Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Big East/BXII Challenge
Author Message
Attackcoog Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 44,866
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 2883
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #61
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
Sounds like the Mountain West and A-10 have agreed to a basketball challenge as well.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html
10-18-2018 10:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,860
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 1470
I Root For: NIU, Chicago St
Location:
Post: #62
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
Interesting that SDSU is the lone team who keeps voting and pushing against conference challenges.
10-18-2018 10:09 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,685
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #63
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
Thinking about it, there are some intriguing coaching matchups for a potential BE/B12 Challenge:

TCU/Villanova (Dixon and Wright always had strong battles in the old Big East)
West Virginia/Xavier (Huggins back in Cincinnati)
Iowa State/Creighton (McDermott back in Ames)
Baylor/Butler (Drew went to Butler)
Texas/Marquette (Smart nearly went to Marquette in 2014)

Additionally, Kansas/Georgetown, K-State/Providence, Texas Tech/St. Johns and Oklahoma State/Seton Hall and Oklahoma/DePaul would all provide good matchups for the league.
10-18-2018 10:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 21,917
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1181
I Root For: Jimmy Nippert
Location:
Post: #64
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 10:25 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Thinking about it, there are some intriguing coaching matchups for a potential BE/B12 Challenge:

TCU/Villanova (Dixon and Wright always had strong battles in the old Big East)
West Virginia/Xavier (Huggins back in Cincinnati)
Iowa State/Creighton (McDermott back in Ames)
Baylor/Butler (Drew went to Butler)
Texas/Marquette (Smart nearly went to Marquette in 2014)

Additionally, Kansas/Georgetown, K-State/Providence, Texas Tech/St. Johns and Oklahoma State/Seton Hall and Oklahoma/DePaul would all provide good matchups for the league.

I'd rather see... and I think most would agree... WVU vs. Cincinnati.
10-18-2018 10:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 21,917
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1181
I Root For: Jimmy Nippert
Location:
Post: #65
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 02:58 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-17-2018 09:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'd like to see the AAC sign into a challenge with the MWC or the A10. As a Cincinnati fan, I would rather play P5 schools; but I must admit a challenge with these conferences will help boost the RPI of schools like USF and ECU that continue to negatively impact the stronger basketball schools in the conference.

How does that help the AAC if ECU gets beat by Fresno or Fordham? It won't even boost their Strength of Schedule.

I'd rather UC just sign one-off deals with schools like Dayton, SLU, and New Mexico, sort of like we're doing this year with UNLV.

I'd like to think ECU could take down Fordham. Playing in those markets could also help out the lesser programs in the conference with exposure and recruiting.
10-18-2018 10:31 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 50,184
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 2425
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: New Orleans
Post: #66
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 10:25 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Thinking about it, there are some intriguing coaching matchups for a potential BE/B12 Challenge:

TCU/Villanova (Dixon and Wright always had strong battles in the old Big East)
West Virginia/Xavier (Huggins back in Cincinnati)
Iowa State/Creighton (McDermott back in Ames)
Baylor/Butler (Drew went to Butler)
Texas/Marquette (Smart nearly went to Marquette in 2014)

WVU vs Cincy is an obvious matchup as they had bitter battles in the Big East.

But, I love this challenge! Hopefully we get games with blue-blood Kansas, and we will wave our banner in Texas.

A good case can be made that Val Ackerman has been the most effective conference commissioner of the CFP era.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2018 10:44 AM by quo vadis.)
10-18-2018 10:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
usffan Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,021
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 691
I Root For: USF
Location:
Post: #67
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 02:58 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-17-2018 09:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'd like to see the AAC sign into a challenge with the MWC or the A10. As a Cincinnati fan, I would rather play P5 schools; but I must admit a challenge with these conferences will help boost the RPI of schools like USF and ECU that continue to negatively impact the stronger basketball schools in the conference.

How does that help the AAC if ECU gets beat by Fresno or Fordham? It won't even boost their Strength of Schedule.

I'd rather UC just sign one-off deals with schools like Dayton, SLU, and New Mexico, sort of like we're doing this year with UNLV.

Not sure if you're actually interested, but here goes:

RPI is simply calculated as follows: 0.25x(your winning percentage) + 0.50x(your opponent's winning percentage) + 0.25x(your opponent's opponent's winning percentage).

So, ECU playing Fresno, who went 21-11 last year for a .656 winning percentage, is better for Cincinnati's RPI than their loss to Central Connecticut State, who went 14-18 for a .438 winning percentage. Of course, ECU winning all of their non-conference games would contribute even more to Cincinnati's RPI overall, which is why when people get riled up about poor teams playing cupcakes it makes me roll my eyes...

As for what it would look like if the AAC had actually set up a MWC challenge, I suspect it would have looked like:

Cincinnati vs. Nevada
Wichita State vs. San Diego State
Houston vs. Boise State
SMU vs. Fresno State
Temple vs. UNLV
UCF vs. New Mexico
Tulsa vs. Wyoming
UConn vs. Utah State
Memphis vs. Colorado State
Tulane vs. Air Force
ECU vs. San Jose State
USF vs. nobody

I suspect the AAC would have been favored in most if not all of those games...

USFFan
10-18-2018 12:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,685
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #68
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 10:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 10:25 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Thinking about it, there are some intriguing coaching matchups for a potential BE/B12 Challenge:

TCU/Villanova (Dixon and Wright always had strong battles in the old Big East)
West Virginia/Xavier (Huggins back in Cincinnati)
Iowa State/Creighton (McDermott back in Ames)
Baylor/Butler (Drew went to Butler)
Texas/Marquette (Smart nearly went to Marquette in 2014)

WVU vs Cincy is an obvious matchup as they had bitter battles in the Big East.

But, I love this challenge! Hopefully we get games with blue-blood Kansas, and we will wave our banner in Texas.

A good case can be made that Val Ackerman has been the most effective conference commissioner of the CFP era.

Val has been phenomenal. She has increased our presence with Fox, led the conference's launching of the Big East Digital Network, helped launch a number of health/leadership/service initiatives within the conference, and has drawn attention to the academic success each of the institutions have had. She has had a very calm and confident voice in representing the Big East (contrary to what Aresco and Marinatto both were), and speaks as a member of the top conferences in college athletics (rather than fighting to be included as one). She is clearly respected among her peers, and has the conference headed strongly in the right direction.

I hope she is the league's commissioner for many years to come.
10-18-2018 01:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bogg Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,857
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 157
I Root For: UConn
Location:
Post: #69
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 12:56 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 02:58 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-17-2018 09:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'd like to see the AAC sign into a challenge with the MWC or the A10. As a Cincinnati fan, I would rather play P5 schools; but I must admit a challenge with these conferences will help boost the RPI of schools like USF and ECU that continue to negatively impact the stronger basketball schools in the conference.

How does that help the AAC if ECU gets beat by Fresno or Fordham? It won't even boost their Strength of Schedule.

I'd rather UC just sign one-off deals with schools like Dayton, SLU, and New Mexico, sort of like we're doing this year with UNLV.

Not sure if you're actually interested, but here goes:

RPI is simply calculated as follows: 0.25x(your winning percentage) + 0.50x(your opponent's winning percentage) + 0.25x(your opponent's opponent's winning percentage).

So, ECU playing Fresno, who went 21-11 last year for a .656 winning percentage, is better for Cincinnati's RPI than their loss to Central Connecticut State, who went 14-18 for a .438 winning percentage. Of course, ECU winning all of their non-conference games would contribute even more to Cincinnati's RPI overall, which is why when people get riled up about poor teams playing cupcakes it makes me roll my eyes...

As for what it would look like if the AAC had actually set up a MWC challenge, I suspect it would have looked like:

Cincinnati vs. Nevada
Wichita State vs. San Diego State
Houston vs. Boise State
SMU vs. Fresno State
Temple vs. UNLV
UCF vs. New Mexico
Tulsa vs. Wyoming
UConn vs. Utah State
Memphis vs. Colorado State
Tulane vs. Air Force
ECU vs. San Jose State
USF vs. nobody

I suspect the AAC would have been favored in most if not all of those games...

USFFan

I suspect the AAC would prefer to have no challenges than arrange a challenge with a non-P5 conference (excepting perhaps the Big East, but the conference generally prefers to act like they don't exist) just because it would undercut their "Power 6" narrative. The AAC's whole schtick is that there are 6 major "all-sports"-playing conferences, and that they're a member of that group, not a part of the G5 or the four or five mid-major basketball conferences (loosely, the A10, MW, MVC, WCC [as long as Gonzaga's there], and then if you include the AAC. Certain AAC fans will also make the argument that the Big East is a mid-major that's had unusual luck). The P5 all have arrangements/challenges with each other (plus the Big East) and none of the mid-majors, while the A-10 and Mountain West have a challenge and the Mountain West recently wrapped up one with the Missouri Valley.

Again, purely guessing, but an A-10 challenge is probably a non-starter because the conference would perceive it the same way they perceive a theoretical G5 playoff - ceding the argument that the AAC is fundamentally different than those types of conferences (whether or not you buy that argument is a different discussion).
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2018 02:26 PM by Bogg.)
10-18-2018 02:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OKIcat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,671
Joined: Sep 2015
Reputation: 191
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #70
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 02:25 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 12:56 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 02:58 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-17-2018 09:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'd like to see the AAC sign into a challenge with the MWC or the A10. As a Cincinnati fan, I would rather play P5 schools; but I must admit a challenge with these conferences will help boost the RPI of schools like USF and ECU that continue to negatively impact the stronger basketball schools in the conference.

How does that help the AAC if ECU gets beat by Fresno or Fordham? It won't even boost their Strength of Schedule.

I'd rather UC just sign one-off deals with schools like Dayton, SLU, and New Mexico, sort of like we're doing this year with UNLV.

Not sure if you're actually interested, but here goes:

RPI is simply calculated as follows: 0.25x(your winning percentage) + 0.50x(your opponent's winning percentage) + 0.25x(your opponent's opponent's winning percentage).

So, ECU playing Fresno, who went 21-11 last year for a .656 winning percentage, is better for Cincinnati's RPI than their loss to Central Connecticut State, who went 14-18 for a .438 winning percentage. Of course, ECU winning all of their non-conference games would contribute even more to Cincinnati's RPI overall, which is why when people get riled up about poor teams playing cupcakes it makes me roll my eyes...

As for what it would look like if the AAC had actually set up a MWC challenge, I suspect it would have looked like:

Cincinnati vs. Nevada
Wichita State vs. San Diego State
Houston vs. Boise State
SMU vs. Fresno State
Temple vs. UNLV
UCF vs. New Mexico
Tulsa vs. Wyoming
UConn vs. Utah State
Memphis vs. Colorado State
Tulane vs. Air Force
ECU vs. San Jose State
USF vs. nobody

I suspect the AAC would have been favored in most if not all of those games...

USFFan

I suspect the AAC would prefer to have no challenges than arrange a challenge with a non-P5 conference (excepting perhaps the Big East, but the conference generally prefers to act like they don't exist) just because it would undercut their "Power 6" narrative. The AAC's whole schtick is that there are 6 major "all-sports"-playing conferences, and that they're a member of that group, not a part of the G5 or the four or five mid-major basketball conferences (loosely, the A10, MW, MVC, WCC [as long as Gonzaga's there], and then if you include the AAC. Certain AAC fans will also make the argument that the Big East is a mid-major that's had unusual luck). The P5 all have arrangements/challenges with each other (plus the Big East) and none of the mid-majors, while the A-10 and Mountain West have a challenge and the Mountain West recently wrapped up one with the Missouri Valley.

Again, purely guessing, but an A-10 challenge is probably a non-starter because the conference would perceive it the same way they perceive a theoretical G5 playoff - ceding the argument that the AAC is fundamentally different than those types of conferences (whether or not you buy that argument is a different discussion).

Bolded, I think this is the case for the AAC too; go big or schedule the P5 ala carte.

UCONN, Cincy and Wichita State seem to get any number of P5 opponents for national TV each year and Memphis appears poised to return to that high profile too. The other top tier basketball programs are certainly in the mix in that regard based upon competitive quality and TV market size.

AAC TV contract negotiations get underway in the new year and the conference will have a strong bargaining position based upon robust basketball and football viewership on ESPN since the American's inception. Don't be surprised if the new cable deal gets done and includes a similar "challenge" arrangement for the American with the Pac 12 or another P5, driven by the conference affiliations of whichever cable network wins the bidding war for the American.
10-18-2018 03:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 50,184
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 2425
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: New Orleans
Post: #71
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 03:49 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Don't be surprised if the new cable deal gets done and includes a similar "challenge" arrangement for the American with the Pac 12 or another P5, driven by the conference affiliations of whichever cable network wins the bidding war for the American.

So far, the Big East has been able to make these Challenge arrangements with multiple P5 while the AAC has not been able to do so.

We'll see what happens with the new TV deal. I really have no idea what is going to happen and won't be surprised by anything, from a repeat of the current peanut deal to a huge increase.

My best estimate is still around $7m per school, though, a nice raise.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2018 05:13 PM by quo vadis.)
10-18-2018 05:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
billybobby777 Offline
The REAL BillyBobby
*

Posts: 11,898
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 502
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #72
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 03:49 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 02:25 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 12:56 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 02:58 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-17-2018 09:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'd like to see the AAC sign into a challenge with the MWC or the A10. As a Cincinnati fan, I would rather play P5 schools; but I must admit a challenge with these conferences will help boost the RPI of schools like USF and ECU that continue to negatively impact the stronger basketball schools in the conference.

How does that help the AAC if ECU gets beat by Fresno or Fordham? It won't even boost their Strength of Schedule.

I'd rather UC just sign one-off deals with schools like Dayton, SLU, and New Mexico, sort of like we're doing this year with UNLV.

Not sure if you're actually interested, but here goes:

RPI is simply calculated as follows: 0.25x(your winning percentage) + 0.50x(your opponent's winning percentage) + 0.25x(your opponent's opponent's winning percentage).

So, ECU playing Fresno, who went 21-11 last year for a .656 winning percentage, is better for Cincinnati's RPI than their loss to Central Connecticut State, who went 14-18 for a .438 winning percentage. Of course, ECU winning all of their non-conference games would contribute even more to Cincinnati's RPI overall, which is why when people get riled up about poor teams playing cupcakes it makes me roll my eyes...

As for what it would look like if the AAC had actually set up a MWC challenge, I suspect it would have looked like:

Cincinnati vs. Nevada
Wichita State vs. San Diego State
Houston vs. Boise State
SMU vs. Fresno State
Temple vs. UNLV
UCF vs. New Mexico
Tulsa vs. Wyoming
UConn vs. Utah State
Memphis vs. Colorado State
Tulane vs. Air Force
ECU vs. San Jose State
USF vs. nobody

I suspect the AAC would have been favored in most if not all of those games...

USFFan

I suspect the AAC would prefer to have no challenges than arrange a challenge with a non-P5 conference (excepting perhaps the Big East, but the conference generally prefers to act like they don't exist) just because it would undercut their "Power 6" narrative. The AAC's whole schtick is that there are 6 major "all-sports"-playing conferences, and that they're a member of that group, not a part of the G5 or the four or five mid-major basketball conferences (loosely, the A10, MW, MVC, WCC [as long as Gonzaga's there], and then if you include the AAC. Certain AAC fans will also make the argument that the Big East is a mid-major that's had unusual luck). The P5 all have arrangements/challenges with each other (plus the Big East) and none of the mid-majors, while the A-10 and Mountain West have a challenge and the Mountain West recently wrapped up one with the Missouri Valley.

Again, purely guessing, but an A-10 challenge is probably a non-starter because the conference would perceive it the same way they perceive a theoretical G5 playoff - ceding the argument that the AAC is fundamentally different than those types of conferences (whether or not you buy that argument is a different discussion).

Bolded, I think this is the case for the AAC too; go big or schedule the P5 ala carte.

UCONN, Cincy and Wichita State seem to get any number of P5 opponents for national TV each year and Memphis appears poised to return to that high profile too. The other top tier basketball programs are certainly in the mix in that regard based upon competitive quality and TV market size.

AAC TV contract negotiations get underway in the new year and the conference will have a strong bargaining position based upon robust basketball and football viewership on ESPN since the American's inception. Don't be surprised if the new cable deal gets done and includes a similar "challenge" arrangement for the American with the Pac 12 or another P5, driven by the conference affiliations of whichever cable network wins the bidding war for the American.

You are predicting an AAC Vs PAC basketball challenge? Hahahaha... though the PAC has an unofficial MWC challenge already (due to geography and ancient rivals from the old WAC) , they’ll never do an AAC challenge.
10-18-2018 07:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RutgersGuy Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,127
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 152
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #73
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 03:49 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 02:25 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 12:56 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 02:58 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-17-2018 09:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'd like to see the AAC sign into a challenge with the MWC or the A10. As a Cincinnati fan, I would rather play P5 schools; but I must admit a challenge with these conferences will help boost the RPI of schools like USF and ECU that continue to negatively impact the stronger basketball schools in the conference.

How does that help the AAC if ECU gets beat by Fresno or Fordham? It won't even boost their Strength of Schedule.

I'd rather UC just sign one-off deals with schools like Dayton, SLU, and New Mexico, sort of like we're doing this year with UNLV.

Not sure if you're actually interested, but here goes:

RPI is simply calculated as follows: 0.25x(your winning percentage) + 0.50x(your opponent's winning percentage) + 0.25x(your opponent's opponent's winning percentage).

So, ECU playing Fresno, who went 21-11 last year for a .656 winning percentage, is better for Cincinnati's RPI than their loss to Central Connecticut State, who went 14-18 for a .438 winning percentage. Of course, ECU winning all of their non-conference games would contribute even more to Cincinnati's RPI overall, which is why when people get riled up about poor teams playing cupcakes it makes me roll my eyes...

As for what it would look like if the AAC had actually set up a MWC challenge, I suspect it would have looked like:

Cincinnati vs. Nevada
Wichita State vs. San Diego State
Houston vs. Boise State
SMU vs. Fresno State
Temple vs. UNLV
UCF vs. New Mexico
Tulsa vs. Wyoming
UConn vs. Utah State
Memphis vs. Colorado State
Tulane vs. Air Force
ECU vs. San Jose State
USF vs. nobody

I suspect the AAC would have been favored in most if not all of those games...

USFFan

I suspect the AAC would prefer to have no challenges than arrange a challenge with a non-P5 conference (excepting perhaps the Big East, but the conference generally prefers to act like they don't exist) just because it would undercut their "Power 6" narrative. The AAC's whole schtick is that there are 6 major "all-sports"-playing conferences, and that they're a member of that group, not a part of the G5 or the four or five mid-major basketball conferences (loosely, the A10, MW, MVC, WCC [as long as Gonzaga's there], and then if you include the AAC. Certain AAC fans will also make the argument that the Big East is a mid-major that's had unusual luck). The P5 all have arrangements/challenges with each other (plus the Big East) and none of the mid-majors, while the A-10 and Mountain West have a challenge and the Mountain West recently wrapped up one with the Missouri Valley.

Again, purely guessing, but an A-10 challenge is probably a non-starter because the conference would perceive it the same way they perceive a theoretical G5 playoff - ceding the argument that the AAC is fundamentally different than those types of conferences (whether or not you buy that argument is a different discussion).

Bolded, I think this is the case for the AAC too; go big or schedule the P5 ala carte.

UCONN, Cincy and Wichita State seem to get any number of P5 opponents for national TV each year and Memphis appears poised to return to that high profile too. The other top tier basketball programs are certainly in the mix in that regard based upon competitive quality and TV market size.

AAC TV contract negotiations get underway in the new year and the conference will have a strong bargaining position based upon robust basketball and football viewership on ESPN since the American's inception. Don't be surprised if the new cable deal gets done and includes a similar "challenge" arrangement for the American with the Pac 12 or another P5, driven by the conference affiliations of whichever cable network wins the bidding war for the American.

I doubt any challenge is included in your next TV deal. Thats not how these are put together.

If you get the Pac-12 expect it to be the Pac-12 minus UCLA, Arizona, Oregon and Colorado. If the top of the Pac didn't want to play Villanova, Georgetown and Butler I doubt they want to play Wichita, Cincy and Temple.
10-18-2018 09:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UTEPDallas Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,015
Joined: Oct 2004
Reputation: 336
I Root For: UTEP/Penn State
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #74
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
Why would the Pac-12 do a challenge with the American?

The last thing the P6 (the P5 + Big East) want is to be seen as less than in the national stage. Perception is everything and the Pac-12 will not embarrass themselves in signing with the AAC and having its legitimacy at the big table being questioned.
10-18-2018 09:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 50,184
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 2425
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: New Orleans
Post: #75
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-18-2018 09:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Why would the Pac-12 do a challenge with the American?

The last thing the P6 (the P5 + Big East) want is to be seen as less than in the national stage. Perception is everything and the Pac-12 will not embarrass themselves in signing with the AAC and having its legitimacy at the big table being questioned.

Yes, it's a good rule of thumb in college athletics, and hell life generally, that in hierarchical relations "if you want to affiliate with them, chances are they don't want to affiliate with you". 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 07:19 AM by quo vadis.)
10-19-2018 07:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OKIcat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,671
Joined: Sep 2015
Reputation: 191
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #76
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-19-2018 07:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 09:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Why would the Pac-12 do a challenge with the American?

The last thing the P6 (the P5 + Big East) want is to be seen as less than in the national stage. Perception is everything and the Pac-12 will not embarrass themselves in signing with the AAC and having its legitimacy at the big table being questioned.

Yes, it's a good rule of thumb in college athletics, and hell life generally, that in hierarchical relations "if you want to affiliate with them, chances are they don't want to affiliate with you". 07-coffee3

The Pac 12 is on an island west of the Rockies, isolated from the rest of the P5. National TV audiences are sub par compared with its peer group. It's little wonder with their conference games often starting at 11 p.m. in the recruit and media rich markets east of the Rockies. The only reason the Pac 12 would enter a "challenge" is if they perceive it to be beneficial. The AAC can deliver prime time visibility on ESPN in major TV markets in the northeast, midwest and south against its top tier schools providing needed exposure.

Looking back to the split of the old Big East, the new Big East took the cash and gave up the national viewership the old Big East once enjoyed with ESPN (Of course that's partly due to the fact that the powers of the old Big East all left, save Villanova). The AAC has retained a larger audience share by remaining on ESPN, with a short term reduction in cash.

So to the point about TV being involved in partnering to create the "challenges", the Fox relationships with the Big 12 and B10 suggest it's in their company's best interest to create higher profile games for their own TV partners, rather than "made for TV" matchups that generate higher revenue games which must be split alternate years with another provider such as the market leading ESPN networks, the AAC's TV partner.

The AAC will substantially improve its financial standing in the next TV contract, with ESPN or a new provider. Conversely, the new Big East members have little reason to be optimistic about what FS1 might offer next based upon disappointing audience size to date.

Bottom line: could an AAC challenge with the Pac 12 be mutually beneficial and a viable possibility? I say yes, especially if ESPN wants it to happen. Such scheduling decisions will likely be points of leverage in the upcoming AAC TV negotiations. Stay tuned...and follow the dollars.
10-19-2018 08:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 50,184
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 2425
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: New Orleans
Post: #77
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-19-2018 08:47 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-19-2018 07:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 09:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Why would the Pac-12 do a challenge with the American?

The last thing the P6 (the P5 + Big East) want is to be seen as less than in the national stage. Perception is everything and the Pac-12 will not embarrass themselves in signing with the AAC and having its legitimacy at the big table being questioned.

Yes, it's a good rule of thumb in college athletics, and hell life generally, that in hierarchical relations "if you want to affiliate with them, chances are they don't want to affiliate with you". 07-coffee3

The Pac 12 is on an island west of the Rockies, isolated from the rest of the P5. National TV audiences are sub par compared with its peer group. It's little wonder with their conference games often starting at 11 p.m. in the recruit and media rich markets east of the Rockies. The only reason the Pac 12 would enter a "challenge" is if they perceive it to be beneficial. The AAC can deliver prime time visibility on ESPN in major TV markets in the northeast, midwest and south against its top tier schools providing needed exposure.

Looking back to the split of the old Big East, the new Big East took the cash and gave up the national viewership the old Big East once enjoyed with ESPN (Of course that's partly due to the fact that the powers of the old Big East all left, save Villanova). The AAC has retained a larger audience share by remaining on ESPN, with a short term reduction in cash.

So to the point about TV being involved in partnering to create the "challenges", the Fox relationships with the Big 12 and B10 suggest it's in their company's best interest to create higher profile games for their own TV partners, rather than "made for TV" matchups that generate higher revenue games which must be split alternate years with another provider such as the market leading ESPN networks, the AAC's TV partner.

The AAC will substantially improve its financial standing in the next TV contract, with ESPN or a new provider. Conversely, the new Big East members have little reason to be optimistic about what FS1 might offer next based upon disappointing audience size to date.

Bottom line: could an AAC challenge with the Pac 12 be mutually beneficial and a viable possibility? I say yes, especially if ESPN wants it to happen. Such scheduling decisions will likely be points of leverage in the upcoming AAC TV negotiations. Stay tuned...and follow the dollars.

None of us knows what will happen in the upcoming AAC negotiations. I'm hopeful that we will get considerably more money, but it wouldn't surprise me if we don't either. We can talk about ratings all day long but (a) ESPN has a lot more leverage than does the AAC, and (b) ESPN could very well believe that AAC ratings are a function of good exposure on the ESPN family rather than inherently reflecting AAC value. Or, you may be right and the AAC might be the subject of a bidding war between multiple networks and cash in nicely. We'll see. Aresco definitely expects us to end up in the "power" range of money, and I hope he is correct. As for an AAC - PAC challenge, I doubt it will happen, as the other poster said, the PAC probably has no interest in formally affiliating with a mid-major league, it doesn't have the right look among their peers. If PAC teams want more exposure in the east, they can always sign deals on an a la carte basis with individual schools.

As for the Big East, there's no question that it has out-performed the AAC badly the past 5 years. The FOX deal is good for those schools, none of which have bloated money-losing football programs to support like the AAC schools do, and the Big East has managed to earn the respect of the P5 conferences and the tournament committee such that they are treated and regarded as an actual Power league in hoops the way Aresco and the AAC dreams it was in football and hoops. Val Ackerman, probably the most effective commissioner around, doesn't make noise in the media but quietely goes about signing nice deals and has managed the Big East to a hoops status where we get invited to all the right parties, while Aresco flails around banging pots and pans in the media like the nerd at the back of the class clamoring for attention from the cool kids who snicker at him, while pocketing contract money that is about equal to a school-share of the last TV deal he signed.

Again, nobody knows if this will persist into the future or not, but as of now, the Big East has to earn an "A" or "A+" overall rating in terms of how it has performed as a league since the split, it has exceeded everyone's expectations by miles.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 09:36 AM by quo vadis.)
10-19-2018 09:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,685
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #78
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-19-2018 08:47 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-19-2018 07:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 09:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Why would the Pac-12 do a challenge with the American?

The last thing the P6 (the P5 + Big East) want is to be seen as less than in the national stage. Perception is everything and the Pac-12 will not embarrass themselves in signing with the AAC and having its legitimacy at the big table being questioned.

Yes, it's a good rule of thumb in college athletics, and hell life generally, that in hierarchical relations "if you want to affiliate with them, chances are they don't want to affiliate with you". 07-coffee3

The Pac 12 is on an island west of the Rockies, isolated from the rest of the P5. National TV audiences are sub par compared with its peer group. It's little wonder with their conference games often starting at 11 p.m. in the recruit and media rich markets east of the Rockies. The only reason the Pac 12 would enter a "challenge" is if they perceive it to be beneficial. The AAC can deliver prime time visibility on ESPN in major TV markets in the northeast, midwest and south against its top tier schools providing needed exposure.

Looking back to the split of the old Big East, the new Big East took the cash and gave up the national viewership the old Big East once enjoyed with ESPN (Of course that's partly due to the fact that the powers of the old Big East all left, save Villanova). The AAC has retained a larger audience share by remaining on ESPN, with a short term reduction in cash.

So to the point about TV being involved in partnering to create the "challenges", the Fox relationships with the Big 12 and B10 suggest it's in their company's best interest to create higher profile games for their own TV partners, rather than "made for TV" matchups that generate higher revenue games which must be split alternate years with another provider such as the market leading ESPN networks, the AAC's TV partner.

The AAC will substantially improve its financial standing in the next TV contract, with ESPN or a new provider. Conversely, the new Big East members have little reason to be optimistic about what FS1 might offer next based upon disappointing audience size to date.

Bottom line: could an AAC challenge with the Pac 12 be mutually beneficial and a viable possibility? I say yes, especially if ESPN wants it to happen. Such scheduling decisions will likely be points of leverage in the upcoming AAC TV negotiations. Stay tuned...and follow the dollars.

This view always makes me chuckle because it is such a narrow-minded viewpoint in the big picture of things.

Firstly, the AAC did not choose to take a reduction in revenue from ESPN. They were paid what their market dictated. Secondly, I would argue that it was not a short-term reduction either. For seven years, with a few still to go, the AAC was paid slightly better than the rest of the G5 conferences, and absolute peanuts compared to P5 conferences. Some like to proclaim about the long-term threats of an inevitable separation between the P5 and the G5, but the split already occurred in 2013. With the P5 earning 15-20x what the G5 have been making for this contract cycle, the race has already been determined. Even with a bump in pay for the American, it is still not enough to keep pace with the P5. Having said that, the top portion of the American is absolutely capable (and quite frankly deserving) of being included in this grouping (i.e. UCF, USF, Houston, Cincinnati, Memphis); however, for the bottom portion of the conference, there are strong arguments that they should absolutely not be included.

With your points on the Big East, once again, the conference was paid what its market value dictated. The Big East, IMO, will be a strong asset for any network moving forward because of the strong markets it holds, the elite level of success the conference has had (and will continue to have), and its marketable brand which has held strong for decades. The league will have the most ever games on big Fox this year, and the league's reputation with other power conferences remains strong. Finally, if you look at recruiting, the Big East is still recruiting at a high-level in comparison to the other power conferences. Recruits value basketball-first schools in big cities. CBS just recently posted its top-100 players in the NCAA - the Big East had three players in the top-20; the American had three players total in the top-100, and their first player was #62.

The fact ESPN, now, speaks so highly of the Big East, and has even had multiple on-air personalities campaign for UConn to return to the Big East (and unintentionally, or intentionally, effect its own property in the American), speaks that there is still a strong market for its rights from competitors. The Big East Tournament is still one of the best college basketball tournaments in the country, and the attendance proves that. Now, if the attendance at Big East games/tournament was poor, then that would be a major red flag. However, no matter what the ratings, no one wants to see an empty arena/stadium for a contest. Unfortunately, several AAC programs struggle mightily with attendance in football and/or basketball. If fans do not show up in person for games, what market is there for people to intentionally tune in on networks? I think that is the biggest question moving forward.

Unfortunately, the American acquired the Big East Football's reputation and perception as "the best of the rest" conference from the power conferences. Despite the on-field successes, the league will never truly be considered a peer by the P5 or by the networks. When a program out-performs its value in the American (like UCF is currently doing now), then the networks will incentivize the P5 to poach the AAC to drive down its value (like it repeatedly did to the old Big East). Like I said, programs like UCF, USF, Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis are in solid position to get taken; however, for the other programs, I have difficulty seeing an optimal way out.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 09:44 AM by GoldenWarrior11.)
10-19-2018 09:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OKIcat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,671
Joined: Sep 2015
Reputation: 191
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #79
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
No denying the new Big East is a very solid basketball conference. But Fox badly needed content to fill that new channel, FS1, and overestimated audience size and market value based upon the old brand. You can't replace national championship programs Syracuse, Louisville, and UCONN with small private schools Creighton, Xavier and Butler, and not fundamentally change the perception of the conference. Even with the remaining NYC metro schools and the future national champion in the house, only three of the five sessions of the conference tournament at MSG sold out this year, according to a published report. That wasn't the case with the old BE Tournament.

Some commentators last year began referring to the P7 or 7 major conferences in college basketball, to include the new Big East and the AAC. That's a better representation than the P5/G5 classification based purely on football. I think the top tier of the two conferences will be similar going forward, especially with UCONN and Memphis having abundant resources and reloading with new coaches. I will concede the bottom tier of the AAC are schools that were grafted on hastily for football and compete more at DePaul's level. Those schools long term market value is questionable and I don't discount the possibility of ESPN working with the AAC to top grade--bringing a couple of western universities into the fold to further separate the AAC from the other G5 conferences.

Until a new TV deal happens though, I will concede we're all really just speculating about the future state of these two conferences.
10-19-2018 02:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 50,184
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 2425
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: New Orleans
Post: #80
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge
(10-19-2018 02:04 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  No denying the new Big East is a very solid basketball conference. But Fox badly needed content to fill that new channel, FS1, and overestimated audience size and market value based upon the old brand.

Some commentators last year began referring to the P7 or 7 major conferences in college basketball, to include the new Big East and the AAC. That's a better representation than the P5/G5 classification based purely on football.

I doubt FOX overestimated the market appeal of the new Big East. Of course they knew that the conference would not be the same after losing Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, and Cincy, you didn't have to be in the media business to know that. The old Big East was arguably the strongest on-court league ever. No, FOX has given every indication that it is happy with the new Big East and is getting exactly what it hoped to get - the exclusive rights to a top-level hoops league.

BTW, to me it seems clear that in hoops, there actually is a "P6", but it includes the Big East, not the AAC.

Maybe if mercenary Wichita State lives up to its billing that will become a reality, but as of now, the AAC is at best a tweener league between the true mid-majors and the P6.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 03:21 PM by quo vadis.)
10-19-2018 02:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.