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Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
(12-16-2018 05:53 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Another factor is younger people won’t put up with the haves and have nots of college football. If you’re over 30 years old, the status quo might be acceptable but a current college or high school student is seriously questioning why UCF which has been 25-0 in two years can’t qualify for a CFP spot decided on BS metrics by dinosaurs in a closed room just because they don’t belong in a special, privileged, traditional group.

Remember, it's not just the CFP dinosaurs in the room that don't have UCF in the playoffs, nobody else - human or computer - does either.

And anyway, you just made what the kids will tolerate up. I bet they couldn't care less. 07-coffee3
12-17-2018 02:03 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
(12-17-2018 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  it's not just the CFP dinosaurs in the room that don't have UCF in the playoffs, nobody else - human or computer - does either.

And anyway, you just made what the kids will tolerate up. I bet they couldn't care less. 07-coffee3
It's not that UCF's exclusion from the playoffs is actually "bothering" anybody outside of UCF's own fan base. But it does highlight the fact that that FBS-level college football is (compared to almost any other college/pro sport) uniquely beholden to the "dinosaurs" in deciding who gets invited to the party. So never mind "putting up with it" -- it's just another reason to tune out and not-care in the first place.
12-17-2018 02:54 PM
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
1. Most of the talk was about Football, but I gave Men's Basketball attendance at the beginning.

2. I was just thinking that TV affects schools differently. Hofstra used to have a majority of their Men's Basketball games and now has none. The CAA does not have a TV contract. It is nice to feel like the CAA matters, and in 2015-2016 they had plenty of games on Comcast RSNs and some on NBC Sports Network. The CAA streams all their games for free online, but now nobody can watch Hofstra on TV rather than going to them. I would think the increase in games on TV hurts the more popular schools more in attendance. Last season's Men's Basketball attendance was 5,084. If each conference hosts the same amount of games this season, all games at the top six conferences decrease attendance by 10 percent, and games at the other 278 school increase attendance by 10 percent, this season will have an all-time low of 4,647, which would be an 8.6 percent decrease.
12-17-2018 08:46 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
Quote:But it does highlight the fact that that FBS-level college football is (compared to almost any other college/pro sport) uniquely beholden to the "dinosaurs" in deciding who gets invited to the party.

I would say it's more beholden to the "dinosaurs" in deciding how big that party will be, with the mindset of who should even be going to a big party.
12-17-2018 09:02 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
Schools are consciously trading gate revenue for TV revenue. They may lose $5 million if attendance drops by 20% but they gain $30 million in TV revenue (just guessing at the numbers).

I don't think it would hurt TV viewership if they were to reinstate blackouts and it would help attendance.

Baby boomers are aging out of the market. They just don't want the hassles and expense.

Some time ago, Duke looked at replacing its basketball arena. Rival UNC had just built a shiny new 21,000 seat arena. Duke certainty had the money to build something new. They certainly could fill a larger arena. They chose to refurbish the existing arena. It's small but is always packed. It doesn't hurt that Duke got considerably better since then either. So now they get premium ticket prices plus premium donations.
12-17-2018 09:15 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
(12-17-2018 02:54 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  it's not just the CFP dinosaurs in the room that don't have UCF in the playoffs, nobody else - human or computer - does either.

And anyway, you just made what the kids will tolerate up. I bet they couldn't care less. 07-coffee3
It's not that UCF's exclusion from the playoffs is actually "bothering" anybody outside of UCF's own fan base. But it does highlight the fact that that FBS-level college football is (compared to almost any other college/pro sport) uniquely beholden to the "dinosaurs" in deciding who gets invited to the party. So never mind "putting up with it" -- it's just another reason to tune out and not-care in the first place.

Remember, these threads juxtapose attendance and TV viewership as if they are oppositional. They might be, but they might not be.

E.g., imagine that a school's attendance at football games for a season would be 300,000 (about 43,000 a game for 7 home games) if there was no TV, and the school's total revenue from that attendance (tickets, concessions, parking, etc.) would be $14 million or about $2m per game.

Now, let's say that with a TV deal, the attendance falls to 270,000, a 10% decline, as many who would have come to a game decide to stay home and watch on TV. As a result, revenue from attendance falls by 10% as well, to $12.6m.

That sounds like a loss for the school, but if the TV contract pays them $4m a year, then the school actually is up $2.6 million over the no-TV, higher attendance situation.

So when talking about declining attendance due to TV, we have to figure in how they interact this way.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2018 01:02 PM by quo vadis.)
12-18-2018 01:01 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
Years ago, a friend who is a Razorback season ticket holder told me he only went to games that were televised, if TV didn't think it was a good game he wouldn't waste his time. I have no idea how he sorts games now with everything on TV.
12-18-2018 01:13 PM
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
(12-18-2018 01:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Remember, these threads juxtapose attendance and TV viewership as if they are oppositional. They might be, but they might not be.

E.g., imagine that a school's attendance at football games for a season would be 300,000 (about 43,000 a game for 7 home games) if there was no TV, and the school's total revenue from that attendance (tickets, concessions, parking, etc.) would be $14 million or about $2m per game.

Now, let's say that with a TV deal, the attendance falls to 270,000, a 10% decline, as many who would have come to a game decide to stay home and watch on TV. As a result, revenue from attendance falls by 10% as well, to $12.6m.

That sounds like a loss for the school, but if the TV contract pays them $4m a year, then the school actually is up $2.6 million over the no-TV, higher attendance situation.

So when talking about declining attendance due to TV, we have to figure in how they interact this way.
I know the TV money gain could be more the attendance loss. Attendance is easily available, but it is hard or impossible to find out teams' athletics revenue from TV, radio, fans at games, merchandise, sponsors, donors, etc. combined. The NCAA has the attendance for each team in a PDF, but they're never going to have the athletics revenue for each team. TV deals are made by conferences, and two teams in the same conference getting the same amount of TV money may not be equally happy with the TV contract.
12-18-2018 10:05 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(12-15-2018 12:29 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Almost all college and most pro sports are reporting attendance declines, and it's more complex than just because of the growth of television and internet streaming of home games. It's certainly a part of it -- HDTV, bigger home screens and mobile options have made those options way more attractive for people to stay out of the home arena, made worse by the often extortionate pricing for game tickets, parking and concessions that schools must charge to keep up in the college sports arms race.

We're also in an era with far more entertainment options competing for our time - both screened entertainment and destination entertainment, coupled with increased time demands from work and family. Students are also increasingly debt-laden, more academically focused and international, which reduces student attendance and engagement.

Honestly, there are too many games on the schedules - a 10% reduction might make these games more desirable.
Outstanding summary of a complex situation.

Everything you’ve said here is true, but I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

Went to a MSU/IU game this year where the cheapest walk-up ticket was...$70. There were multiple couples/families turning around and heading home.

For football, the hassle of parking and walking certainly drives older folks and casuals away. Some stadiums you can get there an hour beforehand and not get into the stadium until after kickoff because the setup/signage are so disorganized, or the town infrastructurally is simply not equiped to handle a sellout crowd (Evanston, IL).
12-23-2018 03:13 PM
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RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
(12-15-2018 06:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

The stadiums that don't sell out every week, even in the Big Ten and SEC, are not charging too much. Indiana and Vanderbilt tickets are not overpriced. It's likely that every place that has a hard time selling out would still have a hard time even if every ticket was $20.

Conversely, Ohio State and Alabama aren't scaring people away even though an end zone ticket for an attractive game is around $100.

Not true. MSU@IU game I attended had dozens of people turning around because the cheapest walk-up price was $70.

Looking at their website, the cheapest Maryland ticket was $70 and the cheapest Ball State was $50. Definitely too much for many middle class folks given IU’s program.
12-23-2018 03:25 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Does Having More Games on TV Hurt Attendance?
To answer the question - of course it hurts. 9:00 PM tips are made for TV
12-23-2018 04:11 PM
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