(08-01-2018 05:57 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 03:06 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 02:33 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 02:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Sounds to me like this is all coming out in anticipation of a lawsuit against Ohio State and Urban Meyer & his wife. I read another article which included a quote from Smith's ex which states "the coach and his wife had a duty to do something". In my professional life when I hear the word duty attached to an allegation from a non-lawyer it tells me they've already talked to somebody and they are in the process of drafting up the paperwork.

Urban will probably skate for a little while, but whether he gets the boot or not will depend on the amount of political pressure Ohio State and its large donors receives. If certain advocacy groups start boycotting an OSU donor who in turn withholds large donations it might seal his fate. Frankly I doubt OSU ever fires him--- what more likely happens is he decides to take a head coaching gig in the NFL.

True. FWIW Smith's ex could have also called the AD or the President of OSU herself. I think too many duties are falling on the coaching staff.

No question. Frankly the ex should have just gone to the cops and let them handle the matter. If the police didn't respond get an attorney. Coaches and universities aren't designed to handle this sort of stuff (and frankly they shouldn't be that's why we have law enforcement). This sort of thing doesn't insert itself in other walks of life--- if I start beating my wife she's not going to go complain to the Vice President of my department or the CEO of the company. If she did they would just tell her to call the authorities.

I think this is the most difficult aspect of it. I'm not saying Urban isn't culpable, but to what level? He doesn't have investigative authorities - all he could do is fire Smith based upon hearsay and prior experience. And while JR's point about local law enforcement being cowed by the university is true, it is still better to inform them and watch them fail. That is better than this misguided presumption that sports organizations and their leadership can adjudicate legal matters.

If it doesn’t affect work it’s none of the employers business

The fact that Meyer lied about this is a red flag. He stood at a podium last week, said that there was no 2015 domestic incident involving Smith, and flat-out said that Brett McMurphy made it up. "I don't know who creates a story like that."

Administrators with common sense know that when someone, particularly someone really high profile like a head coach, starts lying like that, there could easily be something much worse there than just the lie. At Bobby Petrino's post-crash media appearance, he only lied about being alone when he wrecked his motorcycle. That's not a fireable offense. After his lie fell apart, it turned out he was with a woman who worked with him, and wait, we still haven't gotten to the fireable part, which is that he gave that woman a plum job at a nice salary while not disclosing to his boss that he had violated school policy and exposed the university to significant liability by not only having an affair with a subordinate, but hiring someone with whom he was having an affair over two much more qualified applicants.

Petrino's lie was like the top layer of an onion, and there was just more and more and more there as the layers were peeled away. Will the same be true of Meyer's lie?

https://sports.yahoo.com/contract-clause...00614.html

Meyer signed a contract extension in April which included a Title IX clause that required him to report violations of OSU's sexual misconduct policy. The University could fire him outright with cause and not have to pay him the $38 million the contract gave him over 5 years.

(08-02-2018 12:37 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  https://sports.yahoo.com/contract-clause...00614.html

Meyer signed a contract extension in April which included a Title IX clause that required him to report violations of OSU's sexual misconduct policy. The University could fire him outright with cause and not have to pay him the $38 million the contract gave him over 5 years.

I wonder if that was put in because of the sex scandal of a former doctor for the teams since the school started to investigate the claims from the wrestlers? There were claims that some football players were molested by that doctor in the 1980s/90s period. The investigation started around this time.

(08-01-2018 11:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The fact that Meyer lied about this is a red flag. He stood at a podium last week, said that there was no 2015 domestic incident involving Smith, and flat-out said that Brett McMurphy made it up. "I don't know who creates a story like that."

(snip)

Petrino's lie was like the top layer of an onion, and there was just more and more and more there as the layers were peeled away. Will the same be true of Meyer's lie?

I don't think it's been proved that Meyer lied. He could just have been unaware of the 2015 domestic abuse, so for him they didn't exist. That's being wrong, it's not lying.

I also don't think there was a deeper conspiracy here, I don't think there are other onion layers to peel.

I also don't think it will matter: I will be surprised if Urban Meyer ever coaches another game at Ohio State or any other major school. Maybe a 10% chance he tries to start over at a small school somewhere, but I doubt that. And if that happens I don't think it will be unfair either.

Bottom line is IMO, a head coach is one of those "on my watch" positions in an organization. A head coach is the undisputed ruler of his program, he's responsible for the totality of it. As is the case with NCAA violations, part of his job is to know things, so claiming you didn't know isn't a valid excuse. It happened on your watch, and you didn't act to report it, so you have to go.

I bet Bob Stoops would come out of retirement to coach Ohio State.

(08-01-2018 08:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It would be interesting to see who Ohio State targets as Meyer's replacement if he's fired.

I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

Never happen, but how about one of these guys:

Lane Kiffin

John Harbaugh

Jim Tressel (he's only 65)

Les Miles (wouldn't take it; Ohio Stadium has artificial turf)

I don't know if he'd be offered the job, if he'd take it, or if he'd be successful, but it sure would be entertaining!!!

(08-02-2018 07:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 11:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The fact that Meyer lied about this is a red flag. He stood at a podium last week, said that there was no 2015 domestic incident involving Smith, and flat-out said that Brett McMurphy made it up. "I don't know who creates a story like that."

(snip)

Petrino's lie was like the top layer of an onion, and there was just more and more and more there as the layers were peeled away. Will the same be true of Meyer's lie?

I don't think it's been proved that Meyer lied. He could just have been unaware of the 2015 domestic abuse, so for him they didn't exist. That's being wrong, it's not lying.

I also don't think there was a deeper conspiracy here, I don't think there are other onion layers to peel.

I also don't think it will matter: I will be surprised if Urban Meyer ever coaches another game at Ohio State or any other major school. Maybe a 10% chance he tries to start over at a small school somewhere, but I doubt that. And if that happens I don't think it will be unfair either.

Bottom line is IMO, a head coach is one of those "on my watch" positions in an organization. A head coach is the undisputed ruler of his program, he's responsible for the totality of it. As is the case with NCAA violations, part of his job is to know things, so claiming you didn't know isn't a valid excuse. It happened on your watch, and you didn't act to report it, so you have to go.

The wives say he knew enough to confront him

A conversation between Courtney and Lindsey Voltolini, however, implied that Lindsey had talked to Urban about the incident.

Courtney: “(Zach’s) trying to make me look crazy bc that’s what Shelley is saying (he’s doing)”
Lindsey: “He (Urban) just said he (Zach) denied everything”
Courtney: “I hope urban is smarter than that”
Lindsey: “He (Urban) doesn’t know what to think”
Courtney: “I don’t really care. Ya know”
Lindsey: “Yeah, don’t worry about urb”

"All the (coaches) wives knew," Courtney told McMurphy. "They all did. Every single one."

I would think, initially, that Meyer would survive this, but........there's another scandal swirling around the Ohio State Athletic Department, and one that's going to be drawn out, controversial, and very high profile. The President might be 'playing tough' to save his job. If Meyer loses his job, it might be because of wrestling, not football.

(08-02-2018 08:00 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It would be interesting to see who Ohio State targets as Meyer's replacement if he's fired.

I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

Never happen, but how about one of these guys:

Lane Kiffin

John Harbaugh

Jim Tressel (he's only 65)

Les Miles (wouldn't take it; Ohio Stadium has artificial turf)

I don't know if he'd be offered the job, if he'd take it, or if he'd be successful, but it sure would be entertaining!!!

I think Kiffin would take that job in a heartbeat, but I think it would be a mistake to offer it to him. A P5 program without the pedigree might need to take a risk like that, but top notch candidates will line up for a place like OSU.

(08-01-2018 07:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It would be interesting to see who Ohio State targets as Meyer's replacement if he's fired.

I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

They are the Ohio State University. They'll go after a name. They might hire an interim for this season from within, but they will go after a name.

Other than Urban, Ohio State doesn't usually pick "big names." They usually pick small names with strong Ohio ties.

Jim Tressel was an OSU assistant for 3 years and then spent 15 years at D-1AA Youngstown State.

John Cooper was an up-and-comer. 8 years at Tulsa, then 3 at Arizona State. His second year at ASU was great (10-1) but he wasn't a "big name."

Earle Bruce had been at Iowa State for 6 years, but was only ranked one of those years. But he was an Ohio high school coach for 11 years and an OSU assistant for 6 years.

Woody Hayes played at Dennison (Ohio), coached 3 years at Dennison, and coached 2 years at Miami (Ohio).



So out of their last five coaches, four had strong Ohio ties and only one was a "big name."

(08-02-2018 07:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 11:56 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The fact that Meyer lied about this is a red flag. He stood at a podium last week, said that there was no 2015 domestic incident involving Smith, and flat-out said that Brett McMurphy made it up. "I don't know who creates a story like that."

(snip)

Petrino's lie was like the top layer of an onion, and there was just more and more and more there as the layers were peeled away. Will the same be true of Meyer's lie?

I don't think it's been proved that Meyer lied. He could just have been unaware of the 2015 domestic abuse, so for him they didn't exist. That's being wrong, it's not lying.

I also don't think there was a deeper conspiracy here, I don't think there are other onion layers to peel.

I also don't think it will matter: I will be surprised if Urban Meyer ever coaches another game at Ohio State or any other major school. Maybe a 10% chance he tries to start over at a small school somewhere, but I doubt that. And if that happens I don't think it will be unfair either.

Bottom line is IMO, a head coach is one of those "on my watch" positions in an organization. A head coach is the undisputed ruler of his program, he's responsible for the totality of it. As is the case with NCAA violations, part of his job is to know things, so claiming you didn't know isn't a valid excuse. It happened on your watch, and you didn't act to report it, so you have to go.

I tend to agree.

(08-01-2018 07:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It would be interesting to see who Ohio State targets as Meyer's replacement if he's fired.

I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

They are the Ohio State University. They'll go after a name. They might hire an interim for this season from within, but they will go after a name.

Matt Campbell is a name, at least in Ohio. And Iowa. And Oklahoma.

(08-02-2018 10:32 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 08:00 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It would be interesting to see who Ohio State targets as Meyer's replacement if he's fired.

I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

Never happen, but how about one of these guys:

Lane Kiffin

John Harbaugh

Jim Tressel (he's only 65)

Les Miles (wouldn't take it; Ohio Stadium has artificial turf)

I don't know if he'd be offered the job, if he'd take it, or if he'd be successful, but it sure would be entertaining!!!

I think Kiffin would take that job in a heartbeat, but I think it would be a mistake to offer it to him. A P5 program without the pedigree might need to take a risk like that, but top notch candidates will line up for a place like OSU.

Right, Ohio State won't offer the job to Kiffin. My entire list is a "just for fun" list.

In a sure sign of the end, the first endorsement deal has been suspended.

Bob Evans restaurant chain puts deal on hold

(08-02-2018 02:32 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 10:32 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 08:00 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

Never happen, but how about one of these guys:

Lane Kiffin

John Harbaugh

Jim Tressel (he's only 65)

Les Miles (wouldn't take it; Ohio Stadium has artificial turf)

I don't know if he'd be offered the job, if he'd take it, or if he'd be successful, but it sure would be entertaining!!!

I think Kiffin would take that job in a heartbeat, but I think it would be a mistake to offer it to him. A P5 program without the pedigree might need to take a risk like that, but top notch candidates will line up for a place like OSU.

Right, Ohio State won't offer the job to Kiffin. My entire list is a "just for fun" list.

If I was making a real list then I might put David Shaw at the top of it.

I think Frost really screwed up. Can you imagine staying one more year and Meyer does get fired. His recruiting skills and what he did at UCF could have put him in a great position.

(08-01-2018 08:03 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It would be interesting to see who Ohio State targets as Meyer's replacement if he's fired.

I'd guess the top of the list would look like this:
-Matt Campbell, Current HC at Iowa State, former HC Toledo: Knows Ohio, has succeeded at both Toledo AND Iowa State, has a squeaky clean image at this point.

-Pat Fitzgerald, Current HC at Northwestern: Younger, successful Coach at a Big 10 school.

-Jason Candle, Current HC at Toledo: Has sustained success at MAC level Toledo, familiar with Ohio recruiting area.

If they try to poach in-conference, I’d add Jeff Brohm to the contenders.

Agree!

Sent from my SM-G920V using CSNbbs mobile app

Darn... just when I thought the SEC and Florida derailed him.

(08-02-2018 03:51 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  I think Frost really screwed up. Can you imagine staying one more year and Meyer does get fired. His recruiting skills and what he did at UCF could have put him in a great position.

How on earth could Frost have possibly anticipated this?