For the first time in years as a Nashville citizen, I am actually excited to watch Vanderbilt football because they are playing Notre Dame. To me, college football is at its best when peers compete against peers. As college football is figuring itself out in terms of media rights, CTE, and game-day experiences for fans, consider the following.

As GORs are up for expiration in the coming years, is it a viable idea for the premier private schools of the P5 to develop a hybrid agreement like Notre Dame for football? In my opinion, the premier private schools include Stanford, USC, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Duke. These schools meet the following important criteria:

1. 80 million+ in athletic revenue
2. Consensus top 25 academic schools in the nation regardless of who is ranking
3. Established relationships with a power conference
4. Located in or near major markets that are easily accessible by plane for teams and alumni fans.

My proposal is that these six premier private schools associate and play each other in 5 regular season games and continue a 5 game rotation with their existing P5 conferences just like what Notre Dame has with the ACC. They would still reap the benefits of all other associations because the PAC, BIG, SEC, and ACC covet the academic prestige and private school reporting restrictions that protect their interests. This will also help these schools to establish more camaraderie with each other and produce interesting and relevant matchups of national interest.

From my point of view, these six schools only have one must keep rivalry outside of each other and inside their existing conferences that they could negotiate to be protected as annual: Stanford with Cal, USC with UCLA, Northwestern with Illinois, Vanderbilt with Tennessee, and Duke with UNC. Notre Dame would likely be fine without protecting an ACC annual rival, but they could choose one if they wanted (Pitt or BC?). Each school would still have two completely open games to schedule each year, so they could make it work with all of their rivals.

Historically, Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, and Vanderbilt have been afterthoughts caught in the mix of their conference schedules. I think they would especially be thrilled with this arrangement, and Notre Dame and USC would benefit from building consistent rivalries with their truest peers. This arrangement also gives them excellent data points across the major conferences for college football playoff consideration, so at least the top dog of this group would likely emerge as a serious candidate for CFP inclusion. What do you all think?

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

But it feels like you think that the student athletes for those premier private schools are somehow different from the student athletes at public schools.

I can assure you, personally knowing 3 people that attended Notre Dame, Stanford, and Duke to play football .. those kids are just like the kids that play for Kentucky, Alabama, or Ohio State. They would have zero shot at getting into the schools they got into, had they applied as regular students. Even taking into account their minority status.

(09-15-2018 12:45 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

But it feels like you think that the student athletes for those premier private schools are somehow different from the student athletes at public schools.

I can assure you, personally knowing 3 people that attended Notre Dame, Stanford, and Duke to play football .. those kids are just like the kids that play for Kentucky, Alabama, or Ohio State. They would have zero shot at getting into the schools they got into, had they applied as regular students. Even taking into account their minority status.

I agree about the student athletes, but the culture and missions of the schools themselves and the alumni are certainly different. Not good or bad, better or worse... just different. The hybrid model proposed allows these 6 premier private schools to access their best possible culture, which is their existing conferences as well as with each other.

As far as what is trying to be accomplished, it is the exact reason why Notre Dame negotiated the deal in the first place:

1. Continued, uninhibited access as a P5 conference partner in all non-football sports, all academic connections, and all other benefits of a super-regional affiliation with major academic institutions.
2. Flexibility for the front porch of many major universities, which is football. As you probably know, football games are like a homecoming weekend between schools, and major institutional players build relationships, make alliances, and enhance the recruitment opportunities for every facet of their universities. A scheduled opportunity for USC, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Duke power players to meet benefits the university's strategic goals, financial bottom line, and sharing of human and academic resources that serve the communities with the ultimate research outcomes of these schools.
3. The hybrid alliance puts these leading institutions in a power position where they are not beholden to the same level of influence as their bottom rung P5 conference members. Would anyone contend that Notre Dame is missing out on any advantages of the ACC with their deal? No, and if anything, they are the top dog because they have the ability to control most of their football decisions and have clear cut contracts on when they can walk if the relationship ever sours.

I could go on, but the 5 schools I listed along with Notre Dame should realize that they do not need to stay entrenched with the often petty and short sighted aims of their conferences when it comes to rights deals and football related decisions. The PAC, SEC, BIG, and ACC will bend over backwards to stay in association with these 6 schools; they should get together and play this card to their benefit.

This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

(09-15-2018 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

Yes, good point, Muskie, and I thought about that. I think if you add any more to these 6 premier schools, you risk it becoming its own conference. In that case, the TV money and other revenue stream factors become too much to make such a move financially viable, and I still think that these 6 schools would want their primary conference to stay intact for sports other than football (again, exactly like Notre Dame right now in the ACC). I think Miami and TCU would be the next two in line for this particular hybrid model, but neither are at the truly elite academic level of the other six. Syracuse and Boston College would likely also make an argument, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

(09-15-2018 02:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

Yes, good point, Muskie, and I thought about that. I think if you add any more to these 6 premier schools, you risk it becoming its own conference. In that case, the TV money and other revenue stream factors become too much to make such a move financially viable, and I still think that these 6 schools would want their primary conference to stay intact for sports other than football (again, exactly like Notre Dame right now in the ACC). I think Miami and TCU would be the next two in line for this particular hybrid model, but neither are at the truly elite academic level of the other six. Syracuse and Boston College would likely also make an argument, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I don't think these schools' primary conferences are going to permit them to stay for Olympic sports. I think they will almost have to exist as their own exclusive, academic minded private school league. With great cities like LA, the Bay Area, Houston, New Orleans, Chicagoland, Nashville, and NC's research triangle they are going to have no problem getting great regional non-conference games.

(09-15-2018 02:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 02:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

Yes, good point, Muskie, and I thought about that. I think if you add any more to these 6 premier schools, you risk it becoming its own conference. In that case, the TV money and other revenue stream factors become too much to make such a move financially viable, and I still think that these 6 schools would want their primary conference to stay intact for sports other than football (again, exactly like Notre Dame right now in the ACC). I think Miami and TCU would be the next two in line for this particular hybrid model, but neither are at the truly elite academic level of the other six. Syracuse and Boston College would likely also make an argument, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I don't think these schools' primary conferences are going to permit them to stay for Olympic sports. I think they will almost have to exist as their own exclusive, academic minded private school league. With great cities like LA, the Bay Area, Houston, New Orleans, Chicagoland, Nashville, and NC's research triangle they are going to have no problem getting great regional non-conference games.

It would be an interesting power play either way, for sure. I don't think anyone would ultimately want disassociation, and there is already precedence with Notre Dame and the ACC. I agree that it probably took a school with the cache of Notre Dame to inaugurate such an idea, but from what I can tell, it has been crickets as far as controversy or angst from ACC members and fans from the arrangement. On the contrary, most people on both sides seem to enjoy the benefits. Of course, these six schools would not get a full conference payout since they are not full football participants, but is anyone with a big picture conference or national lens really going to revolt because USC plays Washington State every three years instead of every two years? The match-ups of the greatest significance stay intact, which is no small feat considering the 70ish schools of various levels of prowess who think they should be in conference with these cream of the crop schools.

As for this group growing to a freestanding conference from coast to coast, I just don't see it as economically viable for all sports. Regionalism is still important for consistent athletic rivalries because of the overlap of fans and culture. The AAC is trying this now in all sports, and it just feels completely disjointed. I enjoy your feedback and thoughts, Muskie... it helps to critique all scenarios!

(09-15-2018 02:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 02:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

Yes, good point, Muskie, and I thought about that. I think if you add any more to these 6 premier schools, you risk it becoming its own conference. In that case, the TV money and other revenue stream factors become too much to make such a move financially viable, and I still think that these 6 schools would want their primary conference to stay intact for sports other than football (again, exactly like Notre Dame right now in the ACC). I think Miami and TCU would be the next two in line for this particular hybrid model, but neither are at the truly elite academic level of the other six. Syracuse and Boston College would likely also make an argument, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I don't think these schools' primary conferences are going to permit them to stay for Olympic sports. I think they will almost have to exist as their own exclusive, academic minded private school league. With great cities like LA, the Bay Area, Houston, New Orleans, Chicagoland, Nashville, and NC's research triangle they are going to have no problem getting great regional non-conference games.

I agree. If Duke were to go to the ACC and say, "We want a ND type deal," the ACC would say no. Not to mention is would be an NCAA violation. Duke isn't hurting for money but loosing the ACC FB paycheck would hurt.

(09-15-2018 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

Yes. Sign us up.
We’ve never been in a conference where we truly “belonged”. In this one, I believe we would.

(09-15-2018 05:59 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 02:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 02:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 01:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This would be a pretty nice consortium. What about tv money though? Would this group negotiate their own joint contract? Are there maybe two more private schools, like Rice and Tulane, that could be added to create a 7 game conference schedule?

Yes, good point, Muskie, and I thought about that. I think if you add any more to these 6 premier schools, you risk it becoming its own conference. In that case, the TV money and other revenue stream factors become too much to make such a move financially viable, and I still think that these 6 schools would want their primary conference to stay intact for sports other than football (again, exactly like Notre Dame right now in the ACC). I think Miami and TCU would be the next two in line for this particular hybrid model, but neither are at the truly elite academic level of the other six. Syracuse and Boston College would likely also make an argument, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I don't think these schools' primary conferences are going to permit them to stay for Olympic sports. I think they will almost have to exist as their own exclusive, academic minded private school league. With great cities like LA, the Bay Area, Houston, New Orleans, Chicagoland, Nashville, and NC's research triangle they are going to have no problem getting great regional non-conference games.

I agree. If Duke were to go to the ACC and say, "We want a ND type deal," the ACC would say no. Not to mention is would be an NCAA violation. Duke isn't hurting for money but loosing the ACC FB paycheck would hurt.

How would it be a NCAA violation at the end of this next GOR, which was the originally proposed scenario? I agree that marching in next week to the conference office would be a no and would be inappropriate for any of the mentioned schools. At the end of the GOR's, though, it should at least be explored.

The issue that could cause this for another conference or league is when the schools are forced by court ruling that they have to pay their players like a regular paycheck. We know many private schools will not take part in it since they are exempt because of them are mostly religious schools. That would mean all sports, not just football.

It would be more interesting as a fan, but I don’t think this really makes much sense for the schools or conferences themselves

(09-16-2018 04:13 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The issue that could cause this for another conference or league is when the schools are forced by court ruling that they have to pay their players like a regular paycheck. We know many private schools will not take part in it since they are exempt because of them are mostly religious schools. That would mean all sports, not just football.

Face palm. . .

Just stop, religious entities are not exempt from paying employees.

Northwestern players just got rulings because there school is private and not a government and therefore protected by soverign immunity.

(09-17-2018 01:36 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 04:13 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The issue that could cause this for another conference or league is when the schools are forced by court ruling that they have to pay their players like a regular paycheck. We know many private schools will not take part in it since they are exempt because of them are mostly religious schools. That would mean all sports, not just football.

Face palm. . .

Just stop, religious entities are not exempt from paying employees.

Northwestern players just got rulings because there school is private and not a government and therefore protected by soverign immunity.

There are set of different rules between Religious vs public schools. Any laws that go towards public schools could be challenged in the court of law.