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The Future of Redshirting is here
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #21
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-26-2018 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  In fairness to Kelly, I think he understood that he was being demoted because the coaches felt that TL had outplayed him and earned the starting job.

Based upon his statements in the press he did not understand.



Quote:That said, this hurts Clemson's title aspirations.
Not really. We weren't going to win a national title with Kelly Bryant at QB anyway. To win a national title you have to have a QB who can win games for you with his arm and Kelly Bryant simply can't make the throws needed to do that.
09-27-2018 08:41 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-26-2018 01:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 01:19 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 12:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 12:29 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think it's great! What good is it to the players - or the casual fan - if starter-quality backups ride the bench? This way if they can't win the starting job 4 games into the season, they can read the writing on the wall and transfer somewhere they can actually, you know, PLAY!

And a team's depth is gone.

Maybe the coach is using some easy early games to get the backup some reps and save the starter for conference play.

Especially when you are team captain and you quit on your team.

Each player should do what's best for himself, and what's best for himself might not be sitting on the bench as an insurance policy just so his extremely well paid head coach can sleep better at night.

What this will inevitably lead to is a scholarship system that renews scholarships annually. If the players aren't going to commit to 4 years then there is no reason for the schools to do it either. Right now 4 year scholarships cover the studs and a lot of bench warmers. If players want to be able to do what is best for themselves then schools will as well.

It gives smaller schools something to use to compete with big football factories: "come here and we'll guarantee all 4 years (they won't)". The ultimate result of this new rule will inevitably be more parity in college football - a very good thing for fans of teams not named "Crimson Tide".
09-27-2018 11:15 AM
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va-eagle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 11:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 01:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 01:19 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 12:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 12:29 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think it's great! What good is it to the players - or the casual fan - if starter-quality backups ride the bench? This way if they can't win the starting job 4 games into the season, they can read the writing on the wall and transfer somewhere they can actually, you know, PLAY!

And a team's depth is gone.

Maybe the coach is using some easy early games to get the backup some reps and save the starter for conference play.

Especially when you are team captain and you quit on your team.

Each player should do what's best for himself, and what's best for himself might not be sitting on the bench as an insurance policy just so his extremely well paid head coach can sleep better at night.

What this will inevitably lead to is a scholarship system that renews scholarships annually. If the players aren't going to commit to 4 years then there is no reason for the schools to do it either. Right now 4 year scholarships cover the studs and a lot of bench warmers. If players want to be able to do what is best for themselves then schools will as well.

It gives smaller schools something to use to compete with big football factories: "come here and we'll guarantee all 4 years (they won't)". The ultimate result of this new rule will inevitably be more parity in college football - a very good thing for fans of teams not named "Crimson Tide".

Small schools already do this.
09-27-2018 11:29 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #24
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 08:41 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  In fairness to Kelly, I think he understood that he was being demoted because the coaches felt that TL had outplayed him and earned the starting job.

Based upon his statements in the press he did not understand.



Quote:That said, this hurts Clemson's title aspirations.
Not really. We weren't going to win a national title with Kelly Bryant at QB anyway. To win a national title you have to have a QB who can win games for you with his arm and Kelly Bryant simply can't make the throws needed to do that.

To be fair, we can't know for sure whether Clemson could win a national title with Bryant as QB. Alabama came within a last second play of doing it with Jalen Hurts as its QB and he has lost his starting job because of his limited passing ability.

I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Swinney could have chosen to make all this moot by starting Bryant this week and demoting him later. That action would have removed forever Bryant's ability to play anywhere else. Instead he (Swinney) chose to give Bryant a chance to make a decision in his (Bryant's) own self interest and against Swinney's and Clemson's interest.

That's an example of how coaches should treat their players. Unfortunately, some coaches won't be so scrupulous.
09-27-2018 11:44 AM
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JCMiner Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
I’m confused with this rule. Is it only the first four games of the season or could the coach pick which four games throughout the season as long as the player doesn’t play over four games?[/align]
09-27-2018 12:50 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 12:50 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  I’m confused with this rule. Is it only the first four games of the season or could the coach pick which four games throughout the season as long as the player doesn’t play over four games?[/align]

Some of our players are getting early exposure, while others will be in later games if injuries happen

So to your question, throughout the season and bowl game
09-27-2018 12:57 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
The only thing it will really impact is depth at high profile positions. The line rotates throughout the game and the season already. Obvious #2 QBs, WRs, and RBs will be the positions that suffer a loss in depth. The defense is situational and rotates so I don't see much impact there either.

I did leave out kickers. #2's there will leave as well because once you have a kicker the #2 sees very little time.
09-27-2018 01:02 PM
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JCMiner Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 12:57 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(09-27-2018 12:50 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  I’m confused with this rule. Is it only the first four games of the season or could the coach pick which four games throughout the season as long as the player doesn’t play over four games?[/align]

Some of our players are getting early exposure, while others will be in later games if injuries happen

So to your question, throughout the season and bowl game

Thanks for clarifying that.
09-27-2018 01:57 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 11:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2018 08:41 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  In fairness to Kelly, I think he understood that he was being demoted because the coaches felt that TL had outplayed him and earned the starting job.

Based upon his statements in the press he did not understand.



Quote:That said, this hurts Clemson's title aspirations.
Not really. We weren't going to win a national title with Kelly Bryant at QB anyway. To win a national title you have to have a QB who can win games for you with his arm and Kelly Bryant simply can't make the throws needed to do that.

To be fair, we can't know for sure whether Clemson could win a national title with Bryant as QB. Alabama came within a last second play of doing it with Jalen Hurts as its QB and he has lost his starting job because of his limited passing ability.

It's an apples and oranges comparison. As limited as Hurts is he's still a far better passing QB than Bryant.

Twice last year, Syracuse because of injury and Alabama because of the defensive scheme, we were in games where the only way we were going to win is Kelly Bryant's passing ability and we lost both games.
09-27-2018 02:47 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
It would be nice to see all coaches treat their players with kindness like Dabo did for Kelly Bryant. By letting him know now, he allowed Bryant to make a decision about his future and not just toss him on the dust heap of oblivion.
09-27-2018 02:57 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-26-2018 11:26 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Thanks to the NCAA's new redshirt rule, Sam Houston's RB is redshirting after playing first three games, and transferring.

FCS: Sam Houston RB Remus Bulmer To Transfer

Remus Bulmer, a 2,000-yard career rusher for the Bearkats, will transfer after playing in the team's first three games of the year.

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-sam-...rring-ajaj

On Monday, Sam Houston State running back Remus Bulmer -- one of the top returning career rushers in the FCS -- reached out to HERO Sports and said he is going to sit out the rest of 2018 and will take his redshirt this year, then look to play his senior season elsewhere in 2019.


But the past two weeks -- both being losses to North Dakota and Nicholls -- Bulmer has had five and eight carries respectively and sophomore Kyran Jackson currently leads the team in rushing. With the new redshirting rule -- which allows a player to participate in up to four games without losing a year of eligibility, Bulmer can sit out the remainder of 2018 and have a fresh start in 2019 since he never redshirted before. Players from Oklahoma State also announced today they would use this rule to transfer.

So he's dropping out now? Is he going to complete fall semester classes?

The NCAA is trying to create a system where students transfer for academic reasons, not for athletic reasons. It looks like this new rule will make that situation worse.
09-27-2018 03:05 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #32
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-26-2018 08:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All the more reason not to have a poll until after week #5. The quality of teams will vary after defections and headed into the last 7 games injuries start to mount up. What I was thinking where Bryant is concerned is that should the starter go down, who to now? Such things can affect the standing of a team by 5 or more spots which is certainly enough to take them out of the CFP should the unthinkable occur.

Well in fairness to the FBS conferences, the CFP doesn't have a poll until what, about week 8 or so? I think it is still a good month until we get the first set of CFP rankings.

As for the AP and USA Today, as you know they will keep publishing polls because (a) we the fans like looking at them even though as you say they have plenty of flaws especially early on, and (b) because of (a), the polls draw eyeballs to those organizations, so they gain money and publicity from publishing them.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 03:37 PM by quo vadis.)
09-27-2018 03:37 PM
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HoustonCougarNation Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
All I can say is that this is going to be a cluster and one of the biggest f-ups in the history of college sports!!!!
09-27-2018 03:46 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 03:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 11:26 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Thanks to the NCAA's new redshirt rule, Sam Houston's RB is redshirting after playing first three games, and transferring.

FCS: Sam Houston RB Remus Bulmer To Transfer

Remus Bulmer, a 2,000-yard career rusher for the Bearkats, will transfer after playing in the team's first three games of the year.

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-sam-...rring-ajaj

On Monday, Sam Houston State running back Remus Bulmer -- one of the top returning career rushers in the FCS -- reached out to HERO Sports and said he is going to sit out the rest of 2018 and will take his redshirt this year, then look to play his senior season elsewhere in 2019.


But the past two weeks -- both being losses to North Dakota and Nicholls -- Bulmer has had five and eight carries respectively and sophomore Kyran Jackson currently leads the team in rushing. With the new redshirting rule -- which allows a player to participate in up to four games without losing a year of eligibility, Bulmer can sit out the remainder of 2018 and have a fresh start in 2019 since he never redshirted before. Players from Oklahoma State also announced today they would use this rule to transfer.

So he's dropping out now? Is he going to complete fall semester classes?

The NCAA is trying to create a system where students transfer for academic reasons, not for athletic reasons. It looks like this new rule will make that situation worse.

Not really. The NCAA takes many absurd positions, but even the NCAA isn't trying to get us to believe that if a basketball player transfers from Duke to [insert name of school whose academics you want to make fun of] that he's doing it for an academic upgrade.
09-27-2018 03:47 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #35
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-27-2018 03:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-27-2018 03:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-26-2018 11:26 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Thanks to the NCAA's new redshirt rule, Sam Houston's RB is redshirting after playing first three games, and transferring.

FCS: Sam Houston RB Remus Bulmer To Transfer

Remus Bulmer, a 2,000-yard career rusher for the Bearkats, will transfer after playing in the team's first three games of the year.

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-sam-...rring-ajaj

On Monday, Sam Houston State running back Remus Bulmer -- one of the top returning career rushers in the FCS -- reached out to HERO Sports and said he is going to sit out the rest of 2018 and will take his redshirt this year, then look to play his senior season elsewhere in 2019.


But the past two weeks -- both being losses to North Dakota and Nicholls -- Bulmer has had five and eight carries respectively and sophomore Kyran Jackson currently leads the team in rushing. With the new redshirting rule -- which allows a player to participate in up to four games without losing a year of eligibility, Bulmer can sit out the remainder of 2018 and have a fresh start in 2019 since he never redshirted before. Players from Oklahoma State also announced today they would use this rule to transfer.

So he's dropping out now? Is he going to complete fall semester classes?

The NCAA is trying to create a system where students transfer for academic reasons, not for athletic reasons. It looks like this new rule will make that situation worse.

Not really. The NCAA takes many absurd positions, but even the NCAA isn't trying to get us to believe that if a basketball player transfers from Duke to [insert name of school whose academics you want to make fun of] that he's doing it for an academic upgrade.

It's not that they're trying to trick people.

It's that they're trying to discourage people from transferring for athletics.

The NCAA is NOT a minor league. The NCAA will do what it can to make it more like high school sports teams (where it's a competition between members of each schools' respective student bodies) and less like a minor league.

The fact that many aspects of NCAA competition are already like a minor league makes the transferring issue even more important.
09-27-2018 05:27 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
The way this played out at Clemson, you may never see another freshman QB named as the starter for the first time in week #5... if he can't win the starting job in training camp, he'll have to wait until week #6.
09-29-2018 01:55 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #37
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-29-2018 01:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The way this played out at Clemson, you may never see another freshman QB named as the starter for the first time in week #5... if he can't win the starting job in training camp, he'll have to wait until week #6.

Well what I said above almost came to pass. The new rule is going to evaporate depth at skill positions.
09-29-2018 03:14 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The Future of Redshirting is here
(09-29-2018 03:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2018 01:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The way this played out at Clemson, you may never see another freshman QB named as the starter for the first time in week #5... if he can't win the starting job in training camp, he'll have to wait until week #6.

Well what I said above almost came to pass. The new rule is going to evaporate depth at skill positions.

Although maybe evaporating depth at skill positions will introduce a little more parity. More upsets. More busters. Idk, but it might make the game just a little more interesting.
09-29-2018 09:23 PM
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