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Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-19-2018 07:55 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(10-19-2018 01:49 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  couldn't they jazz up the league
put 20 franchice in real cities [Buffalo, Jackinville, Tampa ]

That might be the direction the G League will be heading towards if they want to attract big prospects.
Most of the G League teams are owned or affiliated with a single NBA team, so each team wants to keep expenses down by having their teams close to their main club
10-19-2018 08:47 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
the idea would be to build the league up to make money
10-19-2018 09:23 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-18-2018 04:48 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-18-2018 04:15 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Just abolish one and done already. Let college hoops become amateurish again.

-- Abolishing one and done will mean that players can go straight from HS into the NBA draft. Players who spend one season (or 2, 3, or 4) playing college hoops will still be able to enter the NBA draft. When the NBA gets around to changing its rule, they will likely just drop the draft-eligible age from 19 to 18.

-- Even *if* the 20 best HS players every year opted for the NBA draft and/or G League out of HS, the multimillion dollar college coaches and the multimillion dollar teams that employ them are still going to want the best available players to play for their team and will still use the tools they now use to get those players. Coach K is still going to use whatever means he uses now (which the NCAA will never investigate) to land the best available players. Bill Self is still going to tell his adidas rep "I just need a couple of real guys". Coaches at Louisville or Miami or Arizona or LSU are still going to close their office door to talk to their shoe reps and other insiders, and get "help" in landing players who can help them win more games and go farther in March.

If I'm an agent, I don't want Sir Star to go to the G League. It is a superior development process (I mean what do you really demonstrate playing at Kentucky in a filler game against Alabama A&M?) but you run the risk of maybe being exposed as not that great if you have to play all your games against roughly NBA caliber opponents instead of facing a lot of people who won't be playing any place but church league after graduation.

If I'm a GM of an NBA team, and I've got fairly similar evaluations and one is a college freshman and the other has a year of G League, I'm taking the G League guy because he has less to adjust to.

If lottery picks are going to G League and freshmen are further down in the draft, everyone is going to figure out they need to go G League.

If the freshmen are getting the lottery picks then why go to G League unless you are a marginal prospect.
10-19-2018 09:56 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
At some point, and probably by the 2022 draft, the NCAA is going to have to come to some consensus about what they really want. If they don't want one-and-done, and it appears they don't, what would they prefer?

Would they rather that all elite players go pro immediately? The NCAA could force their hand by enacting some form of freshman ineligible rule to take away the incentive to use college solely for their personal gain.

Would they be happy with a two year minimum? It looks like that could be part of the NBA's move toward eliminating one-and-done from their side.

Will they insist on pure amateurism as a price for playing in the NCAA? Or will they allow players to capitalize on their image and future earning potential as long as the schools themselves don't pay them directly beyond the current scholarship benefits?

It won't be the G-league salary that will pull the elite basketball players away. That's not enough even at $125K to offset the lack of exposure and substandard lifestyle compared to college life. It will be the money they can get from apparel companies and agents.

Which would those apparel companies prefer? Do they want to spend the big bucks on a kid that only hundreds of fans will see during their time in the G-league? Or do they want those kids wearing their gear on the big stage the NCAA provides, watched by millions?

The genie seems to be out of the bottle now. He's not going back. We don't know what will happen - just that something of major consequence is now inevitable.
10-19-2018 12:25 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
A good idea about the NBA's G League proposal from this article in The Athletic on Friday:

Quote:I spoke with an NBA executive who spent the day after the announcement was made thinking about the best way to set these kids up for success. He has significant experience with his organization’s G League team and knows what ills can befall kids placed in that setting. He, like many, still has questions about what the league is going to do with these kids. He’s concerned about the league potentially just passing these kids out to teams randomly and worried about them fitting into the culture of a normal G League situation with 25-year-old NBA washouts and with them being in situations with no oversight.

So in that vein, the NBA Executive proposed this: instead of allocating these players around the league, the NBA itself creates a program with 10-12 of the best high school players in the class, puts them on a single team, pays them this $125,000 salary each, and has them compete in the G League. They would be headquartered somewhere like New York City or Los Angeles so as to make it easier for them to transition into pre-draft training when the season ended. Prior to and during the season, they would be fostered with teachers and mentors, centralizing the entire operation instead of spreading everyone out.

This looks like a better way to go than giving each G League team one 18-year-old player who might not even beat out his own teammates for playing time.

Building on this idea, though it would cost the NBA more money: How about a mini G League, 6 to 8 teams, that is limited to players under the age of 20? That eliminates the downside of these younger players playing with and against much older G League guys. And don't scatter the teams throughout the country -- eliminate the travel grind by playing all of the league's games in the same metro area using 3 or 4 different arenas.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 05:08 PM by Wedge.)
10-19-2018 05:07 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-19-2018 05:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Building on this idea, though it would cost the NBA more money: How about a mini G League, 6 to 8 teams, that is limited to players under the age of 20? That eliminates the downside of these younger players playing with and against much older G League guys. And don't scatter the teams throughout the country -- eliminate the travel grind by playing all of the league's games in the same metro area using 3 or 4 different arenas.
With eight, you can have four in NY and four in LA ... plauing double headers, you play a round robin in a weekend, midweek weekend, fly NY teams to play LA teams in pairs of double headers, weekend midweek, weekend, fly home, another round of "conference" games, LA teams fly to NY for the eastern conference "home" round robin. That's two months. Then host "Senior" G league teams for a couple of months, then a second round in the prospects league, then a conference tournament.

Make it under 22, so younger prospects from overseas professional leagues and the best prospects that can't rig their grades for NCAA and are otherwise Juco bound, and may need two or three years of development, can also go. Every team has a share of the roster of on "Prospect G League" team, including their single $125k prospect.
10-19-2018 09:30 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-18-2018 03:03 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  No.

Because Duke has a bigger brand than the entire G league combined. A Nike "player" on Duke will get more exposure in one game for Duke than all of the G League combined.

You aren't going to see G League t-shirts nationwide - but you do see Duke t-shirts everywhere.

(10-18-2018 03:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This is correct.

Jayson Tatum played for a year at Duke, looked like a star against college kids, became the 3rd pick in last year's NBA draft, now stars with the Celtics, and helps Nike sell a lot of shoes and apparel.

If Tatum instead played a year with the Maine Red Claws in the G-League, he would have had much less hype and visibility when he was a Celtics rookie last season. Not to mention that he would have risked looking much less impressive against 22-26 year old G-League pros than he did against 18-21 college players, 90% of whom are not even close to being good enough for the G-League, let alone the NBA.

There are some players who would be well served to go straight to the G League, but not the five-star recruits who are "allegedly" getting six figures already from boosters, shoe companies, and street agents.

Players rarely, if ever, come out of NCAA ball as bankable commodities, and Tatum wasn't one of those guys. The bankable players who can move product are those regular NBA all-stars who get apparel lines built around their individual brand, and rookie deals are largely a pure numbers game where you hope to lock in the guys who are later worth investing much more in. You lock those guys in for their first few years as soon as possible, you don't leave them floating out there for Adidas and Under Armour and Puma and Chinese brands to sign because they beat you to the punch.

Someone like Tatum isn't considered an up-and-coming star because he lost in the second round to South Carolina two years ago, he's considered an up-and-coming star because of what he did at the NBA level, and more specifically what he did in the NBA playoffs last year. The 2017 NCAA season is functionally irrelevant when it comes to his value to Nike. The money to be made off of the Dukes of the world isn't in developing NBA stars, it's in selling Duke shirts, and that can be done with 3/4 year players who don't cost nearly as much.


(10-19-2018 09:23 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  the idea would be to build the league up to make money

Not at all. You guys are badly underrating the ability of NBA front office types to scout their own minor league. Ratings don't matter, and "household name" factors don't matter. The idea is to get guys in-house as soon as possible, put them in a professional environment with minimized distractions, and for the controlling team to get a better look at a young guy than the competing clubs. The NBA is fine with the G-league running a deficit forever if it's effective as a talent development tool.
10-19-2018 10:04 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #28
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-19-2018 05:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  A good idea about the NBA's G League proposal from this article in The Athletic on Friday:

Quote:I spoke with an NBA executive who spent the day after the announcement was made thinking about the best way to set these kids up for success. He has significant experience with his organization’s G League team and knows what ills can befall kids placed in that setting. He, like many, still has questions about what the league is going to do with these kids. He’s concerned about the league potentially just passing these kids out to teams randomly and worried about them fitting into the culture of a normal G League situation with 25-year-old NBA washouts and with them being in situations with no oversight.

So in that vein, the NBA Executive proposed this: instead of allocating these players around the league, the NBA itself creates a program with 10-12 of the best high school players in the class, puts them on a single team, pays them this $125,000 salary each, and has them compete in the G League. They would be headquartered somewhere like New York City or Los Angeles so as to make it easier for them to transition into pre-draft training when the season ended. Prior to and during the season, they would be fostered with teachers and mentors, centralizing the entire operation instead of spreading everyone out.

This looks like a better way to go than giving each G League team one 18-year-old player who might not even beat out his own teammates for playing time.

Building on this idea, though it would cost the NBA more money: How about a mini G League, 6 to 8 teams, that is limited to players under the age of 20? That eliminates the downside of these younger players playing with and against much older G League guys. And don't scatter the teams throughout the country -- eliminate the travel grind by playing all of the league's games in the same metro area using 3 or 4 different arenas.

Interesting idea, though you lose the potential benefit of "Crash Davis" mentor helping them out.

My solution is a third round to the NBA draft with players taken in the third round ineligible to play in the NBA in the upcoming season and the team holding the rights for a third round draftee would have until say April 20 to sign the guy to an NBA contract or they go into the draft. If you sign the guy to an NBA contract you lose your first round pick.

So Joe Star gets drafted by the Grizzlies in the third round on June 19, 2019. Plays the 2019-20 season for the Memphis Hustle G League team. After the G League season ends, the Grizzlies would have until April 20 to sign the player for the 2020-21 season, if they fail to sign, player goes into the draft, if they do sign, the Grizzlies lose their first round pick. If they have traded away their 2020 first round draft selection and don't have a first round selection, they can't sign the player.

That gives you a better shot at players landing in situations they fit.
10-20-2018 12:57 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-19-2018 10:04 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-19-2018 09:23 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  the idea would be to build the league up to make money

Not at all. You guys are badly underrating the ability of NBA front office types to scout their own minor league. Ratings don't matter, and "household name" factors don't matter. The idea is to get guys in-house as soon as possible, put them in a professional environment with minimized distractions, and for the controlling team to get a better look at a young guy than the competing clubs. The NBA is fine with the G-league running a deficit forever if it's effective as a talent development tool.

This is the biggest hurdle for a Professional Development League which consists of fewer than one team per NBA team ... multiple teams would have players on the same squad, and so share looks at guys. That's not directly for the proposed $125K prospects, so doesn't apply to the "team of pre-draft prospects" playing in the G League ... they are "pre-draft" and would be working for the NBA ... but it seems likely that it could well apply to others if there are multiple young development squads with rosters have to be rounded out with other young non-NCAA players.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2018 02:00 AM by BruceMcF.)
10-20-2018 01:55 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Challenge to the NCAA Monopoly
(10-20-2018 01:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  This is the biggest hurdle for a Professional Development League which consists of fewer than one team per NBA team ... multiple teams would have players on the same squad, and so share looks at guys.

We're quickly approaching a point where that's no longer true, as having a single-affiliate G-League team is now just regular business in the NBA. There are only three NBA franchises that don't already have their own exclusive affiliate and one of them, New Orleans, is actively working on establishing their own team. We're functionally at the point where only Denver and Portland aren't running their own G-League teams at this point.
10-20-2018 12:13 PM
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