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Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
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Post: #41
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 05:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 05:25 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I think 6 teams definitely changes the 2014 National Champion (TCU>Ohio St).

Really? TCU lost to Baylor, who lost to Michigan State in the Cotton Bowl.

Ohio State was a beast at the end of that year.

TCU lost by 3 at Baylor when they gave up 24 in a row in the 4th. They also beat Ole Miss 42-3 who beat Alabama and was ranked #9.
08-21-2018 09:36 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
Let me put it another way, as a Big Ten fan, I will care far, far less what happens in the ACC, SEC, PAC-12, and Big 12 if we gr autobids or effective autobids. Right now, we are only talking 4 teams and any team in those conferences can knock my team out and the Big Trn can and has been left out entirely. That gives me a big reason to root for losses for high ranking teams in other conferences.

Once play in those conferences matters less, people are gradually pay more attention to their own conferences but less to the larger picture. National attention wont disappear but the sport is unique for its super high stakes games in the regular season. Getting rid of that will come at a cost
08-21-2018 09:40 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
6 is pointless. You have to go to 8. The structure is not set up for 6 without completely jettisoning the New Year Bowl system.

It just makes more sense to have on campus (or designated nearby NFL stadium for the home game) semi final week after New Years and push the NCG back a week.

I think we all pretty much agree the 5 P5 champs plus the top G5 if they meet a certain ranking criteria (say top 12 or 15 in computer models and polls), and 2 at large.

As for Notre Dame, they simply have not had an 11-1 season, or for an 8 team format 10-2 to even test whether they'd be locked out. IMO if they ever went 11-1 they'd be in, as would pretty much any P5 school. But until they put together such a season, who knows?
08-21-2018 09:56 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 08:30 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 06:20 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:57 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:05 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  i think we should just go fcs play off style, shorten the season a bit. Then give each conference champ shot at the title, plus a few at-large bids and let them settle it on the field. that way the p5 can't hid from the g5 teams that deserve a spot.

The FCS has a three week playoff before the final 4.

Are you suggesting that conferences cut back to 9 games to account for the additional 3 weeks or are you going to have the champions just play those extra weeks? Maybe continue to play your 12 game schedule then add three extra weeks?

I don't see anyone going for expanding the schedule. I also don't see conferences (or their conference networks) agreeing to cut back to 9 games, which would limit someone like the B1G to all conference games.

It's a matter of finances. No offense to NDSU, but they don't generate near the revenue or ratings that an Arkansas (for example) does. Those schools aren't going to give away all that revenue from home games and media contracts to settle for an expanded playoff.

ill admit i am a little ill-informed about the entirety of fcs season and playoffs. The main point i was trying to make is that each conference champion deserves a chance to play for the title.

All 10 of them? Without regard to how good they are? Even a 7-5 Sunbelt conference champ without a single OOC win? Why does that team "deserve a chance"?

Now if you want to give a berth to any conference champion ranked in the Top 10, I could live with that. But what would be the point of holding a first round of playoffs which are so mismatched that nobody except family and friends will want to watch?
id prefer ranked 11+ wins ranked conference champion. there is not chance that a g5 team gets in the top 10
08-21-2018 10:02 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 01:40 PM)Negative Optimist Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 12:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Perhaps the UCF National Championship claim was more eye opening than many thought--- I thought the following comments were quite surprising---

"I would now be open to six," Alvarez told CBS Sports. "Two byes [for the top two teams]. … Maybe give one spot to the … [Group of Five champion]."

Alvarez was referring to the assumption that a six-team bracket would necessitate giving first-round byes to the two highest- ranked teams. Any six-team bracket would almost certainly have to include an automatic spot for the best Group of Five champion. Last year, that was UCF.


https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...convinced/


I think Barry is thinking more about ensuring the Big Ten gets in every year. Wisconsin keeps getting tripped up en route. It is hard for me to discern between my bias to want the little guy join the table, and actually getting the subjectively best 6 (or 8) teams, but there certainly should be a way for access for all teams, and four will likely never get it done for any G5.

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08-21-2018 11:00 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 02:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  6 teams is pointless. There's no good reason to "split the difference" between 4 and 8. If you're going to add another week to the playoff schedule, make it 8 teams. If another week is "too much" in the eyes of whomever makes these decisions, keep it at 4 teams.

Honestly---thats my preference. All P5 champs with an autobid. Top G5 champ with an autobid. Two wildcards. I know its not perfect---but it strikes the right balance between number of slots and time constraints and it provide reasonable access to every FBS team. Yes, the G5 would only have one slot for 65 teams---but at least there is a defined legitimate path to the playoff.

But ... of course they (G5) would not have that, because their rep would be picked committee-style just like the current playoff spots are.

As for the A5, so far, despite the fact that the PAC and Big 12 have missed the playoffs 50% of the time, and even the B1G has now missed, there has been absolutely zero drumbeat among them for a playoff expansion.

So far, at least, the A5 are fine with the concept that no team from their conference will make the playoffs in a given year.

Delaney said as much.

https://www.landof10.com/big-ten/college...ohio-state
08-21-2018 11:08 PM
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 01:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  6 teams is pointless. There's no good reason to "split the difference" between 4 and 8. If you're going to add another week to the playoff schedule, make it 8 teams. If another week is "too much" in the eyes of whomever makes these decisions, keep it at 4 teams.

Agreed.

5 P5 conference champs + 1 G5 conference champ + 2 highest ranked at-large bids (so the indy's like ND/Army get a shot)
08-21-2018 11:30 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
Some of the stuff said in here.....wow just wow.

Quote:Boasting a 12-0 record at the time of playoff selection, the Knights were placed No. 12 in the CFP Rankings. Western Michigan was 13-0 when the field was selected in 2016 and came in ranked 15th.

"There are probably six teams that can win," Alvarez said. "Some of those schools -- that have years like that -- should have a chance. They could fit it in."

-Admission the G5 essentially has no shot at the playoff.

Quote:Alvarez added that the margin of Ohio State's second loss of the season -- 55-24 to Iowa on Nov. 4 – should not have mattered.
"The score of wins is not supposed to make any difference," he said. "It was stated [in the criteria]."

The CFP's Selection Committee Protocol states if teams are close, the outcomes against common opponents should be considered, "without incenting margin of victory."

-Admission that its own CFP criteria isn't being strictly followed.

Quote:"I can't speak for anyone else [on the committee]; I'm telling you one of the most important things is strength of schedule," Alvarez said. "That's one of the things they look at first.

-Except for best schedule not best team which is what the CFP actually measures.

Quote:Alvarez added that the committee "screwed up" in 2014, the first year of the playoff. Baylor and TCU tied for the Big 12 title, each at 8-1, without a championship game to boost the resume of a potential victor.

-The committee system is flawed.

07-coffee3
08-21-2018 11:32 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
Bill Hancock says college presidents and conference commissioners have no interest in going beyond 4 teams.

That is a very narrow group of people.
08-21-2018 11:39 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 09:40 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Let me put it another way, as a Big Ten fan, I will care far, far less what happens in the ACC, SEC, PAC-12, and Big 12 if we gr autobids or effective autobids. Right now, we are only talking 4 teams and any team in those conferences can knock my team out and the Big Trn can and has been left out entirely. That gives me a big reason to root for losses for high ranking teams in other conferences.

Once play in those conferences matters less, people are gradually pay more attention to their own conferences but less to the larger picture. National attention wont disappear but the sport is unique for its super high stakes games in the regular season. Getting rid of that will come at a cost

Thats a really odd way to look at things. If you know the winner is definitely going to the playoff, then it’s interesting to see how you stack up against certain teams and root for teams you’d stack up well against. I mean—the NFL seems to have done just fine with AQ for divisions winners and a few wildcards. Btw—It would seem to me the wildcard races would continue to provide the uncertainty you seem to crave in the playoff lselection process.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018 12:45 AM by Attackcoog.)
08-22-2018 12:31 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 04:17 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  6 teams is pointless. There's no good reason to "split the difference" between 4 and 8. If you're going to add another week to the playoff schedule, make it 8 teams. If another week is "too much" in the eyes of whomever makes these decisions, keep it at 4 teams.

Honestly---thats my preference. All P5 champs with an autobid. Top G5 champ with an autobid. Two wildcards. I know its not perfect---but it strikes the right balance between number of slots and time constraints and it provide reasonable access to every FBS team. Yes, the G5 would only have one slot for 65 teams---but at least there is a defined legitimate path to the playoff.

The AAC is never going to voluntarily agree to a "g5" spot. Their entire goal is to eventually get to the point where the conference is given it's own auto-bid. I don't think that one thing that the American has done is to eventually help the "g4" at all, its about trying to get back into power structure while completely eliminating any association with the other g4 leagues. That's why the AAC literally laughed at any talk about a g5 playoff when some of the lesser conferences were ready to throw in the towel. 07-coffee307-coffee3

Then the AAC really doesn't think they are that dominant over the other G5 conferences. If they did, then they would think that G5 autobid spot would always go to them.
08-22-2018 03:23 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 05:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 04:45 PM)megadrone Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 03:14 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 02:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 02:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  But ... of course they (G5) would not have that, because their rep would be picked committee-style just like the current playoff spots are.

As for the A5, so far, despite the fact that the PAC and Big 12 have missed the playoffs 50% of the time, and even the B1G has now missed, there has been absolutely zero drumbeat among them for a playoff expansion.

So far, at least, the A5 are fine with the concept that no team from their conference will make the playoffs in a given year.

One of the 5 G5 champs would get in every year. Thats a legit path that in no way currently exists. Given the brutality of the sport and the time/length constraints of any FBS playoff---its about the best that can realistically be done. The only option to get every champ in the playoff is 12-16 teams and thats not going to happen. 04-cheers

Why should G5 teams have an automatic bid, regardless of their credentials, when the A5 conferences have no such bid?

Because they can't get in by the current ranking system, and the system will eventually be questioned (i.e. by Congress) if all teams don't have access.

Of course they can get in. They just have to have top-4 credentials like anyone else.

And no, Congress isn't going to get involved. When they got involved 15 years ago, the result was "maybe" access for the non-AQ for an NY6 game, no guarantees. 07-coffee3

How does a G5 team get 'top-4 credentials' when SOS is always thrown at them as why they performed well? A G5 team would have to go undefeated 2 years in a row, returning all 22 starters for second season, happening to beat a couple top 10 P5 teams during each season, plus having a couple top 25 G5 teams they beat in those seasons... and I doubt they would still get in . Issue is after season 1 the coaching staff leaves for a higher paying job.

No, the G5 will never get in a 4 spot playoff.
08-22-2018 03:31 AM
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va-eagle Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
If there were an 8 team playoff with a G5 autobid, there would be more eyeballs watching the CCG if it were a P5 vs G5 than P5 vs P5. Every P5 fan would be watching hoping the P5 team doesn't lose to a G5 team and every G5 fan would be watching hoping they get one on the P5 conferences.
08-22-2018 03:38 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
If expansion of the playoff is a must, I like the 6 team idea.

Take the P5 champions (based on who wins the CCG) then leave a wild card for the next best. That could be a wild card like a conference runner up, ND, or in a rare case like UCF being "undefeated".

The fact is no matter how many teams you expand the playoff to, the first team out is going to ***** about it. If you go with 6, you allow the 5 conference champs to get in plus one other. Fair to everyone, puts importance on the CCG. I can't see the conferences agreeing to expanding past 6.
08-22-2018 06:24 AM
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RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
Alright this could be a stupid reason, but I think if you can make the bidding work six might be ideal. In basketball the first round that really gets the "hype" is the Sweet Sixteen, right? So roughly: 16/350*130 ≈ 6. That tells me that with six teams you should have enough parity in competition where the games are 1.) actually good, 2.) high stakes.

Now prior to this I would have said you make it 12 seeds with each conference selecting one their members ranked in the top 25 as a representative (likely conference champion, but not necessarily) and then at large bids to fill in the rest. I still think this is the most "representative" option, but I can understand the hassle with extending the season by another week.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018 07:23 AM by McKinney.)
08-22-2018 07:22 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 09:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 05:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 05:25 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I think 6 teams definitely changes the 2014 National Champion (TCU>Ohio St).

Really? TCU lost to Baylor, who lost to Michigan State in the Cotton Bowl.

Ohio State was a beast at the end of that year.

TCU lost by 3 at Baylor when they gave up 24 in a row in the 4th. They also beat Ole Miss 42-3 who beat Alabama and was ranked #9.

Ohio State won the B1G and beat Alabama and Oregon, the SEC and PAC champs. TCU didn't even win their conference - can't come close to that.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018 07:24 AM by quo vadis.)
08-22-2018 07:23 AM
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RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
Ummm a 6team playoff does not equate to a P6 designation. It is still the P.5. It will become the P4 before it becomes the P6.

And sure last year MAY have gotten UCF in the tourney, but maybe not. They did have a great season for sure, but good luck getting into the tournament with anything less than 8 teams being invited.
08-22-2018 07:32 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 06:44 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 06:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 06:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 05:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The biggest thing that would be devalued if the conferences got autobids would be OOC games.

Other games would increase in value, and the number of games with increased value would be greater than the number of games with decreased value. Every game that affects the outcome of a P5 divisional race would become more important.

Not sure how. With the playoffs highly restricted right now, every single game is very important - nobody has ever made the playoffs with more than one loss of any kind.

In contrast, if all that matters is winning the conference, then heck, teams with 2 or 3 losses could easily get in, maybe 4.

You're saying that only games involving at least one team with fewer than 2 losses are important within the current format -- that's pretty much it.

In an 8-team playoff with autobids plus at least 2 available at-large spots, nearly all of those games will still matter, and a large number of additional games will also be important.

Yes, and in the NHL and NBA, since half the teams make the playoffs, even games among teams that are 38 - 38 can matter late in the season in terms of getting a playoff spot. But IMO that's just not very interesting.

IMO, the CFB season has plenty of meaningful games, it's just as you lose games, the goals for the season drop. First, let's face it - very few teams have legit hopes of making the playoffs at the start of the season, not because the format is biased but because they just aren't good enough. Purdue and Troy aren't missing the playoffs this year because of biased format, they just aren't going to be good enough. So it's no big deal to these teams what the format is.

Second, as teams that do have playoffs hopes lose, their expectations modulate. E.g., a team like Auburn starts the year at #9 with playoff hopes. Then they lose the opener to Washington, and then it's "well, if we run the table, we will win the SEC and make the playoffs anyway". Then if they lose to LSU, it's "well, we can still win the SEC and go to the Sugar Bowl", and if they lose to Ole Miss it becomes "well, if we beat #1 Alabama, we probably still make an NY6 as an at-large".

So there is still meaningful stuff to play for even if you get knocked out of playoffs.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018 07:37 AM by quo vadis.)
08-22-2018 07:36 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 01:01 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 12:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Perhaps the UCF National Championship claim was more eye opening than many thought--- I thought the following comments were quite surprising---

"I would now be open to six," Alvarez told CBS Sports. "Two byes [for the top two teams]. … Maybe give one spot to the … [Group of Five champion]."

Alvarez was referring to the assumption that a six-team bracket would necessitate giving first-round byes to the two highest- ranked teams. Any six-team bracket would almost certainly have to include an automatic spot for the best Group of Five champion. Last year, that was UCF.


https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...convinced/

So if the G-6 champion is 12-1 and ranked 13th they get the sixth spot? There will have to be some other hurdles to cross.

03-lmfao

The B1G must be concerned about getting at least one team into the playoffs on a consistent basis.
08-22-2018 07:44 AM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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RE: Should the Playoff Be Expanded To 6----CBS-Sports
(08-21-2018 03:14 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 02:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 02:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 01:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  6 teams is pointless. There's no good reason to "split the difference" between 4 and 8. If you're going to add another week to the playoff schedule, make it 8 teams. If another week is "too much" in the eyes of whomever makes these decisions, keep it at 4 teams.

Honestly---thats my preference. All P5 champs with an autobid. Top G5 champ with an autobid. Two wildcards. I know its not perfect---but it strikes the right balance between number of slots and time constraints and it provide reasonable access to every FBS team. Yes, the G5 would only have one slot for 65 teams---but at least there is a defined legitimate path to the playoff.

But ... of course they (G5) would not have that, because their rep would be picked committee-style just like the current playoff spots are.

As for the A5, so far, despite the fact that the PAC and Big 12 have missed the playoffs 50% of the time, and even the B1G has now missed, there has been absolutely zero drumbeat among them for a playoff expansion.

So far, at least, the A5 are fine with the concept that no team from their conference will make the playoffs in a given year.

One of the 5 G5 champs would get in every year. Thats a legit path that in no way currently exists. Given the brutality of the sport and the time/length constraints of any FBS playoff---its about the best that can realistically be done. The only option to get every champ in the playoff is 12-16 teams and thats not going to happen. 04-cheers

Why should G5 teams have an automatic bid, regardless of their credentials, when the A5 conferences have no such bid?

This...kind of. As a fan of a G5 school, I would like to see an 8-team playoff with no automatic bids. If we want in, we should have to produce a top 8 team.

To clarify. I don't want any automatic G5 bid unless there is an auto bid for the 5 A5 champs as mentioned above. i.e. all auto-bids or no auto-bids. I guess I could go either way. Auto-bids maintain the incentive to win your conference, but can potentially put in non top 8 teams.

I'd be down with no auto-bids if the committee could be trusted to put in the actual top 8. The eye test is overrated. In other words, don't leave UCF out last year in an 8-team scenario, and don't put in an Ohio State team in 2016 that didn't win their conference just so we can watch them get blanked in the playoff.
08-22-2018 08:10 AM
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