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what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #1
what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
what would a confernece comprised of each states flagship athletic department look like?
In order to determine the flagship athletic department for each state I collected NCAA tournament results from each sport over the last 20 years 1998/99-2017/18. This data is available on ncca.org & wikipedia.
NOTE: for football the BCS top 25 final ranking and then then playoff final top 25 ranking was used.
NOTE: Did not include the NIT or any other non-NCAA tournament results.
NOTE: any school that participated in any NCAA sponsored tournament is included even if they play the majority of their sports in Division II. Alaska Fairbanks is an example of a school that is primarily division II but won 9 division I national championships.
A first place finish/national championship in any sport was awarded with 100pts, 2nd place with 99pts and so on. Some tournaments only have 4 teams while basketball has 68 (1st rd losers get 35pts).
All sports are scored the same, so a football national championship or a water polo national championship in any year are both worth 100 points.
All men and women sports are included in the year they are sponsored by the NCAA. Most sports were included each of the last 20 years, but there were a few new sports introduced like Beach Volleyball from 2015-2017.

The result was this list of the flagship athletic department for each state (and DC). The first number is the overall rank including all schools that participated in a NCAA tournament over the last 20 years.Ex.) Stanford ranked #1 easily and was the top school of the 26 California schools that played in at least 1 NCAA tournament over the last 20 seasons:

1 Stanford CA 01 26 #N=42 #T=487 SC=44005 Pac 12
2 North Carolina NC 01 20 #N=17 #T=402 SC=32764 ACC
3 Michigan MI 01 07 #N=7 #T=371 SC=31568 Big Ten
5 Ohio State OH 01 13 #N=11 #T=378 SC=31154 Big Ten
6 Florida FL 01 14 #N=23 #T=340 SC=30325 SEC
7 Texas TX 01 26 #N=16 #T=330 SC=28646 Big 12
8 Penn State PA 01 14 #N=26 #T=339 SC=28552 Big Ten
9 Notre Dame IN 01 09 #N=10 #T=335 SC=26881 ACC
10 Virginia VA 01 16 #N=14 #T=318 SC=26679 ACC
13 Minnesota MN 01 02 #N=12 #T=309 SC=25552 Big Ten
16 Georgia GA 01 08 #N=23 #T=282 SC=24424 SEC
17 Arizona State AZ 01 04 #N=8 #T=297 SC=24401 Pac 12
18 LSU LA 01 16 #N=13 #T=278 SC=23749 SEC
20 Washington WA 01 05 #N=6 #T=276 SC=22787 Pac 12
22 Wisconsin WI 01 04 #N=8 #T=269 SC=21984 Big Ten
23 Tennessee TN 01 13 #N=6 #T=266 SC=21885 SEC
24 Nebraska NE 01 03 #N=9 #T=257 SC=21485 Big Ten
25 Oklahoma OK 01 04 #N=17 #T=252 SC=20749 Big 12
26 Arkansas AR 01 05 #N=15 #T=244 SC=20566 SEC
27 Auburn AL 01 12 #N=13 #T=248 SC=20368 SEC
* 28 BYU UT 01 06 #N=7 #T=258 SC=19988 WCC
29 Kentucky KY 01 08 #N=3 #T=246 SC=19695 SEC
30 South Carolina SC 01 11 #N=4 #T=240 SC=19192 SEC
** 32 Princeton NJ 01 09 #N=5 #T=243 SC=18916 Ivy League
34 Illinois IL 01 17 #N=2 #T=227 SC=18248 Big Ten
35 Oregon OR 01 04 #N=20 #T=209 SC=17468 Pac 12
40 Maryland MD 01 11 #N=18 #T=198 SC=16211 Big Ten
41 Missouri MO 01 08 #N=0 #T=214 SC=15661 SEC
** 43 Harvard MA 01 07 #N=2 #T=198 SC=15107 Ivy League
47 Colorado CO 01 05 #N=12 #T=179 SC=14047 Pac 12
48 Iowa IA 01 04 #N=5 #T=180 SC=13832 Big Ten
* 55 New Mexico NM 01 02 #N=3 #T=152 SC=11378 Mountain West
57 Mississippi MS 01 05 #N=0 #T=151 SC=11138 SEC
58 West Virginia WV 01 02 #N=6 #T=140 SC=11011 Big 12
64 Syracuse NY 01 26 #N=8 #T=126 SC=10466 ACC
65 Kansas KS 01 03 #N=2 #T=138 SC=10439 Big 12
* 66 UConn CT 01 07 #N=18 #T=118 SC=9974 American
** 74 Dartmouth NH 01 02 #N=1 #T=107 SC=8649 Ivy League
* 78 Boise State ID 01 03 #N=0 #T=109 SC=7952 Mountain West
** 84 Providence RI 01 05 #N=2 #T=91 SC=7045 Big East
* 93 UNLV NV 01 02 #N=0 #T=96 SC=6567 Mountain West
* 94 Hawaii HI 01 01 #N=1 #T=81 SC=6548 Big West
**119 American DC 01 03 #N=0 #T=64 SC=4679 Patriot
*151 Wyoming WY 01 01 #N=0 #T=51 SC=3212 Mountain West
**162 Vermont VT 01 01 #N=1 #T=33 SC=2905 America East
**183 North Dakota State ND 01 02 #N=0 #T=43 SC=2577 Summit
**184 Montana State MT 01 02 #N=0 #T=33 SC=2549 Big Sky
**194 Delaware DE 01 02 #N=1 #T=30 SC=2306 CAA
**219 South Dakota State SD 01 02 #N=0 #T=30 SC=1862 Summit
**242 Maine ME 01 01 #N=1 #T=19 SC=1459 America East
**291 Alas. Fairbanks AK 01 01 #N=9 #T=9 SC=900 Division II

Legend :
* : school is in FBS conference but not in a P5 conference)
** : school is not in FBS conference)
#N= : number of national championships won in last 20 years
#T= : number of teams that played in a NCAA tournament
SC= : total score

P5 schools were the flagship athletic department in 32 / 51 States+DC. There are 2 states where a P5 conferece school was not the flagship athletic department of their state: NJ(Princeton) & UT(BYU)

SEC flagship: FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), LA(LSU), TN(Tennessee), AR(Arkansas), AL(Auburn), KY(Kentucky), SC(South Carolina), MO(Missouri), MS(Mississippi)
not flagship: TX(Texas)

B1G flagship: MI(Michigan), OH(Ohio State), PA(Penn State), MN(Minnesota), WI(Wisconsin), NE(Nebraska), IL(Illinois), MD(Maryland), IA(Iowa)
not flagship: NJ(Princeton) IN(Notre Dame)

P12 flagship: CA(Stanford), AZ(Arizona State). WA(Washington). OR(Oregon), CO(Colorado)
not flagship: UT(BYU)

B12 flagship: TX(Texas), OK(Oklahoma), WV(West Virginia), KS(Kansas)
not flagship: IA(Iowa)

ACC flagship: NC (North Carolina), IN(Notre Dame), VA(Virginia), NY(Syracuse)
not flagship: SC(South Carolina), KY(Kentucky), FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), MA(Harvard), PA(Penn State)
10-25-2018 12:45 PM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #2
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
Could also rank all of the athletic departments in a state. For example Texas was very competitive with 26 schools in at least 1 NCAA tournament in any sport over the last 20 seasons:

7 Texas TX 01 26 #NC=16 #RANK=330 SCORE=28646 Big 12
15 Texas AM TX 02 26 #NC=11 #RANK=291 SCORE=24566 SEC
37 Baylor TX 03 26 #NC=3 #RANK=217 SCORE=16976 Big 12
53 TCU TX 04 26 #NC=2 #RANK=152 SCORE=11530 Big 12
54 Texas Tech TX 05 26 #NC=0 #RANK=150 SCORE=11383 Big 12
59 SMU TX 06 26 #NC=0 #RANK=144 SCORE=10961 American
89 Rice TX 07 26 #NC=1 #RANK=95 SCORE=6621 Conference USA
99 Houston TX 08 26 #NC=0 #RANK=85 SCORE=6035 American
114 UTEP TX 09 26 #NC=0 #RANK=69 SCORE=4950 Conference USA
203 Stephen F Austin TX 10 26 #NC=1 #RANK=31 SCORE=2138 Southland
206 Texas Arlington TX 11 26 #NC=0 #RANK=35 SCORE=2083 Sun Belt
212 UTSA TX 12 26 #NC=0 #RANK=35 SCORE=2012 Conference USA
216 Sam Houston State TX 13 26 #NC=1 #RANK=27 SCORE=1902 Southland
220 Lamar TX 14 26 #NC=0 #RANK=31 SCORE=1854 Southland
251 Texas State San Marcos TX 15 26 #NC=0 #RANK=23 SCORE=1354 WAC
264 Texas AM Corpus Christi TX 16 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=1157 Southland
268 North Texas TX 17 26 #NC=0 #RANK=19 SCORE=1121 Conference USA
273 Prairie View AM TX 18 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=1085 SWAC
286 Texas Southern TX 19 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=952 SWAC
299 Southwest Texas State TX 20 26 #NC=0 #RANK=12 SCORE=805 Division II
313 Texas State TX 21 26 #NC=0 #RANK=12 SCORE=669 Sun Belt
344 Houston Baptist TX 22 26 #NC=0 #RANK=6 SCORE=300 Southland
350 Incarnate Word TX 23 26 #NC=0 #RANK=3 SCORE=239 Southland
365 Texas Pan American TX 24 26 #NC=0 #RANK=3 SCORE=141 Division II
370 UTRGV TX 25 26 #NC=0 #RANK=2 SCORE=136 WAC
383 Abilene Christian TX 26 26 #NC=0 #RANK=1 SCORE=69 Southland
10-25-2018 12:52 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #3
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
It's interesting that even though we could quibble with your method, the conferences end up pretty much in the "power pecking order" that we actually observe ... SEC, B1G, PAC, Big 12, ACC.

And importantly, when an SEC school isn't the 'flagship', it's usually because another SEC school in the same state is, e.g. Auburn, Mississippi State, and Vanderbilt. Only Texas AM is beaten out by a school from another conference. We see that also with the B1G, e.g. where Michigan State loses out to Michigan, and in the PAC, where three other California schools lose out to Stanford, and in the Big 12, where a bunch of Texas schools lose out to Texas.

The ACC's second-fiddle status in a lot of states is highlighted here, though they do have a bunch of schools lose out to North Carolina.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 01:33 PM by quo vadis.)
10-25-2018 01:31 PM
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GiveEmTheAxe Offline
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Post: #4
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
This is great stuff. Can you share your list of all the athletics departments in California?

Also, would it be too much trouble to show all the departments in states west of the central timezone? That'd be CA+AZ+WA+OR+UT+CO+ID+NV+NM+HI+AK+MT+WY.
10-25-2018 03:06 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 12:45 PM)jhasting Wrote:  what would a confernece comprised of each states flagship athletic department look like?
In order to determine the flagship athletic department for each state I collected NCAA tournament results from each sport over the last 20 years 1998/99-2017/18. This data is available on ncca.org & wikipedia.
NOTE: for football the BCS top 25 final ranking and then then playoff final top 25 ranking was used.
NOTE: Did not include the NIT or any other non-NCAA tournament results.
NOTE: any school that participated in any NCAA sponsored tournament is included even if they play the majority of their sports in Division II. Alaska Fairbanks is an example of a school that is primarily division II but won 9 division I national championships.
A first place finish/national championship in any sport was awarded with 100pts, 2nd place with 99pts and so on. Some tournaments only have 4 teams while basketball has 68 (1st rd losers get 35pts).
All sports are scored the same, so a football national championship or a water polo national championship in any year are both worth 100 points.
All men and women sports are included in the year they are sponsored by the NCAA. Most sports were included each of the last 20 years, but there were a few new sports introduced like Beach Volleyball from 2015-2017.

The result was this list of the flagship athletic department for each state (and DC). The first number is the overall rank including all schools that participated in a NCAA tournament over the last 20 years.Ex.) Stanford ranked #1 easily and was the top school of the 26 California schools that played in at least 1 NCAA tournament over the last 20 seasons:

1 Stanford CA 01 26 #N=42 #T=487 SC=44005 Pac 12
2 North Carolina NC 01 20 #N=17 #T=402 SC=32764 ACC
3 Michigan MI 01 07 #N=7 #T=371 SC=31568 Big Ten
5 Ohio State OH 01 13 #N=11 #T=378 SC=31154 Big Ten
6 Florida FL 01 14 #N=23 #T=340 SC=30325 SEC
7 Texas TX 01 26 #N=16 #T=330 SC=28646 Big 12
8 Penn State PA 01 14 #N=26 #T=339 SC=28552 Big Ten
9 Notre Dame IN 01 09 #N=10 #T=335 SC=26881 ACC
10 Virginia VA 01 16 #N=14 #T=318 SC=26679 ACC
13 Minnesota MN 01 02 #N=12 #T=309 SC=25552 Big Ten
16 Georgia GA 01 08 #N=23 #T=282 SC=24424 SEC
17 Arizona State AZ 01 04 #N=8 #T=297 SC=24401 Pac 12
18 LSU LA 01 16 #N=13 #T=278 SC=23749 SEC
20 Washington WA 01 05 #N=6 #T=276 SC=22787 Pac 12
22 Wisconsin WI 01 04 #N=8 #T=269 SC=21984 Big Ten
23 Tennessee TN 01 13 #N=6 #T=266 SC=21885 SEC
24 Nebraska NE 01 03 #N=9 #T=257 SC=21485 Big Ten
25 Oklahoma OK 01 04 #N=17 #T=252 SC=20749 Big 12
26 Arkansas AR 01 05 #N=15 #T=244 SC=20566 SEC
27 Auburn AL 01 12 #N=13 #T=248 SC=20368 SEC
* 28 BYU UT 01 06 #N=7 #T=258 SC=19988 WCC
29 Kentucky KY 01 08 #N=3 #T=246 SC=19695 SEC
30 South Carolina SC 01 11 #N=4 #T=240 SC=19192 SEC
** 32 Princeton NJ 01 09 #N=5 #T=243 SC=18916 Ivy League
34 Illinois IL 01 17 #N=2 #T=227 SC=18248 Big Ten
35 Oregon OR 01 04 #N=20 #T=209 SC=17468 Pac 12
40 Maryland MD 01 11 #N=18 #T=198 SC=16211 Big Ten
41 Missouri MO 01 08 #N=0 #T=214 SC=15661 SEC
** 43 Harvard MA 01 07 #N=2 #T=198 SC=15107 Ivy League
47 Colorado CO 01 05 #N=12 #T=179 SC=14047 Pac 12
48 Iowa IA 01 04 #N=5 #T=180 SC=13832 Big Ten
* 55 New Mexico NM 01 02 #N=3 #T=152 SC=11378 Mountain West
57 Mississippi MS 01 05 #N=0 #T=151 SC=11138 SEC
58 West Virginia WV 01 02 #N=6 #T=140 SC=11011 Big 12
64 Syracuse NY 01 26 #N=8 #T=126 SC=10466 ACC
65 Kansas KS 01 03 #N=2 #T=138 SC=10439 Big 12
* 66 UConn CT 01 07 #N=18 #T=118 SC=9974 American
** 74 Dartmouth NH 01 02 #N=1 #T=107 SC=8649 Ivy League
* 78 Boise State ID 01 03 #N=0 #T=109 SC=7952 Mountain West
** 84 Providence RI 01 05 #N=2 #T=91 SC=7045 Big East
* 93 UNLV NV 01 02 #N=0 #T=96 SC=6567 Mountain West
* 94 Hawaii HI 01 01 #N=1 #T=81 SC=6548 Big West
**119 American DC 01 03 #N=0 #T=64 SC=4679 Patriot
*151 Wyoming WY 01 01 #N=0 #T=51 SC=3212 Mountain West
**162 Vermont VT 01 01 #N=1 #T=33 SC=2905 America East
**183 North Dakota State ND 01 02 #N=0 #T=43 SC=2577 Summit
**184 Montana State MT 01 02 #N=0 #T=33 SC=2549 Big Sky
**194 Delaware DE 01 02 #N=1 #T=30 SC=2306 CAA
**219 South Dakota State SD 01 02 #N=0 #T=30 SC=1862 Summit
**242 Maine ME 01 01 #N=1 #T=19 SC=1459 America East
**291 Alas. Fairbanks AK 01 01 #N=9 #T=9 SC=900 Division II

Legend :
* : school is in FBS conference but not in a P5 conference)
** : school is not in FBS conference)
#N= : number of national championships won in last 20 years
#T= : number of teams that played in a NCAA tournament
SC= : total score

P5 schools were the flagship athletic department in 32 / 51 States+DC. There are 2 states where a P5 conferece school was not the flagship athletic department of their state: NJ(Princeton) & UT(BYU)

SEC flagship: FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), LA(LSU), TN(Tennessee), AR(Arkansas), AL(Auburn), KY(Kentucky), SC(South Carolina), MO(Missouri), MS(Mississippi)
not flagship: TX(Texas)

B1G flagship: MI(Michigan), OH(Ohio State), PA(Penn State), MN(Minnesota), WI(Wisconsin), NE(Nebraska), IL(Illinois), MD(Maryland), IA(Iowa)
not flagship: NJ(Princeton) IN(Notre Dame)

P12 flagship: CA(Stanford), AZ(Arizona State). WA(Washington). OR(Oregon), CO(Colorado)
not flagship: UT(BYU)

B12 flagship: TX(Texas), OK(Oklahoma), WV(West Virginia), KS(Kansas)
not flagship: IA(Iowa)

ACC flagship: NC (North Carolina), IN(Notre Dame), VA(Virginia), NY(Syracuse)
not flagship: SC(South Carolina), KY(Kentucky), FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), MA(Harvard), PA(Penn State)

You do know that Stanford & Syracuse are private schools, right?? California has dual flagships: Cal-Berkeley & UCLA. SUNY is the flagship for New York.
10-25-2018 03:16 PM
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GiveEmTheAxe Offline
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Post: #6
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 03:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  You do know that Stanford & Syracuse are private schools, right?? California has dual flagships: Cal-Berkeley & UCLA. SUNY is the flagship for New York.

I think it's pretty clear that OP is using a definition of "flagship" different than what we might be used to. It's about NCAA tournament results instead of land grant status or having the largest research profile out of a state's public institutions. After all, in addition to Syracuse and Stanford OP also listed ND, BYU, Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth, Providence, and American as flagship universities.

And even schools like ASU, UNLV, and BSU might just be considered co-flagships by more common definitions of the term.
10-25-2018 04:43 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 03:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(10-25-2018 12:45 PM)jhasting Wrote:  what would a confernece comprised of each states flagship athletic department look like?
In order to determine the flagship athletic department for each state I collected NCAA tournament results from each sport over the last 20 years 1998/99-2017/18. This data is available on ncca.org & wikipedia.
NOTE: for football the BCS top 25 final ranking and then then playoff final top 25 ranking was used.
NOTE: Did not include the NIT or any other non-NCAA tournament results.
NOTE: any school that participated in any NCAA sponsored tournament is included even if they play the majority of their sports in Division II. Alaska Fairbanks is an example of a school that is primarily division II but won 9 division I national championships.
A first place finish/national championship in any sport was awarded with 100pts, 2nd place with 99pts and so on. Some tournaments only have 4 teams while basketball has 68 (1st rd losers get 35pts).
All sports are scored the same, so a football national championship or a water polo national championship in any year are both worth 100 points.
All men and women sports are included in the year they are sponsored by the NCAA. Most sports were included each of the last 20 years, but there were a few new sports introduced like Beach Volleyball from 2015-2017.

The result was this list of the flagship athletic department for each state (and DC). The first number is the overall rank including all schools that participated in a NCAA tournament over the last 20 years.Ex.) Stanford ranked #1 easily and was the top school of the 26 California schools that played in at least 1 NCAA tournament over the last 20 seasons:

1 Stanford CA 01 26 #N=42 #T=487 SC=44005 Pac 12
2 North Carolina NC 01 20 #N=17 #T=402 SC=32764 ACC
3 Michigan MI 01 07 #N=7 #T=371 SC=31568 Big Ten
5 Ohio State OH 01 13 #N=11 #T=378 SC=31154 Big Ten
6 Florida FL 01 14 #N=23 #T=340 SC=30325 SEC
7 Texas TX 01 26 #N=16 #T=330 SC=28646 Big 12
8 Penn State PA 01 14 #N=26 #T=339 SC=28552 Big Ten
9 Notre Dame IN 01 09 #N=10 #T=335 SC=26881 ACC
10 Virginia VA 01 16 #N=14 #T=318 SC=26679 ACC
13 Minnesota MN 01 02 #N=12 #T=309 SC=25552 Big Ten
16 Georgia GA 01 08 #N=23 #T=282 SC=24424 SEC
17 Arizona State AZ 01 04 #N=8 #T=297 SC=24401 Pac 12
18 LSU LA 01 16 #N=13 #T=278 SC=23749 SEC
20 Washington WA 01 05 #N=6 #T=276 SC=22787 Pac 12
22 Wisconsin WI 01 04 #N=8 #T=269 SC=21984 Big Ten
23 Tennessee TN 01 13 #N=6 #T=266 SC=21885 SEC
24 Nebraska NE 01 03 #N=9 #T=257 SC=21485 Big Ten
25 Oklahoma OK 01 04 #N=17 #T=252 SC=20749 Big 12
26 Arkansas AR 01 05 #N=15 #T=244 SC=20566 SEC
27 Auburn AL 01 12 #N=13 #T=248 SC=20368 SEC
* 28 BYU UT 01 06 #N=7 #T=258 SC=19988 WCC
29 Kentucky KY 01 08 #N=3 #T=246 SC=19695 SEC
30 South Carolina SC 01 11 #N=4 #T=240 SC=19192 SEC
** 32 Princeton NJ 01 09 #N=5 #T=243 SC=18916 Ivy League
34 Illinois IL 01 17 #N=2 #T=227 SC=18248 Big Ten
35 Oregon OR 01 04 #N=20 #T=209 SC=17468 Pac 12
40 Maryland MD 01 11 #N=18 #T=198 SC=16211 Big Ten
41 Missouri MO 01 08 #N=0 #T=214 SC=15661 SEC
** 43 Harvard MA 01 07 #N=2 #T=198 SC=15107 Ivy League
47 Colorado CO 01 05 #N=12 #T=179 SC=14047 Pac 12
48 Iowa IA 01 04 #N=5 #T=180 SC=13832 Big Ten
* 55 New Mexico NM 01 02 #N=3 #T=152 SC=11378 Mountain West
57 Mississippi MS 01 05 #N=0 #T=151 SC=11138 SEC
58 West Virginia WV 01 02 #N=6 #T=140 SC=11011 Big 12
64 Syracuse NY 01 26 #N=8 #T=126 SC=10466 ACC
65 Kansas KS 01 03 #N=2 #T=138 SC=10439 Big 12
* 66 UConn CT 01 07 #N=18 #T=118 SC=9974 American
** 74 Dartmouth NH 01 02 #N=1 #T=107 SC=8649 Ivy League
* 78 Boise State ID 01 03 #N=0 #T=109 SC=7952 Mountain West
** 84 Providence RI 01 05 #N=2 #T=91 SC=7045 Big East
* 93 UNLV NV 01 02 #N=0 #T=96 SC=6567 Mountain West
* 94 Hawaii HI 01 01 #N=1 #T=81 SC=6548 Big West
**119 American DC 01 03 #N=0 #T=64 SC=4679 Patriot
*151 Wyoming WY 01 01 #N=0 #T=51 SC=3212 Mountain West
**162 Vermont VT 01 01 #N=1 #T=33 SC=2905 America East
**183 North Dakota State ND 01 02 #N=0 #T=43 SC=2577 Summit
**184 Montana State MT 01 02 #N=0 #T=33 SC=2549 Big Sky
**194 Delaware DE 01 02 #N=1 #T=30 SC=2306 CAA
**219 South Dakota State SD 01 02 #N=0 #T=30 SC=1862 Summit
**242 Maine ME 01 01 #N=1 #T=19 SC=1459 America East
**291 Alas. Fairbanks AK 01 01 #N=9 #T=9 SC=900 Division II

Legend :
* : school is in FBS conference but not in a P5 conference)
** : school is not in FBS conference)
#N= : number of national championships won in last 20 years
#T= : number of teams that played in a NCAA tournament
SC= : total score

P5 schools were the flagship athletic department in 32 / 51 States+DC. There are 2 states where a P5 conferece school was not the flagship athletic department of their state: NJ(Princeton) & UT(BYU)

SEC flagship: FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), LA(LSU), TN(Tennessee), AR(Arkansas), AL(Auburn), KY(Kentucky), SC(South Carolina), MO(Missouri), MS(Mississippi)
not flagship: TX(Texas)

B1G flagship: MI(Michigan), OH(Ohio State), PA(Penn State), MN(Minnesota), WI(Wisconsin), NE(Nebraska), IL(Illinois), MD(Maryland), IA(Iowa)
not flagship: NJ(Princeton) IN(Notre Dame)

P12 flagship: CA(Stanford), AZ(Arizona State). WA(Washington). OR(Oregon), CO(Colorado)
not flagship: UT(BYU)

B12 flagship: TX(Texas), OK(Oklahoma), WV(West Virginia), KS(Kansas)
not flagship: IA(Iowa)

ACC flagship: NC (North Carolina), IN(Notre Dame), VA(Virginia), NY(Syracuse)
not flagship: SC(South Carolina), KY(Kentucky), FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), MA(Harvard), PA(Penn State)

You do know that Stanford & Syracuse are private schools, right?? California has dual flagships: Cal-Berkeley & UCLA. SUNY is the flagship for New York.

The OP is obviously talking about "flagship athletic departments" as defined by his NCAA tournaments criteria. He isn't talking about "flagship" in the ordinary academic/political sense.

Thus, it's possible that by his definition, Texas Tech or SMU could have been the "Texas athletic flagship" even though the former is subordinate to UT-Austin in the Texas public flagship hierarchy and SMU is outside that hierarchy entirely as a private.
10-25-2018 05:21 PM
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debragga Offline
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Post: #8
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 12:52 PM)jhasting Wrote:  Could also rank all of the athletic departments in a state. For example Texas was very competitive with 26 schools in at least 1 NCAA tournament in any sport over the last 20 seasons:

7 Texas TX 01 26 #NC=16 #RANK=330 SCORE=28646 Big 12
15 Texas AM TX 02 26 #NC=11 #RANK=291 SCORE=24566 SEC
37 Baylor TX 03 26 #NC=3 #RANK=217 SCORE=16976 Big 12
53 TCU TX 04 26 #NC=2 #RANK=152 SCORE=11530 Big 12
54 Texas Tech TX 05 26 #NC=0 #RANK=150 SCORE=11383 Big 12
59 SMU TX 06 26 #NC=0 #RANK=144 SCORE=10961 American
89 Rice TX 07 26 #NC=1 #RANK=95 SCORE=6621 Conference USA
99 Houston TX 08 26 #NC=0 #RANK=85 SCORE=6035 American
114 UTEP TX 09 26 #NC=0 #RANK=69 SCORE=4950 Conference USA
203 Stephen F Austin TX 10 26 #NC=1 #RANK=31 SCORE=2138 Southland
206 Texas Arlington TX 11 26 #NC=0 #RANK=35 SCORE=2083 Sun Belt
212 UTSA TX 12 26 #NC=0 #RANK=35 SCORE=2012 Conference USA
216 Sam Houston State TX 13 26 #NC=1 #RANK=27 SCORE=1902 Southland
220 Lamar TX 14 26 #NC=0 #RANK=31 SCORE=1854 Southland
251 Texas State San Marcos TX 15 26 #NC=0 #RANK=23 SCORE=1354 WAC
264 Texas AM Corpus Christi TX 16 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=1157 Southland
268 North Texas TX 17 26 #NC=0 #RANK=19 SCORE=1121 Conference USA
273 Prairie View AM TX 18 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=1085 SWAC
286 Texas Southern TX 19 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=952 SWAC
299 Southwest Texas State TX 20 26 #NC=0 #RANK=12 SCORE=805 Division II
313 Texas State TX 21 26 #NC=0 #RANK=12 SCORE=669 Sun Belt
344 Houston Baptist TX 22 26 #NC=0 #RANK=6 SCORE=300 Southland
350 Incarnate Word TX 23 26 #NC=0 #RANK=3 SCORE=239 Southland
365 Texas Pan American TX 24 26 #NC=0 #RANK=3 SCORE=141 Division II
370 UTRGV TX 25 26 #NC=0 #RANK=2 SCORE=136 WAC
383 Abilene Christian TX 26 26 #NC=0 #RANK=1 SCORE=69 Southland

You have Texas State and Southwest Texas State both on there, but they’re the same school
10-26-2018 01:12 AM
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jhasting Offline
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RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-26-2018 01:12 AM)debragga Wrote:  
(10-25-2018 12:52 PM)jhasting Wrote:  Could also rank all of the athletic departments in a state. For example Texas was very competitive with 26 schools in at least 1 NCAA tournament in any sport over the last 20 seasons:

7 Texas TX 01 26 #NC=16 #RANK=330 SCORE=28646 Big 12
15 Texas AM TX 02 26 #NC=11 #RANK=291 SCORE=24566 SEC
37 Baylor TX 03 26 #NC=3 #RANK=217 SCORE=16976 Big 12
53 TCU TX 04 26 #NC=2 #RANK=152 SCORE=11530 Big 12
54 Texas Tech TX 05 26 #NC=0 #RANK=150 SCORE=11383 Big 12
59 SMU TX 06 26 #NC=0 #RANK=144 SCORE=10961 American
89 Rice TX 07 26 #NC=1 #RANK=95 SCORE=6621 Conference USA
99 Houston TX 08 26 #NC=0 #RANK=85 SCORE=6035 American
114 UTEP TX 09 26 #NC=0 #RANK=69 SCORE=4950 Conference USA
203 Stephen F Austin TX 10 26 #NC=1 #RANK=31 SCORE=2138 Southland
206 Texas Arlington TX 11 26 #NC=0 #RANK=35 SCORE=2083 Sun Belt
212 UTSA TX 12 26 #NC=0 #RANK=35 SCORE=2012 Conference USA
216 Sam Houston State TX 13 26 #NC=1 #RANK=27 SCORE=1902 Southland
220 Lamar TX 14 26 #NC=0 #RANK=31 SCORE=1854 Southland
251 Texas State San Marcos TX 15 26 #NC=0 #RANK=23 SCORE=1354 WAC
264 Texas AM Corpus Christi TX 16 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=1157 Southland
268 North Texas TX 17 26 #NC=0 #RANK=19 SCORE=1121 Conference USA
273 Prairie View AM TX 18 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=1085 SWAC
286 Texas Southern TX 19 26 #NC=0 #RANK=18 SCORE=952 SWAC
299 Southwest Texas State TX 20 26 #NC=0 #RANK=12 SCORE=805 Division II
313 Texas State TX 21 26 #NC=0 #RANK=12 SCORE=669 Sun Belt
344 Houston Baptist TX 22 26 #NC=0 #RANK=6 SCORE=300 Southland
350 Incarnate Word TX 23 26 #NC=0 #RANK=3 SCORE=239 Southland
365 Texas Pan American TX 24 26 #NC=0 #RANK=3 SCORE=141 Division II
370 UTRGV TX 25 26 #NC=0 #RANK=2 SCORE=136 WAC
383 Abilene Christian TX 26 26 #NC=0 #RANK=1 SCORE=69 Southland

You have Texas State and Southwest Texas State both on there, but they’re the same school

Thanks, I updated, Texas State data is now continuous over the 20 seasons. This was the most difficult part in collecting the data. Many schools changed names or were listed in different format in the data and I missed this one. Thanks again for your feedback.

7,Texas ,TX,01,24,,#NC=16,#RANK=330,SCORE=28646,Big 12
15,Texas AM ,TX,02,24,,#NC=11,#RANK=291,SCORE=24566,SEC
37,Baylor ,TX,03,24,,#NC=3 ,#RANK=217,SCORE=16976,Big 12
53,TCU ,TX,04,24,,#NC=2 ,#RANK=152,SCORE=11530,Big 12
54,Texas Tech ,TX,05,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=150,SCORE=11383,Big 12
59,SMU ,TX,06,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=144,SCORE=10961,American
89,Rice ,TX,07,24,,#NC=1 ,#RANK=95 ,SCORE=6621 ,Conference USA
99,Houston ,TX,08,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=85 ,SCORE=6035 ,American
114,UTEP ,TX,09,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=69 ,SCORE=4950 ,Conference USA
166,Texas State ,TX,10,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=47 ,SCORE=2828 ,Sun Belt
204,Stephen F Austin ,TX,11,24,,#NC=1 ,#RANK=31 ,SCORE=2138 ,Southland
207,Texas Arlington ,TX,12,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=35 ,SCORE=2083 ,Sun Belt
213,UTSA ,TX,13,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=35 ,SCORE=2012 ,Conference USA
217,Sam Houston State ,TX,14,24,,#NC=1 ,#RANK=27 ,SCORE=1902 ,Southland
221,Lamar ,TX,15,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=31 ,SCORE=1854 ,Southland
264,Texas AM Corpus Christi ,TX,16,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=18 ,SCORE=1157 ,Southland
268,North Texas ,TX,17,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=19 ,SCORE=1121 ,Conference USA
285,Texas Southern ,TX,18,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=18 ,SCORE=952 ,SWAC
294,Prairie View AM ,TX,19,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=14 ,SCORE=858 ,SWAC
342,Houston Baptist ,TX,20,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=6 ,SCORE=300 ,Southland
348,Incarnate Word ,TX,21,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=3 ,SCORE=239 ,Southland
363,Texas Pan American ,TX,22,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=3 ,SCORE=141 ,Division II
368,UTRGV ,TX,23,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=2 ,SCORE=136 ,WAC
381,Abilene Christian ,TX,24,24,,#NC=0 ,#RANK=1 ,SCORE=69 ,Southland
10-26-2018 06:49 AM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #10
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
Updated program to ONLY score FBS FB. This data was collected from final BCS or college football playoff rankings. The highest scoring school is FSU with 2 national championships and ranked in every poll/ Georgia is the only other school in every poll.

1,Florida State ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1708 ,ACC
2,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1682 ,SEC
3,Virginia Tech ,VA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=19 ,SCORE=1595 ,ACC
4,Oklahoma ,OK,#NC=1 ,#RANK=17 ,SCORE=1548 ,Big 12
5,Florida ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=18 ,SCORE=1547 ,SEC
6,Ohio State ,OH,#NC=2 ,#RANK=16 ,SCORE=1489 ,Big Ten
7,Texas ,TX,#NC=1 ,#RANK=17 ,SCORE=1447 ,Big 12
8,Wisconsin ,WI,#NC=0 ,#RANK=17 ,SCORE=1430 ,Big Ten
9,LSU ,LA,#NC=2 ,#RANK=15 ,SCORE=1321 ,SEC
10,Oregon ,OR,#NC=0 ,#RANK=15 ,SCORE=1298 ,Pac 12
11,Michigan ,MI,#NC=0 ,#RANK=16 ,SCORE=1297 ,Big Ten
12,Alabama ,AL,#NC=5 ,#RANK=14 ,SCORE=1295 ,SEC
13,TCU ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=15 ,SCORE=1254 ,Big 12
14,Miami FL ,FL,#NC=1 ,#RANK=16 ,SCORE=1242 ,ACC
15,Nebraska ,NE,#NC=0 ,#RANK=16 ,SCORE=1242 ,Big Ten
16,USC ,CA,#NC=1 ,#RANK=14 ,SCORE=1227 ,Pac 12
17,Boise State ,ID,#NC=0 ,#RANK=15 ,SCORE=1224 ,Mountain West
18,Clemson ,SC,#NC=1 ,#RANK=15 ,SCORE=1217 ,ACC
19,Penn State ,PA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=14 ,SCORE=1122 ,Big Ten
20,Auburn ,AL,#NC=1 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=1115 ,SEC
21,Kansas State ,KS,#NC=0 ,#RANK=14 ,SCORE=1111 ,Big 12
22,Notre Dame ,IN,#NC=0 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=1056 ,ACC
23,Tennessee ,TN,#NC=1 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=1045 ,SEC
24,Oklahoma State ,OK,#NC=0 ,#RANK=12 ,SCORE=991 ,Big 12
25,Utah ,UT,#NC=0 ,#RANK=12 ,SCORE=980 ,Pac 12
26,West Virginia ,WV,#NC=0 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=973 ,Big 12
27,Iowa ,IA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=972 ,Big Ten
28,Georgia Tech ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=950 ,ACC
29,Louisville ,KY,#NC=0 ,#RANK=12 ,SCORE=943 ,ACC
30,Stanford ,CA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=11 ,SCORE=939 ,Pac 12
31,South Carolina ,SC,#NC=0 ,#RANK=12 ,SCORE=919 ,SEC
32,Michigan State ,MI,#NC=0 ,#RANK=11 ,SCORE=914 ,Big Ten
33,Texas AM ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=13 ,SCORE=905 ,SEC
34,BYU ,UT,#NC=0 ,#RANK=12 ,SCORE=879 ,WCC
35,Mississippi State ,MS,#NC=0 ,#RANK=11 ,SCORE=854 ,SEC
36,Boston College ,MA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=12 ,SCORE=814 ,ACC
37,Arkansas ,AR,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=771 ,SEC
38,Missouri ,MO,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=768 ,SEC
39,UCLA ,CA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=11 ,SCORE=765 ,Pac 12
40,Washington ,WA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=755 ,Pac 12
41,Navy ,MD,#NC=0 ,#RANK=11 ,SCORE=720 ,Patriot
42,Marshall ,WV,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=707 ,Conference USA
43,Maryland ,MD,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=706 ,Big Ten
44,Southern Mississippi ,MS,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=666 ,Conference USA
45,Houston ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=663 ,American
46,Mississippi ,MS,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=656 ,SEC
47,Minnesota ,MN,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=656 ,Big Ten
48,Cincinnati ,OH,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=650 ,American
49,Texas Tech ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=645 ,Big 12
50,Arizona ,AZ,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=643 ,Pac 12
51,Pittsburgh ,PA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=642 ,ACC
52,North Carolina State ,NC,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=631 ,ACC
53,Arizona State ,AZ,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=629 ,Pac 12
54,Air Force ,CO,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=606 ,Mountain West
55,California ,CA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=595 ,Pac 12
56,Purdue ,IN,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=590 ,Big Ten
57,Rutgers ,NJ,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=577 ,Big Ten
58,South Florida ,FL,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=571 ,American
59,Baylor ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=7 ,SCORE=563 ,Big 12
60,Nevada ,NV,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=561 ,Mountain West
61,UCF ,FL,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=559 ,American
62,Ohio ,OH,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=554 ,MAC
63,Northern Illinois ,IL,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=553 ,MAC
64,Northwestern ,IL,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=547 ,Big Ten
10-26-2018 07:00 AM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #11
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 03:06 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  This is great stuff. Can you share your list of all the athletics departments in California?

Also, would it be too much trouble to show all the departments in states west of the central timezone? That'd be CA+AZ+WA+OR+UT+CO+ID+NV+NM+HI+AK+MT+WY.

This link ranks all 382 schools that have participated in at least 1 NCAA playoff over the last 20 seasons sorted by state

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing
10-26-2018 08:30 AM
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Post: #12
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-26-2018 07:00 AM)jhasting Wrote:  Updated program to ONLY score FBS FB. This data was collected from final BCS or college football playoff rankings. The highest scoring school is FSU with 2 national championships and ranked in every poll/ Georgia is the only other school in every poll.

1,Florida State ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1708 ,ACC
2,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1682 ,SEC

Well, IMO this shows a big flaw in the rating system. Alabama has to be #1 over the past 20 years, so this system severely under-rates national titles and/or severely over-rates merely finishing in a poll in a given year.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2018 08:52 AM by quo vadis.)
10-26-2018 08:34 AM
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Post: #13
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
Can also look at each sport in a schools athletic department. For example, which sport in Alabama's athletic department would you select as the most dominant? This is the team that appeared in and won in the most NCAA tournaments. The obvious choice might be football, but their Women's gymnastics has been more dominant than their football over the last 20 seasons. Alabama women's gymnastics team was the #1 women's gymnastic team in the country and scored more points than any other team sport in Alabama's athletic department. It is surprising how many of the top FB/BB schools also have several very dominant non-revenue sports.

Alabama
1,Alabama ,SEC , W. Gym, 1948(1)
2,Alabama ,SEC , Softball, 1825(5)
3,Alabama ,SEC , M. SW, 1566(15)
4,Alabama ,SEC , W. Golf, 1332(25)
5,Alabama ,SEC , FBS FB, 1295(12)
6,Alabama ,SEC , M. Golf, 1265(22)
7,Alabama ,SEC , M. T&F, 1244(21)
8,Alabama ,SEC , W. SW, 1208(26)
9,Alabama ,SEC , M. In. T&F, 1206(21)
10,Alabama ,SEC , W. T&F, 1109(24)
11,Alabama ,SEC , M. CC, 976(22)
12,Alabama ,SEC , W. Ten, 964(38)
13,Alabama ,SEC , Baseball, 958(31)
14,Alabama ,SEC , W. In. T&F, 929(35)
15,Alabama ,SEC , M. Ten, 920(40)
16,Alabama ,SEC , M. BB, 552(60)
17,Alabama ,SEC , W. VB, 356(80)
18,Alabama ,SEC , W. CC, 276(65)
19,Alabama ,SEC , W. SOC, 204(119)
20,Alabama ,SEC , W. BB, 84(177)
21,Alabama ,SEC , W. Bowl, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , Beach VB, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , FCS FB, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. WR, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , W. FH, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , Skiing, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , W. Row, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. VB, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , W. WP, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , Rifle, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , Fencing, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , W. IHoc, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. Lax, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. IHoc, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. SOC, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , W. Lax, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. WP, 0
21,Alabama ,SEC , M. Gym, 0
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2018 09:00 AM by jhasting.)
10-26-2018 08:44 AM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #14
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-26-2018 08:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 07:00 AM)jhasting Wrote:  Updated program to ONLY score FBS FB. This data was collected from final BCS or college football playoff rankings. The highest scoring school is FSU with 2 national championships and ranked in every poll/ Georgia is the only other school in every poll.

1,Florida State ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1708 ,ACC
2,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1682 ,SEC

Well, IMO this shows an enormous flaw in the rating system. Alabama has to be #1 over the past 20 years, so this system severely under-rates national titles and/or severely over-rates merely finishing in a poll in a given year.

The scoring is simple: 100pts for #1, 99pts for #2 and so on. This is a fair system that is not customized to fit preconceived notions. If the data set is limited to the last 4 seasons or the last 10 seasons then Alabama FB easily outscores all other teams. Please review the results from 1998-2007 to see a surprisingly inconsistent and mostly average Alabama team (Dubose,Franchione, Shula) until Saban is hired. The first 10 years of the 20 season window is negatively impacting Alabama FB total score.
10-26-2018 08:54 AM
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Post: #15
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 04:43 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  
(10-25-2018 03:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  You do know that Stanford & Syracuse are private schools, right?? California has dual flagships: Cal-Berkeley & UCLA. SUNY is the flagship for New York.

I think it's pretty clear that OP is using a definition of "flagship" different than what we might be used to. It's about NCAA tournament results instead of land grant status or having the largest research profile out of a state's public institutions. After all, in addition to Syracuse and Stanford OP also listed ND, BYU, Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth, Providence, and American as flagship universities.

And even schools like ASU, UNLV, and BSU might just be considered co-flagships by more common definitions of the term.

It was clear this took a lot of effort.
10-26-2018 09:08 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #16
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-26-2018 08:54 AM)jhasting Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 08:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 07:00 AM)jhasting Wrote:  Updated program to ONLY score FBS FB. This data was collected from final BCS or college football playoff rankings. The highest scoring school is FSU with 2 national championships and ranked in every poll/ Georgia is the only other school in every poll.

1,Florida State ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1708 ,ACC
2,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1682 ,SEC

Well, IMO this shows an enormous flaw in the rating system. Alabama has to be #1 over the past 20 years, so this system severely under-rates national titles and/or severely over-rates merely finishing in a poll in a given year.

The scoring is simple: 100pts for #1, 99pts for #2 and so on. This is a fair system that is not customized to fit preconceived notions. If the data set is limited to the last 4 seasons or the last 10 seasons then Alabama FB easily outscores all other teams. Please review the results from 1998-2007 to see a surprisingly inconsistent and mostly average Alabama team (Dubose,Franchione, Shula) until Saban is hired. The first 10 years of the 20 season window is negatively impacting Alabama FB total score.

First, your system does fit a "preconceived notion", namely your personal definition of what a "fair" system would look like. There's nothing natural or inevitable about your scoring system, it reflects what you believe is the correct way to rank programs.

Second, I'm well aware that Alabama achieved very little between 1998 and the arrival of Nick Saban. My comment in the last post fully reflected that understanding so no need for me to review it. My point is, your system values consistency of performance over titles, and that simply does not comport to what I think is any reasonable understanding of who the best performing programs are.

For example, much better to have these results:

#1 ... #30 ... #1 .... #30 ... #1 over a five year period than:

#11 ... #11 ... #11 .... #12 ... #12.

Everyone in the world would rather have their team be the first team than the second, but I think your system would have the second team ranked higher. Just doesn't comport with reality, in my view.

I would modify the system to give a big bonus, maybe 100 extra points, for each national title won, and then reduce the points given for finishes outside the top 10.
10-26-2018 09:10 AM
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Post: #17
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-26-2018 08:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 07:00 AM)jhasting Wrote:  Updated program to ONLY score FBS FB. This data was collected from final BCS or college football playoff rankings. The highest scoring school is FSU with 2 national championships and ranked in every poll/ Georgia is the only other school in every poll.

1,Florida State ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1708 ,ACC
2,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1682 ,SEC

Well, IMO this shows a big flaw in the rating system. Alabama has to be #1 over the past 20 years, so this system severely under-rates national titles and/or severely over-rates merely finishing in a poll in a given year.

Alabama was lousy in the decade prior to Saban. It looks at 20 years, not just the Saban era. Texas hasn't done anything since 2009, but was 1st or 2nd (either them or Ohio St.) in the first half of his time frame. That's why they are #7 in his ranking. Starting with 98:

98 7-5
99 10-3
00 3-8
01 705
02 10-3
03 4-9
04 6-6
05 0-2 (forfeited 10 wins)
06 0-7 (forfeited 6 wins)
07 2-6 (forfeited 5 wins) Saban's first year
Since then their worst season had 3 losses.
10-26-2018 09:18 AM
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Post: #18
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-26-2018 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 08:54 AM)jhasting Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 08:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-26-2018 07:00 AM)jhasting Wrote:  Updated program to ONLY score FBS FB. This data was collected from final BCS or college football playoff rankings. The highest scoring school is FSU with 2 national championships and ranked in every poll/ Georgia is the only other school in every poll.

1,Florida State ,FL,#NC=2 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1708 ,ACC
2,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=20 ,SCORE=1682 ,SEC

Well, IMO this shows an enormous flaw in the rating system. Alabama has to be #1 over the past 20 years, so this system severely under-rates national titles and/or severely over-rates merely finishing in a poll in a given year.

The scoring is simple: 100pts for #1, 99pts for #2 and so on. This is a fair system that is not customized to fit preconceived notions. If the data set is limited to the last 4 seasons or the last 10 seasons then Alabama FB easily outscores all other teams. Please review the results from 1998-2007 to see a surprisingly inconsistent and mostly average Alabama team (Dubose,Franchione, Shula) until Saban is hired. The first 10 years of the 20 season window is negatively impacting Alabama FB total score.

First, your system does fit a "preconceived notion", namely your personal definition of what a "fair" system would look like. There's nothing natural or inevitable about your scoring system, it reflects what you believe is the correct way to rank programs.

Second, I'm well aware that Alabama achieved very little between 1998 and the arrival of Nick Saban. My comment in the last post fully reflected that understanding so no need for me to review it. My point is, your system values consistency of performance over titles, and that simply does not comport to what I think is any reasonable understanding of who the best performing programs are.

For example, much better to have these results:

#1 ... #30 ... #1 .... #30 ... #1 over a five year period than:

#11 ... #11 ... #11 .... #12 ... #12.

Everyone in the world would rather have their team be the first team than the second, but I think your system would have the second team ranked higher. Just doesn't comport with reality, in my view.

I would modify the system to give a big bonus, maybe 100 extra points, for each national title won, and then reduce the points given for finishes outside the top 10.

Thanks. I did try several non-linear scoring systems, scaling the score based on the number of teams in each tournament, or providing bonuses similar to your suggestion . The end result usually favored more inconsistent teams. Using a simple linear scoring seemed to produce results that were fair to both consistent and high performing teams. I will take your feedback and continue to tweak to try to find the optimal scoring.
10-26-2018 09:30 AM
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Post: #19
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
(10-25-2018 05:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-25-2018 03:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(10-25-2018 12:45 PM)jhasting Wrote:  what would a confernece comprised of each states flagship athletic department look like?
In order to determine the flagship athletic department for each state I collected NCAA tournament results from each sport over the last 20 years 1998/99-2017/18. This data is available on ncca.org & wikipedia.
NOTE: for football the BCS top 25 final ranking and then then playoff final top 25 ranking was used.
NOTE: Did not include the NIT or any other non-NCAA tournament results.
NOTE: any school that participated in any NCAA sponsored tournament is included even if they play the majority of their sports in Division II. Alaska Fairbanks is an example of a school that is primarily division II but won 9 division I national championships.
A first place finish/national championship in any sport was awarded with 100pts, 2nd place with 99pts and so on. Some tournaments only have 4 teams while basketball has 68 (1st rd losers get 35pts).
All sports are scored the same, so a football national championship or a water polo national championship in any year are both worth 100 points.
All men and women sports are included in the year they are sponsored by the NCAA. Most sports were included each of the last 20 years, but there were a few new sports introduced like Beach Volleyball from 2015-2017.

The result was this list of the flagship athletic department for each state (and DC). The first number is the overall rank including all schools that participated in a NCAA tournament over the last 20 years.Ex.) Stanford ranked #1 easily and was the top school of the 26 California schools that played in at least 1 NCAA tournament over the last 20 seasons:

1 Stanford CA 01 26 #N=42 #T=487 SC=44005 Pac 12
2 North Carolina NC 01 20 #N=17 #T=402 SC=32764 ACC
3 Michigan MI 01 07 #N=7 #T=371 SC=31568 Big Ten
5 Ohio State OH 01 13 #N=11 #T=378 SC=31154 Big Ten
6 Florida FL 01 14 #N=23 #T=340 SC=30325 SEC
7 Texas TX 01 26 #N=16 #T=330 SC=28646 Big 12
8 Penn State PA 01 14 #N=26 #T=339 SC=28552 Big Ten
9 Notre Dame IN 01 09 #N=10 #T=335 SC=26881 ACC
10 Virginia VA 01 16 #N=14 #T=318 SC=26679 ACC
13 Minnesota MN 01 02 #N=12 #T=309 SC=25552 Big Ten
16 Georgia GA 01 08 #N=23 #T=282 SC=24424 SEC
17 Arizona State AZ 01 04 #N=8 #T=297 SC=24401 Pac 12
18 LSU LA 01 16 #N=13 #T=278 SC=23749 SEC
20 Washington WA 01 05 #N=6 #T=276 SC=22787 Pac 12
22 Wisconsin WI 01 04 #N=8 #T=269 SC=21984 Big Ten
23 Tennessee TN 01 13 #N=6 #T=266 SC=21885 SEC
24 Nebraska NE 01 03 #N=9 #T=257 SC=21485 Big Ten
25 Oklahoma OK 01 04 #N=17 #T=252 SC=20749 Big 12
26 Arkansas AR 01 05 #N=15 #T=244 SC=20566 SEC
27 Auburn AL 01 12 #N=13 #T=248 SC=20368 SEC
* 28 BYU UT 01 06 #N=7 #T=258 SC=19988 WCC
29 Kentucky KY 01 08 #N=3 #T=246 SC=19695 SEC
30 South Carolina SC 01 11 #N=4 #T=240 SC=19192 SEC
** 32 Princeton NJ 01 09 #N=5 #T=243 SC=18916 Ivy League
34 Illinois IL 01 17 #N=2 #T=227 SC=18248 Big Ten
35 Oregon OR 01 04 #N=20 #T=209 SC=17468 Pac 12
40 Maryland MD 01 11 #N=18 #T=198 SC=16211 Big Ten
41 Missouri MO 01 08 #N=0 #T=214 SC=15661 SEC
** 43 Harvard MA 01 07 #N=2 #T=198 SC=15107 Ivy League
47 Colorado CO 01 05 #N=12 #T=179 SC=14047 Pac 12
48 Iowa IA 01 04 #N=5 #T=180 SC=13832 Big Ten
* 55 New Mexico NM 01 02 #N=3 #T=152 SC=11378 Mountain West
57 Mississippi MS 01 05 #N=0 #T=151 SC=11138 SEC
58 West Virginia WV 01 02 #N=6 #T=140 SC=11011 Big 12
64 Syracuse NY 01 26 #N=8 #T=126 SC=10466 ACC
65 Kansas KS 01 03 #N=2 #T=138 SC=10439 Big 12
* 66 UConn CT 01 07 #N=18 #T=118 SC=9974 American
** 74 Dartmouth NH 01 02 #N=1 #T=107 SC=8649 Ivy League
* 78 Boise State ID 01 03 #N=0 #T=109 SC=7952 Mountain West
** 84 Providence RI 01 05 #N=2 #T=91 SC=7045 Big East
* 93 UNLV NV 01 02 #N=0 #T=96 SC=6567 Mountain West
* 94 Hawaii HI 01 01 #N=1 #T=81 SC=6548 Big West
**119 American DC 01 03 #N=0 #T=64 SC=4679 Patriot
*151 Wyoming WY 01 01 #N=0 #T=51 SC=3212 Mountain West
**162 Vermont VT 01 01 #N=1 #T=33 SC=2905 America East
**183 North Dakota State ND 01 02 #N=0 #T=43 SC=2577 Summit
**184 Montana State MT 01 02 #N=0 #T=33 SC=2549 Big Sky
**194 Delaware DE 01 02 #N=1 #T=30 SC=2306 CAA
**219 South Dakota State SD 01 02 #N=0 #T=30 SC=1862 Summit
**242 Maine ME 01 01 #N=1 #T=19 SC=1459 America East
**291 Alas. Fairbanks AK 01 01 #N=9 #T=9 SC=900 Division II

Legend :
* : school is in FBS conference but not in a P5 conference)
** : school is not in FBS conference)
#N= : number of national championships won in last 20 years
#T= : number of teams that played in a NCAA tournament
SC= : total score

P5 schools were the flagship athletic department in 32 / 51 States+DC. There are 2 states where a P5 conferece school was not the flagship athletic department of their state: NJ(Princeton) & UT(BYU)

SEC flagship: FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), LA(LSU), TN(Tennessee), AR(Arkansas), AL(Auburn), KY(Kentucky), SC(South Carolina), MO(Missouri), MS(Mississippi)
not flagship: TX(Texas)

B1G flagship: MI(Michigan), OH(Ohio State), PA(Penn State), MN(Minnesota), WI(Wisconsin), NE(Nebraska), IL(Illinois), MD(Maryland), IA(Iowa)
not flagship: NJ(Princeton) IN(Notre Dame)

P12 flagship: CA(Stanford), AZ(Arizona State). WA(Washington). OR(Oregon), CO(Colorado)
not flagship: UT(BYU)

B12 flagship: TX(Texas), OK(Oklahoma), WV(West Virginia), KS(Kansas)
not flagship: IA(Iowa)

ACC flagship: NC (North Carolina), IN(Notre Dame), VA(Virginia), NY(Syracuse)
not flagship: SC(South Carolina), KY(Kentucky), FL(Florida), GA(Georgia), MA(Harvard), PA(Penn State)

You do know that Stanford & Syracuse are private schools, right?? California has dual flagships: Cal-Berkeley & UCLA. SUNY is the flagship for New York.

The OP is obviously talking about "flagship athletic departments" as defined by his NCAA tournaments criteria. He isn't talking about "flagship" in the ordinary academic/political sense.

Thus, it's possible that by his definition, Texas Tech or SMU could have been the "Texas athletic flagship" even though the former is subordinate to UT-Austin in the Texas public flagship hierarchy and SMU is outside that hierarchy entirely as a private.

Ahhh, ok. And yes, as Bullet commented, what jhastings did does take a lot of effort!!
10-26-2018 11:04 AM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #20
RE: what would a conference comprised of each states flagship athletic dept. look like?
I mentioned the 10 year results but neglected to post results. Looking at only the last 10 years (saban era) using the same linear scoring shows Alabama FB outscoring #2 Oklahoma by nearly 100 points, meaning that you could replace one of Alabama national championships over the last 10 seasons with a 0-16 season and they would be only 4 points out of #1. Also note that they are 26 points, or 2.6 points per year from a perfect (10 national championships) score

1,Alabama ,AL,#NC=5 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=974 ,SEC
2,Oklahoma ,OK,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=878 ,Big 12
3,Florida State ,FL,#NC=1 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=859 ,ACC
4,Oklahoma State ,OK,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=841 ,Big 12
5,LSU ,LA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=834 ,SEC
6,Clemson ,SC,#NC=1 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=832 ,ACC
7,Ohio State ,OH,#NC=1 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=818 ,Big Ten
8,Wisconsin ,WI,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=815 ,Big Ten
9,Boise State ,ID,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=807 ,Mountain West
10,Oregon ,OR,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=798 ,Pac 12
11,Georgia ,GA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=798 ,SEC
12,Virginia Tech ,VA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=10 ,SCORE=790 ,ACC
13,Stanford ,CA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=778 ,Pac 12
14,TCU ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=768 ,Big 12
15,Michigan State ,MI,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=761 ,Big Ten
16,Florida ,FL,#NC=1 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=678 ,SEC
17,South Carolina ,SC,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=676 ,SEC
18,Auburn ,AL,#NC=1 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=670 ,SEC
19,Nebraska ,NE,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=654 ,Big Ten
20,Utah ,UT,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=654 ,Pac 12
21,Notre Dame ,IN,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=636 ,ACC
22,USC ,CA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=8 ,SCORE=636 ,Pac 12
23,Iowa ,IA,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=633 ,Big Ten
24,BYU ,UT,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=629 ,WCC
25,Texas AM ,TX,#NC=0 ,#RANK=9 ,SCORE=617 ,SEC
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2018 11:57 AM by jhasting.)
10-26-2018 11:54 AM
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