(08-17-2018 02:52 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

I'm not for permanent crossovers. We only have two cross-division games a year. With 2 a year and 7 teams in the other division you should see each every 4 years. As we're doing it now it's every seven years.

Are you sure about that? LA Tech is entering its 6th year in CUSA, and we've never played Marshall in regular season, and as far as I know, we're still not scheduled to play 'em.

Yeah because UAB screwed the pooch. Going forward I believe it should.

(08-17-2018 02:52 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

I'm not for permanent crossovers. We only have two cross-division games a year. With 2 a year and 7 teams in the other division you should see each every 4 years. As we're doing it now it's every seven years.

Are you sure about that? LA Tech is entering its 6th year in CUSA, and we've never played Marshall in regular season, and as far as I know, we're still not scheduled to play 'em.

Should be.

The schedule got reset. We basically just started the cycle last season. Everything has to start from there. Next year we get two new cross-divisional teams, and we'll get the same two teams for two years (so we can play each home and away). Then we get the next two, etc. Potentially it could be another 6 years before we see Marshall in the regular season, but surely they'll try to prioritize the match-ups that haven't ever happened for the next pairing.

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

LaTech is probably the 3rd best brand in the West.

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

For arguments sake, I'll just say you and I have really different visions of brand values.

Your examples are kind of goofy. USC and UCLA, Texas and Oklahoma, Ohio State and Michigan, and Alabama/LSU/Auburn are all in the same divisions in their conferences. Better examples would be Stanford never playing USC, Ohio State never playing Wisconsin, and Alabama never playing Florida.

This may not be at all a good way to determine biggest brand in the West, but according to USA Today's 2017 budget report, in the merchandising and licensing section, this is the order of brand sales:

USM $5,912,480
UTEP $5,508,837
UNT $5,484,142
UTSA $5,218,364
Tech $3,924,046
UAB $2,180,130
Rice n/a

I dont know how else we could quantify best best. Maybe TV ratings? I dont know. Southern Miss is what I expect to be the top regardless of how we do this. Growing up, I remember thinking of them as a major college football team. Marshall too. I knew of UTEP, Tech, UAB, and UNT, but they never seemed on the same level as USM or Marshall.

(08-17-2018 08:12 PM)Magic95Fan Wrote:  This may not be at all a good way to determine biggest brand in the West, but according to USA Today's 2017 budget report, in the merchandising and licensing section, this is the order of brand sales:

USM $5,912,480
UTEP $5,508,837
UNT $5,484,142
UTSA $5,218,364
Tech $3,924,046
UAB $2,180,130
Rice n/a

I dont know how else we could quantify best best. Maybe TV ratings? I dont know. Southern Miss is what I expect to be the top regardless of how we do this. Growing up, I remember thinking of them as a major college football team. Marshall too. I knew of UTEP, Tech, UAB, and UNT, but they never seemed on the same level as USM or Marshall.

Id probably go with a mix of both merch and ratings.

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

Such a tremendous overinflated sense of where you stack up in the world.

For starters USC/UCLA and Bama/Auburn, Bama/LSU are division games and in the Big XII everyone plays everyone.

tOSU/UM is a permanent crossover and you're right I can't imagine them not playing, but to invoke that rivalry while talking the need for La Tech and Marshall to play annually? Seriously?

Further, as long as we play 8 conference games, setting permanent crossover rivals would mean you'd see the rest of the opposite division in your stadium once every twelve years.

Finally, if we were going to set permanent crossover rivals, Marshall would be at least as likely(if not more so) to be paired with USM rather than LT.

I know ODU would like to play LTU more. And on a Springtime swing through the Paper Mills in MS and LA, had the nice opportunity to stay in Ruston overnight. Ponchatoula's was a fun and good restaurant, and the folks in Ruston were friendly and quick to realize the ODU logo shirt I wore (on purpose) when eating out that evening. I'd like more of that, and less of playing directional Florida schools with logos that look like a ***** on their helmets.

(08-17-2018 08:49 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

Such a tremendous overinflated sense of where you stack up in the world.

For starters USC/UCLA and Bama/Auburn, Bama/LSU are division games and in the Big XII everyone plays everyone.

tOSU/UM is a permanent crossover and you're right I can't imagine them not playing, but to invoke that rivalry while talking the need for La Tech and Marshall to play annually? Seriously?

Further, as long as we play 8 conference games, setting permanent crossover rivals would mean you'd see the rest of the opposite division in your stadium once every twelve years.

Finally, if we were going to set permanent crossover rivals, Marshall would be at least as likely(if not more so) to be paired with USM rather than LT.

You take YOURSELF far too seriously, and you over-inflate where you stack up in the world.

Once again, you just don't get it. You are stuck in that little world all by yourself. Look at the title of this thread! This thread is about Marshall and LA Tech in a potential East/West rivalry, not USM and Marshall. USM and Marshall have both been in CUSA for more than a decade, and have played each other 13 times. So there's no need to bring them into the discussion.

The fact that some of the P5 schools that I named are in the same "division" within a conference has absolutely nothing to do with the point. These schools names were invoked as metaphors to simply demonstrate the absurdity of having two, good, high quality football programs in a conference not playing each other. Same division or not, the conferences for the schools I mentioned are at least smart enough to not make such a foolish mistake. CUSA is obviously not.

And for the record, I never said a word about "permanent crossover rivals". That's just another figment of your imagination. I just want to see LA Tech play Marshall (and ODU) in the regular season every now and then, and especially in Joe Aillet Stadium in Ruston. What's so wrong with that?

(08-16-2018 09:53 PM)banker Wrote:  This is why 14 teams are too many and why some ACC teams have actually started scheduling conference mates for "non conference" games. Sorry, but numbers matter, geography matters, and similarities in mission and academics matter. The SEC is what it is, IMO, because the schools are fairly well clustered and similar. Same for the ACC and Big Ten pre expansion and still mostly post expansion. The Big 12 and PAC 12 are kind of jacked up with some of the same issues we have with geography and the Big 12 also has academic non conformity.

We really need one more round of realignment at the G5 level so that real regional rivalries can be built to help fuel attendance.

No doubt!!

(08-17-2018 06:04 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

For arguments sake, I'll just say you and I have really different visions of brand values.

Your examples are kind of goofy. USC and UCLA, Texas and Oklahoma, Ohio State and Michigan, and Alabama/LSU/Auburn are all in the same divisions in their conferences. Better examples would be Stanford never playing USC, Ohio State never playing Wisconsin, and Alabama never playing Florida.

Marshall, Louisiana Tech, Southern Mississippi, and Rice are the conference's biggest brands. Marshall is the only brand in the East.

(08-17-2018 10:45 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 06:04 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 10:06 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  It doesn't make any sense that LA Tech and Marshall don't play each other in regular season. It's two of CUSA's best brands. I know some folks get offended when we mention conference "brands", but you could really argue that LA Tech is the best brand in the West, and equally argue that Marshall is the best brand in the East. But they never play each other.

That's just dumb. Imagine if the USC Trojans never played UCLA in the Pac 12, Texas never played OU in the Big XII, Ohio St never played Michigan in the Big 10, or BAMA never played LSU or Auburn. It would be foolish and would hurt the conference branding.

For arguments sake, I'll just say you and I have really different visions of brand values.

Your examples are kind of goofy. USC and UCLA, Texas and Oklahoma, Ohio State and Michigan, and Alabama/LSU/Auburn are all in the same divisions in their conferences. Better examples would be Stanford never playing USC, Ohio State never playing Wisconsin, and Alabama never playing Florida.

Marshall, Louisiana Tech, Southern Mississippi, and Rice are the conference's biggest brands. Marshall is the only brand in the East.

Good post Outland, I agree. Thanks for the outside perspective.

(08-17-2018 08:12 PM)Magic95Fan Wrote:  This may not be at all a good way to determine biggest brand in the West, but according to USA Today's 2017 budget report, in the merchandising and licensing section, this is the order of brand sales:

USM $5,912,480
UTEP $5,508,837
UNT $5,484,142
UTSA $5,218,364
Tech $3,924,046
UAB $2,180,130
Rice n/a

I dont know how else we could quantify best best. Maybe TV ratings? I dont know. Southern Miss is what I expect to be the top regardless of how we do this. Growing up, I remember thinking of them as a major college football team. Marshall too. I knew of UTEP, Tech, UAB, and UNT, but they never seemed on the same level as USM or Marshall.

Major? Playing Houston and Memphis, They were always on the same rung as Tech. Tech played in the better Conference in the 2000’s before conference realignment Tech was playing higher ranked teams in the WAC and none of them beat the SEC champions, Tech is the only G5 to take down that feat.

Two of the best brands need to play ASAP!

I’d rather play USM or UAB. Though it would be nice to actually play LT once in regular season.

I think two things are being lumped together: Strength of a team and brand. They are somewhat linked but have different meanings. For instance, most people know who ECU is, but they're terrible (as of now). Better yet, take Tennessee. Great brand, most anyone with a college football IQ knows who they are, but they suck.

What I'm suggesting is LaTech is one of the teams,
if not the team to beat in the west this year, but in my opinion, USM probably has a more widely known brand.

Everyone, everyone... please calm down...

There’s enough Marshall to go around for everyone! Well, unless your LaTech. We don’t got time for that.

(08-18-2018 10:02 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  Everyone, everyone... please calm down...

There’s enough Marshall to go around for everyone! Well, unless your LaTech. We don’t got time for that.

The Herd is scared to play in Ruston

(08-18-2018 10:35 AM)winston70 Wrote:  

(08-18-2018 10:02 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  Everyone, everyone... please calm down...

There’s enough Marshall to go around for everyone! Well, unless your LaTech. We don’t got time for that.

The Herd is scared to play in Ruston

I’m sure that line works on Louisiana or whatever Sun Belt team you can pick on. Tough to say we’re scared when we play the biggest brand in the West every year!

(08-17-2018 10:25 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  You take YOURSELF far too seriously, and you over-inflate where you stack up in the world.

Once again, you just don't get it. You are stuck in that little world all by yourself. Look at the title of this thread! This thread is about Marshall and LA Tech in a potential East/West rivalry, not USM and Marshall. USM and Marshall have both been in CUSA for more than a decade, and have played each other 13 times. So there's no need to bring them into the discussion.

The fact that some of the P5 schools that I named are in the same "division" within a conference has absolutely nothing to do with the point. These schools names were invoked as metaphors to simply demonstrate the absurdity of having two, good, high quality football programs in a conference not playing each other. Same division or not, the conferences for the schools I mentioned are at least smart enough to not make such a foolish mistake. CUSA is obviously not.

And for the record, I never said a word about "permanent crossover rivals". That's just another figment of your imagination. I just want to see LA Tech play Marshall (and ODU) in the regular season every now and then, and especially in Joe Aillet Stadium in Ruston. What's so wrong with that?

As long as we maintain 14 members with an 8 game conference slate, there is only so much that can be done, especially considering the fact that, while LT and Marshall are entering their sixth year as conference mates, there has been membership shake ups or realignments nearly every year since 2013. If we keep the alignment we have for an extended period, cross division rotation will normalize.

I mentioned permanent crossover rivals for two reasons, first others have mentioned it in this thread, but second and more importantly, you invoked several comparisons, all of which were either in a conference where everyone plays one another(unlike CUSA), or division mates(unlike LT and Marshall) or permanent crossover rivals like LT and Marshall could theoretically be. And I brought up USM because in the world where CUSA has permanent crossover rivals, Marshall/USM's existing history is far more reason for them to be paired than "HD thinks La Tech and Marshall are the best brands".

And your "metaphors" suck, comparing LT/Marshall to Bama/Auburn or tOSU/UM etc suggests that this game you want to see so badly is as important to CUSA as those games are to their respective conferences. You might as well be using the Redskins and Cowboys as your "metaphor".

So if you aren't asking for a permanent rival in Marshall, I'm not sure what you're asking for, because even once rotation normalizes, you aren't even going to see the Herd in Ruston all that often.