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Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-16-2018 10:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Little Rock would be FBS number 3 team for football.

At the time that SBC looking to add Appalachian State and Georgia Southern, they were also looking at North Florida. At that time, UNF was looking at adding football. If they pulled the trigger? Would they have been invited instead of Coastal Carolina? There is already a pro-stadium in the city that they could use until they can build their on-campus stadium. As it is, here what it would look like right now if you split the conference east/west.

East:
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
App. State
UNF
FGCU
Troy
South Alabama
Coastal Carolina

West:
Little Rock
Arkansas State
La.-Lafayette
La.-Monroe
UTA
Texas State
Missouri State
Lamar

16 team conference. All the SBC football teams are on the east. Adding Lamar and Missouri State would actually even out the football schools east and west. Adding the 2 A-Sun Florida schools would actually even out the basketball schools. You have a conference of 12/16. All 4 non-football schools are or have been looking to add football. When the next realignment occurs? Some of the SBC schools could have moved, and that the SBC would still have plenty of schools to make a football conference if the other four added football. If I were the Commish of the SBC? I would tell them that we should not stay at 10 football schools, We should expand to 12 teams. I would grab Lamar and Missouri State, and actually have the conference well-balanced. Then, we should keep contact with schools like Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, North Alabama, Eastern Kentucky, Sam Houston State, Northern Iowa, Chattanooga, East Tennessee State, Richmond, VCU, UNF, FGCU, Murray State, Youngstown State, Delaware, James Madison, and maybe a New Mexico State in the future.

No thanks, the SBC would rather have Karl Benson. 03-puke
08-16-2018 06:57 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
Marshall, JMU, Liberty, Old Dominion, Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, FIU, FAU, WKU, MTSU, UAB

All those schools should be in one conference. It would be like a mini SEC with the easy travel and rivalries would form as fan bases would overlap in these areas.
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2018 11:30 AM by Carolina_Low_Country.)
08-16-2018 07:33 PM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-16-2018 10:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Little Rock would be FBS number 3 team for football.

At the time that SBC looking to add Appalachian State and Georgia Southern, they were also looking at North Florida. At that time, UNF was looking at adding football. If they pulled the trigger? Would they have been invited instead of Coastal Carolina? There is already a pro-stadium in the city that they could use until they can build their on-campus stadium. As it is, here what it would look like right now if you split the conference east/west.

East:
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
App. State
UNF
FGCU
Troy
South Alabama
Coastal Carolina

West:
Little Rock
Arkansas State
La.-Lafayette
La.-Monroe
UTA
Texas State
Missouri State
Lamar

16 team conference. All the SBC football teams are on the east. Adding Lamar and Missouri State would actually even out the football schools east and west. Adding the 2 A-Sun Florida schools would actually even out the basketball schools. You have a conference of 12/16. All 4 non-football schools are or have been looking to add football. When the next realignment occurs? Some of the SBC schools could have moved, and that the SBC would still have plenty of schools to make a football conference if the other four added football. If I were the Commish of the SBC? I would tell them that we should not stay at 10 football schools, We should expand to 12 teams. I would grab Lamar and Missouri State, and actually have the conference well-balanced. Then, we should keep contact with schools like Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, North Alabama, Eastern Kentucky, Sam Houston State, Northern Iowa, Chattanooga, East Tennessee State, Richmond, VCU, UNF, FGCU, Murray State, Youngstown State, Delaware, James Madison, and maybe a New Mexico State in the future.
UALR is not going to add football. None of the other are legit contenders outside of MSU. There is no rush to split the money more ways and there are enough teams for a championship game already. Ten teams allows for lots of cross division play as well.

I could see going to 12 if an established team or a newcomer who moves the needle was available but that is not the case for now.
08-17-2018 09:46 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
I see the SBC fans do not see the picture. You all lost FAU, FIU, North Texas the last go around. You could lose Arkansas State, Texas State, South Alabama and Georgia State in the next round. That leaves 6 schools. You need to add a couple more to make it 8 in case you get raided again. Benson is the death of the SBC just as he was with the WAC for football. You need to be proactive, not reactive. Doing nothing now will hurt the conference in the future.
08-17-2018 03:46 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-16-2018 10:01 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(08-16-2018 08:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 06:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Jacksonville St, Lamar and Sam Houston have been wanting an FBS spot for almost a decade, but no dice.

They're all in overcrowded states already. Late to the party.

Based on population per FBS university, it looks like there is still room; especially in Texas. Using the Sun Belt Conference states, here's a comparision.

......Est Pop 7/2017............. FBS Programs ............Pop per FBS
Texas: 28,304,596..........................12........................ 2,358,716
Georgia: 10,429,379........................4..........................2,607,345
North Carolina: 10,273,419...............7..........................1,467,631
South Carolina: 5,024,369................3..........................1,674,790
Alabama: 4,874,747.........................4.................... .....1,218,687
Louisiana: 4,684,333........................5............................936,867
Arkansas: 3,004,279........................2..........................1,502,140

04-cheers

Alabama has 5 FBS teams: Alabama, Auburn, South Alabama, Troy, and UAB. That’s 1 FBS per 974,949 people.
08-17-2018 04:53 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-17-2018 03:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I see the SBC fans do not see the picture. You all lost FAU, FIU, North Texas the last go around. You could lose Arkansas State, Texas State, South Alabama and Georgia State in the next round. That leaves 6 schools. You need to add a couple more to make it 8 in case you get raided again. Benson is the death of the SBC just as he was with the WAC for football. You need to be proactive, not reactive. Doing nothing now will hurt the conference in the future.

They should and likely will look to add a few schools here in the next few years with a new commissioner. 10 teams isn’t ideal I wouldn’t think
08-17-2018 05:33 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-16-2018 08:49 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:06 PM)SENOREIDA Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 06:25 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  That is if CCU was not interested and geography not a factor.( somehow someone will get offended.)
CCU had to commit to a thirty two million dollar stadium expansion to 20600.

Montana, JMU, JSU , and PSU need no investment .
NDSU a small investment expanding their dome. They are really upgrading their facilities to a pretty high level.

Weber st
Montana St
Idaho
Are among the ones one decent size investment away.



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The Sun Belt didn't want outliers anymore. Most likely would have been Missouri State, if not for CCU

Forgetting about Liberty who already had impressive facilities.

Liberty has great facilities but athletically Coastal has been better than Liberty when they were both in the Big South.
08-17-2018 11:39 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-17-2018 03:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I see the SBC fans do not see the picture. You all lost FAU, FIU, North Texas the last go around. You could lose Arkansas State, Texas State, South Alabama and Georgia State in the next round. That leaves 6 schools. You need to add a couple more to make it 8 in case you get raided again. Benson is the death of the SBC just as he was with the WAC for football. You need to be proactive, not reactive. Doing nothing now will hurt the conference in the future.

This somehow might actually be the dumbest of your posts.

Nobody left the WAC BECAUSE of Benson. The MWC 8 left because they could do the math and understood they could make more per team in their own league than they could in the WAC and they could play each other every year.

TCU left because they could join a then superior CUSA.
Rice, SMU, Tulsa, UTEP because they could join a somewhat better CUSA that was a better geographic fit.
Boise left because the MWC was a better league.
Fresno, Hawaii, and Nevada because MWC was better, more compact and stable.
La Tech left to be in a more geographically appropriate CUSA.
etc. etc.

It had nothing to do with who was commissioner and everything to do with money and geography.

If the WAC presidents had added two schools instead of six in 1996 there probably is no MWC today.

Yes the Sun Belt lost some teams. The Massey composite for 2012 had North Texas 100, FIU 103, and FAU 110. Not like the league ended up being gutted and the league made a decision to end its relationships with Idaho and NMSU. It declined to extend invitations to Liberty and EKU who both presented to the league. It declined to extend a football only to UMass despite their inquiry.

Do you really think that Liberty or NMSU would say no if the league needed to add one or two to survive?

You post endless lists of move up schools and then turn around and think finding replacements would be difficult. Pick one. Which is it? Are there piles of schools clamoring to move up or are those schools rare.

As for UALR, hell did you bother to read the study that was done? They cannot afford it. The same thing I said before the study back when everyone said I was blowing smoke because I didn't want them to add football and be competition. The reality is my back of an envelope guesstimate of UALR's potential outlay to add football was more favorable to UALR football than their own study.
08-18-2018 12:01 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-17-2018 04:53 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(08-16-2018 10:01 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(08-16-2018 08:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 06:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Jacksonville St, Lamar and Sam Houston have been wanting an FBS spot for almost a decade, but no dice.

They're all in overcrowded states already. Late to the party.

Based on population per FBS university, it looks like there is still room; especially in Texas. Using the Sun Belt Conference states, here's a comparision.

......Est Pop 7/2017............. FBS Programs ............Pop per FBS
Texas: 28,304,596..........................12........................ 2,358,716
Georgia: 10,429,379........................4..........................2,607,345
North Carolina: 10,273,419...............7..........................1,467,631
South Carolina: 5,024,369................3..........................1,674,790
Alabama: 4,874,747.........................4.................... .....1,218,687
Louisiana: 4,684,333........................5............................936,867
Arkansas: 3,004,279........................2..........................1,502,140

04-cheers

Alabama has 5 FBS teams: Alabama, Auburn, South Alabama, Troy, and UAB. That’s 1 FBS per 974,949 people.
While true but Souths market also includes parts of Mississippi and Florida. UAT and Aub pull from everywhere especially UAT. Same could be said for schools located in other states, too. The better known schools pull from a national audience and border institutions pull from bordering states.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2018 09:25 AM by Gemofthehills.)
08-19-2018 09:24 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-15-2018 09:43 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The only serious challenger was New Mexico State. The western schools of the SBC wanted them, as more known program, strong Basketball and Baseball, and not much of an outlier for the Texas and Arkansas schools. Supposedly NMSU had as many as 7 votes, definitely 5, but needed 9. Although they were a known commodity and Carruthers well liked by his peers, the geography did them in. They didn't work as a travel partner for App St in Basketball, which is what it came down to. That and adding them would have required possibly sending Troy to the East, splitting them from South Alabama (Missouri State would create the same problems).

But the eastern schools were largely controlled by Benson (a couple moved up under his eye), and geography was his big issue. He didn't want a pairing like App St and NMSU. He wanted an eastern school, relatively close.

Benson went asking all sorts of schools about moving up including Chattanooga, Jacksonville State and of course JMU, Delaware and Towson. Supposedly Missouri State, EKU and some others also got a ping. But these were more along the lines of Benson and the SBC kicking the sand to see if anyone was interested, so they could have some options to evaluate. Everyone said they were not interested in moving up except CCU (well JMU said "FBS maybe, but the SBC, No, No and really No"). So it came down to CCU and NMSU.

I had this one wrong, as I thought travel partner in Basketball was not strong enough a reason to bring up CCU, which academically was and is the bottom of the SBC, a liberal arts schools without even an engineering school. Also Arkansas State's President was openly batting for NMSU and he was on the search committee. But in the end the basketball scheduling intern won the day. So it was CCU, with their surprisingly awesome baseball team, and their ... well their cheerleaders.

CCU had the geography and a good athletic program. They have a top 25 baseball program as well as a top 25 men's soccer program. In 2017, CCU made it to the round of 16 before losing to Stanford, the eventual champs. CCU opens the men's soccer season on Friday with a game at home against UCLA.

When they were invited to the SBC, they were coming off back-to-back NCAA basketball tournament appearances as well as three straight FCS playoff appearances. As for the academics, the Sun Belt is not a league of academic giants, so I think CCU was a good fit academically for the SBC. CCU is a national sea grant institution, I really doubt if they are by far the worst academically in the conference.
08-19-2018 06:13 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
Yeah SoCal I agree Texas State kind of sucks like CCU academically

ROFL
08-19-2018 06:50 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-19-2018 06:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Yeah SoCal I agree Texas State kind of sucks like CCU academically

ROFL

That is probably not how I would put it, but I am glad you got a good laugh out of it. In the Forbes listing of Best Colleges, 8 of the 12 Sun Belt schools made the list of 650 schools in the Forbes ranking. Four did not make it. Texas State was the #2 school in the Sun Belt, behind App State. Texas State University is also the only college in Texas to have graduated a U.S. president (LBJ). It is a good school, but it is not Rice and we don't play in the Ivy league. I am just happy that my school is in an FBS conference.
08-19-2018 07:37 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-15-2018 10:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Haven’t looked, but isn’t Ga St the travel partner for App St? App St normally flies out of Charlotte (but others are possible) and Atlanta is a relatively easy drive from there.

Coastal and Ga Southern aren’t that far apart either with Savannah/Hilton Head or Charleston airports between them. App St and Coastal are not that easy to drive between.
GA State & Coastal are 5 hrs from Boone, GA Southern 5 1/2 hrs.

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08-20-2018 10:36 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-17-2018 03:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I see the SBC fans do not see the picture. You all lost FAU, FIU, North Texas the last go around. You could lose Arkansas State, Texas State, South Alabama and Georgia State in the next round. That leaves 6 schools. You need to add a couple more to make it 8 in case you get raided again. Benson is the death of the SBC just as he was with the WAC for football. You need to be proactive, not reactive. Doing nothing now will hurt the conference in the future.
To whom is the SB losing them to?

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08-20-2018 10:41 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
The NC payout is based on a ten team conference, so it is the perfect number.

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08-20-2018 10:46 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-20-2018 10:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The NC payout is based on a ten team conference, so it is the perfect number.

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What does this mean? I thought each of the G5 conferences receive the same CFP payout, regardless of how many schools are in each one. How could it be "based on" a 10-team conference?
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2018 11:04 AM by Nerdlinger.)
08-20-2018 11:04 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-20-2018 11:04 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 10:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The NC payout is based on a ten team conference, so it is the perfect number.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

What does this mean? I thought each of the G5 conferences receive the same CFP payout, regardless of how many schools are in each one. How could it be "based on" a 10-team conference?

$1 million per team UP TO 10 teams.
08-20-2018 11:13 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-20-2018 11:13 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 11:04 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 10:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The NC payout is based on a ten team conference, so it is the perfect number.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

What does this mean? I thought each of the G5 conferences receive the same CFP payout, regardless of how many schools are in each one. How could it be "based on" a 10-team conference?

$1 million per team UP TO 10 teams.

Ah, I see. It's not really "perfect" for the Sun Belt, though, if they're actually distributing it amongst all 12 teams.
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2018 11:44 AM by Nerdlinger.)
08-20-2018 11:43 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-20-2018 11:43 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 11:13 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 11:04 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 10:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The NC payout is based on a ten team conference, so it is the perfect number.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

What does this mean? I thought each of the G5 conferences receive the same CFP payout, regardless of how many schools are in each one. How could it be "based on" a 10-team conference?

$1 million per team UP TO 10 teams.

Ah, I see. It's not really "perfect" for the Sun Belt, though, if they're actually distributing it amongst all 12 teams.

They're not, UTA & UALR don't get a share of CFP distribution.
08-20-2018 12:26 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Schools that could have taken CCU's spot .
(08-20-2018 12:26 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 11:43 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 11:13 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 11:04 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-20-2018 10:46 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  The NC payout is based on a ten team conference, so it is the perfect number.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

What does this mean? I thought each of the G5 conferences receive the same CFP payout, regardless of how many schools are in each one. How could it be "based on" a 10-team conference?

$1 million per team UP TO 10 teams.

Ah, I see. It's not really "perfect" for the Sun Belt, though, if they're actually distributing it amongst all 12 teams.

They're not, UTA & UALR don't get a share of CFP distribution.

Per arkstfan in another thread, they do: https://csnbbs.com/thread-855670-post-15...id15438916 -- I can't vouch for the claim though.
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2018 12:28 PM by Nerdlinger.)
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