(12-17-2018 05:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 02:20 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 09:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Chicago State has a new AD and new head coaches in both men's and women's basketball. They are just recovering from the state budget crisis, as are many other schools in Illinois. Chris Zorich, their new AD, needs time to turn the program around and the new basketball coaches need time to recruit better talent.

you make it sound as if the "state budget crisis" is over. Which is -- to say the least -- not the case. Agreed that the crisis is affecting every state university in ILL.

It is not a "crisis" anymore because schools are getting money from the state. The state budget itself is an ongoing issue. Many universities in Illinois have been dealing with a decline in enrollment that the state budget crisis just exacerbated.

Eastern Illinois and SIU-C have had issues similar to Chicago State.

Chicago State's issues run much deeper than SIU-C and EIU. SoCalBobcat is very disingenuous in his posts stating it's all or almost all a State budget issue. That has nothing to do with their problems with accreditation in some majors, a lack of elective courses making it literally impossible to graduate in over half the majors in the catalogue, failure to meet federal student loan requirements (that has consequences such as making it illegal for them to have any students receiveing federal aid attend a satellite campus, effectively shutting off that avenue of growth). The list goes on.

Athletics it starts with a complete lack of support from alumni or donors. Last year the school transferred $5,249,433 in school funds to keep athletics going. They also got a one-time individual contribution for $90,000. This contribution stands out because the total ticket sales for all sports from 2010-17 was $47,450, and donations besides that one big one for the same time frame were $17,015. The School budget is less than $60M for everything, meaning the transfer to Athletics represents nearly 10% of the school budget.

Do I expect CSU to throw in the towel? No, it's a mostly African-American school, and athletics is irrationally kept at higher levels than can be sustained at such institutions (the 4 D-I schools with smaller budgets than Chicago State, and 6 of the 7 immediately above them are all HBCU). And "White" Illinois politicos are too scared to touch the third rail to tell them to stop spending 10% of the school budget on athletics.

But looking at the lack of donation support, the inability to fulfill the catalogue it publishes, the problems with complying with federal student loan rules, and so on, have little to do with the state budget problem. Many of the issues are due to failed management. The best news for Chicago State is they have a competent President who is so far been able to purge key Watson cronies and may be coup proof, as Dr Calhoon was not. If anyone can start to correct the administrative failings and begin to improve the situation it seems Dr. Z Scott. But if she is brutal and honest, it's hard to see Athletics surviving at D-I, when D-II would free up $3-4M a year in school money. Then again it's a community issue (although the community is not supporting even with lunch money).

Stu, I never said that the Chicago State problems were about the state budget only. What I said was "Chicago State has a new AD and new head coaches in both men's and women's basketball. They are just recovering from the state budget crisis, as are many other schools in Illinois. Chris Zorich, their new AD, needs time to turn the program around and the new basketball coaches need time to recruit better talent."

There are obviously plenty of issues at Chicago State, but because they were getting no revenue from the state, it was very difficult to tackle those issues. They were trying to survive, as many other schools in the state were also trying to do. The schools were cutting staff and cutting academic programs and classes. It is kind of difficult to address issues like enrollment when you are cutting programs and classes.

The 2016-2017 athletic budget was only $5.1 million. There is not $3-4 million to save by dropping down to D2. The only other D2 public school in the state, University of Illinois-Springfield, had a $3.7 million athletic budget in 2016-2017.

Chicago State had basketball revenues of $1.180 million and basketball expenses of $701,571 in 2016-2017. They get about $100,000 in revenue from the WAC and they make about $500,000 per year on the guarantee games or money games. Illinois-Springfield had a budget of about $450,000 for men's basketball. So Chicago State might save about $250,000 in basketball expenses by dropping down to D2 and lose the revenue. It does not make sense for them to drop down at this time. Plus, they have their 7,000 seat arena that is paid for.

They need to become more competitive in athletics, but at least the graduation rate for student-athletes is a solid 73%.

(12-18-2018 04:30 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Stu, I never said that the Chicago State problems were about the state budget only. What I said was "Chicago State has a new AD and new head coaches in both men's and women's basketball. They are just recovering from the state budget crisis, as are many other schools in Illinois. Chris Zorich, their new AD, needs time to turn the program around and the new basketball coaches need time to recruit better talent."

There are obviously plenty of issues at Chicago State, but because they were getting no revenue from the state, it was very difficult to tackle those issues. They were trying to survive, as many other schools in the state were also trying to do. The schools were cutting staff and cutting academic programs and classes. It is kind of difficult to address issues like enrollment when you are cutting programs and classes.

The 2016-2017 athletic budget was only $5.1 million. There is not $3-4 million to save by dropping down to D2. The only other D2 public school in the state, University of Illinois-Springfield, had a $3.7 million athletic budget in 2016-2017.

Chicago State had basketball revenues of $1.180 million and basketball expenses of $701,571 in 2016-2017. They get about $100,000 in revenue from the WAC and they make about $500,000 per year on the guarantee games or money games. Illinois-Springfield had a budget of about $450,000 for men's basketball. So Chicago State might save about $250,000 in basketball expenses by dropping down to D2 and lose the revenue. It does not make sense for them to drop down at this time. Plus, they have their 7,000 seat arena that is paid for.

They need to become more competitive in athletics, but at least the graduation rate for student-athletes is a solid 73%.

If you guys read the latest stuff that I posted about closures/mergers? It shows that public schools could wind up merging like what we saw in Texas, Georgia, Alabama and Wisconsin. State of Connecticut is going to merge schools. They are doing this to cut the budget. The state of Arizona cut spending to the Phoenix area community colleges and spend it to the 3 big schools and the 2 important CCs in Arizona like Eastern and Western. I think the CCs in the Phoenix area could be consolidated into the 3 big schools and Eastern Arizona. The western CCs would be consolidated into Arizona Western. Spending for 5 schools is better than spending for 20+ schools that demand state funding.

The danger for D2 right now is that the smaller schools have recently closed, merged into other schools or either moved to D1 and D2. The 10,000 plus schools like Dixie State, Colorado Mesa, Metro State and Tarleton State need to move on for the future. They do not know when some of the schools around them would get merged or close.

(12-17-2018 12:08 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 09:59 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Not so sure on UMKC AD. He’s moving them away from the historic municipal auditorium (final game Saturday) back on campus for D1’s 4th smallest gym. That implies an overarching expense control strategy.

The decision on that move was made about two months before the new AD took the job. At a place like UMKC, expense control is very important. According to UMKC, they save $150,000 per year playing on campus. At this point in time, they can play in front of 2,000 people in Municipal or they can try to sell out Sweeney and play in front of 1,600 fans.

The fundraising piece of it is really important. They need the financial support of the alumni and the community to succeed. They will never do it on their athletic budget alone. The WAC is not a great fit for them, but their is no exit fee from the WAC. The Summit has a $1 million exit fee and a $250,000 entry fee. If the goal is to be in the MVC, why even bother with Summit?

UMKC has 0% chance, ok maybe a 1% chance of ever getting an invite into the MVC. The Summit has no interest in bringing them back. I don't see them leaving the WAC unless it is to drop down to D2.

(12-20-2018 04:16 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 12:08 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 09:59 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Not so sure on UMKC AD. He’s moving them away from the historic municipal auditorium (final game Saturday) back on campus for D1’s 4th smallest gym. That implies an overarching expense control strategy.

The decision on that move was made about two months before the new AD took the job. At a place like UMKC, expense control is very important. According to UMKC, they save $150,000 per year playing on campus. At this point in time, they can play in front of 2,000 people in Municipal or they can try to sell out Sweeney and play in front of 1,600 fans.

The fundraising piece of it is really important. They need the financial support of the alumni and the community to succeed. They will never do it on their athletic budget alone. The WAC is not a great fit for them, but their is no exit fee from the WAC. The Summit has a $1 million exit fee and a $250,000 entry fee. If the goal is to be in the MVC, why even bother with Summit?

UMKC has 0% chance, ok maybe a 1% chance of ever getting an invite into the MVC. The Summit has no interest in bringing them back. I don't see them leaving the WAC unless it is to drop down to D2.

Adding baseball and groveling a lot might get them back into the Summit. If that doesn't work then they are stuck in the WAC forever.

It seems Northern Colorado is not happy in the Big Sky since they have not been winning titles in the conference. Been reading Northern Colorado to the WAC could be possible. We have been seeing them listed as an expansion candidate for Summitt. I do not see them winning titles there either.

WAC football:
Northern Colorado
Dixie State
Tarleton State
Colorado Mesa


It is also being said that people at Sam Houston State and SFAU are not happy with the Southland right now because the conference got diluted by adding Houston Baptist, Incarnate Word and Abilene Christian instead of adding stronger teams like Tarleton State, Commerce, Kingsville or Midwestern State.

Lonestar Conference schools that have been talking about moving up may take the exit ramp because the conference grew to 20. Too many mouths to feed in D2.

Prairie View seems willing to leave the SWAC the way Hampton U. left the MEAC. I could see more HBCU schools looking to leave both MEAC and SWAC.

Musical chairs going on with these talks.

Schools could also be looking at how Liberty fairs in FBS independent. We might see some FCS schools could try and get a waiver to join FBS as an Independents in the future.

Now, if all these pieces fall in place, we might see the GNAC schools lobby to join the WAC as well. CWU need to add sports, but they do have club teams that are easily turned into varsity teams. UMKC goes back to Summit. Chicago State goes to another conference or merge into another school.

WAC football:
CWU
Western Oregon
Simon Fraser
Azusa Pacific
Colorado Mesa
Northern Colorado
Dixie State
UTRGV adding football
Tarleton State
West Texas A&M/Midwestern State/Angelo State/Commerce/Kingsville

Non-football:
Seattle
New Mexico State
Grand Canyon
Cal. Baptist
Western Washington
Alaska merged campuses.

10/16 team conference. This could stabilized the WAC for many years now.

Links?

UNC won’t go to the WAC. If they ever left the big sky it would be to reunite joy in the Dakota schools iand Omaha

When did D1 change their rules to allow international members?

(12-22-2018 11:19 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Links?

UNC won’t go to the WAC. If they ever left the big sky it would be to reunite joy in the Dakota schools iand Omaha

You know he doesn’t have links. He’s full of crap

(12-22-2018 02:57 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 11:19 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Links?

UNC won’t go to the WAC. If they ever left the big sky it would be to reunite joy in the Dakota schools iand Omaha

You know he doesn’t have links. He’s full of crap

But he'll post a long list of links when his fan gives him praise for a correct "prediction".

The only reason Liberty was granted indy status was because the NCAA knew they would lose in court when challenged. As no invites had been extended to LU, and that was their only means via conference affiliation, LU was going to crush the NCAA with the ruling and the NCAA knew it. The easiest path of resistance for the NCAA was to grant LU indy FBS status. LU would have to fend for itself and meet the scheduling and FBS requirements. LU was both the poster child being both the team no conference wanted, and the most prepared and ready, and carried a big stick to clobber the NCAA if needed. Do any of these schools have the resources and clout that LU did? Not to my knowledge.

(12-22-2018 07:35 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  The only reason Liberty was granted indy status was because the NCAA knew they would lose in court when challenged. As no invites had been extended to LU, and that was their only means via conference affiliation, LU was going to crush the NCAA with the ruling and the NCAA knew it. The easiest path of resistance for the NCAA was to grant LU indy FBS status. LU would have to fend for itself and meet the scheduling and FBS requirements. LU was both the poster child being both the team no conference wanted, and the most prepared and ready, and carried a big stick to clobber the NCAA if needed. Do any of these schools have the resources and clout that LU did? Not to my knowledge.

That's the thing ... while IANDL, if no conference would accept Liberty because of justifiable concerns with Liberty being able to support a program at an FBS level, the NCAA might still be on shaky ground, but at least they would have a case. But given that no conference wished to invite Liberty because of "institutional fit", the NCAA surely had its lawyers advising them to avoid having a court case against Liberty setting the precedent for the legality of that particular by-law.

In any event, the amount of money that Liberty is spending to maintain itself as an independent is the basis for a cautionary tale of its own. Few institutions have those kinds of resources, and the ones that do and wish to have FBS programs pretty much do have FBS programs.

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(12-22-2018 11:19 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Links?

Since he is not the ONLY person that engages in idle speculation with only the loosest of connections with reality, it's quite plausible that he's read it "somewhere".

And, maybe he's been reading it in his own drafts of future idle speculations of your own. TBF, it's hard to post links when what you "are reading" is your own idle speculation that you haven't posted yet.

(12-16-2018 09:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Chicago State has a new AD and new head coaches in both men's and women's basketball. They are just recovering from the state budget crisis, as are many other schools in Illinois. Chris Zorich, their new AD, needs time to turn the program around and the new basketball coaches need time to recruit better talent.

As a Tulane fan, I know better than most that “rebuilding” can take a long, long time. But for CSU, the writing sure seems to be on the wall as far as continued participation in NCAA-Division I athletics is concerned. I'm sorry to see this happen.