Good read. USC was instrumental in Arizona and Arizona State joining the PAC 10

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/29/4...onference/

1977 Alignment

PAC
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
California
Southern California
UCLA

WAC
Arizona
Arizona State
New Mexico
El Paso
Brigham Young
Utah
Colorado State
Wyoming

It seems the WAC’s retaliation was to invade Southern California with the addition of San Diego State, and the formation of the Holiday Bowl.

Hawaii and UNLV were both invited as well, with UNLV required to meet some stipulations found here: https://newspaperarchive.com/las-vegas-s...1977-p-23/

Tentative WAC start dates: 1978-SDSU, 1979-Hawaii, and 1980-UNLV

This article sheds light on what happened, including six of the eight UNLV-supporting presidents leaving for new positions elsewhere:

https://nshe.nevada.edu/wp-content/uploa...20NSHE.pdf

It seems Air Force sort of took UNLV’s spot, no doubt this was influenced by the mountain state schools.

*Also, BYU really took off after the departure of ASU.

(08-29-2018 09:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Good read. USC was instrumental in Arizona and Arizona State joining the PAC 10

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/29/4...onference/

Oh I love articles like these!

Interesting read. It helps to further explain why the USC band did what they did. During their halftime performance in the January 1977 Rose Bowl game they spelled out PAC-8 then morphed it into spelling PAC-10. This was part of how it was announced that Arizona and Arizona State were joining the conference.

I was the only person living in Arkansas that had a t-shirt that said "ADIOS WAC WELCOME PAC".

(08-30-2018 12:45 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Interesting read. It helps to further explain why the USC band did what they did. During their halftime performance in the January 1977 Rose Bowl game they spelled out PAC-8 then morphed it into spelling PAC-10. This was part of how it was announced that Arizona and Arizona State were joining the conference.

I was the only person living in Arkansas that had a t-shirt that said "ADIOS WAC WELCOME PAC".

Zona and ASU fan or you went to school there?

I never realized to what lengths the LA schools went to get the AZ schools in.

I also find it funny that Stanford always seems to be the one with their nose in the air when it comes to expansion. They are lucky the other CA schools are loyal to them or else they would have been left behind a long time ago.

(08-30-2018 07:15 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 12:45 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Interesting read. It helps to further explain why the USC band did what they did. During their halftime performance in the January 1977 Rose Bowl game they spelled out PAC-8 then morphed it into spelling PAC-10. This was part of how it was announced that Arizona and Arizona State were joining the conference.

I was the only person living in Arkansas that had a t-shirt that said "ADIOS WAC WELCOME PAC".

Zona and ASU fan or you went to school there?

UofA Wildcats and ASU Red Wolves fan, never cheer for ASU Sun Devils. Tucson born, Arkansas raised. Mom grew up in Tucson and attended UofA for a year, dad lived in one little Arkansas town before joining the Air Force eventually being stationed at Davis-Monthan. I lived in Tucson only a very short time and still have family there so I have gone back for visits. That t-shirt was red with blue lettering and the Wildcat face logo between the two lines.

(08-30-2018 07:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I never realized to what lengths the LA schools went to get the AZ schools in.

I also find it funny that Stanford always seems to be the one with their nose in the air when it comes to expansion. They are lucky the other CA schools are loyal to them or else they would have been left behind a long time ago.

Yeah, that's probably true. But Stanford does bring a little something to the conference, I think.

the day that the PAC 8 could have imploded. I imagine that had USC and UCLA withdrawn, they would have joined the WAC and the WAC today would be in the P5 instead of the PAC which I presume some members would have joined the WAC and the PAC would be basically what the MWC is today, the lower tier western conference in FBS.

(08-31-2018 11:19 AM)AntiG Wrote:  the day that the PAC 8 could have imploded. I imagine that had USC and UCLA withdrawn, they would have joined the WAC and the WAC today would be in the P5 instead of the PAC which I presume some members would have joined the WAC and the PAC would be basically what the MWC is today, the lower tier western conference in FBS.

Without USC and UCLA the PAC would have been DOA. Those schools likely would have taken the Rose Bowl with them.

Any USC/UCLA withdrawl would have been temporary until the remaining PAC presidents caved.

(08-31-2018 12:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 11:19 AM)AntiG Wrote:  the day that the PAC 8 could have imploded. I imagine that had USC and UCLA withdrawn, they would have joined the WAC and the WAC today would be in the P5 instead of the PAC which I presume some members would have joined the WAC and the PAC would be basically what the MWC is today, the lower tier western conference in FBS.

Without USC and UCLA the PAC would have been DOA. Those schools likely would have taken the Rose Bowl with them.

Any USC/UCLA withdrawl would have been temporary until the remaining PAC presidents caved.

Not like the league hadn't been down that path before, breaking up and reforming

(08-31-2018 12:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 11:19 AM)AntiG Wrote:  the day that the PAC 8 could have imploded. I imagine that had USC and UCLA withdrawn, they would have joined the WAC and the WAC today would be in the P5 instead of the PAC which I presume some members would have joined the WAC and the PAC would be basically what the MWC is today, the lower tier western conference in FBS.

Without USC and UCLA the PAC would have been DOA. Those schools likely would have taken the Rose Bowl with them.

Any USC/UCLA withdrawl would have been temporary until the remaining PAC presidents caved.

The withdraw could be temporary, or they could have simply founded a new conference with the AZ schools, handpicked what Pac schools they wanted to have with them, and written the conference bylaws to favor their needs.

(08-31-2018 02:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 12:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 11:19 AM)AntiG Wrote:  the day that the PAC 8 could have imploded. I imagine that had USC and UCLA withdrawn, they would have joined the WAC and the WAC today would be in the P5 instead of the PAC which I presume some members would have joined the WAC and the PAC would be basically what the MWC is today, the lower tier western conference in FBS.

Without USC and UCLA the PAC would have been DOA. Those schools likely would have taken the Rose Bowl with them.

Any USC/UCLA withdrawl would have been temporary until the remaining PAC presidents caved.

The withdraw could be temporary, or they could have simply founded a new conference with the AZ schools, handpicked what Pac schools they wanted to have with them, and written the conference bylaws to favor their needs.

That could have happened if the schools opposing USC dug their heels in. Ultimately, I think even if USC had not won the day that day for the Arizona schools, they would have eventually gotten their way and the PAC would be as we know it today.

Personally, I wish universities had greater freedom to form and disband conferences rather than all of these GORs and continuity rules. If a conference arrangement isn't working out for a group of schools they ought to be able to form a new conference and not have to worry about mbb tournament credits and autobids.

If this were the case I think C-USA would be split up and some other awkward conferences like the CAA would look much different. The way it stands now, a conference mate can put a gun to your head and make you accept an expansion school, and then turn around and bolt, leaving you permanently stuck with an institution no one wanted in the first place.

(08-31-2018 03:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The way it stands now, a conference mate can put a gun to your head and make you accept an expansion school, and then turn around and bolt, leaving you permanently stuck with an institution no one wanted in the first place.

That's a hypothetical possibility. Do you have any examples in mind where this actually happened?

(08-31-2018 04:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-31-2018 03:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The way it stands now, a conference mate can put a gun to your head and make you accept an expansion school, and then turn around and bolt, leaving you permanently stuck with an institution no one wanted in the first place.

That's a hypothetical possibility. Do you have any examples in mind where this actually happened?

ECU wanting ODU and Charlotte as C-USA members comes to mind. Had UTEP, Rice, USM, and UAB known they were going to be left in a conference with just them and Marshall then Marshall would have rejoined the MAC and the other 4 would rebuild C-USA into a regional footprint that better suited their needs.

(08-29-2018 09:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Good read. USC was instrumental in Arizona and Arizona State joining the PAC 10

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/29/4...onference/

It’s funny, the problems USC fought against in 1977 have returned in 2017 but no Hubbard exists to address it. The PAC not willing to admit Arizona and ASU echos the PAC standards today. Especially in CA, the PAC has become too elite and is divorced from the Fan base.

This fact was reinforced by my drive from Sac to Fresno where I intended to stop at a sports bar and watch my nephew who plays for USC. I couldn’t believe how hard it was to find a sports bar with the PAC-12 network. Most of the bar help had no idea what I was talking about. One bar had it on two TV’s but both TV’s were reserved by SEC fans. When I finally found a bar I watched USC and WSU on different TV’s with no other fans around. I can’t imagine this happening elsewhere in the country.

(08-29-2018 09:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Good read. USC was instrumental in Arizona and Arizona State joining the PAC 10

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/29/4...onference/

Funny that USC/UCLA have that much power. They still do today.

I just can't imagine Ohio State and Michigan pulling such a power move on the Big 10. Or Alabama and Florida pulling a power move on the SEC. There's simply too many other big power players in those conferences.

(09-02-2018 04:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 09:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Good read. USC was instrumental in Arizona and Arizona State joining the PAC 10

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/29/4...onference/

Funny that USC/UCLA have that much power. They still do today.

I just can't imagine Ohio State and Michigan pulling such a power move on the Big 10. Or Alabama and Florida pulling a power move on the SEC. There's simply too many other big power players in those conferences.

Good thing the PAC is protected by geography or they may have been poached like the BXII and ACC were.