It looks like CSU bakersfield may have a problem with their schedule...? Or am I mistaken?

A few years ago, a few schools got caught playing more than the four allowable non DI games because of schools in the first year of their transition

CSU Bakersfield has 3 non league non DI games plus two va Cal Baptisr.

Is that kosher?

Looking for clarification.

App has several D2 and one NAIA school on our schedule.

(09-21-2018 08:17 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  App has several D2 and one NAIA school on our schedule.

Most schools have several. I believe the difference is when you have more than what I thought was the four permissible games

Isn't Cal Baptist moving up?

I am sympathetic to the plight of low-majors and weaker mid-majors that would struggle to have more than one or two home OOC games if they couldn't dip into the non-D1 pool for opponents. And I think we're past the point where we can unring that bell. With some exceptions, programs schedule those type of games because they have to, not because they want to.

With that said, I'd suggest two caveats:

1. D2 is fine. D3 and NAIA, not ideal but you can make an argument. But there's no excuse for any school that could theoretically win the national championship to be playing NCCAA/USCAA schools whose student bodies can fit inside a Burger King restroom. There are more than 1,200 NCAA schools. You've got to have a few willing to come to your gym.
2. Not sure how this newfangled replacement for the RPI is going to work out but if it only assigns values to D1 schools, then you've got the same issue that you did with the RPI where you could beat (or for that matter lose to) a non-D1 school and have it not affect your rating at all, while you can beat a team in the 200s and have it hurt you. If non-D1 games are to stay, they need to have some sort of value attached, whether it means ranking all NCAA teams or having a general number for each classification.

(09-21-2018 08:24 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Isn't Cal Baptist moving up?

They just started their D1 transition. Both CSU-B and Cal Baptist are in the WAC anyways.

(09-21-2018 07:58 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  It looks like CSU bakersfield may have a problem with their schedule...? Or am I mistaken?

A few years ago, a few schools got caught playing more than the four allowable non DI games because of schools in the first year of their transition

CSU Bakersfield has 3 non league non DI games plus two va Cal Baptisr.

Is that kosher?

Looking for clarification.

At least they scheduled the Banana Slugs, who should be D1 for their name alone (ditto Lincoln Memorial Railsplitters).

(09-21-2018 11:08 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 07:58 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  It looks like CSU bakersfield may have a problem with their schedule...? Or am I mistaken?

A few years ago, a few schools got caught playing more than the four allowable non DI games because of schools in the first year of their transition

CSU Bakersfield has 3 non league non DI games plus two va Cal Baptisr.

Is that kosher?

Looking for clarification.

At least they scheduled the Banana Slugs, who should be D1 for their name alone (ditto Lincoln Memorial Railsplitters).

Rhode Island School of Design should add more sports and move to D1. Lets here the cheers now. Go NADS!!!!! Yep, and their mascot is a male's member part. Would like to see the Banana Slug kick the Nads mascot.

(09-21-2018 08:42 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 08:24 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Isn't Cal Baptist moving up?

They just started their D1 transition. Both CSU-B and Cal Baptist are in the WAC anyways.

And that's where the Birds belong, in the WAC

(09-21-2018 08:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I am sympathetic to the plight of low-majors and weaker mid-majors that would struggle to have more than one or two home OOC games if they couldn't dip into the non-D1 pool for opponents. And I think we're past the point where we can unring that bell. With some exceptions, programs schedule those type of games because they have to, not because they want to.

With that said, I'd suggest two caveats:

1. D2 is fine. D3 and NAIA, not ideal but you can make an argument. But there's no excuse for any school that could theoretically win the national championship to be playing NCCAA/USCAA schools whose student bodies can fit inside a Burger King restroom. There are more than 1,200 NCAA schools. You've got to have a few willing to come to your gym.
2. Not sure how this newfangled replacement for the RPI is going to work out but if it only assigns values to D1 schools, then you've got the same issue that you did with the RPI where you could beat (or for that matter lose to) a non-D1 school and have it not affect your rating at all, while you can beat a team in the 200s and have it hurt you. If non-D1 games are to stay, they need to have some sort of value attached, whether it means ranking all NCAA teams or having a general number for each classification.

I'd add a 3rd rule. Any school that has a legit shot at an at-large NCAA tourney berth has no business scheduling any D-3 or NAIA schools.

And a 4th: any school with a legit shot at a national title has no business scheduling a D-2 school.

Syracuse can schedule their crosstown neighbor Le Moyne (D-2), but only as a preseason scrimmage. (by the way, Syracuse lost their scrimmage against Le Moyne about 10 years ago. My parents are Le Moyne alums and we wore our Le Moyne shirts to the UC-Syracuse game that year. We were probably the only ones who got the joke)

It's the natural consequence of the RPI not counting non-DI games against you, and if I had to guess it's a lot cheaper to buy a game against DII and such. Miami is playing two NAIA teams this fall and one of them for the second season in a row, they were an all-women college until a few years back so they're basically just looking for a payday to fund their infant athletic department.

(09-22-2018 04:37 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  It's the natural consequence of the RPI not counting non-DI games against you, and if I had to guess it's a lot cheaper to buy a game against DII and such. Miami is playing two NAIA teams this fall and one of them for the second season in a row, they were an all-women college until a few years back so they're basically just looking for a payday to fund their infant athletic department.

Some NAIA teams are legit. But a team with as proud a history as Miami should be doing better than playing a 95% girls school.

I'd rather UC play one fewer game than resort to scheduling like that.

I believe you can only have a max of 3 non D-1 games not including and exhibition game.

(09-22-2018 08:01 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I believe you can only have a max of 3 non D-1 games not including and exhibition game.

That makes senses. App is playing Ferrum in exhibition and Mars Hill, Winston Salem State, and Milligan during non conference play.

(09-21-2018 11:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 11:08 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 07:58 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  It looks like CSU bakersfield may have a problem with their schedule...? Or am I mistaken?

A few years ago, a few schools got caught playing more than the four allowable non DI games because of schools in the first year of their transition

CSU Bakersfield has 3 non league non DI games plus two va Cal Baptisr.

Is that kosher?

Looking for clarification.

At least they scheduled the Banana Slugs, who should be D1 for their name alone (ditto Lincoln Memorial Railsplitters).

Rhode Island School of Design should add more sports and move to D1. Lets here the cheers now. Go NADS!!!!! Yep, and their mascot is a male's member part. Would like to see the Banana Slug kick the Nads mascot.

Lol, RISD is my alma mater.

(09-22-2018 04:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 08:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I am sympathetic to the plight of low-majors and weaker mid-majors that would struggle to have more than one or two home OOC games if they couldn't dip into the non-D1 pool for opponents. And I think we're past the point where we can unring that bell. With some exceptions, programs schedule those type of games because they have to, not because they want to.

With that said, I'd suggest two caveats:

1. D2 is fine. D3 and NAIA, not ideal but you can make an argument. But there's no excuse for any school that could theoretically win the national championship to be playing NCCAA/USCAA schools whose student bodies can fit inside a Burger King restroom. There are more than 1,200 NCAA schools. You've got to have a few willing to come to your gym.
2. Not sure how this newfangled replacement for the RPI is going to work out but if it only assigns values to D1 schools, then you've got the same issue that you did with the RPI where you could beat (or for that matter lose to) a non-D1 school and have it not affect your rating at all, while you can beat a team in the 200s and have it hurt you. If non-D1 games are to stay, they need to have some sort of value attached, whether it means ranking all NCAA teams or having a general number for each classification.

I'd add a 3rd rule. Any school that has a legit shot at an at-large NCAA tourney berth has no business scheduling any D-3 or NAIA schools.

And a 4th: any school with a legit shot at a national title has no business scheduling a D-2 school.

Syracuse can schedule their crosstown neighbor Le Moyne (D-2), but only as a preseason scrimmage. (by the way, Syracuse lost their scrimmage against Le Moyne about 10 years ago. My parents are Le Moyne alums and we wore our Le Moyne shirts to the UC-Syracuse game that year. We were probably the only ones who got the joke)

Great ideas but impossible to enforce. Virtually every school has a pre-season goal of making the NCAAT and winning the NC. So by these definitions, no D1 school would be able to schedule outside D1. Yes, I realize that may be your unstated intent.

Some games are scheduled years in advance. A cellar-dweller in year 1 may make the final four in year 3 but get dinged because they scheduled a D2 team. Some schools like to schedule a game in a seniors home town. Sometimes that requires playing in a 100 seat venue. Friends and family being able to see the kid play live is a tradition I would not change for any amount of money.

A much simpler rule, and easier to enforce would be
- you get 4 games
- you can schedule 1 division up or down
- you get 1 exception if you are playing within X miles of a seniors home town (must be at the other schools facility).

(09-23-2018 09:22 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 04:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 08:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I am sympathetic to the plight of low-majors and weaker mid-majors that would struggle to have more than one or two home OOC games if they couldn't dip into the non-D1 pool for opponents. And I think we're past the point where we can unring that bell. With some exceptions, programs schedule those type of games because they have to, not because they want to.

With that said, I'd suggest two caveats:

1. D2 is fine. D3 and NAIA, not ideal but you can make an argument. But there's no excuse for any school that could theoretically win the national championship to be playing NCCAA/USCAA schools whose student bodies can fit inside a Burger King restroom. There are more than 1,200 NCAA schools. You've got to have a few willing to come to your gym.
2. Not sure how this newfangled replacement for the RPI is going to work out but if it only assigns values to D1 schools, then you've got the same issue that you did with the RPI where you could beat (or for that matter lose to) a non-D1 school and have it not affect your rating at all, while you can beat a team in the 200s and have it hurt you. If non-D1 games are to stay, they need to have some sort of value attached, whether it means ranking all NCAA teams or having a general number for each classification.

I'd add a 3rd rule. Any school that has a legit shot at an at-large NCAA tourney berth has no business scheduling any D-3 or NAIA schools.

And a 4th: any school with a legit shot at a national title has no business scheduling a D-2 school.

Syracuse can schedule their crosstown neighbor Le Moyne (D-2), but only as a preseason scrimmage. (by the way, Syracuse lost their scrimmage against Le Moyne about 10 years ago. My parents are Le Moyne alums and we wore our Le Moyne shirts to the UC-Syracuse game that year. We were probably the only ones who got the joke)

Great ideas but impossible to enforce. Virtually every school has a pre-season goal of making the NCAAT and winning the NC. So by these definitions, no D1 school would be able to schedule outside D1. Yes, I realize that may be your unstated intent.

Some games are scheduled years in advance. A cellar-dweller in year 1 may make the final four in year 3 but get dinged because they scheduled a D2 team. Some schools like to schedule a game in a seniors home town. Sometimes that requires playing in a 100 seat venue. Friends and family being able to see the kid play live is a tradition I would not change for any amount of money.

A much simpler rule, and easier to enforce would be
- you get 4 games
- you can schedule 1 division up or down
- you get 1 exception if you are playing within X miles of a seniors home town (must be at the other schools facility).

I like your last rule (an exception if you play at the other school's facility).

But 4 games is too much, unless you just recently transitioned to D-1. A D-1 school needs to play a D-1 schedule.

(09-22-2018 09:05 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 08:01 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I believe you can only have a max of 3 non D-1 games not including and exhibition game.

That makes senses. App is playing Ferrum in exhibition and Mars Hill, Winston Salem State, and Milligan during non conference play.

The vast majority of these games will be marked as exhibitions for the D1 team by tip off time.

(09-23-2018 01:51 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 09:22 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 04:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 08:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I am sympathetic to the plight of low-majors and weaker mid-majors that would struggle to have more than one or two home OOC games if they couldn't dip into the non-D1 pool for opponents. And I think we're past the point where we can unring that bell. With some exceptions, programs schedule those type of games because they have to, not because they want to.

With that said, I'd suggest two caveats:

1. D2 is fine. D3 and NAIA, not ideal but you can make an argument. But there's no excuse for any school that could theoretically win the national championship to be playing NCCAA/USCAA schools whose student bodies can fit inside a Burger King restroom. There are more than 1,200 NCAA schools. You've got to have a few willing to come to your gym.
2. Not sure how this newfangled replacement for the RPI is going to work out but if it only assigns values to D1 schools, then you've got the same issue that you did with the RPI where you could beat (or for that matter lose to) a non-D1 school and have it not affect your rating at all, while you can beat a team in the 200s and have it hurt you. If non-D1 games are to stay, they need to have some sort of value attached, whether it means ranking all NCAA teams or having a general number for each classification.

I'd add a 3rd rule. Any school that has a legit shot at an at-large NCAA tourney berth has no business scheduling any D-3 or NAIA schools.

And a 4th: any school with a legit shot at a national title has no business scheduling a D-2 school.

Syracuse can schedule their crosstown neighbor Le Moyne (D-2), but only as a preseason scrimmage. (by the way, Syracuse lost their scrimmage against Le Moyne about 10 years ago. My parents are Le Moyne alums and we wore our Le Moyne shirts to the UC-Syracuse game that year. We were probably the only ones who got the joke)

Great ideas but impossible to enforce. Virtually every school has a pre-season goal of making the NCAAT and winning the NC. So by these definitions, no D1 school would be able to schedule outside D1. Yes, I realize that may be your unstated intent.

Some games are scheduled years in advance. A cellar-dweller in year 1 may make the final four in year 3 but get dinged because they scheduled a D2 team. Some schools like to schedule a game in a seniors home town. Sometimes that requires playing in a 100 seat venue. Friends and family being able to see the kid play live is a tradition I would not change for any amount of money.

A much simpler rule, and easier to enforce would be
- you get 4 games
- you can schedule 1 division up or down
- you get 1 exception if you are playing within X miles of a seniors home town (must be at the other schools facility).

I like your last rule (an exception if you play at the other school's facility).

But 4 games is too much, unless you just recently transitioned to D-1. A D-1 school needs to play a D-1 schedule.

Percentage-wise 3 or 4 isn't much difference. In a 30 game season with 20 conference games you only have 10 to play with. Many mid-majors and D2 schools need those games to generate money.