County Barber & Cosmetology School.

Boy y'all love sniffing your own farts don't you?

(07-24-2018 03:29 PM)MGNation92 Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 10:16 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 09:12 AM)MGNation92 Wrote:  Well if you ask particular LaTech fans, they're not really 3 star players unless they have at LEAST 3 SEC offers, a handful of Big 12, and maybe a Pac-12 offer for good measure.

No, but it would be helpful if your "3-star recruits" had offers from someone other than the Denton County Barber & Cosmetology School.

Boy y'all love sniffing your own farts don't you?

Wow. Thanks Gomer. That's "country come to town", right there.

I really have given up caring about recruiting class rankings. It's really a self fulling prophecy to a large extent. I think the top 300-400 players are really evaluated. The rest is simply looking at who offers and the desire of recruiting sites to drive happy traffic. That's why they are increasing the number of 3 stars. Makes fans excited to go to the site and clicks are bucks for them.

To be honest, some of our top players have been former walk ons lately. Chase Hancock, pre-season all conference LB and Malik Gant, preseason Thorpe list, former walk ons. Kids develop at such different rates and have such a difference in coaching and strength training coming up that you never really know how they will develop in college. Four and five star busts are usually just kids that reach their full potential at 17-18 years old.