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stever20 Online
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Coaches Poll out
top 6 stay the same. WVU passes Ohio St

But congrats to #25 UAB...... How incredible of a story!!!!!
11-11-2018 12:35 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
5 of the spots are held by G5.
11-11-2018 01:13 PM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
Aaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!
11-11-2018 01:40 PM
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SUisBigEast4ever Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
I'm almost convinced that if they played 20 games and Buffalo was 19-1 they still would keep them out of the rankings.

This is becoming absurd watching these other G5 schools get ranked with 1 loss (hell Fresno State is ahead of UB with 2 losses) while Buffalo remains out. Buffalo has the best win of any of those teams too (at Temple).

Not trying to hate on Utah State, UAB and Fresno State but the pollsters are really pissing me off.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2018 04:01 PM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-11-2018 03:59 PM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-11-2018 03:59 PM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  I'm almost convinced that if they played 20 games and Buffalo was 19-1 they still would keep them out of the rankings.

This is becoming absurd watching these other G5 schools get ranked with 1 loss (hell Fresno State is ahead of UB with 2 losses) while Buffalo remains out. Buffalo has the best win of any of those teams too (at Temple).

Not trying to hate on Utah State, UAB and Fresno State but the pollsters are really pissing me off.

When a C-USA 3.0 school gets more respect by the polls than a MAC or Sun Belt school with a similar record, it really tells you conference perception is still a thing. Buffalo is doing the right things and it’s not their fault the AP and Coaches polls are biased. I guarantee you if Buffalo was in the AAC or the MWC with the same 9-1 record, you’d be ranked where Utah State is.
11-11-2018 04:41 PM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-11-2018 03:59 PM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  I'm almost convinced that if they played 20 games and Buffalo was 19-1 they still would keep them out of the rankings.

This is becoming absurd watching these other G5 schools get ranked with 1 loss (hell Fresno State is ahead of UB with 2 losses) while Buffalo remains out. Buffalo has the best win of any of those teams too (at Temple).

Not trying to hate on Utah State, UAB and Fresno State but the pollsters are really pissing me off.

When your biggest win is over Rutgers, your margin of error is very low. So low that getting shellacked by Army 42-13 will keep you out of the polls.

That Temple win is looking better and better as the year goes on, but Temple was pretty godawful at the beginning of the season. But you're in trouble if you're hanging your hat on a win over at team that lost to an FCS team with a losing record.
11-11-2018 05:27 PM
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SUisBigEast4ever Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-11-2018 05:27 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When your biggest win is over Rutgers, your margin of error is very low. So low that getting shellacked by Army 42-13 will keep you out of the polls.

That Temple win is looking better and better as the year goes on, but Temple was pretty godawful at the beginning of the season. But you're in trouble if you're hanging your hat on a win over at team that lost to an FCS team with a losing record.

Again Buffalo's win over Temple is far better than any win Utah State, Fresno State or UAB had. How can you even debate that? Their next best wins are as good as any UAB or Fresno State win as well.

Rutgers is Buffalo's biggest win? Did you pull that out of your rear end because that's nowhere near the truth. Temple, Toledo, Eastern Michigan (beat Purdue) and Akron (beat Northwestern and played Iowa State tough) are far better than them. Even Miami (OH) is better than them. Miami is a lot better than their record indicates... two 1-point losses against good / decent teams. It's not a murderer's row schedule but go look at UAB, Fresno State and Utah State's schedules.

UAB got crushed by Coastal Carolina. Army is far better than them.

And that score against Army is more lopsided than it should've been. Buffalo couldn't get out of their own way that game. Everything that could go wrong did.

Buffalo had one TD called back on a hold. Their backup WR dropped another TD. On the next play they had a field goal blocked that was returned for a TD. They went for it on 4th down deep in their own territory in the 4th quarter giving Army a short field for another TD. And their star player Anthony Johnson was out. The offense is a machine when he plays. Just one of those games where nothing went right. But it's still way better than getting blown out by Coastal Carolina.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2018 06:57 PM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-11-2018 06:39 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-11-2018 03:59 PM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  I'm almost convinced that if they played 20 games and Buffalo was 19-1 they still would keep them out of the rankings.

According to the Massey computers, here are the best G5 teams:

UCF .... 12

Utah State ... 20

Fresno ........ 24

Cincy .......... 25

Boise .......... 26

Buffalo ........ 36

UAB ............ 40

So, if your complaint is that Buffalo is ranked behind UAB in the Coach's poll, then there's something to that. But if it is that Buffalo is not in the Top 25, that's harder to justify.
11-12-2018 09:50 AM
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SUisBigEast4ever Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
And here is Colley's computer rankings:

#9 UCF

#13 Cincinnati

#16 Buffalo

#17 Boise State

#20 Utah state

#23 UAB

#32 Fresno State

Computer rankings are all over the place and Colley looks far more accurate than Massey if you actually study the schedules / resumes of teams. And even Colley isn't perfect but it's the best one.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 10:18 AM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-12-2018 10:16 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 10:16 AM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  Computer rankings are all over the place and Colley looks far more accurate than Massey if you actually study the schedules / resumes of teams. And even Colley isn't perfect but it's the best one.

That's why it's better to go with the Massey Composite (not Massey alone, sorry if I didn't make that clear, my post was based on the composite) than with any one single computer like Massey, Colley, Sagarin, etc. The composite aggregates 100 or so computers to get a blended average.

But FWIW, Colley by itself is probably one of the least accurate stand-alone computers. Remember, they picked UCF as national champs last year, Alabama as national champs in 2016 (even though Alabama lost the title game to Clemson) and Notre Dame as national champs in 2012 (even though they lost the title game to Alabama).

Colley has come up with some cra-cra rankings in recent years. Heck, in 2014 they had FSU at #2 over Oregon in the final rankings even though Oregon beat FSU by about a zillion points in their playoff game. Bizarro stuff.
11-12-2018 10:29 AM
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SUisBigEast4ever Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's why it's better to go with the Massey Composite (not Massey alone, sorry if I didn't make that clear, my post was based on the composite) than with any one single computer like Massey, Colley, Sagarin, etc. The composite aggregates 100 or so computers to get a blended average.

But FWIW, Colley by itself is probably one of the least accurate stand-alone computers. Remember, they picked UCF as national champs last year, Alabama as national champs in 2016 (even though Alabama lost the title game to Clemson) and Notre Dame as national champs in 2012 (even though they lost the title game to Alabama).

Colley has come up with some cra-cra rankings in recent years. Heck, in 2014 they had FSU at #2 over Oregon in the final rankings even though Oregon beat FSU by about a zillion points in their playoff game. Bizarro stuff.

Almost every computer ranking has massive flaws in them. Massey is really bad too (which I know is a composite meaning the majority of computers suck). I could pick it apart so easy.

The absolute funniest one is ESPN's FPI. God where to start with that one. It's all sorts of comical. Far and away the most embarrassing computer system ever made.

So I'm going by how I've studied the schedules.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 10:56 AM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-12-2018 10:51 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 10:51 AM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's why it's better to go with the Massey Composite (not Massey alone, sorry if I didn't make that clear, my post was based on the composite) than with any one single computer like Massey, Colley, Sagarin, etc. The composite aggregates 100 or so computers to get a blended average.

But FWIW, Colley by itself is probably one of the least accurate stand-alone computers. Remember, they picked UCF as national champs last year, Alabama as national champs in 2016 (even though Alabama lost the title game to Clemson) and Notre Dame as national champs in 2012 (even though they lost the title game to Alabama).

Colley has come up with some cra-cra rankings in recent years. Heck, in 2014 they had FSU at #2 over Oregon in the final rankings even though Oregon beat FSU by about a zillion points in their playoff game. Bizarro stuff.

Almost every computer ranking has massive flaws in them. Massey is really bad too (which I know is a composite meaning the majority of computers suck). I could pick it apart so easy.

The absolute funniest one is ESPN's FPI. God where to start with that one. It's all sorts of comical. Far and away the most embarrassing computer system ever made.

So I'm going by how I've studied the schedules.

The problem with this approach is you (and I) are biased. You like Colley because it has Buffalo highly ranked, and wouldn't you guess, you're a Buffalo fan (go figure).

As for Massey, there are two different rankings. Massey has his own standalone rankings, like Sagarin and Colley, and then he has an aggregate of about 100 rankings.

The composite is clearly the best way to go, precisely because the massive flaws tend to even themselves out. That's why the old BCS system used a composite of computers, throwing the top and bottom outliers out.

FWIW, I agree with you that Buffalo has played a better schedule than UAB, so it's hard to figure why the Coaches put UAB in the top 25. But truth is, neither should be in the Top 25. Both have played very soft schedules.
11-12-2018 11:44 AM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 10:16 AM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  Computer rankings are all over the place and Colley looks far more accurate than Massey if you actually study the schedules / resumes of teams. And even Colley isn't perfect but it's the best one.

That's why it's better to go with the Massey Composite (not Massey alone, sorry if I didn't make that clear, my post was based on the composite) than with any one single computer like Massey, Colley, Sagarin, etc. The composite aggregates 100 or so computers to get a blended average.

But FWIW, Colley by itself is probably one of the least accurate stand-alone computers. Remember, they picked UCF as national champs last year, Alabama as national champs in 2016 (even though Alabama lost the title game to Clemson) and Notre Dame as national champs in 2012 (even though they lost the title game to Alabama).

Colley has come up with some cra-cra rankings in recent years. Heck, in 2014 they had FSU at #2 over Oregon in the final rankings even though Oregon beat FSU by about a zillion points in their playoff game. Bizarro stuff.

Colley is one of the worst. That it was used in bcs is a sign of what a mess that was
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 03:29 PM by bullet.)
11-12-2018 03:29 PM
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wleakr Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
UAB & Buffalo still needs for AAC/MW to cannibalize themselves before thinking about where they sit in the polls. As it stands, I don't see Buffalo beating NIU in the champ game...
11-12-2018 03:44 PM
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YNot Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
Bad loss to not-yet-ranked Army at home. Best win is over a 6-4 unranked Temple team...that lost to an FCS school. Next biggest win? EMU? Toledo? Akron? Rutgers? That's not a great resume and definitely not enough to warrant a complaint that you're *not* in the top-25.

You have a chance at the top-25 if you beat NIU for the MAC championship, and Army and Temple continue to win down the stretch.
11-12-2018 03:53 PM
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SUisBigEast4ever Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 03:53 PM)YNot Wrote:  Bad loss to not-yet-ranked Army at home. Best win is over a 6-4 unranked Temple team...that lost to an FCS school. Next biggest win? EMU? Toledo? Akron? Rutgers? That's not a great resume and definitely not enough to warrant a complaint that you're *not* in the top-25.

You have a chance at the top-25 if you beat NIU for the MAC championship, and Army and Temple continue to win down the stretch.

Name the great Utah State, UAB and Fresno State wins. Oh wait you can't because they they don't have any that's better yet they've all been / are in the top 25.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 07:22 PM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-12-2018 07:21 PM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 07:21 PM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 03:53 PM)YNot Wrote:  Bad loss to not-yet-ranked Army at home. Best win is over a 6-4 unranked Temple team...that lost to an FCS school. Next biggest win? EMU? Toledo? Akron? Rutgers? That's not a great resume and definitely not enough to warrant a complaint that you're *not* in the top-25.

You have a chance at the top-25 if you beat NIU for the MAC championship, and Army and Temple continue to win down the stretch.

Name the great Utah State, UAB and Fresno State wins. Oh wait you can't because they they don't have any that's better yet they've all been / are in the top 25.

Buffalo was crushed by Army, and Army hasn't been ranked either, eh?
11-12-2018 07:31 PM
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SUisBigEast4ever Offline
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 03:44 PM)wleakr Wrote:  UAB & Buffalo still needs for AAC/MW to cannibalize themselves before thinking about where they sit in the polls. As it stands, I don't see Buffalo beating NIU in the champ game...

The thing about that is Utah State hasn't had to play Boise State, Fresno State or San Diego State. They've played all the bad teams in their conference. They will get Boise State the final week though so that will be a chance to get a good win.

People think the MWC is a better conference than the MAC so the teams will play a tougher schedule. But again sometimes you avoid playing the top teams.

Pollsters still have no problem putting them at #13 in the Coaches and #14 in the AP Poll though. While UB sits outside the top 25 while playing a tougher schedule so far.

I'm not saying any of the G5 teams have really impressive wins / schedules. But generally if you go 9-1 you will get ranked even despite those schedules. And that's evidenced by the fact that they've put every single one of those teams in the top 25 except UB so far (who again has the best wins of any of those teams so far).
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 07:32 PM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-12-2018 07:32 PM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 07:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Buffalo was crushed by Army, and Army hasn't been ranked either, eh?

Army should be ranked. I've never once said they shouldn't be.

I don't think Buffalo was crushed either. The score says they were but read my post earlier in this thread (7th post) about that game. A lot of really fluky plays drastically changed that score around by a massive margin. Plus UB was without their stud player Anthony Johnson. Army was the better team that day but the game was played a lot closer than that score indicates.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 07:36 PM by SUisBigEast4ever.)
11-12-2018 07:34 PM
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RE: Coaches Poll out
(11-12-2018 07:34 PM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 07:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Buffalo was crushed by Army, and Army hasn't been ranked either, eh?

Army should be ranked. I've never once said they shouldn't be.

I don't think Buffalo was crushed either. The score says they were but read my post earlier in this thread (7th post) about that game. A lot of really fluky plays drastically changed that score around by a massive margin. Plus UB was without their stud player Anthony Johnson. Army was the better team that day but the game was played a lot closer than that score indicates.

A 29 point loss is a wipeout. Yes, I read your 7th post, basically it's a lot Buffalo-fan spin doctoring to make the loss seem not so bad.

But I looked at the stats, and Army had 11 more first downs, had the ball for 37 minutes to 22 for the buffs, and gained 120 more yards. And you guys even won the turnover battle. And Army was way better when it mattered most - they were a whopping 12 of 17 on 3rd and 4th down attempts while Buffalo was a turrible 2 of 13. So on the big plays, Army proved to be a lot better.

When you win the turnover battle and still get blasted by 29, well, that's a major arse-kicking.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 08:50 PM by quo vadis.)
11-12-2018 08:48 PM
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