https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Likewise, OSU jumped like 10 places by beating BSU. Reverse roles and BSU jumps 1 or 2 places.

BYU gets in at #25. Should probably stay there another week since we play an FCS. I'm just happy to see some progress after last year, not expecting to end the year ranked.

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

I agree, North Texas deserves more votes. They have been impressive so far.

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

I can't let this pass. It only matter how many wins and losses you have if you have a well recognized name. If you aren't expected to be in the poll regularly and you are undefeated you may have to be 6-0 before you sneak in at 25th. Meanwhile there will oodles of the regular brand names with 1 loss and sometimes 2 losses still ahead of you.

The polls are B.S. and always have been. Fortunately there is some semblance of a playoff now.

For years the A.P. polls (which sold newspapers) naturally favored schools who were large media area darlings. The coaches polls are a joke as well. Computers might have done a little better except for programming biases of th programmers.

The only thing that will ever decide anything more definitively (and even then there will be issues) is some form of a champs only playoff. At least the teams in the playoff all won their conference's championship on the field. A playoff is for determining a champion. It is not for determining whether or not you have the best teams from the whole pool of teams. What you have are those who won their conferences which means they are the representatives that finished first of all possible teams. It is therefore logical that for all games played the winner of a playoff involving the best teams from all of the conferences at least gives some air of legitimacy to the term champion.

So thinking that the polls represent the most wins and losses when 2 loss teams have been ranked ahead of undefeated teams is rather laughable. The fact that 1 loss teams have been ranked ahead of undefeated teams, and with some frequency, also dispels that statement. What matters to the polls is branding.

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

(09-18-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

More than that, Quo, there are several A5 schools who are undefeated and not even really making progress in the "others receiving votes" category, let alone mentioned in a poll where defeated teams hold several positions.

But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played. The past has shown how difficult it is to remove brand name schools with losses from the preseason polls and for schools not in the opening pre season poll to move up. The voter's tendencies are not to acknowledge what is before their eyes and to defend the rankings they've already given. The polls would be very different and perhaps a bit more fair if we reserved the first five weeks to truly see how things were trending before we projected anyone to be top 10.

(09-18-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

No doubt. And I am clearly exaggerating to make a point. The polls do not reflect strength as much as they do "deservedness". And some pollsters are explicit in giving rationale that supports this. For example, when a pollster says I'm keeping "X University" as #1 until they lose, he is explicitly saying they "deserve" to be ranked first (maybe because they finished last season on top), despite any evidence that other teams may be stronger and likely to beat "X" head to head.

Similarly, pollsters often with throw a bone to Little Sisters of the poor if they start off the season beating up on Smaller Sisters of the Poor. Part of the problem here is that we let people rank a Top 25, even though there really isn't much of a way to differentiate between that many teams.

If you look at individual ballots (especially further into the season) you will see that the Top 15 or so schools are on nearly every ballot, while the next 10 can be all over the map. Maybe that's a coach putting his next week's opponent on his ballot, to motivate his own team (a favorite ploy of Steve Spurrier). Maybe that's a sportswriter voting for Little Sisters because it makes a good story.

I would love to see the polls vote for a Top Ten (in no particular order) and see which schools get the most votes. But that's not going to happen anytime soon because too many programs have a vested interest in getting what amounts to Honorable Mention. And the fans of those schools pay the bills.

(09-18-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

More than that, Quo, there are several A5 schools who are undefeated and not even really making progress in the "others receiving votes" category, let alone mentioned in a poll where defeated teams hold several positions.

But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played. The past has shown how difficult it is to remove brand name schools with losses from the preseason polls and for schools not in the opening pre season poll to move up. The voter's tendencies are not to acknowledge what is before their eyes and to defend the rankings they've already given. The polls would be very different and perhaps a bit more fair if we reserved the first five weeks to truly see how things were trending before we projected anyone to be top 10.

Exactly. Polls earlier than 5 weeks into the season are pointless, but more importantly, they lend bias to carry over into future polls.

(09-18-2018 02:35 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

More than that, Quo, there are several A5 schools who are undefeated and not even really making progress in the "others receiving votes" category, let alone mentioned in a poll where defeated teams hold several positions.

But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played. The past has shown how difficult it is to remove brand name schools with losses from the preseason polls and for schools not in the opening pre season poll to move up. The voter's tendencies are not to acknowledge what is before their eyes and to defend the rankings they've already given. The polls would be very different and perhaps a bit more fair if we reserved the first five weeks to truly see how things were trending before we projected anyone to be top 10.

Exactly. Polls earlier than 5 weeks into the season are pointless, but more importantly, they lend bias to carry over into future polls.

I would argue that even five weeks is too soon. Let everybody get into the meat of their conference schedules first. Sadly, though, our appetite for something to argue about is too insatiable for that to happen. That's why we get "Way Too Early" polls about next year as soon as the current year ends.

(09-16-2018 06:12 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.collegefootball.ap.org/poll

Kind of a joke with Texas getting more votes than North Texas. Guess Maryland is a quality loss. Prefer to see Iowa, Duke, Kentucky, & North Texas over some of the 1-loss schools.

i guess the media is just shocked that a team that was 7-6 and lost KU isn't a national title contender...same thing will fsu

(09-18-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played.

That's not only true of polls but of computers as well, because before 5-6 games have been played there really aren't enough data points to make accurate appraisals.

Heck, many computers "fill in" that data by using last year's data, and that doesn't wash out until about week 6 or so.

(09-18-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  Kind of a joke thinking UNT deserves a ranking for beating Incarnate Word badly, SMU badly (whose lost 3 times badly) and Arkansas badly (whose only win is over EIU and they lost to 1-3 Colorado St.).

Texas is 33rd and 41st, so, its not like they are anywhere close to being top 25.

Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

More than that, Quo, there are several A5 schools who are undefeated and not even really making progress in the "others receiving votes" category, let alone mentioned in a poll where defeated teams hold several positions.

But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played. The past has shown how difficult it is to remove brand name schools with losses from the preseason polls and for schools not in the opening pre season poll to move up. The voter's tendencies are not to acknowledge what is before their eyes and to defend the rankings they've already given. The polls would be very different and perhaps a bit more fair if we reserved the first five weeks to truly see how things were trending before we projected anyone to be top 10.

The latter is why I am glad the CFP poll didn't start right away. And then they moved it back one week. They really need to start it one more week later as there are traditionally a lot of big games the week after the poll starts.

(09-18-2018 04:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played.

That's not only true of polls but of computers as well, because before 5-6 games have been played there really aren't enough data points to make accurate appraisals.

Heck, many computers "fill in" that data by using last year's data, and that doesn't wash out until about week 6 or so.

And, they very pointedly say that their results aren't valid until at least that point. What they also say is that their ratings aren't, and cannot be, perfect predictors of future results. At best, they say the team with the higher home field adjusted rating would likely win 70% of the time. Therefore, a single win by the lower rated team wouldn't necessarily result in that team jumping its opponent in the rankings.

Since we'll never get two teams playing each other more than twice in a season (and even that's rare) a head to head win isn't the be-all and end-all of ranking criteria. It's just one factor.

(09-18-2018 08:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:26 PM)otown Wrote:  

(09-18-2018 01:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  Except that in the polls, it doesn't matter who is the stronger team. It only matters how many wins and losses you have, regardless of who you played.

Wow, are you serious? Couldn't be further from how the college football world works. This further exemplifies your lack of basic knowledge of the current system in place.

Yes, while wins/losses is obviously the most important thing in poll position, it's not the only thing, because we do in fact see teams with worse records ranked above those with better records.

E.g., in this week's AP poll, Auburn is ranked ahead of eight teams that are unbeaten, including seven A5 teams, even though they have a loss.

More than that, Quo, there are several A5 schools who are undefeated and not even really making progress in the "others receiving votes" category, let alone mentioned in a poll where defeated teams hold several positions.

But this goes back to an ancient observation made frequently by coaches. Polls don't need to exist until at least 5 games have been played. The past has shown how difficult it is to remove brand name schools with losses from the preseason polls and for schools not in the opening pre season poll to move up. The voter's tendencies are not to acknowledge what is before their eyes and to defend the rankings they've already given. The polls would be very different and perhaps a bit more fair if we reserved the first five weeks to truly see how things were trending before we projected anyone to be top 10.

The latter is why I am glad the CFP poll didn't start right away. And then they moved it back one week. They really need to start it one more week later as there are traditionally a lot of big games the week after the poll starts.

I'm not sure how much it matters. The first CFP committee ranking is always heavily influenced by the polls anyway.

Abolish all polls except the one done by the playoff committee.