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Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-12-2018 09:14 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  To heck with the BIG. I do not keep up with the MBB too much but do remember that the BE has full crowds at MSG. It would be a shame to change that.

That is far more true of the prior version of the Big East and the last two years of the current Big East. The current version of the Big East stumbled a bit in terms of attendance its first three years at MSG.

Like anything else, it takes time to build, just see the ACC's attendance at Barclays or the Big Ten's attendance at Verizon (which is now Capitol One).

Cheers,
Neil
10-13-2018 10:49 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 10:18 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Yes Barclays is “new”but seats about 17,500 for basketball and is the the second or third smallest in the nba, depending on source. * There is a reason why Barclays “record attendance” was 18,000, and that was for a concert with floor seating. And it’s not just because the nets suck.

FWIW, the ACC says it drew more than 18,000 at Barclays for its finals sessions during the 2018 tournament:

"Barclays Center recently completed a successful two-year run as the Tournament host site, setting attendance records in both 2017 and 2018. Last year, the ACC set a record for attendance at a college basketball event at Barclays Center with 18,157 fans at both the semifinals on Friday night and the championship game on Saturday evening."

I'm just not down with calling an arena that seats at least 18,000 for college hoops tournament "small". We're talking about a conference tournament here, not the Final 4 or the Super Bowl.

Especially when the ACC, historically the best-attended tournament, enjoyed playing at Barclays in 2017 and 2018, Swofford calls Barclays a "great arena" and just last month signed a deal to play the event there in 2022, the first year they could as the A10 has it the next three years.

And that's probably where "newness" kicks in: Not only does Barclays seat over 18,000, but as a new state of the art NBA arena it has all the modern comforts and amenities that make it attractive as well:

https://theacc.com/news/2018/9/6/general...sites.aspx
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2018 11:22 AM by quo vadis.)
10-13-2018 11:18 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:18 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Yes Barclays is “new”but seats about 17,500 for basketball and is the the second or third smallest in the nba, depending on source. * There is a reason why Barclays “record attendance” was 18,000, and that was for a concert with floor seating. And it’s not just because the nets suck.

FWIW, the ACC says it drew more than 18,000 at Barclays for its finals sessions during the 2018 tournament:

"Barclays Center recently completed a successful two-year run as the Tournament host site, setting attendance records in both 2017 and 2018. Last year, the ACC set a record for attendance at a college basketball event at Barclays Center with 18,157 fans at both the semifinals on Friday night and the championship game on Saturday evening."

I'm just not down with calling an arena that seats at least 18,000 for college hoops tournament "small". We're talking about a conference tournament here, not the Final 4 or the Super Bowl.

Especially when the ACC, historically the best-attended tournament, enjoyed playing at Barclays in 2017 and 2018, Swofford calls Barclays a "great arena" and just last month signed a deal to play the event there in 2022, the first year they could as the A10 has it the next three years.

And that's probably where "newness" kicks in: Not only does Barclays seat over 18,000, but as a new state of the art NBA arena it has all the modern comforts and amenities that make it attractive as well:

https://theacc.com/news/2018/9/6/general...sites.aspx

Yea, the idea that Barclay's is small is just categorically wrong. It's not enormous, but it's plenty big and a lot of newer professional arenas are sacrificing some capacity for nicer amenities and more luxury seating as a result of the in-home experience being better and better. Like I said, if you're going to complain about Barclay's capacity, you should also be making the case that the B1G shouldn't be holding its tournament in Indianapolis either, due to insufficient facilities.
10-13-2018 01:24 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:18 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Yes Barclays is “new”but seats about 17,500 for basketball and is the the second or third smallest in the nba, depending on source. * There is a reason why Barclays “record attendance” was 18,000, and that was for a concert with floor seating. And it’s not just because the nets suck.

FWIW, the ACC says it drew more than 18,000 at Barclays for its finals sessions during the 2018 tournament:

"Barclays Center recently completed a successful two-year run as the Tournament host site, setting attendance records in both 2017 and 2018. Last year, the ACC set a record for attendance at a college basketball event at Barclays Center with 18,157 fans at both the semifinals on Friday night and the championship game on Saturday evening."

I'm just not down with calling an arena that seats at least 18,000 for college hoops tournament "small". We're talking about a conference tournament here, not the Final 4 or the Super Bowl.


Barclays itself lists the Springsteen concert as the record holder at 18k, not me. That said standing room and press seats can add a few hundred (Nearly arena’s record attendance is higher than its listed capacity, so 600 over capacity would not be uncommon: the MSG record is about 1500 over its lists capacity). But first this was listed in comparison to MSG, which was the contest of my post. Second with a capacity less than 13 teams from the ACC/B10/BE teams that have used the area (and 20 teams overall), It's worth mentioning. Especially hot tournaments where tickets are at a premium.


(10-13-2018 01:24 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, the idea that Barclay's is small is just categorically wrong. It's not enormous, but it's plenty big and a lot of newer professional arenas are sacrificing some capacity for nicer amenities and more luxury seating as a result of the in-home experience being better and better. Like I said, if you're going to complain about Barclay's capacity, you should also be making the case that the B1G shouldn't be holding its tournament in Indianapolis either, due to insufficient facilities.

If the arena is he second smallest in the nba, and with the exception of the acc home base, nearly every major conference tourney is held at an nba or nhl arena, then calling the second smallest nba arena and third smallest nba/nhl home arena is not “categorically” small, when it was stated in comparison to msg, which holds almost 20% more people, is accurate.


Let me just give you the list of pro arenas in the Big Ten/Big East/ACC markets

If you can’t understand how the smallest pro arena in any market remotely associated with a big ten or even ACC market (B10 conference tourney will be in a pro arena) would be labled “small,” I can’t help you with that. Here, let me give you a list of the arenas in major cities in the covered area:
  • Capacity Arena Location Team(s) Opened
    35,446 Carrier Dome Syracuse, NY Syracuse 1980
    23,500 Greensboro Colesium Greensboro, NC ACC Tourney 1959
    23,500 Rupp Arena Lexington, KY Kentucky men[i] 1976
    22,090 KFC YUM Center Louisville, KY Louisville 2010
    22,000 Enterprise Center St. Louis, Missouri St. Louis Blues 1994
    21,750 Chapel Hill NC North Carolina Men 1986
    20,917 United Center Chicago, Illinois Chicago Bulls 1994
    20,737 BB&T Center Sunrise, Florida Florida Panthers 1998
    20,562 Quicken Loans Arena Cleveland, Ohio Cleveland Cavaliers 1994
    20,500 Amalie Arena Tampa, Florida Tampa Bay Lightning 1996
    20,491 Little Caesars Arena Detroit, Michigan Detroit Pistons 2017
    20,356 Capital One Arena Washington, D.C. Washington Wizards 1997
    20,328 Wells Fargo Center Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Philadelphia 76ers 1996
    19,812 Madison Square Garden New York, New York New York Knicks 2017
    19,722 PNC Arena Raleigh, North Carolina Carolina Hurricanes 1999
    19,600 American Airlines Arena Miami, Florida Miami Heat 1999
    19,500 Nationwide Arena Columbus, Ohio Columbus Blue Jackets 2000
    19,200 KeyBank Center Buffalo, New York Buffalo Sabres 1996
    19,100 PPG Paints Arena Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Pittsburgh Penguins 2010
    19,077 Spectrum Center Charlotte, North Carolina Charlotte Hornets 2005
    18,978 Target Center Minneapolis, Minnesota Minnesota Timberwolves 1990
    18,885 Freedom Hall Louisville, KY Louisville 1956
    18,846 Amway Center Orlando, Florida Orlando Magic 2010
    18809 Value City Arena Ohio State Columbus, OH 1998
    18,711 Prudential Center Newark, New Jersey New Jersey Devils 2007
    18,624 TD Garden Boston, Massachusetts Boston Celtics 1995
    18,200 Xcel Energy Center Saint Paul, Minnesota Minnesota Wild 2000
    18,119 FedExForum Memphis Memphis men 2004
    18,118 State Farm Arena Atlanta, Georgia Atlanta Hawks 1999
    18,000 Colonial Life Arena Columbia South Carolina 2002
    17,950 Xfinity Center College Park Maryland 2002
    17,923 Bankers Life Fieldhouse Indianapolis, Indiana Indiana Pacers 1999
    17,500 Fiserv Forum Milwaukee, Wisconsin Milwaukee Bucks 2018
    17,500 Fiserv Forum Milwaukee Marquette men 2018
    17,500 Barclays Center Brooklyn, New York Brooklyn Nets 2012
    17,472 Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall Bloomington Indiana 1971
    17,249 Kohl Center Madison Wisconsin 1998

*Note total basketball capacity listed, which may vary from NBA or hockey capacities listed.


I am just saying, of ALL of the markets the Big Ten, ACC, or Big East would choose, Barclays has a "small" capacity when compared to every other suitable (And even some unsuitable) arenas.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2018 02:28 PM by adcorbett.)
10-13-2018 02:24 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 02:24 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:18 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Yes Barclays is “new”but seats about 17,500 for basketball and is the the second or third smallest in the nba, depending on source. * There is a reason why Barclays “record attendance” was 18,000, and that was for a concert with floor seating. And it’s not just because the nets suck.

FWIW, the ACC says it drew more than 18,000 at Barclays for its finals sessions during the 2018 tournament:

"Barclays Center recently completed a successful two-year run as the Tournament host site, setting attendance records in both 2017 and 2018. Last year, the ACC set a record for attendance at a college basketball event at Barclays Center with 18,157 fans at both the semifinals on Friday night and the championship game on Saturday evening."

I'm just not down with calling an arena that seats at least 18,000 for college hoops tournament "small". We're talking about a conference tournament here, not the Final 4 or the Super Bowl.


Barclays itself lists the Springsteen concert as the record holder at 18k, not me. That said standing room and press seats can add a few hundred (Nearly arena’s record attendance is higher than its listed capacity, so 600 over capacity would not be uncommon: the MSG record is about 1500 over its lists capacity). But first this was listed in comparison to MSG, which was the contest of my post. Second with a capacity less than 13 teams from the ACC/B10/BE teams that have used the area (and 20 teams overall), It's worth mentioning. Especially hot tournaments where tickets are at a premium.


(10-13-2018 01:24 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, the idea that Barclay's is small is just categorically wrong. It's not enormous, but it's plenty big and a lot of newer professional arenas are sacrificing some capacity for nicer amenities and more luxury seating as a result of the in-home experience being better and better. Like I said, if you're going to complain about Barclay's capacity, you should also be making the case that the B1G shouldn't be holding its tournament in Indianapolis either, due to insufficient facilities.

If the arena is he second smallest in the nba, and with the exception of the acc home base, nearly every major conference tourney is held at an nba or nhl arena, then calling the second smallest nba arena and third smallest nba/nhl home arena is not “categorically” small, when it was stated in comparison to msg, which holds almost 20% more people, is accurate.


Let me just give you the list of pro arenas in the Big Ten/Big East/ACC markets

If you can’t understand how the smallest pro arena in any market remotely associated with a big ten or even ACC market (B10 conference tourney will be in a pro arena) would be labled “small,” I can’t help you with that. Here, let me give you a list of the arenas in major cities in the covered area:
  • Arena Location Team(s) Capacity Opened
    Carrier Dome Syracuse, NY Syracuse 35,446 1980
    Greensboro Colesium Greensboro, NC ACC Tourney 23,500 1959
    Rupp Arena Lexington, KY Kentucky men[i] 23,500 1976
    KFC YUM Center Louisville, KY Louisville 22,090 2010
    Enterprise Center St. Louis, Missouri St. Louis Blues 22,000 1994
    Chapel Hill NC North Carolina Men 21,750 1986
    United Center Chicago, Illinois Chicago Bulls 20,917 1994
    BB&T Center Sunrise, Florida Florida Panthers 20,737 1998
    Quicken Loans Arena Cleveland, Ohio Cleveland Cavaliers 20,562 1994
    Amalie Arena Tampa, Florida Tampa Bay Lightning 20,500 1996
    Little Caesars Arena Detroit, Michigan Detroit Pistons 20,491 2017
    Capital One Arena Washington, D.C. Washington Wizards 20,356 1997
    Wells Fargo Center Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Philadelphia 76ers 20,328 1996
    Madison Square Garden New York, New York New York Knicks 19,812 2017
    PNC Arena Raleigh, North Carolina Carolina Hurricanes 19,722 1999
    American Airlines Arena Miami, Florida Miami Heat 19,600 1999
    Nationwide Arena Columbus, Ohio Columbus Blue Jackets 19,500 2000
    KeyBank Center Buffalo, New York Buffalo Sabres 19,200 1996
    PPG Paints Arena Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Pittsburgh Penguins 19,100 2010
    Spectrum Center Charlotte, North Carolina Charlotte Hornets 19,077 2005
    Target Center Minneapolis, Minnesota Minnesota Timberwolves 18,978 1990
    Freedom Hall Louisville, KY Louisville 18,885 1956
    Amway Center Orlando, Florida Orlando Magic 18,846 2010
    Value City Arena Ohio State Columbus, OH 18809 1998
    Prudential Center Newark, New Jersey New Jersey Devils 18,711 2007
    TD Garden Boston, Massachusetts Boston Celtics 18,624 1995
    Xcel Energy Center Saint Paul, Minnesota Minnesota Wild 18,200 2000
    FedExForum Memphis Memphis men 18,119 2004
    State Farm Arena Atlanta, Georgia Atlanta Hawks 18,118 1999
    Colonial Life Arena Columbia South Carolina 18,000 2002
    Xfinity Center College Park Maryland 17,950 2002
    Bankers Life Fieldhouse Indianapolis, Indiana Indiana Pacers 17,923 1999
    Fiserv Forum Milwaukee, Wisconsin Milwaukee Bucks 17,500 2018
    Fiserv Forum Milwaukee Marquette men 17,500 2018
    Barclays Center Brooklyn, New York New York Islanders 17,500 2012
    Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall Bloomington Indiana 17,472 1971
    Kohl Center Madison Wisconsin 17,249 1998

*Note total basketball capacity listed, which may vary from NBA or hockey capacities listed.


I am just saying, of ALL of the markets the Big Ten, ACC, or Big East would choose, Barclays has a "small" capacity when compared to every other suitable (And even some unsuitable) arenas.

Then start talking about how it's a mistake to hold the conference tournament in Indianapolis as well. 17 and change is adequate in the absolute heart of the conference but it's not adequate in an outlier location with no major athletic presence nearby?

FYI - the actual difference between MSG set up for a college tourney and Barclay's is about 9%. Single-digit percentage point differences aren't the demarcation between what you'd like and something being "very" small. You're talking like Barclays seats 12k.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2018 02:30 PM by Bogg.)
10-13-2018 02:26 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 02:26 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Then start talking about how it's a mistake to hold the conference tournament in Indianapolis as well. 17 and change is adequate in the absolute heart of the conference but it's not adequate in an outlier location with no major athletic presence nearby?

You realize my original comment was "Brooklyn’s arena is nice (albeit very small) but it’s not located in the middle of manhattan." You made it a point that the arena wasn't small. Now you see that is mistaken so you change the subject. I don;t play that game.

In Indy, the arena is both in the ideal location within that city AND it is in the middle of the geographical footprint fo the Big Ten. That is why it is their 1A to Chicago. They don't sell enough to fill out the dome, so it's the next best option when not in Chicago. In NY, Barclays is neither in the middle of the city NOR the biggest arena nor the most prominent. It really defeats a big chunk of the purpose of being in NYC, ESPECIALLY if you are having to do it off the traditional tourney week like they had to with MSG.

In addition, to my original point, it is currently the fourth largest arena in the general vicinity (behind MSG, The Rock, and the IZOD center, and soon to be the fifth largest when the Islanders arena in Belmont opens in two years). When I said it was "small," it was in reference to other major arenas AND to other arenas within the city. Hence the statement you so objected to "Brooklyn’s arena is nice (albeit very small)."

If you don't think the size of the arena is a problem, that is a matter of opinion, and you are more than entitled to feel that way. But you made the point of attacking the point about the arena size, when I pointed it out, but my point was accurate. That is all.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2018 02:53 PM by adcorbett.)
10-13-2018 02:36 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 02:36 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 02:26 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Then start talking about how it's a mistake to hold the conference tournament in Indianapolis as well. 17 and change is adequate in the absolute heart of the conference but it's not adequate in an outlier location with no major athletic presence nearby?

You realize my original comment was "Brooklyn’s arena is nice (albeit very small) but it’s not located in the middle of manhattan." You made it a point that the arena wasn't small. Now you see that is mistaken so you change the subject. I don;t play that game.

In Indy, the arena is both in the ideal location within that city AND it is in the middle of the geographical footprint fo the Big Ten. That is why it is their 1A to Chicago. They don't sell enough to fill out the dome, so it's the next best option when not in Chicago. In NY, Barclays is neither in the middle of the city NOR the biggest arena nor the most prominent. It really defeats a big chunk of the purpose of being in NYC, ESPECIALLY if you are having to do it off the traditional tourney week like they had to with MSG.

In addition, to my original point, it is currently the fourth largest arena in the general vicinity (behind MSG, The Rock, and the IZOD center, and soon to be the fifth largest when the Islanders arena in Belmont opens in two years). When I said it was "small," it was in reference to other major arenas AND to other arenas within the city. Hence the statement you so objected to "Brooklyn’s arena is nice (albeit very small)."

If you don't think the size of the arena is a problem, that is a matter of opinion, and you are more than entitled to feel that way. But you made the point of attacking the point about the arena size, when I pointed it out, but my point was accurate. That is all.

Your contention is that it is "very" small - it's an NBA arena that seats over 18k and its size outstrips the demonstrated demand the B1G has for tickets in New York. It's a 9% difference between Barclays and MSG. In no world does that make it unusably small.
10-13-2018 03:15 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 10:49 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 09:14 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  To heck with the BIG. I do not keep up with the MBB too much but do remember that the BE has full crowds at MSG. It would be a shame to change that.

That is far more true of the prior version of the Big East and the last two years of the current Big East. The current version of the Big East stumbled a bit in terms of attendance its first three years at MSG.

Like anything else, it takes time to build, just see the ACC's attendance at Barclays or the Big Ten's attendance at Verizon (which is now Capitol One).

Cheers,
Neil

Can you point me to the website?
10-13-2018 03:28 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 03:15 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Your contention is that it is "very" small - it's an NBA arena that seats over 18k and its size outstrips the demonstrated demand the B1G has for tickets in New York. It's a 9% difference between Barclays and MSG. In no world does that make it unusably small.

Yes, the notion that an arena that seats 18,000+ for basketball is "very small" just cannot be justified. 07-coffee3
10-13-2018 04:31 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
After a couple of days to digest Delaney's comments, and as a Big East fan, I am not terribly worried about the B1G's Northeast aspirations.

The B1G, despite any attempts and/or efforts, will always be a Midwestern conference. The core of the league, especially for basketball, is centered around Chicago and Indianapolis. They have been incredibly successful going back and forth between those sites, and it would be a negative to regularly move away from the heart of your league. When they held their tournament in D.C., it was not as successful as when the ACC held their's there, and - similarly - when they held their event in NYC, it was not as successful as when the Big East held/holds their's there. The B1G will not be able to squeeze out the Big East, even on an occasional basis, simply due to the fact that the Big East has been incredibly successful there (even arguable that is has been more successful), even in its reorganization, and due to St. Johns (a Big East member) being the major college basketball tenant of the facility. The only compromise would be if the Big East and B1G arranged a partnership to co-host their tournaments concurrently on a semi-annual basis. I sincerely doubt that the B1G would try and get the ACC in on such a deal, simply because if they are trying to capture NYC market, you do not want another fellow power conference encroaching on your territory.

I also do not think that the B1G views the Big East as a threat, and I would even argue that the B1G positively views the Big East as a strong partner. The Big East is very similar to the B1G in terms of its league membership. While the B1G is composed of land grant, state institutions, the Big East is composed of Private, Catholic institutions. They have an overlap of similar regions, and many of their teams play each other OOC in Olympic sports. Finally, Val Ackerman has a strong relationship with Delaney dating back to her days with USA Basketball. I find it hard to believe that Delaney would attempt to cut out the Big East of NYC, considering all of these hurdles.

Ultimately, I think a partnership between the B1G and Big East with regards to their basketball tournaments is most certainly feasible. It would most likely involve an extension of the Gavitt Games, one that would likely require stronger matchups, and a financial incentive on behalf of MSG and the Big East to make sharing their space during this time worthwhile (which would be very attractive, IMO).

Alternatively, if MSG desires more games for the Big East Tournament, there are current like-minded institutions/peers of current Big East membership, that has strong NYC alumni and traveling fan bases, that would elevate the attendance figures and expand the conference in Dayton and Saint Louis, but that's a completely different topic altogether. I would not be shocked at all if that was also considered in advance of the Big East's next television deal.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2018 05:29 PM by GoldenWarrior11.)
10-13-2018 05:28 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 05:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  After a couple of days to digest Delaney's comments, and as a Big East fan, I am not terribly worried about the B1G's Northeast aspirations.

The B1G, despite any attempts and/or efforts, will always be a Midwestern conference. The core of the league, especially for basketball, is centered around Chicago and Indianapolis. They have been incredibly successful going back and forth between those sites, and it would be a negative to regularly move away from the heart of your league. When they held their tournament in D.C., it was not as successful as when the ACC held their's there, and - similarly - when they held their event in NYC, it was not as successful as when the Big East held/holds their's there. The B1G will not be able to squeeze out the Big East, even on an occasional basis, simply due to the fact that the Big East has been incredibly successful there (even arguable that is has been more successful), even in its reorganization, and due to St. Johns (a Big East member) being the major college basketball tenant of the facility. The only compromise would be if the Big East and B1G arranged a partnership to co-host their tournaments concurrently on a semi-annual basis. I sincerely doubt that the B1G would try and get the ACC in on such a deal, simply because if they are trying to capture NYC market, you do not want another fellow power conference encroaching on your territory.

I also do not think that the B1G views the Big East as a threat, and I would even argue that the B1G positively views the Big East as a strong partner. The Big East is very similar to the B1G in terms of its league membership. While the B1G is composed of land grant, state institutions, the Big East is composed of Private, Catholic institutions. They have an overlap of similar regions, and many of their teams play each other OOC in Olympic sports. Finally, Val Ackerman has a strong relationship with Delaney dating back to her days with USA Basketball. I find it hard to believe that Delaney would attempt to cut out the Big East of NYC, considering all of these hurdles.

Ultimately, I think a partnership between the B1G and Big East with regards to their basketball tournaments is most certainly feasible. It would most likely involve an extension of the Gavitt Games, one that would likely require stronger matchups, and a financial incentive on behalf of MSG and the Big East to make sharing their space during this time worthwhile (which would be very attractive, IMO).

Alternatively, if MSG desires more games for the Big East Tournament, there are current like-minded institutions/peers of current Big East membership, that has strong NYC alumni and traveling fan bases, that would elevate the attendance figures and expand the conference in Dayton and Saint Louis, but that's a completely different topic altogether. I would not be shocked at all if that was also considered in advance of the Big East's next television deal.

VCU filled Barclays for the A-10 tourny...jus' sayin' 07-coffee3
10-13-2018 05:54 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-13-2018 03:28 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:49 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 09:14 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  To heck with the BIG. I do not keep up with the MBB too much but do remember that the BE has full crowds at MSG. It would be a shame to change that.

That is far more true of the prior version of the Big East and the last two years of the current Big East. The current version of the Big East stumbled a bit in terms of attendance its first three years at MSG.

Like anything else, it takes time to build, just see the ACC's attendance at Barclays or the Big Ten's attendance at Verizon (which is now Capitol One).

Cheers,
Neil

Can you point me to the website?

Sure. Compare the attendance listed for 2014, 2015, and 2016 with the last two years of 2017 and 2018 and you will see the increase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Big_E...Tournament

The link above goes to the 2014 year, after reviewing it click on the next year's and so on.

The Big East prior (when it included UConn, SU, Louisville, WVU, Pitt with the likes of Nova, Marquette, Georgetown, St. John's, etc.) usually averaged 20,057 every session between 2007-2012 when max capacity was 19,763.

Again, these things take time.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2018 05:49 AM by OrangeDude.)
10-14-2018 05:48 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 05:48 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 03:28 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:49 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 09:14 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  To heck with the BIG. I do not keep up with the MBB too much but do remember that the BE has full crowds at MSG. It would be a shame to change that.

That is far more true of the prior version of the Big East and the last two years of the current Big East. The current version of the Big East stumbled a bit in terms of attendance its first three years at MSG.

Like anything else, it takes time to build, just see the ACC's attendance at Barclays or the Big Ten's attendance at Verizon (which is now Capitol One).

Cheers,
Neil

Can you point me to the website?

Sure. Compare the attendance listed for 2014, 2015, and 2016 with the last two years of 2017 and 2018 and you will see the increase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Big_E...Tournament

The link above goes to the 2014 year, after reviewing it click on the next year's and so on.

The Big East prior (when it included UConn, SU, Louisville, WVU, Pitt ...

As well as the current Big East has done in all phases - and it's really outkicked the coverage - it's not reasonable to compare it to the pre-2014 Big East that had those schools you mention, and it never will be.
10-14-2018 05:53 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 05:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 05:48 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 03:28 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:49 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 09:14 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  To heck with the BIG. I do not keep up with the MBB too much but do remember that the BE has full crowds at MSG. It would be a shame to change that.

That is far more true of the prior version of the Big East and the last two years of the current Big East. The current version of the Big East stumbled a bit in terms of attendance its first three years at MSG.

Like anything else, it takes time to build, just see the ACC's attendance at Barclays or the Big Ten's attendance at Verizon (which is now Capitol One).

Cheers,
Neil

Can you point me to the website?

Sure. Compare the attendance listed for 2014, 2015, and 2016 with the last two years of 2017 and 2018 and you will see the increase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Big_E...Tournament

The link above goes to the 2014 year, after reviewing it click on the next year's and so on.

The Big East prior (when it included UConn, SU, Louisville, WVU, Pitt ...

As well as the current Big East has done in all phases - and it's really outkicked the coverage - it's not reasonable to compare it to the pre-2014 Big East that had those schools you mention, and it never will be.

I was showing how the new Big East has grown in popularity over the first five years in terms of attendance at MSG. This past year they averaged 18,790 per session, which is great. My giving the prior Big East numbers was serving as a legitimate point of reference to how far they have come.

However, while saying this, Delany (perhaps delusional) seems to believe that he has a promotional plan involving conferences (plural) that will allow his league access to MSG during championship week a certain number of times over an undetermined rotation of years.

I wouldn't discount the possibility that since FOX owns the Big East and has a 51% share of the BTN that a deal might be worked out between the two conferences where the Big East tournament goes to the Midwest two years out of 'x' years while the Big Ten goes to MSG those two years.

It's a hard sell and the ACC could counter (if it chooses to do so) with something more drastic. But it's all just message board talk at this point in time.

Cheers,
Neil
10-14-2018 06:22 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 06:22 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 05:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 05:48 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 03:28 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 10:49 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  That is far more true of the prior version of the Big East and the last two years of the current Big East. The current version of the Big East stumbled a bit in terms of attendance its first three years at MSG.

Like anything else, it takes time to build, just see the ACC's attendance at Barclays or the Big Ten's attendance at Verizon (which is now Capitol One).

Cheers,
Neil

Can you point me to the website?

Sure. Compare the attendance listed for 2014, 2015, and 2016 with the last two years of 2017 and 2018 and you will see the increase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Big_E...Tournament

The link above goes to the 2014 year, after reviewing it click on the next year's and so on.

The Big East prior (when it included UConn, SU, Louisville, WVU, Pitt ...

As well as the current Big East has done in all phases - and it's really outkicked the coverage - it's not reasonable to compare it to the pre-2014 Big East that had those schools you mention, and it never will be.

I was showing how the new Big East has grown in popularity over the first five years in terms of attendance at MSG. This past year they averaged 18,790 per session, which is great. My giving the prior Big East numbers was serving as a legitimate point of reference to how far they have come.

However, while saying this, Delany (perhaps delusional) seems to believe that he has a promotional plan involving conferences (plural) that will allow his league access to MSG during championship week a certain number of times over an undetermined rotation of years.

I wouldn't discount the possibility that since FOX owns the Big East and has a 51% share of the BTN that a deal might be worked out between the two conferences where the Big East tournament goes to the Midwest two years out of 'x' years while the Big Ten goes to MSG those two years.

It's a hard sell and the ACC could counter (if it chooses to do so) with something more drastic. But it's all just message board talk at this point in time.

Cheers,
Neil

I think the ACC is very happy with Barclays. Swofford has talked about building an ACC tradition at that venue.

As for the B1G, as a Big East fan I am in favor of us always saying NO DEAL to any suggestion that we ever play our tournament anywhere but MSG. That is a core aspect of our identity.

That said, money does talk, and the B1G might be able to throw so much money at MSG and/or the Big East that it simply might be too much for us to refuse. So i could see us giving way some years under that circumstance.
10-14-2018 10:35 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 10:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 06:22 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 05:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 05:48 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-13-2018 03:28 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  Can you point me to the website?

Sure. Compare the attendance listed for 2014, 2015, and 2016 with the last two years of 2017 and 2018 and you will see the increase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Big_E...Tournament

The link above goes to the 2014 year, after reviewing it click on the next year's and so on.

The Big East prior (when it included UConn, SU, Louisville, WVU, Pitt ...

As well as the current Big East has done in all phases - and it's really outkicked the coverage - it's not reasonable to compare it to the pre-2014 Big East that had those schools you mention, and it never will be.

I was showing how the new Big East has grown in popularity over the first five years in terms of attendance at MSG. This past year they averaged 18,790 per session, which is great. My giving the prior Big East numbers was serving as a legitimate point of reference to how far they have come.

However, while saying this, Delany (perhaps delusional) seems to believe that he has a promotional plan involving conferences (plural) that will allow his league access to MSG during championship week a certain number of times over an undetermined rotation of years.

I wouldn't discount the possibility that since FOX owns the Big East and has a 51% share of the BTN that a deal might be worked out between the two conferences where the Big East tournament goes to the Midwest two years out of 'x' years while the Big Ten goes to MSG those two years.

It's a hard sell and the ACC could counter (if it chooses to do so) with something more drastic. But it's all just message board talk at this point in time.

Cheers,
Neil

I think the ACC is very happy with Barclays. Swofford has talked about building an ACC tradition at that venue.

As for the B1G, as a Big East fan I am in favor of us always saying NO DEAL to any suggestion that we ever play our tournament anywhere but MSG. That is a core aspect of our identity.

That said, money does talk, and the B1G might be able to throw so much money at MSG and/or the Big East that it simply might be too much for us to refuse. So i could see us giving way some years under that circumstance.

Well anything is possible. If Delany did pull it off I seriously doubt it will help the league the way he imagines. But he has proven many wrong in the past. If he is successful in both getting to MSG and having it do for the league what he hopes it will, the ball will be in the ACC's hands to respond at that time.

Cheers,
Neil
10-14-2018 12:11 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
Delany should have added UConn if he wants MSG.

07-coffee3
10-14-2018 12:31 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 12:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Delany should have added UConn if he wants MSG.

07-coffee3

The special thing about the NYC-college basketball market is that it is not owned by one school. Many programs have a piece of the market, and when you had a league like the old Big East, you had many different institutions that all brought great fan bases to the Big East Tournament. Between Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Pittsburgh, Villanova, Boston College, St. Johns, Providence and Seton Hall, there were nine schools that were close in proximity to MSG and had strong alumni numbers in NYC. Toss in Rutgers and other later-added programs that carried strong basketball programs and fan bases in Notre Dame, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette, and you had an elite basketball conference with a pinnacle tournament event at the end of the season.

The B1G and the ACC can try all they want to recreate the magic that the Big East once had in New York City, but neither will be able to duplicate it. The B1G is still a Midwestern-based conference, with really only Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State representing the East Coast. The ACC, while acquiring Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame, will still be driven by the Tobacco Road contingent. Neither conference will be able to annually hold their tournaments in New York City, and the fact that neither will do so only proves that its pursuits of capturing the area will be fruitless.
10-14-2018 01:08 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 01:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The B1G is still a Midwestern-based conference, with really only Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State representing the East Coast.

It doesn't help that Maryland's the only competent basketball program out of the three, either.
10-14-2018 02:23 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Big Ten's Delany wants MSG for basketball tourney
(10-14-2018 01:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(10-14-2018 12:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Delany should have added UConn if he wants MSG.

07-coffee3

The special thing about the NYC-college basketball market is that it is not owned by one school. Many programs have a piece of the market, and when you had a league like the old Big East, you had many different institutions that all brought great fan bases to the Big East Tournament. Between Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Pittsburgh, Villanova, Boston College, St. Johns, Providence and Seton Hall, there were nine schools that were close in proximity to MSG and had strong alumni numbers in NYC. Toss in Rutgers and other later-added programs that carried strong basketball programs and fan bases in Notre Dame, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette, and you had an elite basketball conference with a pinnacle tournament event at the end of the season.

The B1G and the ACC can try all they want to recreate the magic that the Big East once had in New York City, but neither will be able to duplicate it. The B1G is still a Midwestern-based conference, with really only Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State representing the East Coast. The ACC, while acquiring Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame, will still be driven by the Tobacco Road contingent. Neither conference will be able to annually hold their tournaments in New York City, and the fact that neither will do so only proves that its pursuits of capturing the area will be fruitless.

MSG and the Big East is what the Rose Bowl is to the Big Ten and Pac-12. Sure the SEC and Big XII can have a game there but it won’t feel like a true Rose Bowl game.

Having the B1G Tournament this year a week earlier than most felt small time to me. If Delany wants to think outside the box, have it in Las Vegas. 05-stirthepot
10-14-2018 02:35 PM
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