Oh, btw, if Trump continues to help bring jobs back stateside, I dont care what he says or who he screws.

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

Strongly disagree. He is a top 5-er all day. MJ, Kareem, Magic, Lebron, Wilt. No particular order. In each of their eras teams were afraid of of them by themselves. Can guard and play all 5 positions at an all-NBA level. He alone made the East an undesirable conference to play if you weren’t going to be on his team.

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I’m a James fan off the court. Don’t go for him in games.

But you’re right about the teams LeBron took to the finals. Even from the Super Team, he played with Chris Bosh who struggled in his role sometimes and Wade had years of wear and tear hurting him.

His Cavs years were marked with some of the most undependable players in the league.

(08-04-2018 09:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

I'm with ya....however, if I wanted the ball in somebody's hands in the final seconds, I take Bird all day long....

(08-04-2018 09:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

I'm with ya....however, if I wanted the ball in somebody's hands in the final seconds, I take Bird all day long....

I met him when I was buying a boat about 25 years ago (same dealer). When I shook his hand I felt like I had racoon hands. He is a lot bigger in person and quite subdued. Very nice quiet kinda guy. Lol. I've had too much bourbon. Lol

(08-04-2018 09:25 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

I'm with ya....however, if I wanted the ball in somebody's hands in the final seconds, I take Bird all day long....

I met him when I was buying a boat about 25 years ago (same dealer). When I shook his hand I felt like I had racoon hands. He is a lot bigger in person and quite subdued. Lol

the Bird/Magic yrs were epic and too much fun to watch.....the bad boy Pistons and MJ + Pippen were pretty dayum good too....

I can't watch it today.....too much bs within the substance.....just like NASCAR.....

I have trouble putting Bird top 5. I just can’t leave Wilt out.

(08-04-2018 09:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:25 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

I'm with ya....however, if I wanted the ball in somebody's hands in the final seconds, I take Bird all day long....

I met him when I was buying a boat about 25 years ago (same dealer). When I shook his hand I felt like I had racoon hands. He is a lot bigger in person and quite subdued. Lol

the Bird/Magic yrs were epic and too much fun to watch.....the bad boy Pistons and MJ + Pippen were pretty dayum good too....

I can't watch it today.....too much bs within the substance.....just like NASCAR.....

You’re missing it man. The talent is at its best and they’re the type of people that you’d want too.

I used to totally ignore the NBA for college basketball, but they switched in quality.

(08-04-2018 09:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I have trouble putting Bird top 5. I just can’t leave Wilt out.

IMO, Wilt was like a Jim Brown......both were a beast amongst man-children.....

you can't take away what they did.....but it's like Tiger vs. Jack......the competition was more saturated with talent as time progressed....therefore, I'll take the more current version almost every time.....

at the end of the day, it's been fun watching some seriously talented individuals over my lifetime.....

defining the 'best' has never mattered to me.....it's simply the subject matter that is intriguing....

(08-04-2018 09:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I have trouble putting Bird top 5. I just can’t leave Wilt out.

IMO, Wilt was like a Jim Brown......both were a beast amongst man-children.....

you can't take away what they did.....but it's like Tiger vs. Jack......the competition was more saturated with talent as time progressed....therefore, I'll take the more current version almost every time.....

at the end of the day, it's been fun watching some seriously talented individuals over my lifetime.....

defining the 'best' has never mattered to me.....it's simply the subject matter that is intriguing....

I agree. It’s hard to name the best because the amount of teams, athletes, and the nature of preparation have changed.

If James played back in the 80's, he'd be an even bigger whiner than he is today.

Back then, there was more depth and more defense.

(08-04-2018 09:25 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

I'm with ya....however, if I wanted the ball in somebody's hands in the final seconds, I take Bird all day long....

I met him when I was buying a boat about 25 years ago (same dealer). When I shook his hand I felt like I had racoon hands. He is a lot bigger in person and quite subdued. Very nice quiet kinda guy. Lol. I've had too much bourbon. Lol

LOL, racoon hands. GD that's funny.

People say that, but the defense seemed better because the offense wasn’t as good. Centers weren’t shooting like they can today.

James would also be an overwhelming physical presence if he played then. A lot of people were his height, but not many had his weight and athleticism.

I agree with Nomad with the on the court opinion vs the off the court opinion. That LeBron gives back matters to me. So, even though his view of Trump is very different than mine, I respect the man for putting his money where his mouth his. The name-calling by both Trump and James is not needed and counterproductive. And I do not support either's comments.

(08-04-2018 02:37 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 12:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why does he do this stupid s***?

This is a good question that probably deserves its own thread. Even amongst his supporters, I believe most would take this to be one of the things they would change about him. It's something deeply seeded in him, probably from a very young age.

If I were Lebron and in a petty mood, I'd mention my part in a successful sports ownership group and ask him how those NJ Generals are doing. It's the one thing that I've seen Trump get triggered enough to just walk off and sit in a corner.

Why does Obama trash talk the opposition? One grew up in one party Chicago and the other in New York. Neither had a good Southern mom to teach them manners.

(08-04-2018 08:06 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 07:57 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 07:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Trump only did it because he was hurt. He absolutely cannot understand why there are people who don’t absolutely love him.

wrong.....he doesn't give a shite who's crotch he squeezes when they fk with him.....

I know someone just like that......

I’d expect you to think that (that’s not an insult btw). I happen to think that he absolutely does care.

I know people just like that too.

Nah. He's just a New Yorker being a New Yorker. They don't take it personally because they all do it.

(08-04-2018 09:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  James is one of the most overrated players in sports today.

Yeah, he's good. But not an all timer.

35 years ago he'd be considered a good all-star. Not a legend.

Alex English
Bernard King
Reggie Theus
Tom Chambers

And countless others were as good as James back in the 80's.

disclaimer - I'm not a Lebron James fan at all - really I haven't watched much NBA period in the last 10-15 years.....

But, I thought it's all about winning with you guys? James has won 3 NBA titles (and made it to the Finals 6 other times). And I'd argue that a lot of those years were with just slightly better than average teammates. The four guys you mentioned were all good offensive players but how many NBA Finals did those four play in, combined? I bet you it's not even close to Lebron's 9.

In my lifetime, I'd put MJ #1, Magic, Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2-4, but James is probably #5. I doubt the four guys you mentioned would be in the top 20 - maybe not in the top 50.

I loathe the NBA and basketball but Michael Jordan was a transcendent. Bo Jackson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretsky, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps. A complete level above the rest if only for a moment.

I don't know that lebron has ever been at that level. Maybe he has. I defer.

I'm with ya....however, if I wanted the ball in somebody's hands in the final seconds, I take Bird all day long....

For the last minute in the playoffs, I would probably take Robert Horry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Horry

"...Horry collected his seventh championship as a member of the Spurs in 2007.[15] He is one of only nine players to have won seven or more championships in the NBA, and the only one who did not play on the 1960s Celtics. Robert Horry was one of only four players to have won back-to-back NBA championships with two different teams as of 2007.[16] In 2005, he joined John Salley as the only players to win NBA rings with three different teams. At the time of his retirement, he was the all-time leader in playoff games played with 244 games through the 2008 playoffs, having surpassed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.[17]

Horry has held the record for three-pointers all-time in the NBA Finals with 53, having eclipsed Michael Jordan's previous record of 42. He set, and still holds today, the NBA Playoffs record for most three-point field goals made in a game without a miss (7) against the Utah Jazz in Game 2 of the 1997 Western Conference Semifinals. Horry has regular season career averages of 7.2 points, 4.9 rebounds and 2.2 assists per game...."

(08-04-2018 09:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I have trouble putting Bird top 5. I just can’t leave Wilt out.

IMO, Wilt was like a Jim Brown......both were a beast amongst man-children.....

you can't take away what they did.....but it's like Tiger vs. Jack......the competition was more saturated with talent as time progressed....therefore, I'll take the more current version almost every time.....

at the end of the day, it's been fun watching some seriously talented individuals over my lifetime.....

defining the 'best' has never mattered to me.....it's simply the subject matter that is intriguing....

Except when he ran into Bill Russell in the playoffs. Russell could keep up with him.

And why does everyone forget Moses Malone and Hakeem Olajuwon? Maybe they wouldn't be top 5, but they are in the same breath. Moses broke up the Lakers/Celtics 80s with the 1981 Rockets who had a losing record and took the Celtics to 6 in the finals and with the 76ers who won it all. Olajuwon won back to back and also took out the Lakers in 86, but fell short against the Celtics. Moses and Hakeem are part of the reason they allow zone defenses again. Everyone played a zone against them illegally.