(11-12-2018 08:28 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  As UCF and Cincinnati gear up for a huge game on national tv, listen carefully to how Espin guys spin the game. If they are treating the teams and game with respect: Prepare for espn to help delver them up to the big 12. If they continue to downplay them then that means both are expected to be a part of the AAC in the future (keep the new media deal $ down)
Just a hunch...

How to know? Is hell freezing over?

PAC 12 still makes the most sense if UT and OU decide to leave because they can anchor an East division with perhaps Tech and Ok St. B1G West also makes sense but I don't think the B1G will want anyone else from that conference as a travel partner.

Then the Big 12 can back fill, and we'd have basically a P4 P(Light)1 G5 split. All in all, I think it is prudent for the Big 12 to expand sooner rather than later before further departures.

(11-13-2018 01:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  PAC 12 still makes the most sense if UT and OU decide to leave because they can anchor an East division with perhaps Tech and Ok St. B1G West also makes sense but I don't think the B1G will want anyone else from that conference as a travel partner.

Then the Big 12 can back fill, and we'd have basically a P4 P(Light)1 G5 split. All in all, I think it is prudent for the Big 12 to expand sooner rather than later before further departures.

Expanding in anticipation of departures isn't necessary. It's not like the Big 12 will have trouble finding replacements.

(11-13-2018 12:22 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm not sure why everyone struggles with this but the collective BIG XII ego will never allow them to add a "City State" school. If they didn't add Louisville, they aren't going to add Cinci or Memphis. UCF/USF is a different animal but their basketball sucks and as long as it does they will be a no go. If OU and Texas leave, please disregard everything above.

If a city name school has no chance then a directional school has even less of a chance to join the Big XII. Texas does not want to be associated with directional schools and what Texas wants is what the Big XII does.

The Big XII can wait and see what happens once the GOR expires. It’s not like the ACC and SEC are going after the U_F twins or any other AAC school.

(11-13-2018 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 12:22 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm not sure why everyone struggles with this but the collective BIG XII ego will never allow them to add a "City State" school. If they didn't add Louisville, they aren't going to add Cinci or Memphis. UCF/USF is a different animal but their basketball sucks and as long as it does they will be a no go. If OU and Texas leave, please disregard everything above.

If a city name school has no chance then a directional school has even less of a chance to join the Big XII. Texas does not want to be associated with directional schools and what Texas wants is what the Big XII does.

The Big XII can wait and see what happens once the GOR expires. It’s not like the ACC and SEC are going after the U_F twins or any other AAC school.

I would agree but UCF and their 60K students, which happens to be located in the top football recruiting state, isn't exactly your normal directional. With that said, if they still had the rights to the "Florida Tech" the deal would already be done. Probably doesn't matter now though, UT, OU, and KU are going to bolt for greener pastures.

(11-12-2018 11:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  People way over-estimate how all of this is connected imo.
1. Even if ESPN was pushing for expansion, the on air personalities arent going to know. The head coaches at schools rarely even know much before things go down (some times not even the ADs). ESPN would not want that many people knowing it was pushing something like that as it could cost them in many ways.
2. ESPN is already paying for UCF and Cincinnati. It is not going to want to pay more for the same properties especially when it would be splitting them with FOX in the Big 12.
3. Along with the last one, the most direct we have seen the networks push anything they were pushing against expansion. The Big 12 could have died last round but ESPN and FOX came in with an offer they were not required to just to keep the Big 12 around.
4. None of this means expansion won't happen, but it will not be ESPN led, it will be led by the Big 12. Sure they will consult media experts a lot to see what values different schools will have, but any extra money they get if it comes to that will be reluctantly given by ESPN/FOX not something they are actively pushing. They would much, much rather have several strong entities to bid on and push against each other than increasingly big conferences with more power.

We already know who the ESPN on air personalities want into a P5 conference. Just having troubles getting the P5 take them.
Top 5 schools:
1.Boise State
2.BYU
3.Houston
4.UCF
5.Cincinnati

Boise State is on ESPN's top list because of their record since 1999.

USF. East Carolina, UConn., USF, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, Fresno State, San Diego State, Toledo, Western Michigan, Temple are the next order. ESPN is slowly losing west coast and mid-west football as they are going to Fox.

If ESPN could create a new conference that takes parts of eastern, midwest, central and west coast? We could see an offer much better than what is being given to the AAC right now.

(11-13-2018 02:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 11:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  People way over-estimate how all of this is connected imo.
1. Even if ESPN was pushing for expansion, the on air personalities arent going to know. The head coaches at schools rarely even know much before things go down (some times not even the ADs). ESPN would not want that many people knowing it was pushing something like that as it could cost them in many ways.
2. ESPN is already paying for UCF and Cincinnati. It is not going to want to pay more for the same properties especially when it would be splitting them with FOX in the Big 12.
3. Along with the last one, the most direct we have seen the networks push anything they were pushing against expansion. The Big 12 could have died last round but ESPN and FOX came in with an offer they were not required to just to keep the Big 12 around.
4. None of this means expansion won't happen, but it will not be ESPN led, it will be led by the Big 12. Sure they will consult media experts a lot to see what values different schools will have, but any extra money they get if it comes to that will be reluctantly given by ESPN/FOX not something they are actively pushing. They would much, much rather have several strong entities to bid on and push against each other than increasingly big conferences with more power.

We already know who the ESPN on air personalities want into a P5 conference. Just having troubles getting the P5 take them.
Top 5 schools:
1.Boise State
2.BYU
3.Houston
4.UCF
5.Cincinnati

Boise State is on ESPN's top list because of their record since 1999.

USF. East Carolina, UConn., USF, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, Fresno State, San Diego State, Toledo, Western Michigan, Temple are the next order. ESPN is slowly losing west coast and mid-west football as they are going to Fox.

If ESPN could create a new conference that takes parts of eastern, midwest, central and west coast? We could see an offer much better than what is being given to the AAC right now.

Hahahahaha....nice touching throwing Northern Dakota St in on ESPN’s P5 wish list. Bawhahahahaha

(11-12-2018 10:32 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 10:08 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 08:44 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The thing is the Big XII doesn’t need help from UCF, Cincinnati or any G5 school. They have three schools in the top 15 and Oklahoma at West Virginia on Thanksgiving weekend will feature two top 10 teams (if both win this weekend) and a possible spot in the playoffs.

Also those three XII teams are having typical years while UCF & UC are over achieving.

Not really. UC has a 3rd string RB who had 40 offers and decommitted from Oklahoma. We also have multiple players that had offers from OSU, Alabama, LSU, Georgia etc. This could be UCF's 3rd access bowl in 5 years. Ironically UC's starting QB and RB had few offers. When was the last time WVU was in the top Ten, Big East?

Nope, I think with Geno Smith, but the wheels came off after a 5-0 start.

(11-13-2018 02:50 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 02:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 11:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  People way over-estimate how all of this is connected imo.
1. Even if ESPN was pushing for expansion, the on air personalities arent going to know. The head coaches at schools rarely even know much before things go down (some times not even the ADs). ESPN would not want that many people knowing it was pushing something like that as it could cost them in many ways.
2. ESPN is already paying for UCF and Cincinnati. It is not going to want to pay more for the same properties especially when it would be splitting them with FOX in the Big 12.
3. Along with the last one, the most direct we have seen the networks push anything they were pushing against expansion. The Big 12 could have died last round but ESPN and FOX came in with an offer they were not required to just to keep the Big 12 around.
4. None of this means expansion won't happen, but it will not be ESPN led, it will be led by the Big 12. Sure they will consult media experts a lot to see what values different schools will have, but any extra money they get if it comes to that will be reluctantly given by ESPN/FOX not something they are actively pushing. They would much, much rather have several strong entities to bid on and push against each other than increasingly big conferences with more power.

We already know who the ESPN on air personalities want into a P5 conference. Just having troubles getting the P5 take them.
Top 5 schools:
1.Boise State
2.BYU
3.Houston
4.UCF
5.Cincinnati

Boise State is on ESPN's top list because of their record since 1999.

USF. East Carolina, UConn., USF, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, Fresno State, San Diego State, Toledo, Western Michigan, Temple are the next order. ESPN is slowly losing west coast and mid-west football as they are going to Fox.

If ESPN could create a new conference that takes parts of eastern, midwest, central and west coast? We could see an offer much better than what is being given to the AAC right now.

Hahahahaha....nice touching throwing Northern Dakota St in on ESPN’s P5 wish list. Bawhahahahaha

Well, ESPN likes them better than Rice, Tulsa, Tulane, SMU and some others. We know how well ESPN likes showing them as an upset alert against P5 teams. If they were in Big 12 today? They could beat kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas and TCU. They could give the Sooners a better buck for the money than Army. They are on the same level as UCF when playing football. NDSU have been beating all of their opponents this year by double digit numbers.

(11-13-2018 02:29 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 12:22 PM)Shox Wrote:  I'm not sure why everyone struggles with this but the collective BIG XII ego will never allow them to add a "City State" school. If they didn't add Louisville, they aren't going to add Cinci or Memphis. UCF/USF is a different animal but their basketball sucks and as long as it does they will be a no go. If OU and Texas leave, please disregard everything above.

If a city name school has no chance then a directional school has even less of a chance to join the Big XII. Texas does not want to be associated with directional schools and what Texas wants is what the Big XII does.

The Big XII can wait and see what happens once the GOR expires. It’s not like the ACC and SEC are going after the U_F twins or any other AAC school.

I would agree but UCF and their 60K students, which happens to be located in the top football recruiting state, isn't exactly your normal directional. With that said, if they still had the rights to the "Florida Tech" the deal would already be done. Probably doesn't matter now though, UT, OU, and KU are going to bolt for greener pastures.

The SEC and ACC don’t want another P5 having a presence in Florida competing for 5 star recruits. Besides, the Great State of Texas has tons of football talent for schools like Texas so they don’t need Florida for recruiting purposes. That’s like saying Texas and Oklahoma want to go to the Pac-12 to recruit in California.

As I’ve said multiple times on this board, why would Texas leave for another conference when they have all they want in the Big XII? Texas has power issues not financial ones. The SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 won’t let Texas get away with what they do in the Big XII. Another important factor people keep forgetting is the last thing the Big XII needs is adding a bunch of G5 schools to “survive”. That’s a perception issue the conference does not want after the raid of 2010-11. As you mentioned, if UCF was Florida Tech or perhaps the University of Florida at Orlando then it would be possible but as things are now, Texas will refuse to be associated with a school that has a directional name on it with a low endowment.

(11-13-2018 02:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 11:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  People way over-estimate how all of this is connected imo.
1. Even if ESPN was pushing for expansion, the on air personalities arent going to know. The head coaches at schools rarely even know much before things go down (some times not even the ADs). ESPN would not want that many people knowing it was pushing something like that as it could cost them in many ways.
2. ESPN is already paying for UCF and Cincinnati. It is not going to want to pay more for the same properties especially when it would be splitting them with FOX in the Big 12.
3. Along with the last one, the most direct we have seen the networks push anything they were pushing against expansion. The Big 12 could have died last round but ESPN and FOX came in with an offer they were not required to just to keep the Big 12 around.
4. None of this means expansion won't happen, but it will not be ESPN led, it will be led by the Big 12. Sure they will consult media experts a lot to see what values different schools will have, but any extra money they get if it comes to that will be reluctantly given by ESPN/FOX not something they are actively pushing. They would much, much rather have several strong entities to bid on and push against each other than increasingly big conferences with more power.

We already know who the ESPN on air personalities want into a P5 conference. Just having troubles getting the P5 take them.
Top 5 schools:
1.Boise State
2.BYU
3.Houston
4.UCF
5.Cincinnati

Boise State is on ESPN's top list because of their record since 1999.

USF. East Carolina, UConn., USF, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, Fresno State, San Diego State, Toledo, Western Michigan, Temple are the next order. ESPN is slowly losing west coast and mid-west football as they are going to Fox.

If ESPN could create a new conference that takes parts of eastern, midwest, central and west coast? We could see an offer much better than what is being given to the AAC right now.

David,

How many times do we have to go through this? Boise State has done a great job in establishing a brand that most people recognize these days. However, the Pac-12 will never associate with a school that once was a community college. The MWC used the same argument to keep you out until it was imminent Utah was leaving. Unlike the MWC, the Pac-12 has nothing to worry about in being raided so they won’t compromise their academic standards. BYU has a better chance to join the Pac-12 and it has a less of a 1% chance of happening.

Boise is too far from Big XII country and even if they expand into the Rockies, Colorado State, BYU and even New Mexico have a better chance in getting that phone call than Boise State. Is it fair? Nope. I know exactly the feeling but it’d take probably two generations for school presidents (more than likely they’re still in high school) to be more inclusive instead of the snobby group we currently have in power.

(11-13-2018 02:56 PM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 10:32 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 10:08 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 08:44 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The thing is the Big XII doesn’t need help from UCF, Cincinnati or any G5 school. They have three schools in the top 15 and Oklahoma at West Virginia on Thanksgiving weekend will feature two top 10 teams (if both win this weekend) and a possible spot in the playoffs.

Also those three XII teams are having typical years while UCF & UC are over achieving.

Not really. UC has a 3rd string RB who had 40 offers and decommitted from Oklahoma. We also have multiple players that had offers from OSU, Alabama, LSU, Georgia etc. This could be UCF's 3rd access bowl in 5 years. Ironically UC's starting QB and RB had few offers. When was the last time WVU was in the top Ten, Big East?

Nope, I think with Geno Smith, but the wheels came off after a 5-0 start.

Last top ten finish was with Geno in the Big East after they Orange Bowl thrashing of Clemson?

(11-12-2018 09:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 08:44 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The thing is the Big XII doesn’t need help from UCF, Cincinnati or any G5 school. They have three schools in the top 15 and Oklahoma at West Virginia on Thanksgiving weekend will feature two top 10 teams (if both win this weekend) and a possible spot in the playoffs.

ESPN already made that call.

Yes, plus, the perceived problems with the Big 12 that drove Oklahoma to push for possible expansion from the G5 ranks two years ago have essentially been resolved to the Big 12's satisfaction, so there is zero interest within the Big 12 to expand via G5 anyway. Sure, if Arkansas and Texas A&M called up Big 12 headquarters and said "hey, we can we come back?", they'd roll out the red carpet. But not for anyone that is currently G5.

Tex was aware of Louisville recuriting practices, that why Louisville got shot down.
Now Tex does not want to be associated with directional/city schools

what does Tex want
the LHN to work as quasi B-12 network & make more money
get thier brand out to recurit students nationaly, especialy in NE, Midwest & Fla
Tex knows thier market is to small to compete with SEC & B-10
so to stay in thier group & turn the B-12 into national conf, not regional but national conf

expand with 8 schools & they accomplish this
BYU touches every state in Mountain & Pacific thru Mormon church
Conn & Buffalo are state schools that give NY & New England
UCF & So Fla are in 4th most populis state
Cin touches Indiana & Kentucky
Memp touches Ark & Miss
Temple touches So Jersey & DE

Hous & Hawaii to Pac-12

(11-12-2018 08:44 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The thing is the Big XII doesn’t need help from UCF, Cincinnati or any G5 school. They have three schools in the top 15 and Oklahoma at West Virginia on Thanksgiving weekend will feature two top 10 teams (if both win this weekend) and a possible spot in the playoffs.

Oklahoma:

1) Blown out by Texas only to luckback and lose at end
2) OT "win" vs Army at home - ridiculous as 28+ point favorites
3) pseudo-OT win vs OkSt - 14+ point favorite

For a team that is consistently in top 5 in recruiting, they shouldn't be anywhere near the Top 10.

(11-13-2018 02:50 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 02:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-12-2018 11:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  People way over-estimate how all of this is connected imo.
1. Even if ESPN was pushing for expansion, the on air personalities arent going to know. The head coaches at schools rarely even know much before things go down (some times not even the ADs). ESPN would not want that many people knowing it was pushing something like that as it could cost them in many ways.
2. ESPN is already paying for UCF and Cincinnati. It is not going to want to pay more for the same properties especially when it would be splitting them with FOX in the Big 12.
3. Along with the last one, the most direct we have seen the networks push anything they were pushing against expansion. The Big 12 could have died last round but ESPN and FOX came in with an offer they were not required to just to keep the Big 12 around.
4. None of this means expansion won't happen, but it will not be ESPN led, it will be led by the Big 12. Sure they will consult media experts a lot to see what values different schools will have, but any extra money they get if it comes to that will be reluctantly given by ESPN/FOX not something they are actively pushing. They would much, much rather have several strong entities to bid on and push against each other than increasingly big conferences with more power.

We already know who the ESPN on air personalities want into a P5 conference. Just having troubles getting the P5 take them.
Top 5 schools:
1.Boise State
2.BYU
3.Houston
4.UCF
5.Cincinnati

Boise State is on ESPN's top list because of their record since 1999.

USF. East Carolina, UConn., USF, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, Fresno State, San Diego State, Toledo, Western Michigan, Temple are the next order. ESPN is slowly losing west coast and mid-west football as they are going to Fox.

If ESPN could create a new conference that takes parts of eastern, midwest, central and west coast? We could see an offer much better than what is being given to the AAC right now.

Hahahahaha....nice touching throwing Northern Dakota St in on ESPN’s P5 wish list. Bawhahahahaha

ESPN has anointed Fargo for Gameday more than some P5 programs. David could be onto something. Maybe espn is trying to get a discount on oil.

You guys thoughts on how espn treated the AAC/UCF/Cincinnati on gameday today?
I love Lee Corso...good man.

I thought they We’re honest but respectful. It would be both dishonest and disrespectful to lie. They made valuable points regarding Houston a couple years ago. The playoff system is a system that every conference agreed to. I don’t necessarily think it is fair, but that doesn’t matter.

The better question, why would the Big12 want either of them?

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