(08-01-2018 08:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:02 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 06:32 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  What? Detroit and Indianapolis guarantee indoor football.

Terrible idea, IMO. The only benefit of having a bowl game in a cold weather place is watching some cold-weather football on TV, it might snow or something, players huddling for warmth on the sidelines, etc. which makes it interesting viewing. We've seen that in the Pinstripe Bowl.

Put a Detroit or Indianapolis game in a dome and you take that away. And you have no benefits to the athletes or fans in terms of traveling to a desirable location. It's a loser for everyone.

You think fans DESIRE to sit in sub-zero weather to watch a meaningless bowl game? I don't! It might be fun to watch from the comfort of your own home, but as someone who has sat in Lane Stadium in -40F I can tell you -- that is NOT desirable! At some point bowls need to sell tickets, and I think indoor stadiums are a MUCH easier sell... JMO though.

I wonder about that. E.g. in St Pete Florida the St Pete dome is famous for being empty during that bowl game. I've seen empty outdoor stadiums and empty indoor ones.

The Lions play to a lot of empty seats in their dome, the Bears and Packers sell out in their frigid old outdoor stadiums. Football fans don't mind huddling up to watch a game.

IMO, there just is no upside to a dome game up north. The appeal of the game is the outdoor elements, for fans in attendance and watching on TV.

The date of the game hasn't helped in most cases. Also, some of the teams involved do not have much of a fan base.

(08-01-2018 03:57 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:02 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 06:32 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  What? Detroit and Indianapolis guarantee indoor football.

Terrible idea, IMO. The only benefit of having a bowl game in a cold weather place is watching some cold-weather football on TV, it might snow or something, players huddling for warmth on the sidelines, etc. which makes it interesting viewing. We've seen that in the Pinstripe Bowl.

Put a Detroit or Indianapolis game in a dome and you take that away. And you have no benefits to the athletes or fans in terms of traveling to a desirable location. It's a loser for everyone.

You think fans DESIRE to sit in sub-zero weather to watch a meaningless bowl game? I don't! It might be fun to watch from the comfort of your own home, but as someone who has sat in Lane Stadium in -40F I can tell you -- that is NOT desirable! At some point bowls need to sell tickets, and I think indoor stadiums are a MUCH easier sell... JMO though.

I somehow doubt you sat through -40 temperatures, though your overall point makes sense.

It was -40F with wind chill. Blacksburg is no joke when Winter comes early!

I still somehow doubt that. Even for you people up north that are used to that type of weather. Maybe you'd sit for a few minutes before the health effects start to take effect or even just the uncomfortability.

(08-02-2018 02:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still somehow doubt that. Even for you people up north that are used to that type of weather. Maybe you'd sit for a few minutes before the health effects start to take effect or even just the uncomfortability.

I think one reason cold-weather games are valued in college football is because even up north, they are rare: For most teams, the season ends in late November, before the real snowy months start. College football is a fall sport, not a winter sport. Heck more games are played during the summer than the winter. It's not like the NFL, which plays throughout December and January.

Also, while the NFL is much more geographically balanced, college football skews to the south - the SEC, Big 12, and ACC are largely southern conferences, and the PAC has mild coastal weather as well. Only the B1G is a northern conference. And in the G5 the same holds true - only the MAC is a real northern conference. For southern schools, college football is more of a summer sport than anything, as a Houston fan you know that it can be 80+ at kickoff all the way through October, most of the regular season.

Bowl season is really the only time of the college football year where wintry conditions - harsh cold, ice, snow - are a strong possibility, and then because of that, the games are played mostly in the deep south.

So there is a novelty factor to playing up north during bowl season. I know one reason I've enjoyed going to the Military Bowl in Maryland the last few years is the cold weather.

(08-02-2018 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think one reason cold-weather games are valued in college football is because even up north, they are rare:

That's a fair point. It may be more common in the MAC than anywhere else, though. The Big Ten plays most November games during the day. Most November #MACtion is at night, when the air is colder.

The MAC used to hold its championship game outdoors, but I doubt we ever will again. By the time December rolls around, it is a real treat to watch a football game indoors.

(08-02-2018 08:40 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think one reason cold-weather games are valued in college football is because even up north, they are rare:

That's a fair point. It may be more common in the MAC than anywhere else, though. The Big Ten plays most November games during the day. Most November #MACtion is at night, when the air is colder.

The MAC used to hold its championship game outdoors, but I doubt we ever will again. By the time December rolls around, it is a real treat to watch a football game indoors.

... and to play in the Bahamas Bowl.

Quo...you touched on a great point. Snow games and frigid icebox games deliver eyeballs and great visuals for TV. A few of the Pinstripe Bowl games have been epic due to that....

(08-02-2018 12:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It was -40F with wind chill. Blacksburg is no joke when Winter comes early!

(08-02-2018 02:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still somehow doubt that. Even for you people up north that are used to that type of weather. Maybe you'd sit for a few minutes before the health effects start to take effect or even just the uncomfortability.

So I did a little research and it's true - my memory was flawed. It was COLD, just not quite THAT COLD.

The date: November 21, 1981
The game: VMI @ Va Tech (on ABC)
Temperature at kickoff: 26F
Wind speed: 20 MPH
Wind Chill at kickoff: -11F
I remember the temperature dropping as the game went on, but unfortunately I was unable to find the low that day. The all-time low for a Nov. 21st in Blacksburg is 13F, set in 1984 (just 3 years later). Even at 13F and 20 MPH, the wind chill is -20F.

At any rate, it was so cold in the stands that day I thought my eyelids would freeze shut! It seems lots of Hokie fans who were there that day remember how cold it was, too [LINK]. One fan had this comment:

"I don't know the coldest game on record but the coldest I went to was VMI in Lane November 1981. Had on layers and the cold still went right thru you. To rub salt in the wound, we lost 0-6. Terrible game and weather."

I can’t even fathom VMI football was once on ABC.

Everyone is completely overestimating the appetite most B1G fans have for any bowl located above the Mason-Dixon line. That is ZERO appetite. Detroit doesn't sell out the lower bowl. Pinstripe has never sold out. Military Bowl doesn't sell out. Potato only sells out if Boise State or Idaho are in it. Jim Delany has no clue about the fans' hatred of these bowls. And I think the schools are catching on to this. Some people think Chicago is a good choice for a lower-level B1G bowl, but most don't.

(08-05-2018 11:38 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  Everyone is completely overestimating the appetite most B1G fans have for any bowl located above the Mason-Dixon line. That is ZERO appetite. Detroit doesn't sell out the lower bowl. Pinstripe has never sold out. Military Bowl doesn't sell out. Potato only sells out if Boise State or Idaho are in it. Jim Delany has no clue about the fans' hatred of these bowls. And I think the schools are catching on to this. Some people think Chicago is a good choice for a lower-level B1G bowl, but most don't.

The current Detroit game doesn't, but the Pizza Bowl used to draw huge crowds for games against Big Ten teams. Nowadays bad attendance is a given if you tell Maryland or Rutgers to go there, it's no coincidence that the best-attended Quick Lane game by far was when Minnesota played CMU instead of someone like UNC or BC.

The Potato's problem is that you can't really have a well-attended outdoor game without a P5 team involved if there's no geographic relevance. When San Diego State plays Buffalo, no one should be surprised when it draws flies. I'm surprised it's lasted this long, though I guess it's one of those games that doesn't need attendance to stay afloat.

(08-05-2018 11:38 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  Everyone is completely overestimating the appetite most B1G fans have for any bowl located above the Mason-Dixon line. That is ZERO appetite. Detroit doesn't sell out the lower bowl. Pinstripe has never sold out. Military Bowl doesn't sell out. Potato only sells out if Boise State or Idaho are in it. Jim Delany has no clue about the fans' hatred of these bowls. And I think the schools are catching on to this. Some people think Chicago is a good choice for a lower-level B1G bowl, but most don't.

I think Jim Delany knows this quite well, which is why the Wrigley bowl isn’t getting off the ground and the Pinstripe Bowl is the only northern bowl hats outdoors. Otherwise, the primary Big Ten bowls are all in Florida and California. I do believe that a Big Ten #6 or so slot would be intriguing for a Wrigley bowl, but the Cubs thinking they’d get a Citrus/Outback Bowl-level Big Ten team was delusional.

(08-05-2018 11:38 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  Everyone is completely overestimating the appetite most B1G fans have for any bowl located above the Mason-Dixon line. That is ZERO appetite. Detroit doesn't sell out the lower bowl. Pinstripe has never sold out. Military Bowl doesn't sell out. Potato only sells out if Boise State or Idaho are in it. Jim Delany has no clue about the fans' hatred of these bowls. And I think the schools are catching on to this. Some people think Chicago is a good choice for a lower-level B1G bowl, but most don't.

In fairness, the Pinstripe has decent attendance, usually around 45k.

But i don't know what % of those attendees are B1G fans traveling from the midwest as opposed to local NYC transplants.

Speaking from the standpoint of a native Iowan: I hate bowls that aren’t in the West or South. If I wanted to freeze my butt off to watch a big game in the cold, I’d simply go to the Iowa vs Minnesota or Iowa vs Wisconsin games.

(08-05-2018 11:38 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  Everyone is completely overestimating the appetite most B1G fans have for any bowl located above the Mason-Dixon line. That is ZERO appetite. Detroit doesn't sell out the lower bowl. Pinstripe has never sold out. Military Bowl doesn't sell out. Potato only sells out if Boise State or Idaho are in it. Jim Delany has no clue about the fans' hatred of these bowls. And I think the schools are catching on to this. Some people think Chicago is a good choice for a lower-level B1G bowl, but most don't.

Idaho won't be in it any more. So I guess your just down to Boise who usually goes to a better bowl than the Potato Bowl because of their winning records. It would probably take a 6 & 6 season to get them to stay home and play there now.

(08-05-2018 07:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-05-2018 11:38 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  Everyone is completely overestimating the appetite most B1G fans have for any bowl located above the Mason-Dixon line. That is ZERO appetite. Detroit doesn't sell out the lower bowl. Pinstripe has never sold out. Military Bowl doesn't sell out. Potato only sells out if Boise State or Idaho are in it. Jim Delany has no clue about the fans' hatred of these bowls. And I think the schools are catching on to this. Some people think Chicago is a good choice for a lower-level B1G bowl, but most don't.

In fairness, the Pinstripe has decent attendance, usually around 45k.

But i don't know what % of those attendees are B1G fans traveling from the midwest as opposed to local NYC transplants.

The Pinstripe Bowl like the old Garden State Bowl in Giants Stadium does well when one of the opponents is a regional team like Rutgers, Syracuse, or Penn State. Of course ND draws well there too and so would Army if they could get access to that bowl. The old Garden State Bowl sold over 50k tickets when Temple played there, however the weather for that game was extremely cold with freezing rain that that kept many from showing up game on game day to the weather and horrible driving conditions. When both opponents are not from the region then attendance drops for the game that year unless of course ND represents the Midwest. That was part of the downfall for the old Garden State Bowl. Those in charge decided to go for bigger named schools out of the region for both opponents which unfortunately helped to speed the demise of that bowl. With that being said as long as the B-10 keeps sending the their lowest regional team in the bowl pecking order to the Pinstripe Bowl, attendance will for that bowl will be decent. I have been to several collegiate football games at Yankee Stadium with my family and we have enjoyed the game day experience there even in the colder weather. But then I am from the North and attend Giants, Jets, and Eagle games in late December in the cold and sometimes the snow too.