Except for Navy.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-foo...1535634001

College football has an attendance problem. Average announced attendance in football’s top division dropped for the fourth consecutive year last year, declining 7.6% in four years. But schools’ internal records show that the sport’s attendance woes go far beyond that.

The average count of tickets scanned at home games—the number of fans who actually show up—is about 71% of the attendance you see in a box score, according to data from the 2017 season collected by The Wall Street Journal. In the Mid-American Conference, with less-prominent programs like Central Michigan and Toledo, teams’ scanned attendance numbers were 45% of announced attendance.

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When Arkansas hosted No. 21 Auburn, scanned attendance was more than 25,000 lower than announced attendance. Overall last season, Arkansas’s scanned home attendance was 58% of its announced attendance as the Razorbacks went 4-8. Nonetheless, Reynolds Razorback Stadium is reopening Saturday after a $160 million renovation that increased capacity by about 4,000. An Arkansas spokesman declined to comment.

Florida State, which won the 2013 national title, last season had a scanned attendance that was 57% of its announced attendance. FSU spokesman Rob Wilson blamed personnel and technical issues in scanning tickets and said, “We do not believe the difference is as large as the data appears to show.”

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Many schools take a generous approach in compiling announced attendance, by including ushers, security guards and even the guy at the concession stand who sells you a Coke. That partly explains how Purdue’s announced attendance last season spiked 13,433 per game—the largest jump in college football.

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Public attendance numbers are part of some schools’ identity. Michigan Stadium, the “Big House,” whose 107,601 capacity is the nation’s largest, still claims a streak of 100,000-plus attendance games dating back to 1975, even though two games last year showed fewer than 80,000 scanned tickets.

A Michigan spokesman said surges of fans at gates just before kickoff sometimes prompt workers to tear tickets rather than scanning them. Michigan counts the media, stadium workers and marching bands in its announced attendance.

Nebraska boasts a sellout streak that dates to the 1962 season. But during last year’s 4-8 record, there was an average gap of more than 18,000 per game between scanned and announced attendance—mostly no-shows, a spokesman said.

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Free tickets often are counted among attendance figures even if they’re never used. California, on the hook to repay the cost of a $321 million renovation for Memorial Stadium unveiled in 2012, gave away 57,108 tickets last season. That’s nearly an entire free game at the 62,467-seat stadium. About 35% of the free tickets were used, school officials say.

“Our sales and marketing team continues to look for more creative and unique ways to bring fans to Memorial Stadium,” said Joe Mulford, senior associate athletic director and chief revenue officer.

Not every school pumps up its attendance figures. Of the nearly 100 football programs that gave data to the Journal, just one used a turnstile count for its announced attendance: Navy.

Said athletic director Chet Gladchuk: “It is just the way we do business.”

I'm not at all an FSU defender, but I believe what their guy said. Drawing 57% of Doak's capacity would mean that they had 45,000 fans per game and from games I saw last year, that's simply not the case. They had lots of empty seats for sure but not 35,000 empties a game.

About FSU, eh, maybe. But of course they are going to offer up excuses. Just like Michigan did for their less than 80K crowds (still great crowds by the way).

everyone announces tickets sold/distributed. This is nothing new. Some schools announce way way more than actually go -- usf is one of those. Just one of those things. Unfortunately for USF TSA for some reason releases all of the info on them every game -- other schools don't have that problem.

This isnt a college football problem either, this is every sport in the country. Orlando city announced 25K to a game earlier this year -- I was there and there was probably 15K max.

(08-30-2018 10:12 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  everyone announces tickets sold/distributed. This is nothing new. Some schools announce way way more than actually go -- usf is one of those. Just one of those things. Unfortunately for USF TSA for some reason releases all of the info on them every game -- other schools don't have that problem.

This isnt a college football problem either, this is every sport in the country. Orlando city announced 25K to a game earlier this year -- I was there and there was probably 15K max.

Actually, if you read the article, they listed the top 10 culprits in inflating announced numbers and USF was NOT among them. Sorry for you to hear.

(08-30-2018 10:14 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:12 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  everyone announces tickets sold/distributed. This is nothing new. Some schools announce way way more than actually go -- usf is one of those. Just one of those things. Unfortunately for USF TSA for some reason releases all of the info on them every game -- other schools don't have that problem.

This isnt a college football problem either, this is every sport in the country. Orlando city announced 25K to a game earlier this year -- I was there and there was probably 15K max.

Actually, if you read the article, they listed the top 10 culprits in inflating announced numbers and USF was NOT among them. Sorry for you to hear.

sorry if I hurt your feelings my point was all schools announce paid/distributed, not butts in seats.

(08-30-2018 10:21 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:14 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:12 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  everyone announces tickets sold/distributed. This is nothing new. Some schools announce way way more than actually go -- usf is one of those. Just one of those things. Unfortunately for USF TSA for some reason releases all of the info on them every game -- other schools don't have that problem.

This isnt a college football problem either, this is every sport in the country. Orlando city announced 25K to a game earlier this year -- I was there and there was probably 15K max.

Actually, if you read the article, they listed the top 10 culprits in inflating announced numbers and USF was NOT among them. Sorry for you to hear.

sorry if I hurt your feelings my point was all schools announce paid/distributed, not butts in seats.

OK, then my bad. On that I agree with you. Some do inflate more than others, but all inflate to some degree. The MAC conference is the worst. Their butts in seats is 45% of what they announce, according to article.

scanned as a percentage of announced per the article USF is actually the 2nd best actual when compared to announced -- behind only Navy. So much for all the Memphis fans on here who say Memphis only announces actual butts in seats....

USF - 71% (31K announced, 22K actual)
Memphis - 54% (38K announced, 21K actual -- LOL)
EZU - 48% (38K announced, 17K actual -- wtf??)
Houston - 66% (28K announced, 18K actual)
Uconn - 70% (20K announced, 14K actual)
Navy - 100% (28K announced, 28K actual)
Cinci 54% (28K announced, 15K actual)

The rest weren't listed in the database. Embarrassing numbers if true but I think they must have made some mistakes or inconsistencies somewhere. Doesn't seem this bad when I watch on TV.

(08-30-2018 10:33 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  scanned as a percentage of announced per the article USF is actually the 2nd best actual when compared to announced -- behind only Navy. So much for all the Memphis fans on here who say Memphis only announces actual butts in seats....

USF - 71% (31K announced, 22K actual)
Memphis - 54% (38K announced, 21K actual -- LOL)
EZU - 48% (38K announced, 17K actual -- wtf??)
Houston - 66% (28K announced, 18K actual)
Uconn - 70% (20K announced, 14K actual)
Navy - 100% (28K announced, 28K actual)
Cinci 54% (28K announced, 15K actual)

The rest weren't listed in the database. Embarrassing numbers if true but I think they must have made some mistakes or inconsistencies somewhere. Doesn't seem this bad when I watch on TV.

Last time I watched USF play at ECU on TV I was shocked at how many empty seats there were. I have no idea what they announced but I remember thinking that there were nowhere near the amount of butts in seats that they announced. This is not picking on ECU, just one example that came to mind.

I did not see this chart linked in the article, where did you get it from?

What accounts for Memphis announcing something like 7k attendance during that tropical storm Harvey game last year when they sold 22k season tickets unless Memphis was counting actual butts in seats?

(08-30-2018 10:46 AM)cotton1991 Wrote:  What accounts for Memphis announcing something like 7k attendance during that tropical storm Harvey game last year when they sold 22k season tickets unless Memphis was counting actual butts in seats?

great question Memphis announced 10K. I think the answer lies somewhere inbetween memphis doesn't have 22K season tickets in 2017 and the WSJ got some bad info -- although all of the information was provided directly from Memphis so I am not sure.

(08-30-2018 10:40 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:33 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  scanned as a percentage of announced per the article USF is actually the 2nd best actual when compared to announced -- behind only Navy. So much for all the Memphis fans on here who say Memphis only announces actual butts in seats....

USF - 71% (31K announced, 22K actual)
Memphis - 54% (38K announced, 21K actual -- LOL)
EZU - 48% (38K announced, 17K actual -- wtf??)
Houston - 66% (28K announced, 18K actual)
Uconn - 70% (20K announced, 14K actual)
Navy - 100% (28K announced, 28K actual)
Cinci 54% (28K announced, 15K actual)

The rest weren't listed in the database. Embarrassing numbers if true but I think they must have made some mistakes or inconsistencies somewhere. Doesn't seem this bad when I watch on TV.

Last time I watched USF play at ECU on TV I was shocked at how many empty seats there were. I have no idea what they announced but I remember thinking that there were nowhere near the amount of butts in seats that they announced. This is not picking on ECU, just one example that came to mind.

I did not see this chart linked in the article, where did you get it from?

their database is listed on the left side of the page. I just typed in names of all the teams and it came up.

Aren't we missing the point here? The more important number is the difference between announced attendance and sold tickets. Butts in seats is irrelevant.

If I run a gym, I'm more focused on how many memberships I've sold, not how many of them show up to work out.

I could care less about overall attendance. It’s about atmosphere.

Right now, USF at RayJay doesn’t have it. You need about 50K in that stadium for it to feel like a real college football game. But it is what it is. We live in Florida and attendance is a problem for most teams (Rays, Marlins, Panthers, etc.)

This announced/actual attendance obsession has been going on for a while and even UCF fans complained about it years ago. Essentially it is Sentinal Propaganda and has molded an entire generation of fans to be obsessed with it.

Here’s a 7 year old article from UCF.

https://today.ucf.edu/ucf-football-taking-attendance/

“Critics of UCF like to jump on the attendance when it comes to “announced attendance” against “actual attendance.” Some argue that UCF may announce a crowd far less than the actual number inside the stadium. So does everyone else in college football…….

One local newspaper seems to thrive on “announced attendance” and enjoys criticizing the slight drop in UCF’s per game turnout. I get it. It’s a little pet peeve they have. I do have a question for that paper though. Is “announced circulation” different from “actual circulation?” Are all those papers left in front of hotel room doors that never get read, is that like a ticket to football game never used? “

(08-30-2018 10:51 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:40 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:33 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  scanned as a percentage of announced per the article USF is actually the 2nd best actual when compared to announced -- behind only Navy. So much for all the Memphis fans on here who say Memphis only announces actual butts in seats....

USF - 71% (31K announced, 22K actual)
Memphis - 54% (38K announced, 21K actual -- LOL)
EZU - 48% (38K announced, 17K actual -- wtf??)
Houston - 66% (28K announced, 18K actual)
Uconn - 70% (20K announced, 14K actual)
Navy - 100% (28K announced, 28K actual)
Cinci 54% (28K announced, 15K actual)

The rest weren't listed in the database. Embarrassing numbers if true but I think they must have made some mistakes or inconsistencies somewhere. Doesn't seem this bad when I watch on TV.

Last time I watched USF play at ECU on TV I was shocked at how many empty seats there were. I have no idea what they announced but I remember thinking that there were nowhere near the amount of butts in seats that they announced. This is not picking on ECU, just one example that came to mind.

I did not see this chart linked in the article, where did you get it from?

their database is listed on the left side of the page. I just typed in names of all the teams and it came up.

OK, I see it now, thanks.

(08-30-2018 10:59 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  Aren't we missing the point here? The more important number is the difference between announced attendance and sold tickets. Butts in seats is irrelevant.

If I run a gym, I'm more focused on how many memberships I've sold, not how many of them show up to work out.

Well I agree with you. This is just to refute the notion that I have heard by basically every fan base that "our school uses butts in seats as announced attendance". A complete and total lie. By everyone (except for Navy).

(08-30-2018 10:40 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:33 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  scanned as a percentage of announced per the article USF is actually the 2nd best actual when compared to announced -- behind only Navy. So much for all the Memphis fans on here who say Memphis only announces actual butts in seats....

USF - 71% (31K announced, 22K actual)
Memphis - 54% (38K announced, 21K actual -- LOL)
EZU - 48% (38K announced, 17K actual -- wtf??)
Houston - 66% (28K announced, 18K actual)
Uconn - 70% (20K announced, 14K actual)
Navy - 100% (28K announced, 28K actual)
Cinci 54% (28K announced, 15K actual)

The rest weren't listed in the database. Embarrassing numbers if true but I think they must have made some mistakes or inconsistencies somewhere. Doesn't seem this bad when I watch on TV.

Last time I watched USF play at ECU on TV I was shocked at how many empty seats there were. I have no idea what they announced but I remember thinking that there were nowhere near the amount of butts in seats that they announced. This is not picking on ECU, just one example that came to mind.

I did not see this chart linked in the article, where did you get it from?

ECU sold the tickets. Nobody used their tickets because they sucked.

(08-30-2018 10:09 AM)The Knight Time Wrote:  I'm not at all an FSU defender, but I believe what their guy said. Drawing 57% of Doak's capacity would mean that they had 45,000 fans per game and from games I saw last year, that's simply not the case. They had lots of empty seats for sure but not 35,000 empties a game.

When I was at FSU, I was responsible for reporting attendance for all olympic sports. I was told to essentially guesstimate rather than count. If it was pretty obviously a handful, it wasn't a big deal, but I'm not going to stand there and count 600+ people.

(08-30-2018 11:00 AM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  I could care less about overall attendance. It’s about atmosphere.

Right now, USF at RayJay doesn’t have it. You need about 50K in that stadium for it to feel like a real college football game. But it is what it is. We live in Florida and attendance is a problem for most teams (Rays, Marlins, Panthers, etc.)

This announced/actual attendance obsession has been going on for a while and even UCF fans complained about it years ago. Essentially it is Sentinal Propaganda and has molded an entire generation of fans to be obsessed with it.

Here’s a 7 year old article from UCF.

https://today.ucf.edu/ucf-football-taking-attendance/

“Critics of UCF like to jump on the attendance when it comes to “announced attendance” against “actual attendance.” Some argue that UCF may announce a crowd far less than the actual number inside the stadium. So does everyone else in college football…….

One local newspaper seems to thrive on “announced attendance” and enjoys criticizing the slight drop in UCF’s per game turnout. I get it. It’s a little pet peeve they have. I do have a question for that paper though. Is “announced circulation” different from “actual circulation?” Are all those papers left in front of hotel room doors that never get read, is that like a ticket to football game never used? “

Joey Knight is the only guy in the entire country fixated on actual attendance. I've never seen another beat writer anywhere so fixated on the difference between actual/announced. Heck, I don't think anyone anywhere even cares...they just go with the announced. Unfortunately for USF, Joey Knight also happens to be the USF beat writer. I don't remember Greg Auman being this bad.

I've seen a lot of Miami games where they announced 50K+ and there were flies there. Yet in the paper, 50K is what they went with.

(08-30-2018 11:04 AM)DowdyPirate Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:40 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 10:33 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  scanned as a percentage of announced per the article USF is actually the 2nd best actual when compared to announced -- behind only Navy. So much for all the Memphis fans on here who say Memphis only announces actual butts in seats....

USF - 71% (31K announced, 22K actual)
Memphis - 54% (38K announced, 21K actual -- LOL)
EZU - 48% (38K announced, 17K actual -- wtf??)
Houston - 66% (28K announced, 18K actual)
Uconn - 70% (20K announced, 14K actual)
Navy - 100% (28K announced, 28K actual)
Cinci 54% (28K announced, 15K actual)

The rest weren't listed in the database. Embarrassing numbers if true but I think they must have made some mistakes or inconsistencies somewhere. Doesn't seem this bad when I watch on TV.

Last time I watched USF play at ECU on TV I was shocked at how many empty seats there were. I have no idea what they announced but I remember thinking that there were nowhere near the amount of butts in seats that they announced. This is not picking on ECU, just one example that came to mind.

I did not see this chart linked in the article, where did you get it from?

ECU sold the tickets. Nobody used their tickets because they sucked.

Yes, I know that. I will say when you are going good, you still have one of the best atmospheres anywhere, regardless of how many actual people are there.