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3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #141
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-07-2018 05:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 01:17 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  This topic makes me wonder. Are there schools in the MAC that would be open to breaking away from the current MAC? I thought I remember Toledo's naming being thrown around with Marshall when we left for C-USA in 2005.

Ohio, Toledo, Miami, Buffalo, NIU, and WMU or CMU along with Marshall, WKU, Middle Tenn, ODU, Charlotte and FAU could be a step up for all involved. Break up the divisions by North & South.

Internal politics make a MAC break away group virtually impossible. The Michigan and Ohio schools probably don't have the leverage to ditch their instate companions.

That leaves just periphery schools like NIU, Ball St, and Buffalo free.

Truth be told, there probably isn't enough to be gained by the MAC schools or the C-USA ones by creating a MAC/C-USA East all star league. It too bad; it could be a really fun league. I'd leave out Charlotte and take UAB instead--they have more history and upside.

Given the chance and the right money Toledo would leave the MAC probably with Northern and someone else.
08-07-2018 08:22 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #142
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-07-2018 02:02 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Here is the suggested conference on a map.

https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/MAC%2F...conference

The more I think about it the more I like it.

Ideas like this are nothing new. Had the MAC not been able to get a TV deal with ESPN with the midweek games something like this probably would have happened 10 years ago.

It's going to take a new system where 16 teams is required for an autobid or the G5 is ripping apart over a FBS split for a noah's arc situation to happen to necessitate a survivors conference forming.

Otherwise the TV money, national competitiveness just isn't enough to motivate a reorganization. If something could be set up that would be a 3 NCAA team basketball conference that would be attractive but I don't see any of those MAC/CUSA combo alignments doing that unless the better A10 schools like Dayton and VCU were part of it.
08-07-2018 09:27 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #143
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-07-2018 02:02 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Here is the suggested conference on a map.

https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/MAC%2F...conference

The more I think about it the more I like it.

Any “new” conference needs seven schools together for eight years to be authorized as an big dance autobid conference by the NCAA. Take seven from the MAC and five CUSA schools.

But the problem remains that that new conference would be not entitled to CFP money or even be recognized by it. Maybe if it forms just before the new CFP contract is signed. But this far out in time, it would be a money loser except for the existing CUSA.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 05:02 AM by NoDak.)
08-08-2018 01:53 AM
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andy98 Offline
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Post: #144
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 01:53 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 02:02 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Here is the suggested conference on a map.

https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/MAC%2F...conference

The more I think about it the more I like it.

Any “new” conference needs seven schools together for eight years to be authorized as an big dance autobid conference by the NCAA. Take seven from the MAC and five CUSA schools.

North Division
NIU
WMU
CMU
Toledo
Ohio
Buffalo

South Division
Miami
Marshall
Old Dominion
WKU
MTSU
Charlotte
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 04:09 AM by andy98.)
08-08-2018 03:53 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #145
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
I don’t understand why some MAC schools would split from closer MAC schools to play further MAC-level schools.
08-08-2018 06:45 AM
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andy98 Offline
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Post: #146
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 06:45 AM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t understand why some MAC schools would split from closer MAC schools to play further MAC-level schools.

First off, its hard for the MAC to be taken seriously in the FBS when 50% of it's teams are in 1 state, and 75% of it's teams are in 2 states. That is the type of thing you would expect to see in the lower divisions.
Secondly, the MAC would be a much more competitive conference if they replaced Eastern Michigan, Bowling Green, Kent, Akron, and Ball State with teams like Marshall, Old Dominion, Charlotte, Middle Tennessee, and Western Kentucky.
And third, those 5 Conference USA teams are a way better fit in the MAC region, rather than competing with a bunch of teams in the Texas bayou region.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 08:22 AM by andy98.)
08-08-2018 08:13 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #147
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 08:13 AM)andy98 Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 06:45 AM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t understand why some MAC schools would split from closer MAC schools to play further MAC-level schools.

First off, its hard for the MAC to be taken seriously in the FBS when 50% of it's teams are in 1 state, and 75% of it's teams are in 2 states. That is the type of thing you would expect to see in the lower divisions.
Secondly, the MAC would be a much more competitive conference if they replaced Eastern Michigan, Bowling Green, Kent, Akron, and Ball State with teams like Marshall, Old Dominion, Charlotte, Middle Tennessee, and Western Kentucky.
And third, those 5 Conference USA teams are a way better fit in the MAC region, rather than competing with a bunch of teams in the Texas bayou region.

And maybe we wouldn't have to play all of our biggest conference games, every year, on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.
08-08-2018 09:21 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #148
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 06:45 AM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t understand why some MAC schools would split from closer MAC schools to play further MAC-level schools.

Right when the alignment is no stronger on the field.

Now if an alignment was in place to make such a grouping as strong as the AAC without needing such a large budget that would be different.
08-08-2018 09:37 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #149
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 03:53 AM)andy98 Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 01:53 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 02:02 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Here is the suggested conference on a map.

https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/MAC%2F...conference

The more I think about it the more I like it.

Any “new” conference needs seven schools together for eight years to be authorized as an big dance autobid conference by the NCAA. Take seven from the MAC and five CUSA schools.


North Division
NIU
WMU
CMU
Toledo
Ohio
Buffalo

South Division
Miami
Marshall
Old Dominion
WKU
MTSU
Charlotte

That is a nice conference...would give the AAC and MWC a run for their money in some years. If it goes to 14...probably throw in the Florida F-U's.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 10:19 AM by TexanMark.)
08-08-2018 10:16 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #150
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
None of you seem to really understand how all this works. If a school leaves the MAC, it is because they are going to greener pastures (Marshall, UCF, Temple). To be frank, what you guys are talking about is logistically impossible. There is no chance in hell some schools in the MAC are going to split away from half the conference.

1. Politically this will never happen, so stop wasting your time.

2. What's in it for WKU and MTSU, much less a school in Florida? The money won't be there for it to make a difference.

3. I think the MAC has been taken plenty seriously. A few years ago, it was Kent State vs. Northern Illinois for an Orange Bowl bid. WMU just had an incredible season.
08-08-2018 10:23 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #151
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
esayem...this forum has been known to be home for many delusional, fun exercises...you be raining on my parade. LOL
08-08-2018 11:33 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #152
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 10:23 AM)esayem Wrote:  None of you seem to really understand how all this works. If a school leaves the MAC, it is because they are going to greener pastures (Marshall, UCF, Temple). To be frank, what you guys are talking about is logistically impossible. There is no chance in hell some schools in the MAC are going to split away from half the conference.

1. Politically this will never happen, so stop wasting your time.

2. What's in it for WKU and MTSU, much less a school in Florida? The money won't be there for it to make a difference.

3. I think the MAC has been taken plenty seriously. A few years ago, it was Kent State vs. Northern Illinois for an Orange Bowl bid. WMU just had an incredible season.

Oh it's silly season alright. If anything like this occurred it would be from a CUSA split and the Eastern teams filling in that may or may not attract one or two MAC teams. Like I said probably the southern Ohio teams.
08-08-2018 11:58 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #153
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
Yeah, yeah, I know. It is silly season and I am guilty of creating realignment scenarios myself. Although, I do believe the MAC is in an enviable position amongst the G5 because they've only lost obvious outliers (for one reason or another) during expansion. It is a tight-knit and solid all-around group of schools, much like college athletics should be. Hell, you could drive to any away game you wanted!

I think the MAC > C-USA and Sun Belt.
08-08-2018 03:07 PM
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Post: #154
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 03:07 PM)esayem Wrote:  I do believe the MAC is in an enviable position amongst the G5 because they've only lost obvious outliers (for one reason or another) during expansion. It is a tight-knit and solid all-around group of schools, much like college athletics should be. Hell, you could drive to any away game you wanted!

It's a throwback conference, a bit like the old Southwest Conference used to be. This is part of the charm.
08-08-2018 03:16 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #155
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
The G5 system we have in place right now with a western conference (MWC), Midwest (MAC), quasi power (AAC), basketball oriented (CUSA), football oriented (SBC) is a decent system.

I don't know if reformatting into 3 or 4 conferences really serves the interests of those member schools.

Taking in more basketball schools like the AAC did with Wichita probably does though.
08-08-2018 03:48 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #156
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 03:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The G5 system we have in place right now with a western conference (MWC), Midwest (MAC), quasi power (AAC), basketball oriented (CUSA), football oriented (SBC) is a decent system.

I don't know if reformatting into 3 or 4 conferences really serves the interests of those member schools.

Taking in more basketball schools like the AAC did with Wichita probably does though.

We're a basketball oriented conference?!?!

I wish you'd tell that to 5-6 schools in our conference.
08-08-2018 03:50 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #157
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
Just for fun:
New Confederate Conference:
Dixie Division
...................Antebellum Division

Western Kentucky............South Alabama

Middle Tennessee............Troy

Marshall.............................FAU

Old Dominion....................Georgia Southern

Liberty................................FIU

Appalachian State.............Georgia State

Charlotte...........................Coastal Carolina

9 conference games for football.
Everyone is across from their permanent cross over. Two games vs opposite division rotate.
For basketball/Olympics keep your permanent cross over, everyone in your division home and home, permanent cross home and home, opposing division once, 20 games.





New C-USA:
West Division
..............East Division

New Mexico State.......Arkansas State

UTEP..............................Lousiana Tech

North Texas...................Lousiana-Monroe

UTSA......…......................Louisiana (Lafyette)

Texas State....................Southern Miss

Rice.................................UAB

UT-Arlington*..................UALR*

8 conference games. 3 cross division games rotate.
Eastern Teams get in Texas regularly.
Basketball/Olympic sports only:
Division for scheduling only in non-football sports, one set of standings. For basketball you play your division home and away and then play the opposing division once except for a permanent home/home cross for 20 games.

Permanent Cross Overs:
NMST vs La Tech
UTEP vs Lousiana Monroe
North Texas vs Arkansas St.
UT-Arlington vs UALR
Texas State vs Louisiana
UTSA vs Southern Miss
Rice vs UAB


Map:
https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/Confed...dium=email
08-08-2018 08:14 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #158
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 08:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  Map:
https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/Confed...dium=email

Charlotte is off on the map.
08-08-2018 09:05 PM
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The Colonel Offline
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Post: #159
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 11:33 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  This forum has been known to be home for many delusional, fun exercises...

…and, on that note, I’ll throw this wild idea out there:

I’ve always been intrigued by the idea of college football relegation. I don’t see it ever happening among the P5, but maybe it could be considered (for football only) by the MAC, C-USA, and the SB, taking the following assumptions into account:

- The American is perceived (rightly, IMO) as the strongest (top-to-bottom) of the G5 conferences.
- The MW is perceived (very debatable, IMO) as stronger (top-to-bottom) than the MAC, C-USA, and SB.
- There are long-term geographic concerns about the makeup of both C-USA and the SB.
- Many MAC fans (and, likely, many C-USA and SB fans) have concerns about some underperforming members within the conference.

How would a system of relegation among the three conferences work? It might look something like this:

- The current 36 schools in the MAC, C-USA, and SB would be divided into four nine-team divisions. Initially determining the four divisions would be based on total number of conference wins (not including conference championship games) over the past four seasons. It would look something like this:

Gold Division (3 MAC; 3 C-USA; 3 SB)
App St. (27), Toledo (26), Ark St. (26), NIU (24), WMU (24), La Tech (23), WKU (23), MTSU (20), Ga So (20)

Silver Division (3 MAC; 4 C-USA; 2 SB)
CMU (20), Ohio (20), Marshall (19), Louisiana (19), Troy (19), So Miss (18), ODU (17), BG (17), FAU (15)

Bronze Division (3 MAC; 4 C-USA; 2 SB)
Akron (17), FIU (15), UTSA (14), Miami (14), N. Texas (13), S. Ala (13), Ga St (12), Rice (11), Buffalo (11)

Copper Division (3 MAC; 3 C-USA; 3 SB)
La. Monroe (11), UTEP (10), EMU (8), Texas St (8), Ball St (7), Kent St (6), Charlotte (4), UAB (4), Coastal Car (2)

I settled on using the past four seasons because that’s when C-USA began in its current form (and when the most recent college football playoff agreement began). There’s room for debate about who belongs where, but that’s not really the point. The point is finding a generally fair way to initially determine the divisions, and this would accomplish that.

- Once the four divisions are determined, the divisions would be set for the next two years. Each school would play the other eight division schools (once at home and once on the road) over the next two seasons (with four home games and four away games each season).

- Divisions would be realigned every two years, with the top three schools in each division moving up and the bottom three schools in each division moving down. (You could debate lessening this to two - or even just one - school moving each way, but IMO there needs to be incentive and opportunity for moving up, especially for the schools in the lower divisions.)

Attempting to address some issues/concerns:

- One potential drawback of relegation would be the fear of losing a potential rival, so in addition to the eight-game divisional schedule, every school would be guaranteed one game each season (which would not count in divisional standings) against either a rival not in the same division (for example, WMU-CMU would continue to play every year) or, if the rival is in the same division, against the closest available geographic school (for example, NIU-Ball St would play each other for two years, and this could be revisited after the next round of relegation). This would require a bit of flexibility, but wouldn’t be too hard to iron out.

- Schools would be free to determine the other three games of their non-division schedule as they see fit. If your school wants the NIU 2018 Group of Death model, go for it. If your school prefers a DavidSt Special of Lindenwood, Central Oklahoma, and Wayne State, well, good for you. P5, the American, the MW…or perhaps your school just wants to continue playing other traditional non-divisional opponents (maybe, say, BG wants to continue playing Akron and/or Kent State). All of that would be fine.

- Would there be division championship games? The top two teams in each division could face each other in a rematch, although I’m not sure that would be possible with only nine teams in a division (or if it would even be necessary). I prefer the idea of the Gold Division champion playing the Silver Division champion. This would offer another opportunity for a quality win for the Gold Division champion and one of the best opportunities for a quality win for the Silver Division champion (think, for example, 2018 FAU).

- 36 schools; nine of each in four divisions…it almost works out too evenly. What would happen if a school left for another conference? The best option would be picking up an independent (for example, NMSU or UMass) or adding a high-quality FCS school looking for a new challenge (for example, NDSU or James Madison). (I’d actually be all for another tier of high-end FCS schools coming along, provided they agree to start at the bottom and work their way up.)

It’s not a perfect idea, of course, and it doesn’t solve all issues. For example, geographic concerns would likely grow and not improve, especially for the MAC schools, and figuring out reconfigured bowl scenarios would be awfully messy.

That said, IMO, as long as the current system remains in place, the MAC, C-USA and SB will always be at a clear disadvantage in trying to get a team in the NY6 bowl. Whoever emerges from the Gold Division would IMO have a much stronger resume than a MW champion and would be close to, right on par with, or perhaps even stronger when compared to an AAC champion in many years. The Silver Division champion would also probably be pretty strong in most years. Schools in the lower divisions (such as EMU or Kent State) would have a better chance to pick up more wins, grow interest in their programs, and potentially move up over the years.
08-08-2018 09:38 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #160
RE: 3rd Time the Charm for Marshall and the MAC?
(08-08-2018 03:50 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 03:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The G5 system we have in place right now with a western conference (MWC), Midwest (MAC), quasi power (AAC), basketball oriented (CUSA), football oriented (SBC) is a decent system.

I don't know if reformatting into 3 or 4 conferences really serves the interests of those member schools.

Taking in more basketball schools like the AAC did with Wichita probably does though.

We're a basketball oriented conference?!?!

I wish you'd tell that to 5-6 schools in our conference.

WKU
ODU
UNCC
UAB
UTEP

That is the face of the conference. I didn't include MTSU which is fast becoming a quality basketball school.

Southern Miss is the only football first school left in CUSA. Marshall goes both ways.
08-08-2018 10:02 PM
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