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How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
They're a blue-blood as long as they still keep getting 100,000 people to watch them play a MAC school.

Same thing with Tennessee, in my mind.
09-08-2018 04:45 PM
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ncbeta Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
I hate Michigan as much as the next guy, but any program that consistently pulls 90-100k fans and top 10 recruiting classes is a blueblood regardless of game play.
09-08-2018 08:47 PM
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Post: #23
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
What makes a blueblood isn't the immediate short term results. It's the money, and what that money can buy.

Can you break ground on a new 9-figure sports facility every 1 to 3 years?
Can you summon up $10m in cash on short notice to fire an entire football staff?
Can you summon up another $10m in cash on short notice to hire a new name brand staff?
Is your .edu President willing to play ball on giving carte blanche to the AD for academic exemptions?
Does your .edu have the patsy majors to hide non-academically rigorous players in?
And, when you're talking about the serious big name Top 30 or so recruits, the people that are NFL capable from the jump .... do you have the network of bag men to grease the skids with the coaches and the families and the players?

Now, money isn't a guarantee obviously. But it will eventually yield results if you keep shoveling it. The Boston Red Sox have a bench loaded with players that would be starters on more than half of the MLB rosters. How do they do that? They are literally paying $100m+ more than an average MLB team for their roster. The Yankees are like Michigan in your exception. But notice you don't keep the Yankees down forever do you? Eventually enough money is thrown around that problems are solved or personnel are churned over until those problems are solved.

Eventually this will all have to reach a breaking point. The NCAA is too cowardly and now that we have a CFP ran by TV and the P5 too weak to regulate the problem. The TV money is only inflating the parallel universe bubble. The reality is this is no longer a sport played by amateur student athletes. It's a farm league for the NFL and academics and the competitive landscape are mere afterthoughts if thoughts at all. If it's going to be a feeder for the pros, you might as well then run it like a pro farm league. Salary caps. Staff caps. Facilities caps. Etc. Even Formula-1, the previous gold standard for "he who writes the biggest check wins" has some structured limits now. Until that distant time when sanity is restored, enjoy everybody becoming a bigger and bigger whore for paychecks and Fuhrer Mickey playing puppetmaster to the entire sport.
09-08-2018 09:50 PM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
Their fans are blue bloods only because their fans freeze at games. The team is not and has not been very good for a long time.
09-09-2018 03:02 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
Tennessee is in this club too
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 09:26 AM by Gamecock.)
09-09-2018 08:21 AM
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Post: #26
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-08-2018 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Michigan is a permanent blue blood.

Look at Notre Dame since Lou Holtz left. And they are still the most valuable program in college football. And its been over 20 years. If they had gone 6-6 in 2012 it would still be the same.

It takes way over 20 years. And it takes more than mediocre seasons. Oklahoma had a losing record in the 8 years before Stoops took them to an MNC in 2000. Alabama from 1997-2007 had a worse streak than Michigan. The only bluebloods who have really been downgraded are the Ivies and Minnesota. Maybe Tennessee was a blue blood in the 60s and they got downgraded from king to prince.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/sch...index.html

2017 Ind 10 3 0
2016 Ind 4 8 0
2015 Ind 10 3 0
2014 Ind 8 5 0
2013 Ind 9 4 0
2012 Ind 12 1 0
2011 Ind 8 5 0
2010 Ind 8 5 0
2009 Ind 6 6 0
2008 Ind 7 6 0
2007 Ind 3 9 0
2006 Ind 10 3 0
2005 Ind 9 3 0
2004 Ind 6 6 0
2003 Ind 5 7 0
2002 Ind 10 3 0
2001 Ind 5 6 0
2000 Ind 9 3 0
1999 Ind 5 7 0
1998 Ind 9 3 0
1997 Ind 7 6 0
09-09-2018 09:19 AM
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Post: #27
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-08-2018 11:46 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Michigan is a permanent blue blood.

Depends on how many teams are blue bloods. Over Miami, Penn State, Florida State, Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, USC, Nebraska? Nope.

Yes, the last 20 years matter. Michigan has exactly 1 untied conference championship. They have 1 national championship in the last 60 years.

Clemson is not and has not ever been a blue blood any more than Oregon who had a better streak than Clemson (except for the title).
09-09-2018 09:21 AM
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ncbeta Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-09-2018 09:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 11:46 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Michigan is a permanent blue blood.

Depends on how many teams are blue bloods. Over Miami, Penn State, Florida State, Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, USC, Nebraska? Nope.

Yes, the last 20 years matter. Michigan has exactly 1 untied conference championship. They have 1 national championship in the last 60 years.

Clemson is not and has not ever been a blue blood any more than Oregon who had a better streak than Clemson (except for the title).

Titles matter.
09-09-2018 11:09 AM
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Post: #29
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-09-2018 11:09 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 09:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 11:46 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Michigan is a permanent blue blood.

Depends on how many teams are blue bloods. Over Miami, Penn State, Florida State, Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, USC, Nebraska? Nope.

Yes, the last 20 years matter. Michigan has exactly 1 untied conference championship. They have 1 national championship in the last 60 years.

Clemson is not and has not ever been a blue blood any more than Oregon who had a better streak than Clemson (except for the title).

Titles matter.

BYU, TCU, SMU, Maryland and Texas A&M have titles.
Clemson is not close to a blue blood. Neither are BYU, TCU, SMU, Maryland and A&M.
09-09-2018 11:14 AM
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Post: #30
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
If you look at the AP poll by decade, Clemson has been in the top 20 only ONE time in their history-in the 80s-when they won their previous title. They probably will make it this decade. 2 decades in the top 20 isn't close to being a blueblood. And their best so far was #10 in the 80s.

Contrast that with Tennessee who is generally not considered a blueblood now. They have finished 4,5,6,8,15 and 15 in those by decade AP polls.
09-09-2018 11:23 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-09-2018 08:21 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Tennessee isnin this club too

and Nebraska
09-09-2018 11:51 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #32
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
I need to point this out again because it’s a pet peeve of mine: the definition of “blue blood” is that its wealth was secured a long time ago, which means the whole premise of poor recent performance taking that status away is completely wrong. Jeff Bezos is currently the richest man in the world, but he’s NOT a blue blood because his wealth was gained relatively recently. The Rockefeller scions, on the other hand, are blue bloods even if they have a fraction of the net worth of Bezos. Ultimately, Bezos will never be a blue blood in the way the Rockerfellers are even if he’s actually more successful.

So, if you want to say that a program is more or less “successful” or even “elite” based on recent performance, then that’s fine. However, please please please apply the definition of “blue blood” correctly or don’t use it at all. “Blue blood” means status that was achieved in the old leather helmet days and it’s a status that will never go away. Trying to use recent records to define whether a school is a blue blood is the basis of an oxymoron - recent success is meaningless for blue blood status (hence the way that blue blood families look down at “new money”).
09-09-2018 11:26 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #33
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-09-2018 09:19 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Michigan is a permanent blue blood.

Look at Notre Dame since Lou Holtz left. And they are still the most valuable program in college football. And its been over 20 years. If they had gone 6-6 in 2012 it would still be the same.

It takes way over 20 years. And it takes more than mediocre seasons. Oklahoma had a losing record in the 8 years before Stoops took them to an MNC in 2000. Alabama from 1997-2007 had a worse streak than Michigan. The only bluebloods who have really been downgraded are the Ivies and Minnesota. Maybe Tennessee was a blue blood in the 60s and they got downgraded from king to prince.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/sch...index.html

2017 Ind 10 3 0
2016 Ind 4 8 0
2015 Ind 10 3 0
2014 Ind 8 5 0
2013 Ind 9 4 0
2012 Ind 12 1 0
2011 Ind 8 5 [0
2010 Ind 8 5 0
2009 Ind 6 6 0
2008 Ind 7 6 0
2007 Ind 3 9 0
2006 Ind 10 3 0
2005 Ind 9 3 0
2004 Ind 6 6 0
2003 Ind 5 7 0
2002 Ind 10 3 0
2001 Ind 5 6 0
2000 Ind 9 3 0
1999 Ind 5 7 0
1998 Ind 9 3 0
1997 Ind 7 6 0


ND has double digit wins in three of the last six seasons, including a 12-0 perfect regular season and title game appearance in 2012.

The Irish have two ten win seasons in the last three years.

More recently, ND is 12-3 in its last 15 games (a one point loss to Georgia and road losses to Miami and Stanford).

Since 2011 under Brian Kelly, ND has become much more of a consistent (12, 9, 8, 10, 10 wins) winner (except for that putrid 2016 4-8 season).

That is more of a recent pulse than Michigan, in my opinion. (ND has beaten Michigan the last two games, with the combined score being 55-17).

Also, ND has had nine and ten win seasons every couple of years or so in the past 20 years, which keeps the stadium full, hopes alive, gets ratings and keeps the program in the spotlight.

Where the Irish have failed is to win a title, get into the playoffs and have consistent double digit win seasons, back to back or in a row.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 06:57 AM by TerryD.)
09-10-2018 06:45 AM
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Post: #34
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-08-2018 08:50 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  A lot has been made about Harbaugh’s 9-9 posting over his last 18 games or Michigan’s 17 game road losing streak at ranked teams since 2006.

But how does Michigan stack up against its peers over 11 seasons (starting 2008)?

1) Ohio State 112
2) Wisconsin 101
3) Michigan State 93
4) Penn State 89
5) Nebraska 85
6) Iowa 82
7) Northwestern 77
8) Michigan 74

Michigan is a bottom half B1G program under the 11-, 12-, & 14-team B1G alignments over 11 years.

Michigan is 1-9 against Brutus and 2-8 against Sparty over this span. For context, Michigan St had 8 wins between 1970-2007.

As long as they continue to recruit and sign 4 & 5 star talent, they'll continue to be a blue blood.

Whether the coaches develop those players and WIN with them is a totally different argument.

That being said, it they start to falter on recruiting, continue to lose to rivals and "power" programs, and finish middle pf the pack in the B1G East, they could go from Royal Blue to Periwinkle in a hurry.

On the opposite side, from what I saw Saturday, Scott Frost looks to have the Huskers on the path back to "royalty"....
09-10-2018 07:03 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
Michigan will always be a blue blood. They are the Big 10. Their biggest rival is Notre dame. Ohio State and Michigan State have a greater view of their "rivalry" with Michigan than the other way around. Michigan is becoming a harder job because of demographics. Detroit is getting smaller, Michigan State is competitive, it's hard to get kids out of Ohio who have strong loyalties to the Buckeyes, it's hard to get Florida kids to play in the cold. Adding Texas to the Big 10 would help revive programs like Michigan and Nebraska.
09-10-2018 08:04 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #36
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-10-2018 08:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Michigan will always be a blue blood. They are the Big 10. Their biggest rival is Notre dame. Ohio State and Michigan State have a greater view of their "rivalry" with Michigan than the other way around. Michigan is becoming a harder job because of demographics. Detroit is getting smaller, Michigan State is competitive, it's hard to get kids out of Ohio who have strong loyalties to the Buckeyes, it's hard to get Florida kids to play in the cold. Adding Texas to the Big 10 would help revive programs like Michigan and Nebraska.

This thread is the lowest-IQ thread I've ever seen around here.

It's like asking, for basketball, "how long will North Carolina be a blue blood"?

The answer is: "As long as there is such a thing as college basketball". And ditto for Michigan in football.

And wins/losses on the field have zero to do with it.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 08:07 AM by quo vadis.)
09-10-2018 08:07 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-10-2018 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 08:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Michigan will always be a blue blood. They are the Big 10. Their biggest rival is Notre dame. Ohio State and Michigan State have a greater view of their "rivalry" with Michigan than the other way around. Michigan is becoming a harder job because of demographics. Detroit is getting smaller, Michigan State is competitive, it's hard to get kids out of Ohio who have strong loyalties to the Buckeyes, it's hard to get Florida kids to play in the cold. Adding Texas to the Big 10 would help revive programs like Michigan and Nebraska.

This thread is the lowest-IQ thread I've ever seen around here.

It's like asking, for basketball, "how long will North Carolina be a blue blood"?

The answer is: "As long as there is such a thing as college basketball". And ditto for Michigan in football.

And wins/losses on the field have zero to do with it.

Exactly. People kept asking me all weekend if Harbaugh would get fired and I said "heck no". Who are you going to replace him with? Harbaugh is building the program, as soon as Urban burns out again(IMO in the next 2 years) Michigan will be back.
09-10-2018 08:21 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #38
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-10-2018 08:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Michigan will always be a blue blood. They are the Big 10. Their biggest rival is Notre dame. Ohio State and Michigan State have a greater view of their "rivalry" with Michigan than the other way around. Michigan is becoming a harder job because of demographics. Detroit is getting smaller, Michigan State is competitive, it's hard to get kids out of Ohio who have strong loyalties to the Buckeyes, it's hard to get Florida kids to play in the cold. Adding Texas to the Big 10 would help revive programs like Michigan and Nebraska.

I agree that it's a more one-sided rivalry between Michigan and Michigan State, but Ohio State is very clearly the biggest rival for Michigan and vice versa. There's certainly a lot of Michigan hatred for Notre Dame, but it's sort of a weird "We all know that this is a huge rivalry where we want definitely to kill each other but we don't want to publicly admit that we care about them too much because that will give the other team some leverage over us" vibe for both Michigan and ND. (As a college football fan, I personally wish both schools would get over themselves and play their game every year again. The scene at the opener this year is what college football is all about. The posturing by both schools in scheduling that series (or lack thereof) is simply fueled by arrogance on both sides.)

In contrast, the Michigan hate for Ohio State is a legit all-encompassing 24/7/365 rivalry. "Ohio State S*cks* T-shirts and similarly-themed gear will be worn all year in Ann Arbor. Michigan fans don't hold back on that front.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 08:31 AM by Frank the Tank.)
09-10-2018 08:28 AM
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Post: #39
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-10-2018 08:21 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 08:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Michigan will always be a blue blood. They are the Big 10. Their biggest rival is Notre dame. Ohio State and Michigan State have a greater view of their "rivalry" with Michigan than the other way around. Michigan is becoming a harder job because of demographics. Detroit is getting smaller, Michigan State is competitive, it's hard to get kids out of Ohio who have strong loyalties to the Buckeyes, it's hard to get Florida kids to play in the cold. Adding Texas to the Big 10 would help revive programs like Michigan and Nebraska.

This thread is the lowest-IQ thread I've ever seen around here.

It's like asking, for basketball, "how long will North Carolina be a blue blood"?

The answer is: "As long as there is such a thing as college basketball". And ditto for Michigan in football.

And wins/losses on the field have zero to do with it.

Exactly. People kept asking me all weekend if Harbaugh would get fired and I said "heck no". Who are you going to replace him with? Harbaugh is building the program, as soon as Urban burns out again(IMO in the next 2 years) Michigan will be back.

Maybe, maybe not.

tOSU will always be tOSU. Might not be a top 3 program, but will still be a top 10. Penn State isn't going anywhere and neither is MSU. The road to the top might be a bit longer and more treacherous than Michigan might want to admit.

As for Khaki pants, this is year 4. If he doesn't have the program back to competing for the title by the end of this year, I think it's fair to start questioning. The string isn't nearly as long as it used it used to be for most major programs. If he hasn't returned the program to the promised land by the end of year 5, he'll be on the hot seat.
09-10-2018 08:31 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #40
RE: How long can Michigan go before it’s no longer a blueblood?
(09-10-2018 08:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 08:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Michigan will always be a blue blood. They are the Big 10. Their biggest rival is Notre dame. Ohio State and Michigan State have a greater view of their "rivalry" with Michigan than the other way around. Michigan is becoming a harder job because of demographics. Detroit is getting smaller, Michigan State is competitive, it's hard to get kids out of Ohio who have strong loyalties to the Buckeyes, it's hard to get Florida kids to play in the cold. Adding Texas to the Big 10 would help revive programs like Michigan and Nebraska.

I agree that it's a more one-sided rivalry between Michigan and Michigan State, but Ohio State is very clearly the biggest rival for Michigan and vice versa. There's certainly a lot of Michigan hatred for Notre Dame, but it's sort of a weird "We all know that this is a huge rivalry where we want definitely to kill each other but we don't want to publicly admit that we care about them too much because that will give the other team some leverage over us" vibe for both Michigan and ND. (As a college football fan, I personally wish both schools would get over themselves and play their game every year again. The scene at the opener this year is what college football is all about. The posturing by both schools in scheduling that series (or lack thereof) is simply fueled by arrogance on both sides.)

In contrast, the Michigan hate for Ohio State is a legit all-encompassing 24/7/365 rivalry. "Ohio State S*cks* T-shirts and similarly-themed gear will be worn all year in Ann Arbor. Michigan fans don't hold back on that front.

Yes, Ohio State is obviously Michigan's biggest rival, their ancestral rival - though many don't know that Michigan played Notre Dame 10 years before they first played Ohio State.

Notre Dame is in a special category because they are, well, special. When Michigan plays Notre Dame, I'm sure they want to win that game as much as they want to beat Ohio State, but it's not the same because it's not home and away every single year kind of thing.

As for Notre Dame, it's the same kind of situation: As badly as they want to beat Michigan, USC is their biggest rival, their ancestral rival so to speak.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 08:37 AM by quo vadis.)
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