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What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
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billybobby777 Offline
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What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
Since there’s a thread about the “what if’s” on Big East and Penn St let’s do one on the WAC.
The WAC doesn’t expand in 94:
-They keep their Holiday Bowl (Holiday Bowl cited WAC expansion as reason WAC was dropped)
-They get the Cotton Bowl bid taking the place of the SWC which is disbanded. (That actually happened at first)
-TCU eventually gets a WAC invite no matter if they are an Indy or CUSA
-WAC eventually becomes a part of the BCS as conf #7 of an 8 team set up.
-WAC safe from raiding for 15 years from 94 until at least 2011 when the PAC and Big 12 expand and strong with BYU, Utah, TCU, Air Force.
-Boise St never gets FBS call up as the Big West doesn’t need need them
09-24-2018 08:27 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
The 16 member WAC was a strange creature, one that I just postulated it might have been saved.

The trouble was that they needed just 2 schools and TCU/SMU/Rice said they were a package deal.

To get the votes Hawaii and the Cali schools had to be promised regionally friendly SJSU and UNLV.

Tulsa got thrown into make an even 16.

By all accounts the expansion votes was 5-4 with 1 abstention and it passed.

In retrospect, they could have just added SJSU and UNLV to get the conference game.

So if the WAC 16 never occurs it means either the SWC lived on or all of those Texas schools land in C-USA in 1996 when Houston joined.

Playing things out--UTEP never leaves the WAC, LA Tech never joins, Big West football lives on until 2005 or even as late as 2012.
09-24-2018 08:54 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
I think maybe there is more effort directed toward rebuilding the SWC if 3 of the 4 refugees have no other option.
09-24-2018 09:28 PM
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arkstfan Away
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-24-2018 09:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think maybe there is more effort directed toward rebuilding the SWC if 3 of the 4 refugees have no other option.

Would have been interesting. Tulsa almost certainly would have wanted in. Tulane might have felt that it was a better choice than the forming CUSA.

There would have been plenty of other schools interested who weren't going to be high on the list but could get the league to the critical number of six members, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, New Mexico State and who knows what UTEP was thinking at that point. North Texas I believe was transitioning or close to it as well (though I'd imagine that would be a hard no from SMU).
09-24-2018 09:41 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-24-2018 08:27 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Since there’s a thread about the “what if’s” on Big East and Penn St let’s do one on the WAC.
The WAC doesn’t expand in 94:
-They keep their Holiday Bowl (Holiday Bowl cited WAC expansion as reason WAC was dropped)
-They get the Cotton Bowl bid taking the place of the SWC which is disbanded. (That actually happened at first)
-TCU eventually gets a WAC invite no matter if they are an Indy or CUSA
-WAC eventually becomes a part of the BCS as conf #7 of an 8 team set up.
-WAC safe from raiding for 15 years from 94 until at least 2011 when the PAC and Big 12 expand and strong with BYU, Utah, TCU, Air Force.
-Boise St never gets FBS call up as the Big West doesn’t need need them


Boise would have gone up regardless. This is why I would oppose adding weak Texas teams to MWC, it only dilutes MWC.


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09-24-2018 09:56 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
WAC's deal with the Cotton Bowl was a tie in with the Holiday Bowl. It wasn't both. The champion went to either the Cotton or Holiday.
09-24-2018 10:00 PM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-24-2018 08:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The 16 member WAC was a strange creature, one that I just postulated it might have been saved.

The trouble was that they needed just 2 schools and TCU/SMU/Rice said they were a package deal.

To get the votes Hawaii and the Cali schools had to be promised regionally friendly SJSU and UNLV.

Tulsa got thrown into make an even 16.

By all accounts the expansion votes was 5-4 with 1 abstention and it passed.

In retrospect, they could have just added SJSU and UNLV to get the conference game.

So if the WAC 16 never occurs it means either the SWC lived on or all of those Texas schools land in C-USA in 1996 when Houston joined.

Playing things out--UTEP never leaves the WAC, LA Tech never joins, Big West football lives on until 2005 or even as late as 2012.

If Big West football lives on through 2005 or 2012, that gives Cal Poly (and UC Davis?) time to move their program up. So does it look like...

Cal Poly
Boise
Utah State
NMSU
UC Davis
Idaho
Nevada
LA Tech (fb-only)
Arkansas State (fb-only)

With UCSB, UCI, CSU Fullerton, Pacific and LBSU as non-football. North Texas leaves regardless.
09-24-2018 11:00 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-24-2018 11:00 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(09-24-2018 08:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The 16 member WAC was a strange creature, one that I just postulated it might have been saved.

The trouble was that they needed just 2 schools and TCU/SMU/Rice said they were a package deal.

To get the votes Hawaii and the Cali schools had to be promised regionally friendly SJSU and UNLV.

Tulsa got thrown into make an even 16.

By all accounts the expansion votes was 5-4 with 1 abstention and it passed.

In retrospect, they could have just added SJSU and UNLV to get the conference game.

So if the WAC 16 never occurs it means either the SWC lived on or all of those Texas schools land in C-USA in 1996 when Houston joined.

Playing things out--UTEP never leaves the WAC, LA Tech never joins, Big West football lives on until 2005 or even as late as 2012.

If Big West football lives on through 2005 or 2012, that gives Cal Poly (and UC Davis?) time to move their program up. So does it look like...

Cal Poly
Boise
Utah State
NMSU
UC Davis
Idaho
Nevada
LA Tech (fb-only)
Arkansas State (fb-only)

With UCSB, UCI, CSU Fullerton, Pacific and LBSU as non-football. North Texas leaves regardless.


You then have Fullerton State, Northridge State and Long Beach State thinking of adding football around 2012. La. Tech would leave for C-USA and Arkansas State would have bolted for Sun Belt. You had Northern Illinois in the mixed, but would have gone to MAC.

If CSU-L.A. stayed D1, and kept football? They would be right there in the mixed.
UC-Irvine leaders have not ruled out adding football in the future.
UC-Santa Barbara, UC-Riverside, UC-San Diego all had football. San Diego was asking Pacific and Saint Mary's to keep football for the Pioneer League, and Santa Clara could have football in Pioneer.

WAC could still lose TCU and Utah. WAC could expand by 4.
Hawaii, UNR, Boise State and Fresno State. 5 if Utah leaves with Long Beach State. That is if Long Beach kept football with the plans for an on campus stadium that meets the NCAA requirements. There were people willing to donate money for the stadium.
Big West would have to look at Sacramento State, Portland State, Northern Arizona, UTEP, Eastern Washington, Northern Colorado, Montana, Chico State, and CSU-Dominguez Hills.
09-25-2018 04:26 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-24-2018 09:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-24-2018 09:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think maybe there is more effort directed toward rebuilding the SWC if 3 of the 4 refugees have no other option.

Would have been interesting. Tulsa almost certainly would have wanted in. Tulane might have felt that it was a better choice than the forming CUSA.

There would have been plenty of other schools interested who weren't going to be high on the list but could get the league to the critical number of six members, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, New Mexico State and who knows what UTEP was thinking at that point. North Texas I believe was transitioning or close to it as well (though I'd imagine that would be a hard no from SMU).

I would have far preferred a rebuilt SWC to what was a very basketball-centric CUSA. My preference was to maintain as many ties to the SWC as possible. So, rebuilding the SWC was my #1 option. Going to the WAC with the other 3 SWC refugees was my #2 option. The basketball first CUSA built with teams we had very little history with was a distant 3rd. I prety much hated the idea and was very unhappy when that became the most likely direction.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2018 10:22 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-25-2018 10:21 AM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-25-2018 10:21 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-24-2018 09:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-24-2018 09:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think maybe there is more effort directed toward rebuilding the SWC if 3 of the 4 refugees have no other option.

Would have been interesting. Tulsa almost certainly would have wanted in. Tulane might have felt that it was a better choice than the forming CUSA.

There would have been plenty of other schools interested who weren't going to be high on the list but could get the league to the critical number of six members, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, New Mexico State and who knows what UTEP was thinking at that point. North Texas I believe was transitioning or close to it as well (though I'd imagine that would be a hard no from SMU).

I would have far preferred a rebuilt SWC to what was a very basketball-centric CUSA. My preference was to maintain as many ties to the SWC as possible. So, rebuilding the SWC was my #1 option. Going to the WAC with the other 3 SWC refugees was my #2 option. The basketball first CUSA built with teams we had very little history with was a distant 3rd. I prety much hated the idea and was very unhappy when that became the most likely direction.

If Houston had stuck, then it really gets interesting. Tulsa will want in. Tulane probably wants in. UTEP and New Mexico are probably on the table as well. Down the road that means two schools available for later home starts for TV and six are available from 11am Central until later in the day.
09-25-2018 10:34 AM
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Chappy Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
What if Rice, SMU and TCU had all joined Houston in C-USA? I wonder how that would have changed things... could it have possibly slammed the C-USA door for ECU?
09-25-2018 10:44 AM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
The WAC's ADs wanted UNLV and TCU. San Jose, Tulsa, Rice and SMU were the add-ons.

In the end, Utah, TCU and BYU move on and the MWC looks about like it does now.

I guess there would have been a new SWC with Tulsa, Rice, SMU, ULL, La Tech, Arkansas St. and perhaps a couple of other football schools. Tulsa and SMU still end up in AAC and Rice in CUSA.

Now the WAC and Sun Belt might not have pulled up as many FCS schools. Much of the current Sun Belt + UTSA might still be in FCS or not playing football.
09-25-2018 10:47 AM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
UTEP paid a big prize for pushing for the SWC leftovers. Having Rice, TCU, SMU and Houston in the WAC was a dream come true. When Houston decided they wanted to be a charter member of C-USA, Tulsa got the invite instead. In the end, we lost all our rivals and until this day, we don’t have one. The closest thing we have is Rice after 22 years but I don’t think we see each other as rivals.

UNLV was a given, when the decision to expand was made in 1994, the Rebels were removed four years from their NC and three years from their second Final Four. The question is, who’s #12? Should they have added just UNLV and stay at 11 just like the Big Ten after Penn State joined? Some people say TCU but we might be confusing today’s TCU with TCU of the mid 90s which was in shambles. SMU was seven years removed from the death penalty, Houston was not interested and Rice had the best football program of the three although Houston won a Heisman in ‘90 or ‘91. So no SWC leftover was going to the WAC by themselves except perhaps Houston which they were more interested in going East than West. Tulsa wouldn’t even be in the conversation without the Texas schools. So who’s #12? There were only three Western options back then: San Jose State, Utah State and New Mexico State. In 1994, Boise State, Nevada and Idaho were still playing in Div I-AA and started playing Div I-A in 1996, the first year of the WAC-16. Pacific and Long Beach State just dropped football. BYU and Utah blocked Utah State while UTEP and New Mexico blocked NMSU. So that only leaves SJSU as #12.

Karl Benson usually gets blamed for the WAC-16 expansion. He was the MAC commissioner at the time. It was Joseph Kearney who was the WAC commissioner and Benson took over when the decision was made shortly after. He can be blamed for a lot of things but the expansion fiasco is not one of them.

The first year of the WAC-16 was my freshman year at UTEP. I still remember the slogan from the UTEP football poster: “WAC with a Vengeance”.
09-25-2018 12:59 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-25-2018 12:59 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  UTEP paid a big prize for pushing for the SWC leftovers. Having Rice, TCU, SMU and Houston in the WAC was a dream come true. When Houston decided they wanted to be a charter member of C-USA, Tulsa got the invite instead. In the end, we lost all our rivals and until this day, we don’t have one. The closest thing we have is Rice after 22 years but I don’t think we see each other as rivals.

UNLV was a given, when the decision to expand was made in 1994, the Rebels were removed four years from their NC and three years from their second Final Four. The question is, who’s #12? Should they have added just UNLV and stay at 11 just like the Big Ten after Penn State joined? Some people say TCU but we might be confusing today’s TCU with TCU of the mid 90s which was in shambles. SMU was seven years removed from the death penalty, Houston was not interested and Rice had the best football program of the three although Houston won a Heisman in ‘90 or ‘91. So no SWC leftover was going to the WAC by themselves except perhaps Houston which they were more interested in going East than West. Tulsa wouldn’t even be in the conversation without the Texas schools. So who’s #12? There were only three Western options back then: San Jose State, Utah State and New Mexico State. In 1994, Boise State, Nevada and Idaho were still playing in Div I-AA and started playing Div I-A in 1996, the first year of the WAC-16. Pacific and Long Beach State just dropped football. BYU and Utah blocked Utah State while UTEP and New Mexico blocked NMSU. So that only leaves SJSU as #12.

Karl Benson usually gets blamed for the WAC-16 expansion. He was the MAC commissioner at the time. It was Joseph Kearney who was the WAC commissioner and Benson took over when the decision was made shortly after. He can be blamed for a lot of things but the expansion fiasco is not one of them.

The first year of the WAC-16 was my freshman year at UTEP. I still remember the slogan from the UTEP football poster: “WAC with a Vengeance”.


UNLV will always be known as the little brother to UNR.
09-25-2018 01:33 PM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
If SWC leftovers had kept it going - would UTEP and New Mexico went to the SWC or stayed in the WAC? If UTEP went to the SWC, lot of the division problems would have been solved for the WAC.

BYU
Utah
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico

Fresno State
San Diego State
Hawaii
UNLV
San Jose State
*Nevada (They had just moved up in 1992, so this might be iffy)

Ironically its not much different than from today's current MWC.
09-25-2018 01:52 PM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
Here's my "WAC-16 averted" scenario: https://csnbbs.com/thread-821510-post-15...id15283343
09-25-2018 01:54 PM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-25-2018 01:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-25-2018 12:59 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  UTEP paid a big prize for pushing for the SWC leftovers. Having Rice, TCU, SMU and Houston in the WAC was a dream come true. When Houston decided they wanted to be a charter member of C-USA, Tulsa got the invite instead. In the end, we lost all our rivals and until this day, we don’t have one. The closest thing we have is Rice after 22 years but I don’t think we see each other as rivals.

UNLV was a given, when the decision to expand was made in 1994, the Rebels were removed four years from their NC and three years from their second Final Four. The question is, who’s #12? Should they have added just UNLV and stay at 11 just like the Big Ten after Penn State joined? Some people say TCU but we might be confusing today’s TCU with TCU of the mid 90s which was in shambles. SMU was seven years removed from the death penalty, Houston was not interested and Rice had the best football program of the three although Houston won a Heisman in ‘90 or ‘91. So no SWC leftover was going to the WAC by themselves except perhaps Houston which they were more interested in going East than West. Tulsa wouldn’t even be in the conversation without the Texas schools. So who’s #12? There were only three Western options back then: San Jose State, Utah State and New Mexico State. In 1994, Boise State, Nevada and Idaho were still playing in Div I-AA and started playing Div I-A in 1996, the first year of the WAC-16. Pacific and Long Beach State just dropped football. BYU and Utah blocked Utah State while UTEP and New Mexico blocked NMSU. So that only leaves SJSU as #12.

Karl Benson usually gets blamed for the WAC-16 expansion. He was the MAC commissioner at the time. It was Joseph Kearney who was the WAC commissioner and Benson took over when the decision was made shortly after. He can be blamed for a lot of things but the expansion fiasco is not one of them.

The first year of the WAC-16 was my freshman year at UTEP. I still remember the slogan from the UTEP football poster: “WAC with a Vengeance”.


UNLV will always be known as the more successful brother to UNR.

FIFY
09-25-2018 03:37 PM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
What would have happened if marsh rice had never moved to houston
09-25-2018 04:29 PM
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-25-2018 12:59 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  UTEP paid a big prize for pushing for the SWC leftovers. Having Rice, TCU, SMU and Houston in the WAC was a dream come true. When Houston decided they wanted to be a charter member of C-USA, Tulsa got the invite instead. In the end, we lost all our rivals and until this day, we don’t have one. The closest thing we have is Rice after 22 years but I don’t think we see each other as rivals.

UNLV was a given, when the decision to expand was made in 1994, the Rebels were removed four years from their NC and three years from their second Final Four. The question is, who’s #12? Should they have added just UNLV and stay at 11 just like the Big Ten after Penn State joined? Some people say TCU but we might be confusing today’s TCU with TCU of the mid 90s which was in shambles. SMU was seven years removed from the death penalty, Houston was not interested and Rice had the best football program of the three although Houston won a Heisman in ‘90 or ‘91. So no SWC leftover was going to the WAC by themselves except perhaps Houston which they were more interested in going East than West. Tulsa wouldn’t even be in the conversation without the Texas schools. So who’s #12? There were only three Western options back then: San Jose State, Utah State and New Mexico State. In 1994, Boise State, Nevada and Idaho were still playing in Div I-AA and started playing Div I-A in 1996, the first year of the WAC-16. Pacific and Long Beach State just dropped football. BYU and Utah blocked Utah State while UTEP and New Mexico blocked NMSU. So that only leaves SJSU as #12.

Karl Benson usually gets blamed for the WAC-16 expansion. He was the MAC commissioner at the time. It was Joseph Kearney who was the WAC commissioner and Benson took over when the decision was made shortly after. He can be blamed for a lot of things but the expansion fiasco is not one of them.

The first year of the WAC-16 was my freshman year at UTEP. I still remember the slogan from the UTEP football poster: “WAC with a Vengeance”.

Not to mention that voting yes on the WAC 16 earned UTEP a long lasting black ball from the Airport 5
09-25-2018 04:56 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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RE: What would have happened if the WAC doesn’t expand in 94 with SWC leftovers?
(09-25-2018 04:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(09-25-2018 12:59 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  UTEP paid a big prize for pushing for the SWC leftovers. Having Rice, TCU, SMU and Houston in the WAC was a dream come true. When Houston decided they wanted to be a charter member of C-USA, Tulsa got the invite instead. In the end, we lost all our rivals and until this day, we don’t have one. The closest thing we have is Rice after 22 years but I don’t think we see each other as rivals.

UNLV was a given, when the decision to expand was made in 1994, the Rebels were removed four years from their NC and three years from their second Final Four. The question is, who’s #12? Should they have added just UNLV and stay at 11 just like the Big Ten after Penn State joined? Some people say TCU but we might be confusing today’s TCU with TCU of the mid 90s which was in shambles. SMU was seven years removed from the death penalty, Houston was not interested and Rice had the best football program of the three although Houston won a Heisman in ‘90 or ‘91. So no SWC leftover was going to the WAC by themselves except perhaps Houston which they were more interested in going East than West. Tulsa wouldn’t even be in the conversation without the Texas schools. So who’s #12? There were only three Western options back then: San Jose State, Utah State and New Mexico State. In 1994, Boise State, Nevada and Idaho were still playing in Div I-AA and started playing Div I-A in 1996, the first year of the WAC-16. Pacific and Long Beach State just dropped football. BYU and Utah blocked Utah State while UTEP and New Mexico blocked NMSU. So that only leaves SJSU as #12.

Karl Benson usually gets blamed for the WAC-16 expansion. He was the MAC commissioner at the time. It was Joseph Kearney who was the WAC commissioner and Benson took over when the decision was made shortly after. He can be blamed for a lot of things but the expansion fiasco is not one of them.

The first year of the WAC-16 was my freshman year at UTEP. I still remember the slogan from the UTEP football poster: “WAC with a Vengeance”.

Not to mention that voting yes on the WAC 16 earned UTEP a long lasting black ball from the Airport 5

I’m sure we were the first on the list. Hawaii and Fresno State were punished as well but at least they’re reunited with their peers.

I was one of the few UTEP fans who was against leaving the WAC for C-USA. I was criticized on the UTEP Rivals board and on the C-USA here for being too vocal about my opposition to leave the WAC. My biggest fear was that C-USA was a Big East raid away from becoming another WAC. We’ve seen that movie before and I hate the fact that I was right. Apparently, Rice, Tulsa and SMU didn’t want us when a TCU left. They wanted Louisiana Tech instead. It was Memphis and Southern Miss that were pushing for us. I completely get the reason why UTEP wants to be aligned with the Texas schools but they really don’t care about us one way or the other and quite frankly, I don’t trust them. Being with other Texas schools is the reason why we said no to the MWC. San Jose State got our spot. I don’t care if UTEP leaves the other Texas schools behind. Stop chasing them. They’re one of the reasons why a Western school is stuck in a Southern based league.
09-25-2018 06:22 PM
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